Talk:Seoul Music Awards/Archive 1

Archive 1

Newcomer Award

According to the BEG official channel, the Brown Eyed Girls were the winner of the "2006 서울가요대상 Seoul Music Awards (Best New Artist of The Year)". But the article cites SeeYa as the winner of the 2006 Newcomer Award. Is this a discrepancy, or are the "Best New Artist" and "Newcomer" awards two different things? Deerlike (talk) 23:04, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

In The Official website it writes that seeya and brown eyed girls both won best newcomer award —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.252.56.106 (talk) 12:46, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Dates?

I was just looking over the article and was wondering why there would be in some cases that the 25th event would be in 2016 and in 2015? How is this possible? In the past events section the 25th ceremony took place on 14 January 2016 yet in the awards sections it is listed as 2015 and likewise the dates seem messed up for the later years as well. Unless I am wrong, did a event skip a year and the years was counted wrong? Alicia leo86 (talk) 15:44, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

You're right. The article should clarify whether it is the year covered or the year of the event. For example, the 20th edition took place in 2011, but covers activity from 2010. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 17:49, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

 Fixed Years shown are now from the date of ceremony. This is now consistent with the archived list of winners. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 18:37, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Re: Legend Award

See also: Talk:List of awards and nominations received by BTS § 2021 SMA: awardless nominations

Hi all, please do not include Legend Award inside the article as these are not actual award but rather more of throwback, no actual awards are given virtually nor physically. Unless you have strong reliable source to support their claims otherwise they should not be included. Fyi, these are two RS ([1][2]) I have listed inside 30th Seoul Music Awards and neither mentioned above legend award. — Paper9oll (📣 • 📝) 17:14, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

It's an award, during they show (10-15 minutes before the ending) they made a segment for this award, and they presented it as "Legend Grand Prize" with the name of the winner. There might not physical trophy presented, but it was indeed president by the show itself as an award! And they never did voting on their shows without those categories being considered as award! If it was not an award they wouldn't made voting poll with the rest of categories, and they will not announce it during the award! So it is an award giving by Seoul Music Awards to two artists. I don't know why you pick and choose what's an award and what's not. It was giving by them then it's award that's it. KLIFE88 (talk) 17:48, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

@KLIFE88: Provide me with reliable secondary source from WP:KO/RS#R list then. You have been on Wikipedia since 2013 hence I believe you do know that Wikipedia is not Fancruft and everything have to backed by reliable secondary source. I will leave it there for 3 days thereafter if you can't provide reliable secondary source, I will proceed to remove them. Btw, I believe that you do know that having {{efn}} doesn't means recognition. Lastly, unreliable source from popular sites like Soompi, Allkpop and Koreaboo don't list them inside their reporting as well [3][4][5]. — Paper9oll (📣 • 📝) 01:09, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Did you see the show? During the last 15 minutes it was announced the winners of those two special categories to celebrate the 30th anniversary of the show, the only thing is they said they won't give physical award, but it was still awarded to them as honorary award. The show itself announced it, Korean media didn't report it, but you cannot delete that the show itself announced it during the ceremony! The award as well went in process other categories went through, so how suddenly you don't recognize it when it was announced by them? You can't just delete it as if nothing happened? It's either you addKLIFE88 (talk) 16:54, 3 February 2021 (UTC) it to other awards or at least add new section of "Non-Physical" awards or something like that, because the award itself was given, and millions of fans participated with SMA on it, just for you to say it's frued and not award? KLIFE88 (talk) 16:54, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Instead of talking, how about provide reliable source to support your claim. Furthermore, it doesn't matter whether I watched the show which I did btw if you really want to know. Furthermore, as said previously, you have been on Wikipedia since 2013 hence you should know the rules well. Also, in regards to your "Korean media didn't report it, but you cannot delete that the show itself announced it during the ceremony". Oh is it, because Seoul Music Awards official website [6] (Remember to click it) which can be used as primary reliable source didn't mentioned it inside its winners listing as well. — Paper9oll (📣 • 📝) 17:05, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Comment: I have reworked the footnotes for both Legend categories in the Other Awards section and added reliable supporting references (please also see the notes I left in my edit summary). While I believe they shouldn't be included in the List of awards+noms articles for the individual artists who were nominated/won, I don't see a problem with mentioning them in the most relevant SMA-related article. Though I have made the changes here, perhaps the most appropriate place for these particular two might be the 2021 awards article instead. The information can be moved there if anything. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 03:43, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

@Carlobunnie: Thanks for your edit, however I don't think they are consider awards category to begin with. As per the source, you included inside your edit. It mentioned that "so that you can check who the best grand prize and newcomer ever remained in the hearts of fans across generations". Imo, the award category is more like fancruft rather than actual award, even though they did talk about it during the show like 2020 MAMA Visionary Award, however none of the korean media included that category inside their winners reporting article unlike the 2020 MAMA Visionary Award which there're korean media writing about it. Nevertheless, I believe you know that the nominee for the category are actually past daesang and rookie awards. — Paper9oll (📣 • 📝) 04:09, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Paper9oll idk if you somehow missed the point of what I wrote. I already know you don't consider them real awards and I wasn't saying that I think they are. I clearly specified in each footnote that they're both special one-off poll-determined categories for fan-voted favourite rookie/daesang wins from the show's history. A one-time anniversary event basically but still part of the 2021 ceremony, which is why I also said above that the best place to mention them (if the decision is taken to include them) is probably on the 2021 awards page in a supplementary footnote under the winners+nominees section or another appropriate section.

Removing them caused a bit of conflict as seen from the edit history because some ppl feel they should be included, so my edit was simply a clearly explained+reliably sourced temporary placeholder to (hopefully) maintain the peace until a final decision was made. I should also flat out state that I don't have a particular vested interest in them being included or not. I was just considering the most reasonable, workable solution to the issue. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 05:11, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

@Carlobunnie: Thanks you for your contributions to the temporary placeholder and for giving your view on the discussion topic. I primarily objected to it because of fancruft as user insisted on adding it because her faves "won" the award. And judging from her contributions history (she mainly edited articles if not 90% of the contributions is related to bigbang and ikon) which is why I strongly opposed the inclusion. Furthermore, she can't even provide me a RS or even unreliable source to support her claim. Anyway, sorry for the lengthy rant. — Paper9oll (📣 • 📝) 05:31, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Bonsang table

Why is the bonsang table in alphabetical order? Didn't it use to be arranged so that the same group is the same column? I think the old way is more organized, nicer to look at, than just a wall of names. 111.94.115.175 (talk) 00:55, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

To ensure neutral point of view ordering. This table has been subjected to non-NPOV disruptive editing (read as crazy fan's disruptive editing) in the past. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:29, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Can we present the data in a different way, then? The whole point of making tables is so the data can be grouped in categories/columns. If it's not organized, then creating all those columns is pointless.

How about just making two or three columns (Year, Winners, Ref), and just list the winners in one column, just like the table for most wins? 111.94.115.175 (talk) 15:58, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

You mean like the below example?

Year	Winners	Ref.
20xx	# 1 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N	[1]

Alphanumerical order (symbols first, followed by numbering, then alphabets) still must be retained regardless of the table's design to avoid non-NPOV disruptive editing as stated above. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 07:47, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, exactly like that. I think it will look nicer. I'm fine with the alphabetical order. 111.94.115.191 (talk) 20:37, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:44, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much! It looks great and doesn't take as much space. 111.94.80.221 (talk) 12:15, 17 October 2023 (UTC)