Talk:Siping (rubber)

John Sipe

This origin may well be true, but I think the word sipe has an older dialectal origin in the UK. I'm investigating this, but meanwhile does anyone know about John Sipe?
His name appear on various websites, but if the story is not an urban legend, there will be a patent for siping registered in the 1920s
It is possible, but unlikely, that both origins of the word are correct, but it would be a strange coincidence. dbfirs 10:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Since the word sipe has been common in the English language as a verb for over a thousand years (and as a noun for even longer) (OED), I believe that the John Sipe origin is someone's joke which has spread as an urban myth. I propose to note this fact and this opinion (with NPoV) in the entry. Does anyone disagree? dbfirs 09:28, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I've restored the disclaimer because the various patents seen to have no mention of John F. Sipe. I'm happy to remove it again if anyone can find any (official) reference to him. Dbfirs 10:55, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

(later) Only John F. Bischof and Warren C Sipe seem to be mentioned in the links provided. Their patent had nothing to do with siping.

(and even later) Apologies, I have now got the link to work, and John F. Sipe seems to be genuine. His name seems to have just been a coincidence. Thank you to those who found the patent. Should we have an article on the inventor (or was he just the patenter?) Dbfirs 11:21, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

How it works

The article doesn't say how siping actually improves traction ReelExterminator (talk) 19:41, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Origin of Siping

I recommend reading articles on boat shoes in order to further understand siping As far as I know from experienced resources, siping on shoes was invented by the founder of Sperry. And according to the "Boat Shoe" article, wikipedia currently has conflicting facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JoerSC (talk • contribs) 18:00, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but I suppose that the same technique could have been independently invented for shoes, especially as the patent in the name of "John F Sipe" (was he real?) was not widely applied to tires until after boat shoes were invented. I suspect that the technique has been discovered many times by different people. Was it used on leather, long before rubber tires? Dbfirs 18:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Siping can only be applied to vulcanized rubber. (Otherwise, this would apply to tread on shoes, which have been in existence since the B.C era). I have never heard of John F. Sipe. My next question would be why Sperry, a footwear based company,claims to learn of siping shoes from a dog's paw while John F. Sipe created siped shoes by chance and never made a profit on siped shoes. I find this perplexing. Sorry, I wish I could be of more help.

I agree. There is something that doesn't "ring true" about the story of John F Sipe. I wonder if he was imaginary, and was just created for the patent application, with an invented story being added later, after Sperry invented boat shoes. Dbfirs 19:07, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

If Andy Dingley's book has a genuine story (not just a legend), then John F Sipe had a son Harry E Sipe who developed his father's invention, so his name must be a very unusual coincidence! Dbfirs 21:29, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

I need to expand this a good bit further. Sipe senior invented a process for siping, but he didn't do it for anything closely related to the process as understood today (the problems of early solid tyres are so crude that this just wasn't an issue yet). The invention of deliberate siping (or "knife-cutting", in Europe) as a deliberate measure to improve wet performance appears to be Belgian, from the Engelbert company in 1935. It was picked up shortly afterwards by Michelin, who really popularised it. The first commercial use of siping was a year earlier, where Tecalemit used a knife-cutting process almost identical to Sipe's original patent as a means of recutting worn treads. Europe also abandoned the slow process of literally knife cutting in favour of steel blades in the tread moulds, forming the sipes by moulding. Sipe junior was a long way behind Europe, his contribution was to popularise these water-clearing blades in the USA where they'd so far been ignored.

As to the Sipe senior stories, I don't believe a word (but can't source this). The widely spaced sipes in a solid tyre would have negligible water-clearing effect. It's not the slits that clear the water, it's the thin rubber blades the tread is cut into. Narrow slits are only needed because the blades need to be both narrow, and still supported by adjacent rubber, so a blade moulded with wide gaps wouldn't last. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:12, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Incidentally, it's an excellent book on tyre history. Best I've seen so far. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:16, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Dimensions ?

Could use some clue as to the size of features ! I guess microsiping is siping that is smaller ! I presume it's analogous to fingerprints. --195.137.93.171 (talk) 23:28, 5 January 2012 (UTC)