Talk:Vidago

Hi Hudson, I'm aware you have edited this entry, deleting info about studies in the waters of Vidago, stating there may be more studies to mention. In fact that particular study was actually important at the time, due to its historical context. There was another study undertaken, which is mentioned in the Portuguese version of this page, but I can't see it referenced any where. It was during the rein of King Luís I that the spa became better known, and partly due to the there being scientific studies undergone. King Luís I was a monarch insterested in science who spent some of his personal fortune financing scientific projects and these studies would have made him interested in the Vidago spa. In fact, it was the spa that contributed to the development of the town, so as you can gather, any studies undertaken at the time have a relevant historic importance. Thanks and regards, Sara

Hello Sara. I do not dispute that, but the content you are adding to the article does not really bring more information about the subject. This person, Martiniano Ferreira Botelho, doesn't even have an article of his own, so at this moment we don't even know if he is notable enough for inclusion on Wikipedia, and that naturally affects the mentions we should make on articles related to him. Even his mention in the article on Vila Pouca de Aguiar can be disputed. On Wikipedia, we first create an article on the person. Then, if the community decides that the person is notable for inclusion, then it will be relevant to mention him around. Furthermore, there is little contribution to the article on Vidago even if his thesis were about the spa there. What's the benefits brought by the thesis, what did he discover? That would make it sound relevant. But just saying that this person made a thesis about the spa adds very little to the article; should this person be alive, it would actually look like vanity. Especially given the fact that we have no article about him. I recommend that the article is created first, and then if no one puts it for deletion we may try to make the paragraph look more in line to our usual encyclopedic content. Thank you. Regards, Hús ö nd 22:28, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Hudson, thanks for your reply. I fail to see how you cannot find a page on the named individual, as there are pages of him in wikipedia both in PT and English: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=martiniano+ferreira+botelho+wiki&btnG=Search&meta= as well as several references to his life and work throughout the internet.

On the Vidago PT page there is reference to Dr. Carvalho e Sousa, but as I've said before, I was unable to confirm whether this information was accurate or not. I tried to find information on Dr. Carvalho e Sousa on the Vidago City Hall website and on the Spa pages, but alas, there is none and therefore I felt that unless information is backed up, it should not be posted, although I did not remove it from the PT page, in case someone else can add to it.

As I've said before, both studies had historic relevance at the time, in the sense that from then on there was scientific evidence as to the benefits of the spa, which invariabely led to the then reigning monarch becoming interested in the spa, spending time there and improving transports to the area. I'm not sure whether you know the area, but the whole northwest PT is a very isolated area, and any royal attention bestowed on it, with the benefits that it brought to the whole of Trás-os-Montes was fundamental to the region.

Therefore, I fail to understand how it can be dismissed as a vanity issue. I can offer to amend it in order to add the reasons I've discussed here if it helps and as soon as I have information back from the City Hall about Dr. Carvalho e Sousa, I can further add elements on both PT and English pages.

Thanks and regards, Sara —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.35.201 (talk) 10:49, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

When I mean an article, I don't mean a page on the web, but an article on Wikipedia. Check WP:BIO for criteria, and consider creating an article on this person first. If it passes the notability tests, then we can start making mentions on this person in other articles throughout Wikipedia, although in this case simply saying that he wrote a thesis on the subject doesn't add much to the encyclopedic content. Hús ö nd 19:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Husond, could you please read what I wrote: I fail to see how you cannot find a page on the named individual, as there are pages of him in wikipedia both in PT and English. There are 2 wiki personal articles, one in PT and one in English and if you notice their history, they have both been created quite a long time ago. It seems there is no issue therefore and I expect that you will not edit my entry. Thanks and regards, Sara —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.207.70 (talk) 20:10, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I read what you wrote Sara. Could you please pinpoint his article on Wikipedia (which means, the article about him)? Without verifiable notability, there is no can do. I am an admin on Wikipedia and I know the procedures for inclusion, please try to understand the requirements and stop undoing me otherwise the article will require protection. Thank you. Hús ö nd 21:24, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Hudson, If you'd bothered to look, you would've found it in the google link that I provided: http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martiniano_Ferreira_Botelho Thanks and regards, Sara —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.165.119 (talk) 19:03, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sara, this is not the Portuguese Wikipedia. Different Wikipedias have different policies and guidelines for notability. It is on this Wikipedia that we need to have an article on this person, subject to notability evaluation. At the moment, no such article exists. Hús ö nd 20:48, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Hudson, I was in the process of creating a personal page for Martiniano Ferreira Botelho when I realised two things. First, when doing a search on English wikipedia under that name, a page does come up, albeit under the page of Vila Pouca de Aguiar, therefore that throws off your theory that there isn't a reference under the English wiki. Moreover, I cannot understand how a reference to him and his study can be allowed on one town page (VPA) and not on another (Vidago)? It simply does not make sense, given they're both on the Eng wiki, how can rules be different? Can I please ask that you escalate this to another member as I believe your decision does not add up. Thanks and regards, Sara —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jupitus (talk • contribs) 02:44, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The current page Martiniano Ferreira Botelho is a redirect to Vila Pouca de Aguiar, not an article of its own. You need to edit the redirect and transform it into an article. Hús ö nd 22:53, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And btw you're right, we shouldn't have that section about him in Vila Pouca de Aguiar, as his notability is still yet to be established. I'll leave it for the time being to give you some time to create the article. If the community determines that this person is not notable, then the section "History" in Vila Pouca de Aguiar will have to be removed (and in fact, it shouldn't be named "history", as this person does not make the history of that town all by himself, he should be in a "notable natives" section). Hús ö nd 22:56, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]