User talk:Jayaguru-Shishya

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Los Natas edits[edit]

  • Please see the definition of the word "coined."
  • Please use the correct method of asking for more information. It is not interpolating "such as?" into the text of an article.
  • There's no need to seek consensus on an article's talk page before making edits.

· rodii · 01:23, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi Rodii. I think the right place for discussion is at Los Natas -talk page where the other contributors could follow the discussion as well in order to improve the article. If you find errors though, you can also help to improve the article by correcting those faults instead of removing one's contributions. Thanks! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 17:11, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Appropriate level of wikilinking[edit]

Good message at WT:MOSLINK. I do a lot of maintenance work that includes unlinking common terms and chronological items. But en.WP is ahead of the game in this respect compared with most of the other WPs. May I ask whether you have experience at another WP? And if so, whether you've had any success in convincing other editors to use the wikilinking system more skillfully? I've watchlisted this page if you want to reply here. Tony (talk) 11:51, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for watchlisting this page. MaynardClark (talk) 21:23, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Greetings there Tony1! And thanks for your message, I'm glad to hear that there is someone else concerned with the same problems too.
I agree with you, the English Wikipedia is way ahead it's other language version counterparts. I am currently contributing to the Finnish language Wikipedia aside from the English one, and I must say that I am really giving up hope with it completely... Few practices still vivid and alive at the Finnish Wikipedia:
1) They are linking all the dates (official WP-policy there, e.g. October 5th, 2004)
2) ...linking a lot of common terms
3) ...linking compounded words from the middle even (e.g. toothpick)
=> If your try to remove excess linking - even with well-grounded reasons and participating the discussion at the Talk page - it is likely to just get reverted without any explanations. There is also a very little contributor base in the, and therefore it is pretty much the same group of contributors that keep patrolling on the changes in the articles and backing-up the doings of one an each other.
If there shall be any discussion though, it tends to be taken to your User -talk page, often on a very personal level, and taken away from below the eyes of the other article contributors...
I have also launched a discussion at the fi.WP, one where "I got mistaken to refer" to the English Wikipedia policies. This resulted into fierce responses, according to which Finnish Wikipedia is completely different, and that the English policies have no value at the Finnish side. Well, that's actually true and I do understand it but.... how about benchmarking? Is it bad in general? In Finnihs Wikipedia, it seems it is.
The Finnish Wikipedia has sunken deep with it's current conceptions, and the general mindset with wikilinks still seems to be "the more, the better".
That's pretty much my experiences in my rather small language version. Maybe I should just drift towards Citizendium ( slowly xD ... How about your experiences Tony1? Which language edition you've been working with? Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 19:23, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
You might tell them that overlinking has the same ill effect for all readers—whether of en.WP or fi.WP. The particular language is irrelevant. The war about linking started with the ridiculous date-autoformatting that was introduced into en.WP in 2003 as a ham-fisted solution to editors' fights about US vs non-US formatting. Only logged-in editors who had chosen prefs saw any "benefit". Not readers.

The main battle was won about six years ago: what was surprising was the vehemence of objection, and the fact that within a year or two hardly any editor objected. The whole attitude has turned 180 degrees. It's a symptom of how crude the wikicultures are in other languages that readers don't count. The linking system is washed out and the text looks pretty bad, because no one has stood up to the mind-set of the geek-nuts who are in control. Very happy to have you editing here.

User:Tony1/Most_poorly_wikilinked_article_award, User:Tony1/Survey_of_attitudes_to_DA_removal, User:Tony1/Information_on_the_removal_of_DA, User:Tony1/Build_your_linking_skills. Tony (talk) 11:24, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


WP:OVERLINK states that "Links may be repeated in infoboxes, tables, image captions, footnotes, and at the first occurrence after the lead." I can't really understand why you are neglecting this? Myxomatosis57 (talk) 17:49, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Seems like the edit infobox didn't capture this (was left empty), sorry. Anyway, I undid revision back to version by Rothorpe (talk) =P So I'm in favour of his/her edit... Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 18:08, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
It's allright. I appreciate your concern over the overlinks by the way. Myxomatosis57 (talk) 21:12, 31 March 2014 (UTC)


Hi JS! I'm going to take you up on that offer to address key shortcomings and systematic bias at the chiro article. I had been working on an improved/neutralized version in my sandbox. If follows the MEDMOS style as well (specific sections in specific order). How about you take a look and give me some feedback and we can start to prioritize where we're going to begin. DVMt (talk) 11:32, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi there, DVMt (talk)! Thanks for your proposal, sure I will accept it! I'll take a look at it with a better time! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:24, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

I made a proposal for a new lede at the chiro talk page. Give it a looksee and check out the language, tone, grammar. If that's OK to your eye, I can insert the citations, although I currently forget how to copy and paste the references from my sandbox to the talk page. There is a specific way of doing this, but I need a refresher. DVMt (talk) 23:36, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
I think before any significant changes are made to the article we should go present the case to a noticeboard of some sort (I forget the official name). This was done last year with respect to 'proving' that chiropractic was a health profession. What do you think? DVMt (talk) 21:24, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
JG, time to report QG, have your diffs ready, I'll have mine ready to go to. A topic ban on all alt-med articles, on specifically chiropractic and TCM would be appropriate. Please let me know when this is initiated. Diplomacy has failed, unfortunately. DVMt (talk) 23:10, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
Here was the last report. See Wikipedia:Requests for comment/QuackGuru2.
For a new report you can start at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/QuackGuru3. But please be aware you must provide strong evidence. QuackGuru (talk) 05:50, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
Suspicious attempt to get me topic banned, indef'ed here [1]. The cynics have spoken, but since you've seen me at the chiro page and talk page, I was wondering if you would care to share your experience, if possible. No pressure, and no hard feelings either way. Neuraxis (talk) 16:22, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
Greetings! I left my response at the WP:ANI already. Personally, I don't see any reason for a ban, but I do find name calling inappropiate though (or making such implications). I know it is hard to keep your cool sometimes, and I have to admit that I have lost mine too as well from time to time. I think you still owe an apology for that. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:18, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

3RR report closed[edit]

This is to inform you that an edit-warring noticeboard report in which you were involved has been closed. It is to further notify you that at the next sign of edit-warring on any pseudoscience related articles, including all alternative medicine articles, you will be blocked indefinitely.—Kww(talk) 03:45, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, that warning was miswritten. Consider it to read "The next sign of abusing administrative noticeboards to further pseudoscientific POVs will result in an indefinite block."—Kww(talk) 13:41, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
How come I was misusing the administrative noticeboards? I am not furthering any pseudoscientific POV's Kww, my report was concerning violation of 3RR. There sure were some lengthy discussions at the report that I filed, but I never participated any of those.
I don't think my warning is really fair. There was no POV pushing from my part: you can even notice that I didn't take any part of that POV-related discussion there. Could you please have another look at it? Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 13:58, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
Why did you make a bogus report against me and continue to ignore the evidence against you. QuackGuru (talk) 20:21, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Explain. The diffs show your edit warring at the 3RR report. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:28, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
What evidence? Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:28, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
The evidence shows you falsely accused me of violating the 3RR rule.[2][3] and you made a bogus 3RR report. User:Kww warned you. See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RRArchive245#User:QuackGuru_reported_by_User:Jayaguru-Shishya_.28Result:_DvMT_and_Jayaguru-Shishya_warned.29. See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive841#User:Jayaguru-Shishya_is_not_moving_on_and_he_is_continuing_his_battleground_behaviour. Do you agree you made a mistake? Do you agree you will stop following me to other articles? If you don't agree to stop following me then I think a topic ban for pseudoscience related articles is appropriate. I asked you before to stop following me. See User talk:Jayaguru-Shishya/Archive 1#Please stop following me to other articles and undoing my edits. Your first edit to both articles[4][5] was to revert without explanation. See WP:HOUND. QuackGuru (talk) 20:38, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Enough of that nonsense. So where is the evidence? All you gave me was eight links. So far, you have refused to provide a complete list to support your paranoid allegations, so just cut that crap. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 04:02, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Right now, QuackGuru, you aren't doing yourself any favours. Let it drop. If you can point to an actual instance of edit-warring or similar obstructive behaviour, feel free to bring it to my attention. Constantly posting the same link over and over again with a request for a topic ban hurts your cause.—Kww(talk) 04:32, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

WP:IDHT violation[edit]

I provided evidence that you have no consensus to restore the tag but you ignored it. The evidence is against you on this. QuackGuru (talk) 18:01, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

You provided a link to Talk:Chiropractic#Tag restored against CON again. As I already commented in my diff: "Doc James, McSly and Roxy the Dog were the only ones to comment besides you, DVMt and I at Talk:Chiropractic#Tag restored against CON again. As far as I can see, they made no objections."
You are making more and more allegations against me all the time. See Wikipedia:Harrassment#User space harassment. QuackGuru, are you here to edit collaboratively? Please answer my question. Thanks. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 18:10, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
I also provided more evidence on the talk page there is no consensus for the tag. I don't see consensus for the NPOV tag. QuackGuru (talk) 18:54, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
How did I ignore them? No, I haven't ignored anything. You gave me the link and I already commented on that. The right place to discuss the issue is at Talk: Chiropractic. That's where the consensus is made, not on my Talk Page. So far, where are the objections?
You ignored my question: Are you here to edit collaboratively? You have been proposed collaboration for some times already, but you have never accepted the offer. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 19:05, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest a RfC next time. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 19:10, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
Quack, you really need to stop the harassment and constantly trying to create drama when someone disagrees with your edits. Also, use the chiro talk page so all this can be documented. DVMt (talk) 15:07, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Interested in your POV[edit]

Hey, I made some edits on Acupuncture to help resolve the neutral POV tag, beginning with the introductory paragraph. Despite having very high quality references, I have seen those edits reverted wholesale without any discussion on the talk page. If you ever have the time, I'd be interested in your perspective.Klocek (talk) 17:27, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi and thanks for your message! I already answered you at the article Talk Page! :P Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:14, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

About nature source in TCM[edit]

I check the source from nature which define the TCM as pseudoscience. This source is [6]. Actually this article tries to refute another article which is also from nature [7]. The second one describe some opinion, one of them is to use system biology as a way to assess the usefulness of tcm. I just wonder whether it is good to use one article in nature as the view of nature journal and the primary source while ignore others which are also from nature. Despite article [8] which is also from nature 448 in 2007, I see another article from journal nature [9] which describe the usefulness (for dementia) of TCM. This article was published in 2010 and stated " Sound therapeutic effects promote more scientists, domestic and abroad, to study extracts from herbal medicines. Today, a great number of compounds from herb extracts have proven to be multi-targeted, low toxicity and potent in alleviating dementia." It seems there are many articles which present different idea in nature [10]. I wonder whether to add all of these sources from nature to keep neutrally. I hope someone can check all of these articles from nature journal [11]. Now I think one editorial in nature is a neutral description in this article but whatever, add the website link for the reference is a good way for reader to follow up the source. I don't think there is a standard nature magazine view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:27, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Greetings! I'm a bit busy these days but I promise to check through your sources with a better time! What do you think that would be the biggest contributions of those new sources to the article? Studies on the efficacy of TCM on dementia? Generally, if you have good reliable sources, I can't see any reason why such sources couldn't be used in the article. =P
Hello, I am the user who start this section. Actually my point is just neutrally indicate that“this is one editorial in Nature” like my edition now [12]. Actually, I have edited this [13] when I first start this section in talk page but someone revert my edition. I want to avoid an edition war so I claim in talk page now[14] before I edited it. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:40, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Minor note[edit]

It's not necessary to respond to every turn of the thread like this. Say your piece, and then let others have their say. ~Adjwilley (talk) 20:48, 2 June 2014 (UTC)


Talking this off the article talk page. I repeat - I recommend that you get more solidly grounded and understand that stating the relationship between TCM and science in Wikipedia in a neutral way is not criticism - it is what we do here. I know it is difficult when you are dealing with hard core anti-quack people, but at the end of the day, you are responsible for your own head. Jytdog (talk) 19:55, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply Jytdog, I've been quite busy these days. I agree with you what you said above. However, I was trying to point out that (if I still recall the discussion right) whereas studies with both positive and negative results do exist, we should seek to bring forth both sides. I think you guys had pretty good discussion about it on Herbxue's Talk Page [something like this). Criticism is good and it's ineviable for scientific approach. I hope we no longer have any misunderstanding about that one. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 22:26, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
I appreciate your friendly reply but I feel we are not connecting still. In Wikipedia, since the basis of TCM is qi and other prescientific notions of the body, those notions, and treatments based on them, are pseudoscience and "alternative medicine." If any given specific intervention is tested using the scientific method and found to be effective for some specific disease, then we have an empirical, scientific grounds for saying that the specific treatment is scientific and is medicine, even though it remains without a scientific basis. But the field of TCM as a whole remains pseudoscience and alternative medicine. It is not "criticism" to say this in Wikipedia, it is the foundation from which we start, here in Wikipedia. Article Talk pages are not the place to try to change that foundation. I hope that makes sense... Jytdog (talk) 22:41, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Let's stop feeding the trolls[edit]

It seems that it's only the two of us. I have had enough and won't be responding to this shit any more. He's clearly trolling now. Regards, -- Ohc ¡digame! 01:49, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Refactoring others comments[edit]

It is inappropriate to alter the text of another user's comments in a discussion, as you did in this edit at WP:ANI. If you wish to criticize or comment on another user's wording, you can do so in our own comments; but to place words in another user's comment does not further honest discussion. Actions like this can lead to restrictions on editing privileges. --Nat Gertler (talk) 20:04, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Ooops...! Sorry @NatGertler:. I cited BullRangifer and accidentally modified his original post, not mine. I made the corrections and you can see now how it was meant to be :P My apologies for the hassle! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:18, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
I'm glad to hear that it was an honest error, and thanks for taking care of it! --Nat Gertler (talk) 20:24, 14 June 2014 (UTC)


Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. QuackGuru (talk) 04:00, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

(yawn) He filed one on me and Herbxue too. I wouldn't pay too much (translation: any) attention. It's just something QG feels he has to do sometimes, I guess .... some of us go to the beach to de-stress; QG goes to Wikipedia drama boards. As you can see, the last time he did this with me, the results weren't exactly earth-shattering: here. Happy editing, Middle 8 (leave me alonetalk to meCOI?) 08:10, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

I'd like to know what is your specific explanation for this edit. Why did you think this revert you made (against consensus) improved the article. QuackGuru (talk) 17:41, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Correction: there was no consensus at that point. Anyway that was a week ago, and the issue is now settled. Everyone else has moved on (see bottom of this section; no further mainspace or talkspace edits about this since June 26). --Middle 8 (leave me alonetalk to meCOI?) 01:11, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

July 2014[edit]

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Chiropractic. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

  1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
  2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. - 2/0 (cont.) 21:16, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Please read this comment. There is no consensus to restore the text. QuackGuru (talk) 18:33, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Copied to Talk:Chiropractic#Kshilts' edits 15-18 July 2014

:Why is 2/0 being stamped here? As far as I can see, you left this post, right? If that's what you think, I'd advise you to file a 3RR case right now. Thanks. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 18:40, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

You added sourced material that was undue weight and you added unsourced material too. The following text was unsourced: "The NBCE Part-IV examination is a comprehensive practical exam that assesses case history, orthopedic & neurological testing, clinical diagnosis, radiography & imaging interpretation, manual techniques and case management. The Part-VI exam has generally replaced individual state examinations. Jurisdictions still administer a jurisprudence examination to test a candidate's knowledge of the statutes and regulations that govern chiropractic practice within its particular jurisdiction."[15] You made this comment but the section was too long with the recent additions and most editors disagree with restoring the overly long text.[16][17][18][19][20] QuackGuru (talk) 19:29, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Nope. I didn't add anything. I made a revert since you deleted sourced material per "unsourced material". No mention about undue weight or anything else. This is already discussed in full detail at the article Talk Page. It seems that all your diffs are after I made the revert.
Besides, I don't find the section too long, as I have expressed at the Talk Page
Your ban/block history is quite impressive. I'd advise you to be careful. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:51, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
You thought[21] I left the message on this talk page but it does not really matter who left the message I suppose.
I tagged the original research. The first revert was made under the edit summary "shorten long section and organise text; remove unsourced text)".[22] The OR and undueweight was restored. After the edit was reverted again[23] Jayaguru-Shishya, it seems you restored the disputed text against consensus on July 24, 2014. You claimed: "I didn't add anything" but he did add something. He added OR and disputed text. It seems you ignored the comment that the edit added OR to the article. I explained it in my previous comment on July 23, 2014 the edit added OR and was a violation of WP:SUMMARY. You claimed "So far, sourced material was removed, as stated above."[24] But you did not address the "1) poor quality sources 2) undue weight 3) original research and 4) lack of consensus."[25] Your proposal on the talk page was using primary sources to expand the section. We should use reliable WP:SECONDARY sources. See Talk:Chiropractic#Controversial changes. Cheers. QuackGuru (talk) 23:08, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


Do you know thezensite? An amazing amount of critical studies on Zen. May be useful~for you, given your enthusiasm and developing knwoledge of the history of Zen. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:53, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks mate! I think I just used it as a source in Kapleau and Yasutani articles! =P Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 10:42, 26 July 2014 (UTC)


Hello. I want to remark that you give a fairly idiosyncratic interpretation to this guideline.[26] I have edited tens of thousands of articles featuring foreign languages and come across even more of them. As an active member of WikiProject Etymology, I can asssure you that linking language names at first occurence is common Wikipedia practice. This linking practice includes even French and German which are major languages, let alone Vietnamese which is not. Since edit-warring is not particularly constructive, let us discuss this here. --Omnipaedista (talk) 19:44, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi! Thanks for your message. I am sorry if I was a bit unclear with my explanation. In my opinion, Vietnamese with 75 million native speakers can be considered as rather a "major" language. That's the reason for my edit.
Anyway, it's not a question of life and death for me, so it's okay if you want to include it to the article. Generally though, I don't think languages with such many speakers would fall short of "major's" definition. I hope this helped to clarify! =P Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 09:33, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Usually, only the first ten of the List of languages by number of native speakers are considered major ones. Of course, the cut-off limit is arbitrary. In any case, major or not, language names are commonly linked. I will propose that the documentation of the policy be changed since it does not reflect current common practice. --Omnipaedista (talk) 15:53, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


Please remember to deal with your fellow editors civilly and collegiately. You may wish to revise your statements here and here. - 2/0 (cont.) 17:17, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

The statement directed at me may sound a little awkward, but I don't think it was meant to be incivil -A1candidate (talk) 18:10, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Could you please be more precise? In the first diff you gave me, I told my appreciation towards all the hard work A1candidate has done in order to find those sources. In the second diff, can you please address what is it all about? Here[27], QuackGuru isn't really addressing any explanation for his edits. ~~
(talk page stalker) I'd guess that for the first diff, 2/0 is talking about your comment to Brangifer, which is further down in the diff. Diffs for multiple edits are easy to get misunderstood; happens all the time. regards,--Middle 8 (leave me alonetalk to meCOI?) 15:09, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank You for Your Thanks![edit]

Hello Jayaguru-Shishya: I see you sent me a note thanking me for my recent edit to 'Buddha Nature'. That was kind of you to do so! I appreciate it - and your own fair-minded and constructive editing of, and commenting on, Wiki articles. Best wishes to you. From Suddha (talk) 23:08, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Encyclopedia of Pseudoscience is a reliable source[edit]

  • William F. Williams, ed. (2000). "Acupuncture". Encyclopedia of Pseudoscience: From Alien Abductions to Zone Therapy. Facts on File. pp. 3–4. ISBN 978-1579582074.  This is not a random book. It is an encyclopedia.QuackGuru (talk) 16:10, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
I haven't yet found where to access that book. The name, however, implies that it has something to do with extraterrestrials, is that right? If so, are we using an encyclopedia on extraterrestrials to support claims on medical efficiency? Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 09:35, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
The Encyclopedia of Pseudoscience is not a book about extraterrestrials in general. The encyclopedia covers pseudoscience from Alien abductions to zone therapy. The name does not imply it is a book on extraterrestrials in general. It covers a wide range of pseudoscience topics. Please don't get involved in an edit war or claim the source is not reliable. Did you read the Encyclopedia of Pseudoscience page? QuackGuru (talk) 19:40, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Have I made even one single revert concerning your addition of this book? Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:10, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
You have made a comment on the talk page which concerns me. Do you agree your comment on the talk page was misleading or you made a mistake? QuackGuru (talk) 20:16, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Copied to source? - "From Alien Abductions to Zone Therapy"; to be continued there

You changing your previous comment and questioning weather the book is reliable. You claimed "What about this one: "From Alien Abductions to Zone Therapy", are we using books on extraterrestrials (!) now too?."
I told you the book is not on extraterrestrials in general. See WP:IDHT. QuackGuru (talk) 20:29, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
You are not giving a valid reason for deleting sourced text. For example, you have not shown how the encyclopedia is unreliable. QuackGuru (talk) 21:10, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Copied to source? - "From Alien Abductions to Zone Therapy"; to be continued there

Jaya, Williams isn't a MEDRS but is an RS, and is used as such on WP; please don't confuse the issue with a blanket objection. --Middle 8 (POV-pushingCOI) 02:36, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Why did you delete text from the encyclopedia when you haven't read the book?[28] QuackGuru (talk) 06:16, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Already found. Please participate the discussion at the article Talk Page, there have been given plenty of reasons why the source, Encyclopedia of Pseudoscience: From Alien Abductions to Zone Therapy, doesn't meet MEDRS. For example:

I agree with A1candidate that the content in the diff provided above is difficult to justify supporting with Williams 2013. I agree a more MEDRS compliant source is appropriate for "There is no evidence that inserting needles can affect the course of any disease." I apologize for my contentiousness, it was due to a misunderstanding. - - MrBill3 (talk) 01:32, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

According to Google Scholar, the book has an impressive amount of 14 citations. Wow. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 18:50, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Jayaguru-Shishya, no editor has a serious problem with the current text. Maybe editors can find another article to improve and move on. QuackGuru (talk) 02:08, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
The comment by User:MrBill3 above was posted by Jayaguru-Shishya. QuackGuru (talk) 03:45, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
True. I guess this discussion is already outdated. The text supported by Williams[29] is no longer included in the article. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 11:44, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

White Lotus: wikilink of Maitreya[edit]

Hi Jayaguru,

Why did you revert my link of Maitreya at White Lotus in this revert?
BTW, the link has been restored, together with other changes, in the next edit, by Ogress.
I understand that you are working to fight overlinking on Wikipedia – thanks for this! ;)
However, per WP:UNDERLINK and WP:OVERLINK, “Maitreya” should be linked: this is a “technical term that many readers are unlikely to understand at first sight”.
If you feel that the lead section is too link-heavy – bearing in mind that “In technical articles that use uncommon terms, a higher-than-usual link density in the lead section may be necessary.” – then please try to move the term into later in the article, per WP:LEADLINK.
If you feel that this is in error, and that “Maitreya” should not be linked, could you please explain your reasoning? This seems clear-cut to me, and at least one other editor ostensibly agrees.
—Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 00:19, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
My addition of a link to Maitreya was actually done without any awareness of the revert; I just was copyediting and it stood out as needing a link badly. So... there's that in your corner, nbarth, I independently agree. Ogress smash! 05:20, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi Nbarth! Indeed, I shouldn't have removed the link [[Maitreya]] after all. My apologies for that! The reason why I hastily made it removed was that the term "Buddha Maitreya" used to be linked [[Buddha]] [[Maitreya]] earlier, which I find pretty redundant IMHO. Sorry Nbarth, I got mistaken that you restored that form of linking, even you made it into [[Maitreya]] alone. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 09:02, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
No problem – agree that Buddha Maitreya is excessive. That makes sense, thanks!
—Nils von Barth (nbarth) (talk) 12:15, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Continued tagging of reliable sources[edit]

You are tagging reliable sources.

The source you tagged is 2005 source Cohnrane review.

The Ernst source you tagged is a reliable source.

You tagged another source but there is broad consensus to use the source for the claim[30]. See Talk:Acupuncture#The_source_we_are_working_with_.5B39.5D. Do you think your continued tagging is somehow productive? QuackGuru (talk) 16:52, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, the 2005 review is a Cochrane one, and according to WP:MEDDATE Cochrane reviews are an exception. I got mistaken, thanks for your notice.
The Ernst source, however, is outdated and therefore should not be used. The discussion is taking place at Talk:Acupuncture#Outdated reviews in the article.
Wang, Shu-Ming; Kain, Zeev N.; White, Paul F. (2008) is outdated as well. I didn't find a clear consensus at the Talk Page. So far, it seems you, A1candidate, Middle 8, Doc James and I who have commented there. You and Doc James seem to be in favor of the source (even it's outdater per WP:MEDDATE), and I'd like to hear clarification from Middle 8 and A1candidate. However, consensus is not a vote, and we need an up-to-date source for making medical claims. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 17:27, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
You haven't shown the sources are outdated and I provided evidence that there is consensus to use the 2008 source for the claim. See diffs.[31][32] QuackGuru (talk) 17:38, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
The review is from 2008 February, so it is outdated per WP:MEDDATE. The diff where you falsely claim to have "provided evidence that there is consensus" is directing back to this very same discussion we are having here right now. Therefore, you falsely claimed to have provided evidence even you have not. The last two diffs, see my answer above. I'd advise you - once again - to participate the discussion at the article Talk Page. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 18:16, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Please don't move my comment to another section. QuackGuru (talk) 19:56, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Minor refactor thing[edit]

Hi J-S, just a small friendly reminder to be careful to put your comments at the end of others' comments rather than someplace in the middle of them (e.g. [33] [34]). I know my posts can be pretty long-winded (and can include bullet points and stuff) so it's not always readily apparent. :-) Hey, generally, really appreciate your patience on that page.... it can be trying. all best regards. --Middle 8 (contribsCOI) 22:31, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Oh, thanks for your notice! Honestly, I have no idea what my comments were doing there in the middle of of your comments :O Sorry about that! Gotta be more careful in the future! :-) Thanks! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 17:27, 16 September 2014 (UTC)


Thank you for engaging collaboratively and constructively. Presenting well reasoned and clear arguments and being open and engaged in discussion is essential in building consensus. While things may not always work out in the way you might think best, I can assure you that collegial engagement raises the level respect accorded your input (both in a specific instance and in general). I know editing can be frustrating at times and dealing with some editors strains one's patience. I hope you find the work towards consensus satisfying. I'd also say that consensus is not majority rule and when you have presented policy based rationale for your position and responded similarly to others and it seems that "local consensus" is dominated by numbers if you bring the issue to another forum (form or level of dispute resolution) your position will receive appropriate attention (and you can save some time re-arguing by using diffs). I think WP benefits from editors with a variety of opinions and your input is of value, though I may disagree with you at times, I think your positions deserve consideration. Best wishes and happy editing. - - MrBill3 (talk) 07:47, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind message MrBill3, and sorry for the late response. I truly appreciate your message, and I look forward editing the same articles with you even though they are very few at the moment. :) Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 17:30, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

OC's script[edit]

Hi, I use his triple one-touch button on his script, which harmonises dates (got to know the rules for that, though), fixes dashes, and unlinks lots of common terms. Needs a bit of human checking, but it usually generates a few echo-thanks when I do a session with it. You could use part or all of this functionality. Tony (talk) 12:47, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your advice Tony! Do you have a link for this one possibly? :P -BR, Script-Newbie Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 17:32, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Reverting changed to WB Encyclopedia article[edit]

I'd like to ask why you continue to revert my edits on the World Book Encyclopedia page. I am adding facts backed up and linked by reputable sources that I have cited, as is the policy. This article is incredibly outdated and unfactual in many places and I'm just trying to add to it in order to paint a clear picture. Why are you trying to hide the truth to maintain this article in a sad state?

In other words, what's your problem?

Lurelearning (talk) 16:05, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi Lurelearning. I think the problem is that you are using the company's own website as the main source in the article. What we need are reliable independent sources instead. For example, "" is hardly a reliable source. Also text like "'Well-known for it’s iconic encyclopedia...", or "World Book also publishes series nonfiction for the K-12 market, covering history, science, geography, and other curricular basics." and then backed up by the company website, it sounds more like a commercial announcement rather than an encyclopedic piece of text.
Taking a closer look on the sources, the company's own website is used quite largely even aside from your edits. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it'd be your edits alone; there is a larger problem with the article in general. Also many of the links are already dead. Let's do this: I'll ask for a second opinion on the article, and let's see what we can do after, okay? Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 17:42, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Hmm, does the latter quote happen to be taken from this thread on the article Talk Page, posted by a World Book Inc. employee? And does World Book Encyclopedia happen to be the only article you have been editing in Wikipedia ever so far? Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 18:01, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
@Lurelearning:Sorry for asking this straight, but are you possibly AEMSWB? =P Don't worry, I'd like warmly welcome all the newcomers to Wikipedia, as well as assume good faith :-) Anyway, this is the thing: being an employee of World Book Encyclopedia does not automatically prevent you from editing the article. Declaring your possible conflict of interest (WP:COI) (like already done at AEMSWB's account) is essential, and for sources we should use independent third-party sources; unfortunately any material published by the company itself is not considered valid. I'd advise you also to stick to only one account: using multiple accounts can be considered as "sock puppeting" (WP:SPI) which will result to your accounts being banned.
If you have questions about using reliable sources, I'd be happy to answer according to my best knowledge. If I were you, I would also consider throwing a message at user Cullen328's Talk Page, he's a real expert on these things. If you are not AEMSWB, please ignore this message. ;) Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 21:06, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Hello and thank you for your reply. I now understand that it's against policy to cite from a company's own website. I apologize as I was not aware of that before. I guess what I don't understand is that after my edits were reverted, I tried to add back some of my information WITH independent third-party sources like when I cited from Publisher's Weekly and and other websites that were not part of World Book. When those facts were taken down because for the reason that I was "over-citing," I became really frustrated. I have a lot of great information to add to this article that I could back up with sources and it just seemed like anything I added was being taken down. I read up on how to edit an article with a conflict of interest and tried to follow policy, and I posted some suggested edits on the article's talk page, but there was zero activity and no responses to my posts. I have good content to add to this article to be reflective of the company today, and a list of independent third-party sources to verify this content, but if I can't seem to get this approved. Can you please help me? Lurelearning (talk) 20:16, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 1[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Cao Đài, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Monad, Yang and Yin. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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sfn and websources[edit]

Check this out: a reflist for websources! A neat list of websources, in a separate list, instead of somewhere in the text. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:55, 3 October 2014 (UTC)



  • please do not delete citations like that; I also don't agree that the previously-disorganised format is better.
  • ngak'phang is associated only with a sketchy Welsh group called "the Aró", who are white people claiming to have all kinds of ordinations. It's not a well-formed Tibetan word.

Thanks, Ogress smash! 00:26, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, what cited material/citations are you talking about? I took another look to the edits and I couldn't find any cited material removed. Actually, the first paragraph in the lede remains totally unsourced at the moment.
I don't know about "ngak'phang", but in my humble opinion, the old version had a clearer section for etymology. Well, it's not a question of life and death for me, but perhaps some other editor can take a look at it? If the current one is pleasing enough, it's totally alright. @Omnipaedista:, would you want to take a look? I know you are an expert with the etymology things =P
Oh, I tried to find a source for the tagged paragraph but with no success. I guess it can go. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 10:39, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Electronic Cigarette RFC[edit]

Since you have edited the article reciently you may want to comment on the current request for comment on the talk page. AlbinoFerret (talk) 14:22, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks I left my reply on the Talk Page. I agree with your position: for example, if you take a look at cigarette, you'll notice it's not per MEDRS either. I would find it very odd if electronic cigarette would be. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 17:07, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Dorje Pakmo[edit]

The Dorje Pakmo article is troubling for a number of reasons, half of which are NPOV and half of which are that the article confuses the crucial Vajrayana meditational deity with the officially-PRC-sanctioned reincarnation known by the same name. Vajravārāhī is a form of Vajrayoginī, who is the most important deity in Tibetan Buddhism, hands-down, and appears in the Vajravārāhī form a significant portion of the time.

I removed the Chinese "spelling" because it was simply the Tibetan syllables in Chinese characters pseudo-phonetically. The Tangmi name for her must exist but I doubt very much it is "Duōjié Pàmó" spelled so that it reads "ugly woman with too many remarkable handkerchiefs". It would be a native name. Ogress smash! 20:18, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Ooooh, thanks for your clarification Ogress! I had no idea that it's a pseudo-phonetic spelling of the Tibetan one :O I self-reverted my edit. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 21:05, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Edits to Mandaeanism[edit]


I don't know about others' responses to edits, but I think that removing what call 'overlinks' is way beyond what ought to be done on this article. I personally believe STRONGLY that these edits ought to be reverted because they REDUCE the utility or usefulness of this article to a newbie reader. MaynardClark (talk) 21:16, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

I think that the edits, without exception, make the newer Jayaguru-Shishya-version article less useful, interesting, and of notable quality than was the previous article before Jayaguru-Shishya's edits. MaynardClark (talk) 21:22, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello there! I am sorry if you feel that way. Do you have any specific edit(s) / part of edit(s) in your mind? Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 21:53, 11 November 2014 (UTC)


You were correct here[35] if you had also looked at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine/Archive_54#MEDRS_verification. I have mentioned you on ANI, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Ayurveda Bladesmulti (talk) 02:34, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your message! I'll try to find some time to have look at the ANI report tonight!. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 13:00, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Ban and Block[edit]

No one got banned from the article, but only blocked because of particular changes. Change banned to blocked. Bladesmulti (talk) 12:42, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh, thanks for your notification! Wrong term indeed! Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 12:44, 18 November 2014 (UTC)


I appreciate your attempts to remove excess wikilinks, but I think every single wikilink you removed from Vajravārāhī was in fact important and/or you did not understand what I was linking. Also, I gave a specific cite for a description of Vajravārāhī with a page number and yet you asked for the actual quote? I provided it, but it seems overkill. It's easily accessible on google books if you weren't sure I was telling the truth. Ogress smash! 22:42, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi @Ogress:! Thanks for your message. I'm sorry, I got mistaken with removing this "[[Sakya]] lama Rikey Jatrel". I've recently seen lots of linking like "[[Dalai Lama]] [[Tenzin Gyatso]]", and I hastily thought it was a similar linking. Of course, you are right, "Sakya" is one of the four major schools of Tibetan Buddhism, so naturally what I just described is not the case. Sorry for that!
About the two other linkings, I am sorry I was unclear why I removed "wrathful form" and "iṣṭadevatā". When it comes to the first one, I think "wrathful form" isn't really that useful since the article doesn't even mention Vajravārāhī, i.e. it doesn't provide any information about the subject. The second one, the text talks about " of the main iṣṭadevatā practices...", whereas the article "Iṣṭadevatā" doesn't even speak about such practices, especially the "...practices of Vajravārāhī..." as mentioned in the Vajravārāhī article. I hope this helped to clarify my reasons a bit. =P
Oh, I didn't mean to question your integrity with respect to that Google books source! I am sorry if I gave you that impression. Actually, I've seen your hard work at the Buddhism-related articles, and I appreciate it really much. You see, I've just recently discovered that {{request quotation}} tag, and I used that since I couldn't find any Google books source that would be available for preview / the very page would be available. As far as I understand, the viewing rights vary depending from the country, and at least I couldn't preview the source (from Finland). That's the reason why I asked a quotation (for footnotes or something), no mistrust here involved. :-) Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 13:02, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Linking post-nominals[edit]

Please join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Linking#Post-nominals. What was it about the change that you objected to? StAnselm (talk) 20:59, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

I have gone ahead and removed the words again. If you don't want to discuss the issue, please don't revert. StAnselm (talk) 04:32, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Greetings. I think it would be highly advisable to gain consensus for the WP policy changes through discussion first before making changes to the prevailing consensus. After all, we are speaking about policies that effect every single article on Wikipedia. I'll reply to your post at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Linking#Post-nominals at better time. Cheers!
Thanks for the reply. Of course, the page in question is a guideline rather than a policy. But my argument is based on the idea that the prevailing consensus is to wikilink postnominals. StAnselm (talk) 12:23, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Has this discussion finished? It really looks to me like the consensus is to exclude, but obviously I am an involved party. — Preceding unsigned comment added by StAnselm (talkcontribs) 06:33, 11 February 2015

Hi StAnselm. I just read through Post-nominals and RfC: linking pre- and post nominals. It seems that five editors are in favour of exclude, and 3 editors in favour of include. In my humble opinion, that doesn't yet make a consensus, especially when the current consensus have been around ever since November 2012. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 17:30, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Linking an investigation on QuackGuru for SPA[edit]


Thanks for the thanks Face-smile.svg Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:08, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

User talk:John[edit]

Replying to a user in 5 different places simultaneously is not helpful. In fact, all this discussion and complaining about other editors isn't terribly helpful either, at least in the current context. Please try to focus more on editing and compromise and less on other users. ~Adjwilley (talk) 21:47, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I am sorry, what is not exactly helpful? I remember you leaving a post similar to this earlier. When one cannot participate the discussion - no matter how fierce it seems - every day, it is the most natural thing to catch up with the conversation, don't you think?
I don't think you are saying that there'd be some kinda time-limit to message the on-going discussions? Am I right? Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 22:55, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

You removed my comment![edit]

I don't know what you were thinking when you removed my talk page comment. Don't ever do that again. If you have an opinion, write it on the talk page so we all can learn and discuss. -- Brangifer (talk) 03:51, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi Brangifer. I am not sure if you saw my edit summary, but it went as follows:

Spam: Isn't this a news paper that first interviews you, and then asks you to pay for publishing the story? :-)

Anyway, I'll give it to the consideration of others. Personally, I don't have that much good to say about that news paper, and I don't think we should be promoting them in Wikipedia. I inserted my ES to the comment section now. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 11:45, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I replied there. -- Brangifer (talk) 15:52, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Happy Xmas![edit]

Hotei, god of happiness at Jōchi-ji temple.
Happy Xmas! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:49, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Have I got news for you:

"In the West, the image of Budai is often mistaken for Gautama Buddha[6], or Santa Claus."

Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:55, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year[edit]

Jayauru-Shishya, Happy New Year to you too! Gzuufy (talk) 18:59, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Gzuufy! I appreciate that! :-) Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 00:16, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year![edit]

Happy New Year Jayaguru-Shishya![edit]

LesVegas (talk) 22:42, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Please have the best year 2015 as well! :-) Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 23:42, 3 January 2015 (UTC)


@Jayaguru-Shishya: Hello. Here you requested a quotation to verify. I'm just trying to understand, did you mean to add this elsewhere? Do you really want a quotation to verify that Qafeh is the author of his linked book? And that he spearheaded the Dor Deah movement? Thanks, Contributor613 (talk) 03:38, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Hello there, User:Contributor613! I mean something like here: [36]. Since the source is in Hebrew, perhaps you can provide the Hebrew quote with a translation? =P As far as I know, users' own translations are okay too if no other are available :-) Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 16:19, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
I thought it was strange for you to request a quote but now the source of the misunderstanding is clear: The footnote isn't merely a link talking about his book. It contains his book! I'll make that clear in the footnote, as you're right that those not familiar with Hebrew won't necessarily realize this. Thanks for clarifying. Contributor613 (talk) 18:56, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
No problem. Thanks! :-) Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 19:01, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! I was really wondering how someone could request a quotation of a linked book for verification(?!) and you showed me the simple reason: Being a Hebrew text, you wouldn't know it's his linked book without a note in English to that effect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Contributor613 (talkcontribs) 19:12, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Arbcom[edit] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kww (talkcontribs)


Article' talkpages are not right place for discussion about COI, it can be either a Wikipedia:COIN board or the user talk(page). I am only saying because COI on article' talk pages leads to a lot of unproductive discussion. Bladesmulti (talk) 18:03, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your quick notification, Bladesmulti! I made a rapid self-revert on the article Talk Page. Anyway, do you think there is a need for such? =P Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 18:08, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
I had altered your comment a bit[37] don't you think that a diff was enough to describe rather than inserting his removed comment over there. My change was reverted by other user, though I have altered your changes before too. Bladesmulti (talk) 06:03, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
It's okay Bladesmulti. I think a diff is equally good, although many times I prefer straight quotes myself. This is because some users tend to add so many diffs that it's really hard to get a clear picture of what's going on even.
I think your edit was reasonable though. I know that he removed his comment, and I brought that up in my post. What I was meant to demonstrate, was his use of language that has been a matter of concern many times before. Well, it's already been read by the recipient, so I think you might have made the case here. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 23:34, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Robert Sharf[edit]

Hi. Did I ever mention these publications to you?

Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:05, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Greetings Joshua, and thanks for providing those publications! I appreciate that :-) At the moment, I have familiarized myself only with Zen and the Way of the New Religions. I think I have used it as a source in a couple of Sanbokyodan-related articles.
The subject of Zen Buddhism is always so interesting, isn't it? I just feel sorry for the fact that the very founder of Sanbokyodan sect, Hakuun Yasutani, got be known as an anti-Semite. I am trying to follow up the fierce conversation at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case and RfC: Is the Nature article an appropriate source for the claim it is attached to?, both of which discuss whether acupuncture / traditional Chinese medicine is pseudoscience or not. I guess there was a similar stub of conversation earlier at your Talk Page when the same question concerning Ayurveda popped up. Anyway, I'll start studying those publications right after this snafu has passed by. :/ Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 13:18, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Cao Đài[edit]

I've restored my edit to Cao Đài, which is based on the version from 03:33, 30 September 2014‎, because the translation that you provided is incorrect. The traditional Chinese characters do not match the simplified Chinese characters because the traditional characters are actually the name of Cao Đài in (Sino-)Vietnamese, not Chinese. Chinese uses both different characters ("教" instead of "道") and has a different word order ("高臺道/高臺教" rather than "道高臺/教高臺"). The "simplified" characters are Cao Đài in Chinese. In any event, it's not really correct to say that "台" is the simplified form of "臺"; it's merely an alternate form, and it's actually more commonly used than "臺" even in places that use traditional Chinese like Taiwan. Most importantly, given that Cao Đài is a Vietnamese religion, there's no reason to provide a Chinese translation in the first place. That's why I've marked "道高臺" as Chữ nôm. Talu42 (talk) 06:21, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Greetings Talu42! I am glad you noticed those errors. Actually, I don't know Chinese myself, so I am glad we have an editor who has better knowledge on these things :3 Sorry, when I reverted your edit, I didn't know those were flawed. See, at many articles, related to Tibetan Buddhism for example, the Chinese characters get deleted by some users just because "it's not Chinese Buddhism".
Anyway, I think you just made the point. :-) Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 12:50, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Acupuncture case request closed by motion[edit]

The Arbitration Committee has closed a case request by motion with the following remedy being enacted:

In lieu of a full case, the Arbitration Committee authorises standard discretionary sanctions for any edit about, and for all pages relating to Complementary and Alternative Medicine. Any sanctions that may be imposed should be logged at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Acupuncture. The Committee urges interested editors to pursue alternative means of dispute resolution such as RFC's or requests for mediation on the underlying issues. If necessary, further requests concerning this matter should be filed at the requests for clarification and amendment page.

For the Arbitration Committee, Callanecc (talkcontribslogs) 11:18, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Excellent! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 19:48, 16 January 2015 (UTC)


Hi! The original source is German; I've got the Dutch translation. I'll provide a quote, of course (but not right now right away at this moment!) Cheers, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 16:06, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Ach so, ich kann auch ein bisschen Deutsch sprechen. Vielleicht kann ich dieses Buch online suchen x] Well, don't worry, there's no hurry! :-) I first noticed that the source in the lede (Schreiber 2008) isn't included in the sources section, so I was wondering if another source dealing with similar context would help. But then, I noticed it's in Dutch :-) Well, as they say: "The limits of my language mean the limits of my world." Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 16:30, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Please don't alter my post[edit]

See diff. QuackGuru (talk) 22:40, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Greetings! Funny coincident. I just left a post at your Talk Page about the same thing. See, you shouldn't alter your original post after it's been replied to. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 22:46, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
You think editors are not allowed to hat a comment? QuackGuru (talk) 22:48, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh, deleted my comment[38] at your Talk Page. Feel uncomfortable with something? Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 22:55, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Reinstated section on Dor Daim in Kabbalah[edit]

Hello. I re-added this edit, and wanted to let you know my thinking. Even though I don't agree with the reference to the reductionist philosophy you omitted, it is important to portray the complete picture of Kabbalah's history in modern times.

The reference exists, and here it is in the Stanford library:, although the citation style may need editing in the Wiki article. If you go to Wikipedia's "Dor Daim" article, you will see numerous supporting references that could be added to this section as well.

Hebrew language: The majority of legitimate Kabbalah is still sitting on shelves or scanned in e-libraries in Hebrew or Aramaic, untranslated, so there will be a bias to non-English sources. The reference as written, however, was translated into English. The block script is so different from English it is difficult to read even when it is translated. The reason most Kabbalistic works remain untranslated is that the study of Kabbalah has been discredited by these ultra-rationalists. Serious Kabbalah study only resumed recently.

It is ironic that the sages who the Yemini Rabbi alleges to be rationalists were also great Kabbalists. There is a great secret story behind that. Ayeletshacar (talk) 04:07, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Greetings Ayeletshacar! Thanks for your message and explaining your thought, I appreciate that. Have you seen the discussion at Talk:Kabbalah#{{request quotation}}? The issues with the source given have been discussed there. Anyway, I'll try to explain things in a nutshell.
For example, I know that the majority of the sources available on the subject are in Hebrew, and there is nothing wrong with using non-English sources in Wikipedia. According to WP:NONENG, however, one may request "a quotation of relevant portions of the original source be provided". The quote is to be accompanied by a translation. This may be by a published reliable source, by a Wikipedian, or a machine translation.
I first added the {{Request quotation}} template here: [39]. Later, the following quotation was provided: שהקים את תנועת... דור דעה[40]. Now, if you consider what WP:NONENG mentions above, it's still missing an English translation that "should always accompany the quote." I don't know any Hebrew myself, so as my last option I tried a couple of machine translations. Neither of the translations were nothing alike what the text says. Therefore, I removed the text. IMHO, a translation by someone who knows Hebrew is essential.
Hmm, you mentioned the "Dor Daim" article. Do you have any specific sources from there that we could use in Kabbala? That would easen things a lot. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 16:48, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Reinstated link to Lumia Denim on Lumia 1020 article[edit]

Hi there. I reverted your recent change on the Lumia 1020 article as at this time, the only location on Wikipedia for details about what the Denim update is is on the Microsoft Lumia page. Because of that, it's important that we maintain that link until such a time as a more full-fledged article appears on Lumia firmware updates. Please do not remove or replace the link until there's a better on-wiki page detailing the Denim update. Thanks. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 19:29, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Greetings. I agree with you coldacid, an article for "Lumia Denim" would be totally justified. If we want to have a more full-fledged article on Lumia Denim, however, I think we should have a red link instead. Having a link that actually doesn't even discuss the issue would give a wrong implication that such an article would already exist. So far, the whole section doesn't even mention "Lumia Denim". Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 19:41, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
There's no discussion, but there are details provided in the history table presented on the article, which is almost immediately under the heading that's linked to in the 1020 article. Perhaps a dedicated anchor point should be set up there to link to instead, but I doubt that any individual firmware update for a particular range of phones would warrant its own article. For now, at least, the best is just pointing readers to that table. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 19:49, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
It appears that Namlong618 had already created a Lumia Denim page redirecting to the same table; I've set anchors for each update on Microsoft Lumia and have updated the redirect page to point directly to the table row for Denim. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 19:56, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Okay, so what part of the text do you exactly wanna link to? Perhaps the very first item at Microsoft Lumia#History of Lumia updates? The current text at Lumia 1020 says the following (emphasis added):

The Lumia 1020 will receive the Lumia Denim software update, but without new features or updates to the system firmware, due to the phone's age

I can't really see how Microsoft Lumia#History of Lumia updates does support this? And even if it does, we should refer to a third party source, not to another Wikipedia article. But that's what we have done already, right? We have already two sources for this piece of text, so where do we need a wikilink that doesn't even discuss the topic? Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:04, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
I think we might actually be thinking about different things at this point? The text as it was is fine; it's just that the Denim link should point to existing content on Wikipedia for the update, which it does. Lumia Denim redirects directly to the row in the versions table that details the update, thanks to me adding {{Anchor}} for each update in the table, and it can be converted into a full page if there's ever enough content or if anyone's brave enough to try one with what details we know now. There's nothing more that needs doing, unless you feel like writing up a full article on the update. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 20:09, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Indeed, we were thinking about different things. It also seems there was more or less edit conflict involved, which prevented us from seeing each others' posts in real time. Anyway, good job with the anchors! Now the linking appears to be smooth and nice. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:29, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Relax duplicate linking rule (again!)[edit]

You might be interested to see that I'm reopening the issue of duplicate links at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Linking#Relax_duplicate_linking_rule. --Slashme (talk) 21:40, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Cao Đài[edit]

I hope you don´t mind my revert. I wanted to save the refs. Cheers JimRenge (talk) 09:57, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Greetings JimRenge! Actually, I created a ==Further reading== where I replaced the sources in right format, but it got reverted by user JanetAlisonHoskins[41]. I removed the sources eventually as they were not used in the text at all, but were still included to ==References==.
If you have access to the sources though, and they are used properly, I'll trust your judgement. However, it seems that Eller (2007) is currently used both as a source in the article, as well as enlisted to ==Further reading==. I suppose that it should be in the latter instead of the former?
It also seems user JanetAlisonHoskins re-added Hoskins (2015) to ==Further reading==, even though it's already used in the article. I took the liberty to remove it together with Eller (2007). Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 19:43, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Wait a minute... user JanetAlisonHoskins is repeatedly adding sources by Janet Alison Hoskins...? If the two persons are the same, she should definitely declare her COI. If they aren't, well I have ran into some cases where the users are told to change their username. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 19:48, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
I do not have access to the print sources, but I assume good faith that the editor is an WP:EXPERT.
WP:COI, WP:SELFCITING states: "Using material you have written or published is allowed within reason, but only if it (...) conforms to the content policies (...), is not excessive," and does "not place undue emphasis on your work. When in doubt, defer to the community's opinion." JimRenge (talk) 19:58, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
In that case, I think some further clarification is needed in a form of {{Request quotation}} for example. I find that the user is spamming the same source on different sections, and that something that really catches my interest. Especially when there's a possibility that one might try promote his/her own works in Wikipedia.
I do assume good faith also, JimRenge. But I think declaration of COI would be a just thing to do towards everybody, and naturally it doesn't prevent one from editing. The peculiar behavior of user JanetAlisonHoskins leaves a lot to hope for, though. She reverted my edits where I placed the sources where they belong, the Further reading section, and has kept spamming the sources to different sections ever since. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:08, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
I think we shouldn´t bite the expert newbies - see:WP:EXR. I have sent her the WP:COI, WP:SELFCITING text and assume a declaration of COI is not needed now. I guess she will be more cautious after being informed about COI etc.
Thank you for removing duplicate citations. I would have preferred the inline-citation and removal of the 2015 cite in "sources" and "further reading". JimRenge (talk) 20:35, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, I appreciate that. I restored the 2015 source to the body and removed it from Further reading. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:59, 3 March 2015 (UTC)


So you've logged back in since yesterday, and are not responding to the ping, so I will take your silence as consent, and will close the RSN, and reinstate the content in a bit. Jytdog (talk) 23:36, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


Hey Jayaguru-Shishya,

I noticed that you reversed my link edit on the Buer article. Any reason for this? Moral philosophy is another term for ethics, since moral philosophy falls under the branch of ethics. I don't see why ethics should therefore not be linked there. If I don't receive a response from you, I'll just assume it isn't a big issue and will revert the article back to the change I made, since I think it is correct. I do agree with the unnecessary capitalization, though, and support that change.


Nøkkenbuer (talk) 05:56, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

@Nøkkenbuer:, so why not linked to "ethics" instead? Or what does the source say? I find the piece of text quite problematic since it's not really backed up by any source. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 19:15, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
@Jayaguru-Shishya: Apparently, it's from a 1995 Mathers edition of Dictionnaire Infernal, as is stated in the image here. I tried looking for a source, or a copy of it online, but I cannot find it. Should a [citation needed] be placed on both of these? Any recommendations? I retained "moral" here because of its use in that image and elsewhere throughout the Internet. Buer is always stated to teach "moral philosophy" or "moral and natural philosophy", not ethics (excepting once or twice on someone's blog). Also, we may want to revert the original capitalization, since it appears to be what's used in that image and elsewhere on Wikipedia. –Nøkkenbuer (talkcontribs) 19:30, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your quick answer. Should we choose "moral philosophy" or "ethics", I think we should stick to the peculiar term that the source says. Other Wikipedia articles, however, aren't a valid source to be referred to.
Thanks for the source as well. I haven't been able to edit Wikipedia for one week, but I can try to make some time to see if the source is available through university portals. Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 19:39, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Oh I understand that Wikipedia isn't a valid referential source, but I pointed them out to show that some consistency is ideally needed among all these articles. I assume the term "moral philosophy", along with the capitalizations, was used in the source, but I can't confirm this. If you can, or show that it is not, it would be greatly appreciated. Should the other instances have their capitalization changed as well?
Feel free to let me know your thoughts whenever. It's no rush, especially since this is such a relatively minor issue. Have a great rest of the day/night! –Nøkkenbuer (talkcontribs) 20:15, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
@Nøkkenbuer: Oh boy, I couldn't access that Mathers' edition of book through university portals... =F But if that's the source, sure we can add it to the article and add a {{Request quotation}} tag, or what do you think? That way some editor with access to the source could provide a quotation from the book in time. Well, there's no deadline (WP:NORUSH) :-)
About the capitalizations in general, I am not actually an expert but I think MOS:CAPS has a word or two to say about the subject. By taking a quick glance, Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters#Religions, deities, philosophies, doctrines and their adherents seems to be saying things, such as:

Unofficial movements, ideologies or philosophies within religions are generally not capitalized [...] Philosophies, theories, movements, doctrines, and systems of thought do not begin with a capital letter

Hope this helps! :-) Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 18:35, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


I don´t know an ideal solution, but [1] might work. JimRenge (talk) 17:36, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

@JimRenge: Woaaa....! You answered even before I managed to post on your Talk Page! :-D Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 17:40, 30 March 2015 (UTC)