Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Dream Days at the Hotel Existence/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 01:32, 14 October 2007.

Dream Days at the Hotel Existence[edit]

This was collaborated on multiple times by WikiProject Powderfinger, and I believe it now meets the FA criteria. Passed GA here. Suggestions welcome, changes will be implemented. — Dihydrogen Monoxide (H2O) 02:15, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support as GA contributor. This page was scrutinised to achieve GA, however has undergone a great deal of improvement since and I believe it now exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. --lincalinca 02:54, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Writing
    I think that abbreviations like "TV" should be avoided as we shouldn't assume them to be understood worldwide.
     Done (TV anyway, I'll check other abbrevs) Dihydrogen Monoxide (H2O) 03:12, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Issues with being "well written" with a some oddly constructed sentences. Needs a copyedit to tighten the text and rewrite the convoluted sentences eg:
  • "announced that the album would be titled Dream Days at the Hotel Existence, and would be produced by Rob Schnapf (producer for Beck, amongst others)" --> "announced the album's title as Dream Days at the Hotel Existance with production by Rob Schnapf, known for his work with Beck and The Vines."
  • "The album was not recorded in Australia at Melbourne's Sing Sing studios, where Powderfinger's previous albums had been recorded." --> "Unlike Powderfinger's previous albums Melbourne's Sing Sing studios were not used for recording."
  • "On 12 June 2007 Powderfinger announced that their nationwide tour would be entitled the Across the Great Divide Tour and would be a co-headline tour with fellow Australian rock group Silverchair, who also had recently reformed after a three year hiatus. " --> "Powderfinger announced the Across the Great Divide nationwide tour on 12 June 2007 with co-headline Australian rock group Silverchair, also reformed after a three year hiatus. "
  • The "Touring" section appears to have confused tenses. Need a review of the way this reads.
  • Comprehensive/factual
  • There is no note as to what the change for "Black Tears" was for the album release.
  • That's because none has been made public. I'll try to dig up what the specific actual changes were, but as far as I'm aware, because the court case is even now still continuing, I don't believe there's a chance the specifics will be areigned even now. --lincalinca 10:26, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not sure that's correct. The SMH (13/06/2007, p.3) says that it dealt with "death of a Palm Island man, Mulrunji Doomadgee." and MX (21/06/2007) says that this section was changed to "an island watch-house bed, a black man's lying dead". Perhaps the review - Rolling Stone Australia; Jul2007 Issue 667, p96-96 - may help.
  • According to the Sunday Times(Perth); 03/06/2007, "The band opted to remove the lyrics relating to Mr Doomadgee. The band members said they hoped to release the original version of the song in the future. Lead singer Bernard Fanning said he was not angry about having to change his lyrics, but lamented the lack of Australian musicians willing to challenge the status quo."Peripitus (Talk) 11:22, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the lead the comment that the article received "critical acclaim" is inconsistant with the description later in the sentence of "consistent" and "distinctly Australian", which are hardly acclimations. This assertion is also not supported later in the text so the lead is not summarising the article. Later on the album is noted as a "dull album" which is far short of acclaim.
  • For an Australian reviewer to call an album "distinctly Australian" is considered a compliment, or a citation of acclaim. Perhaps for one whose understanding of Australian music is not great it may not be, but being an album reviewermyself, and reading almost every album review I can get my hands on, I use this, and believe it to be consistent, that this is an affectionate comment. As to "consistent", consistency is desired as a musician, though maybe not for the general public, but again, as a reviewer, to call something consistent is almost the greatest praise one can give. It means you believe it doesn't descent in quality at any point. There are reviews considering the album somewhat dull, but the articles read (and if this isn't expressed in our's, it needs to be adjusted) that those who consier the album as "dull" were generally positive reviews, but with little gripes. From a scoring perspective, I couldn't find a review that gave under 3 stars, which is something of a rarity. --lincalinca 10:26, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • From what I can see, although the reviews are not generally negative the best you could say is that they are "mixed". Wiktionary defines critical acclaim as Exceptionally good reviews from all or most critics. which this album has not received - Peripitus (Talk) 22:33, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is no information on who made the cover art - should be easy to get from the blurb that comes with them.

- Apart from that a good read and not far from the standard - Peripitus (Talk) 08:21, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comments' - looks promising...some prose issues...more to come. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 15:12, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

...Powderfinger toured and then spent three years on hiatus. - gah! --> ? had a three year hiatus? (not "on hiatus")

  • In the Cover art section - is para 3 talking about the front or back cover? Whichever one it is, the para should be added to the para it refers to.

The prose needs quite a bit of work. It is quite repetitive and clunky in places and I'm trying to smoothe it out to support the nom which I can't do yet.cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:48, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose:
  • I believe this article fails criterion 1a as the prose is not of professional standard. The entire article could use some new eyes for grammar, redundancy, and choppy 2-sentence paragraphs. It also needs to be reviewed for weasel words, i.e. Following the huge success..., ...Famous session pianist Benmont Tench.[10], etc. Perhaps submit to the League of Copyeditors.
    • I understand what you're saying here, though the term "famous" isn't a matter of subject, it's an objective adjective (lol) when used appropriately. The subjectivity may be as to whether this is accurate or not, though the greater majority of the album reviews make note of his Tench's fame. As to the term "huge success", I guess we can remove that, but it falls into the same bracket (though, admittedly more weakly, than the Tench descriptor). --lincalinca 10:01, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dates are inconsistent - please choose one method throughout. For example, in one sentence alone: A second single "I Don't Remember", was aired on radio on 9 July 2007.[4] and was released as a CD single on August 12, 2007.[5]
    • The dating format should automatically be generated through Special:Preferences. In other words, all the dates look the same to me (and what's in the edit box doesn't matter that much to a reader!) Dihydrogen Monoxide (H2O) 07:09, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe there is a misunderstanding. What I am seeing is "9 July 2007", and then "August 12, 2007". Choose a consistent format in writing dates throughout, i.e. choose either day/month/year as in 9 July 2007, or month/day/year as in August 12, 2007. ♫ Cricket02 14:07, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref.# 1 is a commercial site that focuses on selling CDs, and these types are sites are not generally considered reliable. Is there no other reliable source that could be used for a simple release date? And for that matter it is something that could be cited within the infobox, if at all, rather than in the lead.
    • Thanks for noting this, I'll get a better ref. However, as a general rule, we don't place refs in the infobox. Dihydrogen Monoxide (H2O) 07:09, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Sales sites are not reliable for providing an equal and balanced representation of the quality or the content of an album, but their reliability need not be questioned relating to rock hard facts, such as release dates, track listings and (if provided) track times. Scarcely are these facts going to be brought into question and if so, what would be gained by questioning the reliability of this piece of information? We can get another ref, but I don't see the validity of the need to. --lincalinca 10:01, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't even think you need a reference for this at all, especially not in the lead as it is something that is not likely to be challenged. ♫ Cricket02 14:07, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not all refs state a publisher. If the publisher is a website, please state it, i.e. Triple J (2007), New Powderfinger Album Details, retrieved on July 9, 2007 - abc.net.au would be added to |publisher= parameter. Please review throughout.

And please don't mark any of these "done". That should be left to the reviewer to determine if their issues have been addressed or not. Thanks and good luck. ♫ Cricket02 06:56, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    • Your reference to using the "done" tick is valid, though generally one will indicate that they've completed a task by indicating it's done, then if the reviewer is satisfied, they then strike it to indicate they agree that it is a satisfactory completion. --lincalinca 10:01, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
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