Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Campo dei Miracoli - Pisa

Piazza del Duomo[edit]

**Original** - The Piazza del Duomo is a large walled area in the heart of Pisa, Italy, noted for its mediaeval art and architecture. It was also named the *Piazza dei Miracoli* by the poet and author Gabriele d'Annunzio, and *Campo dei Miracoli* after a location in Pinnochio. The ground in this area is unstable, leading some of the buildings to be tilted out of the vertical, most famously the Leaning Tower of Pisa, seen in the background on the right, but the Baptistry of St. John, seen in the foreground, is also tilted out of true. Between them is the Duomo, a massive mediaeval cathedral. The outer wall of the Camposanto Monumentale (*Monumental cemetary*) can be seen on the left.

Reason: Great depth of field, and collects together all the main elements of the Piazza del Duomo in a compelling way. NOTE: Yes, it's supposed to be tilted. The Leaning Tower of Pisa is only the most extreme example.
Articles this image appears in: Pisa, newly added to Piazza dei Miracoli to replace a very blurry overhead shot.
Creator: Massimo Catarinella

Support as nominator Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 17:03, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral to Weak Oppose It could be a little sharper in certain areas. diego_pmc (talk) 21:50, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Unacceptable perspective distortion - mostly because the non straight verticals are actually making the Leaning Tower appear less leaning than it should. Mfield (talk) 23:52, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Every single one of those four buildings are leaning. The tower of Pisa only leans the most out of those four. Therefore it appears less leaning then it could appear like from a different angle. This picture represents how Pisa is. The tower of Pisa thus isn't as leaning as most people think, since it isn't as leaning from every corner. Therefore I truly don't understand your arguments following your rating. The Edit1 version of my photograph gives a wrong impression of what the Campo dei Miracoli is really like. The other three building appear to be not leaning in the edited version. Massimo Catarinella (talk) 16:41, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They may all be slightly unstraight in reality BUT... unless they are all leaning in the exact directions such that an a centered perspective distortion correction would straighten them all perfectly then what was clearly evident to anyone with any photographic experience is that the camera back was not horizontal when this photograph was shot and thus perspective distortion has caused them all to appear to lean backwards. I am pretty certain that the verticals on the arches of the building in the rear left are true and that's what I judged the correction by. If you need any further proof, look at how the top of the building in the foreground appears narrower than the base. It's perpective distortion. And it shouldn't be there in an encylopedic architecture shot. If people don't know how to/don't bother to photograph architecture correctly then it should be left to people who do. If this photo had been shot correctly in the first place then we would be able to see how the buildings lean in reality. This is an argument for opposing any version of these images. Mfield (talk) 16:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is not distortion. The building in the foreground is leaning in the same direction as the tower. They are both leaning to the right. I can prove by the way that it isn't distortion through other photographs. I've made a lot of photographs with different cameras. And as for your remark: "If you need any further proof, look at how the top of the building in the foreground appears narrower than the base." The top of the building is narrower than the base! Just type in Google the words: battistero and Pisa. Massimo Catarinella (talk) 17:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC) 85.223.118.251 (talk) 17:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you google it and find some better taken pictures you will discover what I am talking about. I am not talking from a position of ignorance either - I have been to Pisa multiple times. It is clear that from the position the original was taken and wide angle lens involved, that it is suffering from distortion. I may have overcorrected it in my example edit (that I didn't support either) but it is impossible to correct the distortion accurately without an accurate reference and that would be having the camera back vertical. This makes it useless as an accurate depiction of the subject. End of story. Mfield (talk) 17:40, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I rest my case. This is a never ending discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Massimo Catarinella (talk • contribs) 17:46, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well fair enough if you will. I did some additional research. According to Baptistry (Pisa), the Baptistry only leans 0.6 degrees toward the cathedral. That is barely visible given it's away from the viewer in these images rather than L-R. More interestingly, according to Leaning_Tower_of_Pisa, the tower leans 3.97 degrees. Well, if you open up my edit in Photoshop and use the measuring tool on it, you get 4 degrees which is pretty close. I still suspect thus that my edit is far closer to reality than the original based on facts from WP itself. Mfield (talk) 22:05, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support Edit 1 But definitely oppose original per Mfield. faithless (^speak) 14:38, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, despite wanting to support at first glance. Lighting is great & should really carry the whole shot, but the opportunity wasn't well taken. Lens wide open (why??) ruins all chance of good fine detail, obvious distortion isn't countered by camera orientation, perspective correction has helped the all-important "leaning" issue but left the battistero looking squashed. It needs to be more of an architectural shot, not a tourist snap & there's any amount of those of this subject on Flickr which are no worse than this one. --mikaul^talk 14:41, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It's a better shot than that panorama at the top of the article which goes all over the place, but it has problems. If it had been taken from further to the right the line of buildings would have been better and we could have lost that weak white wall to the left of the dome. Probably needs to be taken from higher up as no amount of cutting will disguise the camera tilt which confuses the real tilts. Also although the replaced picture was fuzzy it actually gave good context and should be put back somewhere. Motmit (talk) 22:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not promoted . --John254 00:12, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]