Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2017 April 29

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April 29

Taxes and Tax Return

I have read the article unreported employment. But I still want to know how the government finds out that I owe the government money. For most of my life, I earned pocket change through unreported employment or under-the-table employment. Only recently, I became formally employed. Does the government only care about my formally employment history? If I fill out one of those tax return forms and drop it in the mailbox at the post office, then how does the government examine the tax information from millions of citizens? Between the day of sending in the tax return form and the day of receiving the tax return, how many days are there? Are tax returns sent into my mailbox? What if someone looks into my mail and steals my tax return? Is it safer to overestimate my taxes than underestimate? If I dig into a landfill or dumpster and find valuable items like unspoiled food or discarded clothes, then do I have to count them as "taxable income", or am I allowed to keep them for my personal living? 50.4.236.254 (talk) 02:27, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

A few of your questions are possibly answerable here, but some appear to be requests for financial and/or legal advice and/or opinion. My advice to you is to not listen to the advice of random strangers on the internet. Consult an accountant or someone else qualified to answer you, such as someone who prepares tax returns professionally. Matt Deres (talk) 03:51, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Do they charge a fee for dispensing advice? If so, then it may be best to acquire information myself than ask someone else. I mean, tax lawyers probably went to law school to study tax law. If I become educated enough in tax law, then I may be able to understand how tax works in my own society, which means finding the academic database resources through my local library. 50.4.236.254 (talk) 11:21, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

The tax authorities are not interested in food or clothing that you find, regardless of whether you acquired them with permission or without. Casual employment should always be reported to tax authorities on your tax return (though I cannot advise on whether or not the authorities have any way to find out if you fail to report). As Matt says above, if you are talking about significant amounts then you need to consult a professional. Dbfirs 07:33, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

One way they could find out: you could mention that you have earned unreported income on a public venue such as Wikipedia. Blueboar (talk) 11:43, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

The unreported employment article says that the government may only be interested in large-scale operations, like a big business that hires many employees. They may not be interested in a few dollars made by one person who earned that money through participating in research studies or driving someone home. 50.4.236.254 (talk) 11:59, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

I think you've misread the article. It clearly says the government is interested in small scale fraud when they find out about it via some other means. One such manner may be if people report said person to the government, after said person annoyed everyone by unbelievable questions and comments then told everyone they had annoyed that were involved in tax evasion. (I'd note in any case it seems to be concentrating on other aspects of enforcement rather than simply tax evasion, and most govermental tax departments do take an interest when someone's apparent income seems a lot higher than their reported income no matter if it's only one person.) Nil Einne (talk) 14:03, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

No, I did not misread the article. The article clearly says that there is beneficial unreported employment. It writes of lemonade stands that have been shut down by law enforcement, which may suggest that even if it's illegal, the illegality will be badly received by the public. After all, they are only kids who make pocket change. So, even if I get charged with tax evasion, I doubt anyone will take the charges seriously, and the case may even be dismissed. For income tax threshold, the income must be $9,750 in 2012 for a single person. As you can see, by this fact alone, I have not committed tax evasion, as my unreported income is extremely low to be negligible. 50.4.236.254 (talk) 14:54, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Firstly, I don't know why you bring up "beneficial unreported income" as it wasn't something I was commenting on. I only said that your initial claim that the government has no interest in small scale unreported income ("They may not be interested in a few dollars made by one person who earned that money through participating in research studies or driving someone home") is not supported by the article you refer to. The article specifically says "Discovery and enforcement of smaller-scaled unreported employment is typically through a secondary indiscretion like fraud, tax irregularities, and unrelated or partially related civil/criminal violations of the employer or employee."

Also you seem to be contradicting yourself since although you first said the government isn't interested, you're now saying that the government is interested, but it's just badly received by the public (and so perhaps not as enforced as regularly) which is a different point. And you're now even going as far as to suggest that you will be charged (which clearly means the government is interested) but the charges will be dismissed. Something incidentally in no way mentioned by our article, and which makes no sense. (This isn't legal advice but while jury nullification is a thing, it doesn't generally result in the charges being dismissed. That often requires the judge to be involved. And this is a big deal since jury nullification means you at least have to go through the whole trial process and run the risk that your belief the jury is going to do that turns out to be wrong.)

Also no one ever said anything about being charged with tax evasion as an offence anyway. The point is that when you are involved in tax evasion, and I have no idea or comment on whether you are (so your figures are irrelevant), the government tends to have multiple ways they can pursue you including often simply forcing you to pay tax and very stiff penalties on the unreported income. This may not go to court, unless someone decides to massively disrupt their life by challenging it. Of course their life may already be massively disrupted when the government involves them in a tax audit. Note that income thresholds are nearly always combined. If someone is earning money from a formal job, and this pushes them over the threshold this generally means any unreported income is above the threshold. Any yes, whatever happens with lemonade stands and youth odd-jobs, the government does tend to take an interest in any income someone reasons for driving for Uber or whatever in addition to their full time job, even if it's not something they have the resources to often actively pursue themselves. (In other words, even if it's correct that the government isn't going to or can't do anything about lemonade stands or teen odd jobs; there's a wide gulf between lemonade stands or even teens taking odd jobs, and large-scale operations. Precisely where you fit on this scale is something we're not interested and can't tell you. However your opinion of where you fit on the scale could easily be wrong, hence the suggestion you seek legal advice if necessary.)

Nil Einne (talk) 09:22, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Since we seem to be focused on the US... I would suggest checking out the irs.gov website as a reference. There, you will find answers to most of the questions about taxes that you have been asking. You should also look to see if your State government has a similar website. Blueboar (talk) 09:41, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Denying the holocaust

In England, the burden in a libel case is on the defendant to prove "justification", i.e. that what the plaintiff said was not true and therefore there is no case to answer. In America, it's the other way round - the plaintiff is required to prove that what he said is true. As these are both common law jurisdictions, why the discrepancy? This is the civil law - in the case of a prosecution for criminal libel the maxim is "the greater the truth, the greater the libel". 81.147.143.222 (talk) 17:34, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

These definitions should reduce confusion.

libel n. Defamation, the illegal act of writing things about someone that are not true

plaintiff n. someone who brings a legal case (claiming libel) against someone else in a court of law

defendant n. someone who has been accused (of committing libel) and is on trial

Laws against holocaust denial exist as specific bans that vary with country, excluding UK and USA, that do not involve prosecution or defense of libel. Blooteuth (talk) 18:14, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

In terms of the discrepancy, New York Times Co. v. Sullivan was the key point of departure, and the judgement was based on interpretation of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. Warofdreams talk 01:31, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

The first amendment gives wide tolerance for ignorance. That's the price of freedom. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:39, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

• Your mention of Holocaust denial suggests you're talking about the libel case Irving v Penguin Books Ltd (when the Holocaust denier David Irving sued historian Deborah Lipstadt and her publishers for libel after she called him a Holocaust denier). Our article on that case is extensive and talks a bit about the legal background and English libel law. Smurrayinchester 08:56, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
  • A perfect example of the old adage: Never sue - they might prove it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:11, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

A better adage is don't sue unless you really really really have to. One of my uncles sued a newspaper and was awarded minimal damages because they seemed to think politicians were game for all sorts of rubbish. And then he lost the seat because of what they wrote. Dmcq (talk) 14:14, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

I remember it well. I was involved in an appeal in the next door court. As we approached we saw a crowd of reporters who we thought were waiting for us. 92.8.222.66 (talk) 12:15, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Benoit Hamon communes PS primaries

Is there a website that shows which communes were won by Benoit Hamon during the second round of the Parti Socialiste primaries? Please and thanks. Donmust90 (talk) 22:09, 29 April 2017 (UTC)Donmust90Donmust90 (talk) 22:09, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

If this article doesn't have the answer, then the sources therein might: French Socialist Party presidential primary, 2017 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:3CF4:5668:5FB:EC43 (talk) 00:16, 30 April 2017 (UTC)