Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 April 26

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April 26

English ⟨th⟩, European Spanish ⟨ce, ci, z⟩ and [θ], [ð]

Recently, I have watched some videos teaching the English th-sounds and there is always the advice of sticking your tongue out, pressing it against your teeth. However according to IPA, these sounds are called dental fricatives. As far as I know, Spanish /t/ and /d/ are somewhat dental, yet they are not pronounced with the tongue sticking out. However, when I looked for a video teaching the Spanish equivalent of the English ⟨th⟩, the person did the same thing as you would do in English. Is this a broad use of the term "dental"? Is it coincidental that it applies for both English or Spanish, or could the person teaching Spanish be influenced by the English /θ/, and in fact the Spanish one is different? Are there any languages where the /θ/ and /ð/ are pronounced without the tongue sticking out? I know they sound very similar, but I would like to know more about articulation. --Explosivo (talk) 22:50, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

See dental consonant – the basic definition is indeed that those are sounds produced by contact of tongue with the upper teeth. We also have Interdental consonant – Interdental consonants are rare cross-linguistically. Interdental realisations of otherwise dental or alveolar consonants may occur as idiosyncrasies or as coarticulatory effects of a neighbouring interdental sound. The most commonly occurring interdental consonants are the non-sibilant fricatives (sibilants may be dental, but do not appear as interdentals). Apparently, interdentals do not contrast with dental consonants within any language.

Now, it is "common knowledge" that /θ/ and /ð/ are pronounced with the tongue sticking out – at least, that's how ESL learners are commonly taught to produce them. However, it is not really true, neither in English nor in Spanish case: for most speakers, only the top teeth are involved, although the full interdental realization is allophonic. Our article Voiceless dental fricative hints at that: The dental non-sibilant fricatives are often called "interdental" because they are often produced with the tongue between the upper and lower teeth, and not just against the back of the upper or lower teeth, as they are with other dental consonants.

See also Phonological history of Spanish coronal fricatives, which explains the complex development and variations of /s/ and /θ/ across Spanish-speaking area. No such user (talk) 09:29, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Wow! :)--Pierpao (talk) 10:06, 27 April 2016 (UTC)