View source for Talk:Bell AH-1 Cobra/Archive 1

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==Armaments==
How come only the M197 gun is listed under araments?  What about AGM-114 Hellfire, 70m rockets, AIM-9 sidewinders, and bombs?
[[User:Adeptitus|Adeptitus]] 21:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
:Because no one has added them or listed them. Be bold! --[[User:Falcorian|Falcorian]]&nbsp;<sup><small>[[User_talk:Falcorian|(talk)]]</small></sup> 21:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
::Dont forget the TOW  :)  [[User:Searchme|<span style="color:#007FFF;">Jo</span>]][[User:Searchme/Esperanza|<span style="color:green;">e </span>]][[User talk:Searchme|<span style="color:#007FFF;"> I</span>]] 09:01, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Ask not what Wikipedia can do for you, ask what [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=AH-1_Cobra&action=edit&section=10 you can do] for Wikipedia :) [[User:HueyCobra|HueyCobra]] 07:39, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Depending on how far down in the weeds you want to get, you can also mention that the Whiskey can carry 5.00 in Zunni rockets in a 4-shot pod.  The 2.75 in rockets can be loaded in a 7-shot or 19-shot pod.--[[User:Mbaur181|Mbaur181]] 02:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

== Proposal on AH-1 specs ==
I'd like to propose we change the AH-1 Cobra specs from AH-1S to AH-1W/Z.  The specs for AH-1W can be found here:

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/supcobra/index.html#supcobra8

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/supcobra/specs.html

The reason for this suggestion is because the AH-1W represents a more modern model more than AH-1S.

-- [[User:Adeptitus|Adeptitus]] 23:05, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

:I recommend having two models' specifications. For instance, the AH-1G and the AH-1W. This gives an idea of how the capabilities and qualities of the aircraft have changed since the original version was produced. ([[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 05:05, 7 October 2006 (UTC))

::I have added AH-1W to the specs, thought the figures need to be updated. We can change this to AH-1Z when that model is fully in service (several years). -- [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 00:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

== Re: unopposed troop drops ==
:It soon became clear that the unarmed UH-1 troop helicopters were not able to make '''unopposed''' troop drops in the landing zones, but that heavy firepower would be needed to clear the Viet Cong and NVA troops out of the way first.

"Unopposed" keeps being changed to "opposed". At first glance, "opposed" seems to be correct, but it is not. I have checked the original source for this paragraph ((2004) International Air Power Review, Volume 12. AIRtime Publishing. {{ISBN|1-880588-77-3}}.), and it does read "unopposed". We may need to reword this sentence to make it clear what is meant. For now, I have put "unopposed" back in, as in the original source.
--[[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 04:35, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

:I'm sorry, but that is clearly a typo, if the source supports the "unopposed statement". What does the source state? What possible reason would render a helicopter unable to make unopposed landings that firepower would fix? --[[User:Mmx1|Mmx1]] 04:38, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

::It would be desirable for any helicopter to make an unopposed troop drop. It would be unable to do so if it were opposed, i.e. the enemy was firing at them. Firepower would clear the site, thus making it unopposed. Thus if the site had enemy gunners, the helicopter would not be able to make unopposed troop drops. I disagree that it is a typo.
::--[[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 04:45, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

:::If the site had enemy gunners, wouldn't that constitute an opposed drop? Okay, I see what you mean; that sentence does need to be edited. It's not that the helicopters were unable to make unopposed troop drops; it's that there were no opportunities to make unopposed troop drops.--[[User:Mmx1|Mmx1]] 04:55, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Right.--[[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 04:59, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

== Sioux Scout ==
If [[Bell 207]] (Sioux Scout) is going to redirect to this article, the article should have a bit more about the development, and possibly a picture, of the Sioux Scout. ([[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 17:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC))

:Once we get that much information on the Sioux Scout, it would make sense to give it its own article. --[[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 03:30, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

::I doubt there is enough information on the Sioux Scout out there to create its own article without violating the Wikipedia policy on original research. There is only one or two pictures on the web that I have seen over and over again in reference to the Sioux Scout. As far as a private industry endeavour, the aircraft and its associated program wasn't long-lived. I feel that, if created, it will remain a stub or start article. However, it is directly tied to Bell's development of the AH-1, and deserves credit here. If you would like to work on an article for it, you can reference these links. [http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/aahist3.htm#EXP][http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://avia.russian.ee/foto/bell_207_1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://avia.russian.ee/helicopters_eng/bell_207-r.html&h=261&w=336&sz=26&hl=en&sig2=FFVAnioWebk_VEEzx09uNQ&start=5&tbnid=EaS8VLEW7Y3yaM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=119&ei=JxgZRbHAM7jSaNXavd8E&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsioux%2Bscout%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff]([[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 12:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC))

<s>I remember somewhere, that the Bell 47 demonstrator was called the Bell Warrior and the actual Sioux Scout was merely a body design that never flew. ([[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 03:34, 5 November 2006 (UTC))</s>

:Disregard, I had Iroquois Warrior mixed up with Sioux Scout. I'm straight now. ([[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 04:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC))

Or maybe your thinking of the kiowa Warrior [[OH-58D]][[http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/imageDetails?invocationType=imageDetails&query=oh-58d&img=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.minihelicopter.net%2FOH58DKiowaWarrior%2FOH-58D%2520Kiowa%2520Warrior.jpg&site=&host=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.minihelicopter.net%2FOH58DKiowaWarrior%2Findex.htm&width=121&height=87&thumbUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fimages-partners.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AqcvT7Kd_tSNreM%3Awww.minihelicopter.net%2FOH58DKiowaWarrior%2FOH-58D%252520Kiowa%252520Warrior.jpg&b=image%3FinvocationType%3Dtopsearchbox.imagehome%26query%3Doh-58d]][[User:ANigg|ANigg]] 06:44, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

::No. The Iroquois Warrier was a early-1960s Bell study based on the UH-1B with a tandem cockpit. It was a precursor to the Bell 209, but the rear cockpit was a lot higher than was used in the 209. Only mock-ups were ever made of the Iroquois Warrior. I've seen pics of it in books, and would love to find one we could use for this article. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 07:00, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

==Piasecki H-16/16H==
The Piasecki PV-15 Transporter (YH-16) was a 15-ton helicopter which flew c. 1953, and was not put into production. It resembles a larger version of the YHC-1A/CH-46, and "may" be a direct ancestor. So I am inclined to think that the 16H may be correct, tho I do not know what it is either. Piasecki had sold Vertol to Boeing c. 1959, but continued to make helicopters, tho I have no info on what they were producing in 1964 that would have made an interim solution.
-- [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 04:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I checked the Piaseki website you gave. At [http://www.piasecki.com/yh-16.htm], the first line states, ''"In 1964, development of the H-16 was initiated in response to a U.S. Air Force requirement for a long range (1432 mi.) Rescue helicopter . . ."'' Yet further down, it states, ''"The first flight of the YH-16 was 23 October 1953."'' My printed source also gives a early-50's date, so I believe the "1964" is a typo.

[http://www.piasecki.com/compound.htm] lists three compound aircraft: the '''16H-1''' (flown 1962), the '''16H-1A''' (flown 1965), and the '''16H-3''' (never flown). The '''16H-1A''' [http://www.piasecki.com/16h-1a.htm] appears to be the one in question here, as it was developed for the Army in 1964. Whether it was actually submitted for the Interim AAFSS remains to be seen. -- [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 04:26, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

:Easy enough to check, I just emailed them to see if they had any info as to which one might have been considered. ([[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 02:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC))

:[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]]: The webmaster seemed confused by the question and I haven't received a reply since. Guess the Army may not be the only ones confused. Maybe a request to the Army Aviation Museum is necessary? --17:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

:Found this reference[http://www.aiaa.org/tc/vstol/augmented.html] that seems to mimic the Piasecki compound helicopter information. May also be derived from it. I'm looking for more information on the interim program to get a program name or some other clue that will guide us in. I'm inclined to believe that it was the 16H and the author of my reference was unfamiliar with Piasecki's model information or copied a reference that transliterated it incorrectly. --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 00:52, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

== Users - Saudi Arabia ==
Is/was Saudi Arabia really a user of the Huey Cobra?  I've never seen any reference anywhere else to the Saudis owning them, with Bell 406CS scout helecopters and AH64 Apaches being the only attack helecopters owned.  [[User:Nigel Ish|Nigel Ish]] 19:18, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

:[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]]: This site[http://www.worldairforces.com/countries/saudi_arabia/sda.html] says, yes. However, this site[http://www.uswarplanes.net/uh1ah1.html] only lists the following countries as having AH-1 helicopters in service: Bahrain, Iran, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Pakistan, South Korea, Spain, Taiwan, Thailand and Turkey. Which is echoed by this site.[http://www.vectorsite.net/avcobra_2.html#m6] --00:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah Got say the Saudis don't have any Huey Cobras, [[AH-64]] Yes. I think the site is inaccurate [http://www.worldairforces.com/countries/saudi_arabia/sda.html]all though
this site has serial/Bu Number which I have to say is more on the ball
[http://www.uswarplanes.net/uh1ah1.html

I'm gonna kill it in the users List until there's more evidence to proof otherwise. I can Promise you all 100% that the Saudi's don't have [[Cobras]] in there inventory <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:ANigg|ANigg]] ([[User talk:ANigg|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/ANigg|contribs]]){{#if: 02:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)|&#32; 02:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> 

:I agree they don't have them now. But since we've been listing both past and present users together (they are now separate lists), can you aslo confirm that they never did use them? Thanks. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 07:20, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

== Infobox Date ==
[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]]: Akradecki, I noticed you undid/reverted the change to the Infobox date by an IP editor. {{quotation|new users and unregistered users do not have any date preferences set, and will therefore see the unconverted ISO 8601 date.|Wikipedia Manual of Style}}
I wonder if that was a necessary revert. In fact, the examples on the [[Template:Infobox Aircraft|template]] show inputting dates as other than ISO 8601 format. Is there a Project discussion that I haven't found or come across (...again) on a [[WP:AIR]] guideline that suggests ISO 8601 format? --17:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

== Chilean AH-1? ==
The following article, [[Chilean Army#Aircraft inventory|Chilean Army]], has the following reference for Chile operating AH-1 aircraft:<blockquote>"World Military Aircraft Inventory", Aerospace Source Book 2007, Aviation Week & Space Technology, 15 January 2007.</blockquote>--[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 21:03, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

:But which version, the F or the W? I hadn't heard of Chile using the W in my sources, but they are a few years old. Just wanted to make sure on this. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 21:37, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

::It's a reference, but the verifiability of the reference and what is being referenced is unclear. The book costs $49 from Aviationnow.com[https://a1.ecom01.com/aw_marketdatacenter?s_id=11]. It's new, so maybe it is up-to-date? --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 03:55, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

:Maybe someone in the project has a copy, or access to a copy. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 04:45, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

::I'm tempted to buy a copy myself, but I'd rather preview the info to see if it is worth it. --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 04:54, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Its not worth it, I’ve been subscribing to AW&ST for years & I can tell you that info unfortunately is not accurate, in their source book. I’ll update ref; material ASAP
FYI you can just go down to your local Library and check out the AW&ST 2007 Source book in the Magazine dept[[User:ANigg|ANigg]] 22:01, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm gonna dump'em in the users List until there's more evidence to proof otherwise. I can Promise you all 100% that the [[Chilean]] & [[Egyptian]] Amries dont have [[Cobras]] in their inventory [[User:ANigg|ANigg]] 06:58, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

:I'm gonna have to agree with ANigg on the Argentina reference that I added as well. Like most Central/South American countries, helicopters are part of the Air Force and not the Army. The Air Force website[http://www.fuerzaaerea.mil.ar/material/h_aereo.html] lists UH-1. The uswarplanes.net website[http://www.uswarplanes.net/uh1ah1.html] shows that Chile received UH-1s, and the Argentine website also shows UH-1s in the inventory. What is likely, is that the CDI reference had misunderstood H-1 for AH-1, as it is the first H-1 one would come across alphabetically and it would fit the agenda of the article that was the reference for my addition. I think we need more than one independent reference to consider adding anything to this list of users. --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 14:05, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanx Born [[User:ANigg|ANigg]] 22:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

== Operations map ==
the map [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:World_operators_of_the_AH-1.png] shows [[Saudi Arabia]] as a user country of AH-1 Cobra , and doesnt mark [[Egypt]] . while the article shows Egypt as a user country and not Saudi Arabia , shall we post some of the {{Tl|Fact}} template here ? [[User:Ammar shaker|Ammar]] 13:06, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:I've removed the map, as I can't find any evidence Saudi Arabia used Cobras. This is one reason I'm not much in favor of user maps - they can be inaccurate, and I've no clue how to change them! - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 06:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[[Egypt]] is definetly not a [[AH-1 Cobra]] User. They have [[AH-64]] Apaches which they just up grade to longbows. [http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/ah64d/news/2007/q1/070104b_nr.html]
[[User:ANigg|ANigg]] 17:50, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
* Having AH-64s doesn't automatically mean they don't have AH-1s too.  Although they may not. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 17:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[[Egypt]] is definetly '''NOT''' a [[AH-1 Cobra]] User. They have [[AH-64]] Apaches which they just up grade to longbows. [http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/ah64d/news/2007/q1/070104b_nr.html]
[[User:ANigg|ANigg]] 18:43, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Find me a cobra & i'll be a beleiver [[http://www.mmc.gov.eg/branches/AIRFORCE/NormalA.asp]]
* They don't have an entry for Cobra images there.  However, a search for Cobra on that domain turns up not hits.  -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 19:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Why do you keep removing operators without stating any reason <s>what so ever</s> in the edit summary?  <s>That could be taken as vandalism by some.</s> -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 23:08, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

:He stated his reasons in the above section, tho I agree edit summaries would be helpful. Born and I agree the source for Argentinian use is somewhat questionable, given the "agenda" of the article and organization. As it's the only source we have, and given the article is 4 years old, I'm for leaving it out until we get more recent, independent confirmation. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 23:19, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

:* I see reasons for Egypt's and Chile's removals.  I did put a verification needed tag on the Argentina reference. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 23:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

:He thanked Born for his statements on Argentina, and then removed the item based on that. My interpretation anyway. :) - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 23:34, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
:* OK, I guess I'm just not sure then.  I'll let others police this one henceforth.. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 23:38, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanx Bill & Fnayson. I apologize for the mix up in the edit summary I put it in.  I thought talk page was suffient enough for comments on changes.[[User:ANigg|ANigg]] 03:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
* Thanks.  I apologize too.  I didn't go through the discussions above well enough before.  -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 03:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

== Dubious operators ==
The article's operators section menitoned past and present.  That past ones will be more difficult to check.  Should the past part be removed? 

Here are the entries that have been removed recently. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 23:51, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

* {{ARG}}
** 12 AH-1 aircraft transferred as Excess Defense Articles.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.cdi.org/friendlyversion/printversion.cfm?documentID=454&from_page=../program/document.cfm|title=Post Sept. 11 Arms Sales and Military Aid Demonstrate Dangerous Trend|author=Rachel Stohl|publisher=[http://www.cdi.org Center for Defense Information]|accessdate=1 March 2007}}</ref>

* {{CHI}}  	 
** AH-1F (24 in use) 	 
	 
* {{EGY}} 	 
** AH-1W (5 delivered + 13 pending approval and delivery from US army surplus) <nowiki>{{verify source}}</nowiki>

I think it should stay but at this point the only true past operator is the [[AH-1G]] for the spanish Armada [[http://www.revistanaval.com/armada/flotaero/ah1g.htm]]
[[User:ANigg|ANigg]] 03:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I've contacted the edtior at [[air forces monthly]] magazine, to see
if they can give us any insight to this matter. They are very good source of info.  The title of Air forces monthly isn't there for no reason[[User:ANigg|ANigg]] 06:36, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

==''Tzefa'' what?==
For those of us not [[bilingual]] in [[Brad Garrett|Urban Hebrew]], can somebody [[Hebrew|translate]]?  [[User:Trekphiler|Trekphiler]] 00:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

:Makes you wonder what Google is for... --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 01:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

== Mistake ==
There is a mistake in the weight section

The AH-1W Super Cobra reads "Max takeoff weight: 14,750 lb (4,500 kg)"

I know that 14,750lb does not equal 4,500 kg, but I don't know if the lb needs changing to match the kg, or the kg to match the lb?
[[User:Perfectblue97|perfectblue]] 15:50, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

* The pound values are probably correct.  It was most likely designed in US customary units.  It appears the F data was copied and changed for the W with the metric MTOW unchanged, since the F table lists 4500 kg as well.  The [http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/ah-1_cobra.pl globalaircraft page] lists a MTOW of 14,750 lb (6691 kg). -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 17:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

== Operators in Lead  ==
There's 9 users listed in the lead now.  (''Upgraded versions continue to fly with the [[United States Marine Corps]], the [[Islamic Republic of Iran Army]] Aviation and [[IRGC Air Force|Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps Air Force]], the [[Israeli Air Force]], the [[Japan Self Defense Forces]], the [[Republic of China Army]], the [[Pakistan Army]], the [[Republic of Korea Army]], the [[Turkish Armed Forces]] and several other users.'')   Seems like listing the top 3-4 would be enough.  From the numbers in the article, that'll be USMC (269), Iran (202), Japan (89), and Pakistan (78).  Does that sound reasonable? -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 23:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

:Oh my! I didn't realize it had gotten that big! I've gone ahead and cut it back to just the USMC. If you waat to put that list in the "More users" field in the infobox, that's fine with me. THe Lead is just supposed to be a summary, and the USMC is the primary user and developer of the type now. I'd like to see a good source on how many of the 202 AH-1Js Iran bought in the 70s are still operational, but the way everyone is caving into them politically, that's likey to be unknown for a long time. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 23:46, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

==Requested split==
[[AH-1 Cobra]] → [[AH-1 SuperCobra]] 
* On recommendation from some members of the '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Aircraft/Rotorcraft task force|Rotorcraft Task Force]]''', in preparation for making improvements to the Cobra article(s), we propose to aplit the twin-engine variants off to the [[AH-1 SuperCobra]] page. This will divide the variants almost in half, and allow us to add more info to each separate page. The US Army variants, esp the AH-1Q/R/S/P/E/F, have scant coverage here, but played a very important role in the 70s and 80s before the Apache's arrival. The USMC twin variants (AH-1J/T/W/Z) have also evolved separately from the Army's singles, meaning there won't be much overlap between the two articles. International users will be covered according to variant used (single or twin), meaning some operators may listed be on both pages (Turkey, for example).

* Naming: We are proposing '''[[AH-1 SuperCobra]]''' as the best of several not-quite-ideal options, as each variant has had a slightly different name. Currently, because of the AH-1W's use by the USMC in both Iraq conflicts, "SuperCobra" is the most widely known name of the twin variants. Others titles considered were [[AH-1 SeaCobra]], [[AH-1 SeaCobra/SuperCobra]], [[AH-1 Cobra (twins)]], and [[AH-1 Cobra (USMC)]]. If you have other suggestions, please discuss them separately from your vote on the split.

===Survey===
:''Add &nbsp;<tt><big><nowiki>*[[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] '''Support'''</nowiki></big></tt>&nbsp; or &nbsp;<tt><big><nowiki>*[[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|15px]] '''Oppose'''</nowiki></big></tt>&nbsp; on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.

====Survey - Support votes====
*[[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] '''Support''' - Proposer, as stated above. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 06:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
*[[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] '''Support''' - Per above. [[User:John Smith's|John Smith&#39;s]] 12:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
*[[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] '''Support''' - Sounds like a plan. [[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 12:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
*[[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] '''Support''' - Still agree. --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 14:33, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

====Survey - Oppose votes====
*[[Image:Symbol oppose vote.svg|15px]] '''Oppose''' - 

===Discussion===
* Since there's no SuperCobra article, I corrected the section header and stuff at top. Also if approved, the Super article will cover AH-1W, AH-1Z, etc, correct?  Not just Z. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 06:01, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
** Sorry, I was still writing the proposal when you posted. Your questions should be answered there. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 06:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
* I would guess the SuperCobra info still stay in the AH-1 article in summary form, right?  Thanks.  -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 12:58, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
** Yes, probably in a short twin variants list, as well as mentions in the text, Infobox, and related content sections. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 17:02, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

===Decision===
No opposition after 5 days - will split shortly. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 18:07, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

*Done. Both articles still need LOTS of work. We really need some good pics of the various single models, especially in US Army service. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 23:28, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

==USMC==
Shouldn't the USMC still be listed here after the Army?  I'm assuming they used the earlier Cobra versions, which may be wrong. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 21:08, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
:Patuxent River NAS museum webpage on the AH-1G and AH-1J for a USMC reference.[http://www.paxmuseum.com/ah1/AH1.htm] --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 22:26, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
:* Got it, thanks.  Seems sorts like the Navy wanting 2 engine jets. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 23:04, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

::It is, actually. THe J was originally going to be a marinized (sea-worthy) single G, b/c they thought two engines would be too heavy and expensive, but when the PT6T was developed for the 212/UH-1N, it was realized it was perfect for the J also. As Born has noted, there's lots of gaps in the history coverage. I'll try to get tht sourced and put into the text in time. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 23:27, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

== Comparable aircraft ==
What Soviet/Russian helicopters can be compared with AH-1? [[Ka-50]] and [[Mi-28]] are more modern and are counterparts to [[AH-64]]... --[[User:Alexander Iwaschkin|Alexander Ivashkin]] 23:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

:There really aren't any to my knowledge. The AH-1 was the first attack helicopter, having features such as a tandem cockpit and small stub wings. The first Soviet attack helicopter came in the 1970s, and was the M-24 Hind. There were armed versions of the Mi-8 before that, but both these helicopters were much larger than the AH-1, and carried troops. Given that the Cobra is still in production, I personally don't have a problem listing the other more modern attack helicopters here. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 06:29, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

== Cost? ==
See [[Talk:Mil_Mi-28#Cost.3F]]. [[User:RebDrummer61|RebDrummer61]]<sup>[[User Talk:RebDrummer61|alalala!]]</sup> <small>[22:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC)]</small>

I wasn't able to find a cost on the AH-1 on *.mil sites.  This is [http://www.warplanes.com/store/item.asp?department_id=86&item_id=207 one] the sites I find on a general internet search.  Anybody got something on this?  Thanks. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 00:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

== Model 209 ==
I had labeled this paragraph as unreferenced since several of the statements seemed beyond credibility, but the unreferenced tag is removed with only one reference:
* Donald, David: Modern Battlefield Warplanes, page 165. AIRtime Publishing Inc, 2004. {{ISBN|1-880588-76-5}}
Since the requirement for references is that they be verifiable by the reader, and I have no access to the above volume, is this reference intended to apply to the whole paragraph or the statement it follows in the very last paragraph of this section? ([[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 01:15, 5 November 2006 (UTC))

:It references most of the whole paragraph. I'm still new to citing here, so I'm not sure how exactly top cite the whole section.

:The volume is a recently published book that is still available on the publisher's website. The section in the book on the Cobra is a reprint from {{cite book|title=International Air Power Review, Volume 12|publisher=AIRtime Publishing|year=2004|ISBN=1-880588-77-3}}, from which much of the Wiki article is taken (not word for word, but clearly sourced from it). If you feel we need a separate source, then by all means add the tags back. But the information is in the book; that's what I verified. As far as to the TH-1G, I haven't seen anything about it in that book yet. -- [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 01:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

:I have just found a reference to the TH-1G in an older book I have (1990). It also mentions the TH-1S Night Stalker, a PNVS trainer for the AH-64A. Do you want the source information? -- [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 01:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

::Probably where the references on those other sites I mentioned came from. No, I don't really care for that source information. Easy enough to check against official DoD designations to see that there were no official designations other than the TAH-1S I mentioned, earlier. ([[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 03:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC))

Well, issues I have are the claim that in 1965 the AAFSS was experiencing technical problems and that 1965 was the deadline for the AAFSS. The Source Selection Board (SSB) did not select Sikorsky and Lockheed as the winners of the Project Definition Phase until February 1965. Lockheed wasn't announced as the winner of the design competition until November 1965 and the Equipment Development contract wasn't awarded until March 1966. Comparatively, the Model 209 wasn't evaluated until late fiscal year 1965 (early autumn 1965) and wasn't awarded a production contract until April 1966. And, even though it had already flown, didn't enter theater until over a year later. There weren't technical problems as the author/editor suggests, but there was an impatience for something with more capability than a UH-1B/C and waiting for the AAFSS was going to take too long. Technical and political issues with the AH-56 began in 1967 as Lockheed attempted to adjust requirements to allow modifications to the design (reportedly increased rotor diameter) to meet performance requirements.<sup>1</sup>

Additionally, the article claims, "In Vietnam, events were also advancing in favour of the Model 209. Attacks on US forces were increasing, and by the end of June 1965 there were already 50,000 US ground troops in Vietnam." Not quite sure that this makes a case. It doesn't even make the case that UH-1B/C aircraft were inadequate to the job. The shortcomings of the UH-1B/C were slow speeds because of design and gross weight, not inability to support troops.

The article mentions the Piasecki 16H being evaluated. Army documents<sup>1</sup> state that it was the H-16. The Piasecki website [http://www.piasecki.com (piasecki.com)] says that in 1964 the Air Force was interested in the turbine version and the Army was on board with that program. Since the Army was evaluating the CH-47 (and in fact, had test ACH-47s in theater), it is possible that it was the H-16 and not the 16H being evaluated for an interim aircraft. As it is, conflicting source documents suggest that somewhere else, another source needs to be introduced to validate one or the other.
*<sup>1</sup> An Abridged History of the Army Attack Helicopter Program. (1973) Prepared by: Office of the Assistant Vice Chief of Staff of the Army, Office of the Director of Material Programs
([[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 03:07, 5 November 2006 (UTC))

:OK. Had I understood this from the beginning, I would have left the tag in. I simply misunderstood what you were asking to be verified. Anyway, we've confirmed that what is in the article is what was in the book.

:As far as the UH-1s being inadequate to do the job or not, I can see where slow speed and gross weight would hinder the abillity to support troops. The aircraft were slower than the slicks they wer escorting, which could certainly affect troops on the ground waiting for reinforcements. Low gross weight would limit the amount of weapons that could be carried, which would affect support, especially if they ran out of weapons. Small quibble that could go either way, as this is more of a matter of interporetation by various sources. Your other points definitely need confirming one way or the other. -- [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 04:26, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

What exactly is the N209J?  A serial number for the 209 prototype?  That should be added to the Bell 209 section to clarify.  Thanks. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 20:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

:Per [[:Image:Bell_209.jpg|this image]], I'd say it's the US FAA registration number, though it appears under the canopy, not on the tail. Image is too dark as-is to see if the number's on the tail aslo. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 20:56, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
:* Thanks.  I wasn't expecting 209 to be in the number though. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 21:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

:I think putting the model number in the registration is a fairly common practice on experimental, prototype, and lead aircraft. Look at [[:Image:707x.jpg]] and [[:Image:Boeing 787 Roll-out.jpg]] for two examples from Boeing. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 22:45, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
:*And this, [[:Image:BA609 02.jpg]], is a more recent Bell example. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 22:48, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
::* Interesting.  Thanks!  The Bell 209 caption that mentions the reg number may need some tweaking.  I tried to mention it without a lot of wording. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 22:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
::Did I upset someone's apple cart by making changes to the prototype caption?   If so, let me know and I won't change anything.--[[User:The Founders Intent|<span style="color:green;">'''''T<small>HE</small> F<small>OUNDERS</small> I<small>NTENT </small>'''''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Founders Intent|''TALK'']]</sup> 18:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
::* No, just needed to understand what "N209J" was. Thanks. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 18:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
::It was the actual prototype as far as I know.--[[User:The Founders Intent|<span style="color:green;">'''''T<small>HE</small> F<small>OUNDERS</small> I<small>NTENT </small>'''''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Founders Intent|''TALK'']]</sup> 18:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

== Single engine pictures ==
{{cquote|We really need some good pics of the various single models, especially in US Army service. - BillCJ 23:28, 15 April 2007 (UTC)}}

Umm, there you go. Delete this section when you're done. --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 01:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

:Thanks lots! - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 01:36, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

:I've posted them to the AH-1 Cobra page on Wiki Commons so they'll be easy to find. I'm still considering which ones to add right away, but will add more as the article (hopefully) gets longer. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 01:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

:For some silly reason, after you preview changes, you still have to save them! Thanks, Born, for adding those pics to the Commons for me. I was in the process of trying again, and you had done it all. Thanks again. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 04:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
:* I wondered what happened with that. :)  The article already had a couple that are on the Commons page. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 05:05, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
::Bill, funny thing. You said you had posted them on the Commons so I went over to check them out and couldn't find them. I played around with it for a while and finally saved the mess I had been toying with and there were no edit conflicts. I figured there was another spot that I had missed where you had put them. <shrug> --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 05:27, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

:I've added a few more pics to the Commons that I found on other Wikis, and I've posted some pics to this article. I'm not really satisfied with the lead pic, so y'all feel free to play around with the pics. Born, thanks for labeling the pics you added, as I wasn't quite sure what models they were. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 05:41, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

::Check out [http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/bell/ah-1s.htm this site].--[[User:The Founders Intent|<span style="color:green;">'''''T<small>HE</small> F<small>OUNDERS</small> I<small>NTENT </small>'''''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Founders Intent|''TALK'']]</sup> 01:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

== Bell 249? ==
Is the Bell 249 their model number for some version of the AH-1, like the J (twin engine) model?  These Bell articles don't seem very clear on the Bell models numbers sometimes. Thanks. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 21:36, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

:If I remember correctly, it was a 4-bladed test version of the AH-1S. I'll try to run down a ref with correct info. - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 21:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

:Yup. From http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avcobra.html#m10:
::''During the 1980s, the original YAH-1S prototype was modified to become the "Model 249" demonstrator, with an uprated engine, a four-bladed rotor, and various experimental equipment fits, such as Hellfire missiles, for an updated Army Cobra. The various configurations of the Model 249 never resulted in a production order, but they did help demonstrate systems for various Cobra updates. One of the configurations of the Model 249 was the "PAH-2" Cobra for export, which had an advanced sensor package, a four-blade rotor, and armament of eight Euromissile HOT antitank missiles. As with the other Model 249 configurations, there were no buyers.''
::* Thanks!  I did internet searches with Bell 249.  Never thought about Model 249.  So in the end the 249 was a prototype/demonstrator.  Should it be listed in designation sequences?  As far as that goes, is there any need in the designation sequence for Bell products with the Bell product template below it? -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 00:33, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

:I did the search as "Bell Model 249", after "Bell 249" didn't bring anything relevant at the top of the search page. As to the sequnce list, probably not. That was there long before the templates were added, and no one has removed it as yet.  - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 00:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm removing the Bell part of the Designation sequence since there's a Bell template to cover that.  FYI: here is the sequence: 
'''Bell:'''  [[UH-1 Iroquois|205]] - [[Bell 206|206]] - [[Bell 207|207]] - '''209''' - [[UH-1 Iroquois|210]] - [[Bell 212|212]] - [[Bell 214|214]]  -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 03:21, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

== Pakistan and it's Ah-1s... ==
Just a couple of points.

The numbers are always incorrect so here is a article from AFM (April 2007)

(Copyrighted text removed - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 17:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC))

So there are no Iranian Ah-1's in Pakistani use and the numbers are 20 (minus attrition) plus the additional 20 (being delivered)  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Keysersoze25|Keysersoze25]] ([[User talk:Keysersoze25|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Keysersoze25|contribs]]) 10:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

* I guess AFM is AirForces Monthly magazine.  This web page [http://www.defence.pk/ah-1f_cobra.html Pakistan AH-1 Cobra] seems to cover this as well. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] 18:08, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

== Iranian AH-1s operational history ==
There is a statement in the operational history re use of Iranian ah-1's.
I am yet to see any actual proof of this from a non-partisan source.
If there is none I think it should be removed as there is none that i can find.  
I have checked into it and apparently the Iranian's assisted the Pakistani army (did not donate any aircraft). Also they used UH-1H's with mounted weapons and not the AH-1

<small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Keysersoze25|Keysersoze25]] ([[User talk:Keysersoze25|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Keysersoze25|contribs]]) 11:20, 24 October 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Would you please be more specific as to the statement? '''[[User:Akradecki|<span style="color:#62BB32;">AK<span style="color:#006400;">Radecki</span></span>]]'''[[User_talk:Akradecki|<sup style="color:#62BB32;">Speaketh</sup>]] 16:22, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

::The editor is making the case that the Pakistani AH-1s are not donated Iranian AH-1s, but apparently has no sources to support, "I have checked into it..." --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] ([[User talk:Born2flie|talk]]) 15:12, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

:::Global Security says Iran operates the AH-1. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/kerman.htm [[User:Proxy User|Proxy User]] ([[User talk:Proxy User|talk]]) 18:52, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
:::: Note that page says Iran has the AH-1J (AH-J International actually), which are covered in [[AH-1 SuperCobra]] per notes in this article. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] ([[User talk:Fnlayson|talk]]) 19:05, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

==Popular culture==
The "Joes" helicopters in the animated TV series G.I. Joe were AH-1 Cobras, though not called that. (I don;t remember if they ever were referred to by a name.)  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/208.100.250.88|208.100.250.88]] ([[User talk:208.100.250.88|talk]]) 08:55, 20 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Infobox image with AH-1 in flight ==

I looked on [http://www.defenseimagery.mil/index.html Defenseimagery.mil] for a flight AH-1 image to put in the Infobox here.  I searched on Army and AH-1 to get single engine Cobra images.  I like this one [[:Image:Army AH-1S 1985 crop.jpg]], but there are other good ones on that site.
: I'll make this change unless someone has a better flight image... -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] ([[User talk:Fnlayson|talk]]) 02:27, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

== Civilian user ==
The Sky Soldiers Demo team uses some AH-1Fs, an OH-6, UH-1s and other aircraft for performances.[http://www.armyav.org/demo_team.htm]  They are part of the Army Aviation Heritage Foundation, which would make them civilians most likely.  Should we list them like the Collings Foundation on the [[F-4 Phantom II|F-4]]? -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] ([[User talk:Fnlayson|talk]]) 21:55, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

:That's fine. I'm glad you know what they were, because the guy adding it sure didn't, and I didn't either! Thanks! - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] ([[User talk:BillCJ|talk]]) 22:02, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

:: I didn't know nothin' until I found their web site. ;) -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] ([[User talk:Fnlayson|talk]]) 22:06, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

==AH-1S/F==
Born, thanks for the corrections on the S/F, though technically they were AH-1S Mods when Isreal bought them, near as I can tell ;) Japan also uses the S Mod, but did not rename them to F; I don't know if Israel renamed their or not.

I'd love to have a long talk talk with the genius who decided that the world's most ubiquitous helicopter (until the H-60 at least) should share a designation series with the world's first and most prolific attack helicopter. I understand that the 209 had a lot in common with the Huey, and it made sense to assign it to AH-1G originally (actually it was going to be UH-1H at first), but someone should have given it a new H-# soon after (would have probably been the H-57/58/59). Now we have the silliness of the first Army Cobra being a G, and the last being an F! But now with the H-1 Upgrade, the UH-1Y and AH-1Z have about 70% commonality, so sharing the same series makes sense even now, except the Marines have just used up all the empty letters! So what's next? AH-1A and UH-1G? Then you have the TH-57 and OH-58 series being basically the same aircraft, especially compared to the Huey and Cobra! Oh well, thanks for keeping me straight on which is which. One question: how do you tell the G, Q, R ,amd S apart then? - [[User:BillCJ|BillCJ]] 06:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

:Bill, I'm currently reworking the Variants section to clarify that mess a little bit more. I use two basic sources. Greg Goebel's [http://www.vectorsite.net/avcobra.html AH-1 page] on his Vectorsite.net and the Army's [http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/aahist2.htm#AH1G TACOM R-I] page on Historical Army Helicopters and armament subsystems. 

:*AH-1G, round canopy, no sight on the nose, no TOW subsystem
:*AH-1Q, round canopy, sight on nose, straight exhaust
:*AH-1S, round canopy, sight on nose, scoop exhaust
:*AH-1P, flat-plate canopy, dual gun turret
:*AH-1E, flat-plate canopy, three-barrel 20mm, scoop exhaust, no rocket subsystem (Oops! --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 04:29, 21 April 2007 (UTC))
:*AH-1F, flat-plate canopy, three-barrel 20mm, straight exhaust, IRCM mount above exhaust, WSPS, bulb on front of forward cowling, ADS on right side of aircraft.

:Once you know where to look, it gets easier. --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 07:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

:Needs work, I'll have to tweak it later. --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 07:28, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

:You know that flat canopy was later determined to increase the visibility of the Cobra due to glint?--[[User:The Founders Intent|<span style="color:green;">'''''T<small>HE</small> F<small>OUNDERS</small> I<small>NTENT </small>'''''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Founders Intent|''TALK'']]</sup> 01:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
::TFI, the same thing with the flat-plate windshield on the OH-58C. The shark-nose OH-58D is another good idea gone wrong. --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] ([[User talk:Born2flie|talk]]) 13:34, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
:: A couple sources of mine say the curved panels caused glint?? -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] ([[User talk:Fnlayson|talk]]) 13:47, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

== Retirement ==
U.S. Army retirement of the AH-1 Cobra on active duty occurred in 1999 at Wheeler Army Airfield, Hawaii.[http://www.incolor.com/iceman/public.htm] --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] ([[User talk:Born2flie|talk]]) 14:53, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
* Is that an FYI or did you want that added somehow?  The 1999 active and 2001 reserves retirement dates are mentioned near the bottom of the Operational history section now (covered by reference 2). -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] ([[User talk:Fnlayson|talk]]) 15:03, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

::FYI mostly, but I've seen a couple sources for the Hawaii retirement. --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] ([[User talk:Born2flie|talk]]) 15:17, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
::* That would be good to have in there. [[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] ([[User talk:Fnlayson|talk]]) 15:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Are we sure about the 2001 retirement date?  My state's National Guard operated cobras until 2005.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.184.216.64|70.184.216.64]] ([[User talk:70.184.216.64|talk]]) 20:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:USAR vs. ARNG? --[[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] ([[User talk:Born2flie|talk]]) 14:34, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

==Assessment comment==
{{Substituted comment|length=753|lastedit=20100610054353|comment=I think this article lacks a lot of focus. Trying to conform to the WP:Air page content guidelines could solve that. There are a lot of good images, information and specifications to work with, but there is a serious lack of citing of sources other than wiki links. The development section seems to be coming along well, but the significant events of a history section about the aircraft's performance in operations is pretty much absent.([[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 05:00, 7 October 2006 (UTC))

{{nw=}}{{nw=}} November 2007 {{nw=}}{{nw=}}
Article is in much better shape.  More references in first part of the Development section, along with most of the Variants and Operators sections. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] ([[User talk:Fnlayson|talk]]) 15:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)}}
Substituted at 14:21, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

== Merger proposal ==
{{Discussion top|Closed as merge  - [[User:The Bushranger|The Bushranger]]  01:20, 15 December 2010 (UTC) }}
I believe that [[Bell-Bristol Aerospace Hokum-X]], a one-paragraph, poorly-referenced stub, should probably be merged into this article, as the aircraft in question was a modified AH-1S. - [[User:The Bushranger|The Bushranger]] <sub>[[User talk:The Bushranger|Return fire]]</sub><small><sup>[[User:The Bushranger/Pages Created|''Flank speed'']]</sup></small> 04:05, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

:Merge!  There is nothing here which merits a separate article. [[User:Komowkwa|Komowkwa]] ([[User talk:Komowkwa|talk]]) 14:03, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

:'''Merge''' away.  Looks like it should be listed as QAH-1S in the Variants section. -[[User:Fnlayson|fnlayson]] ([[User talk:Fnlayson|talk]]) 19:48, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
{{Discussion bottom}}

== Iran ==
How come Iran isnt listed as a current or former operator of the AH-1?  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wims|Wims]] ([[User talk:Wims|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Wims|contribs]]) 15:06, 2 September 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Because this page covers the single-engined variants, Iran used the twin-engine AH-1J International, which is covered at [[Bell AH-1 SuperCobra]]. - [[User:BilCat|BilCat]] ([[User talk:BilCat|talk]]) 16:29, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

: And see the multiple notes that say "For AH-1J, AH-1T, AH-1W, and AH-1Z, see [[Bell AH-1 SuperCobra]]".  -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] ([[User talk:Fnlayson|talk]]) 17:34, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

== Huey Operation ==
Between 1969 and 1971 I recall as an Air Force Technician I served as a aircraft electrician. Between 1970 and 1971 while stationed in Thailand I serviced the Huey and 2 two other choppers to aid troops in Vietnam and Laos. Why do you not report that in the description of these aircraft? Sometimes my partners were detailed to deploy to recover injured choppers in the war zone flying on these choppers. Why are you leaving the US Air Force out the picture?  <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/97.93.202.19|97.93.202.19]] ([[User talk:97.93.202.19|talk]]) 21:30, 5 March 2015 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:By Huey do you mean the UH-1 Huey that can carry passengers? Those are covered at [[Bell UH-1 Iroquois]]. This article is about the two-seat AH-1 gunships, which to my knowledge the USAF never formally operated. - [[User:BilCat|BilCat]] ([[User talk:BilCat|talk]]) 03:07, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

== TH-1G? ==
The only reference I found for a TH-1G was [http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/bell/th-1g.htm here]. On this [http://www.driko.org/usdes_t.html site], I found a reference to a TH-1S circa 1970. Using the DoD references as shared on this [http://www.designation-systems.net/ site], I could only find a [http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/412015l_0504/p412015l.pdf reference] to a TAH-1S for the purpose of instructing AH-64 pilots.

Not quite sure this meets the definition of a variant, either. Still, I think it needs more research if it is to be included in the variants list to establish what the designation was. My bet would be on the TAH-1S as there are also references to TH-1s that are UH-1 variants. ([[User:Born2flie|Born2flie]] 01:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC))

:The TH-1G/TH-1S (sometimes refered to as the Cadillac, only deployed at Ft Rucker, AL) has a hydraulic assist on the front Cyclic (short joystick type) to give it a 3.2 to 1 ratio increase which allows the IP in the front seat to have the same mechanical leverage as the full size cyclic in the rear seat. This and some armament override switches in the front cockpit are the only real differences from the AH-1S. (Which all the newer Cobras were - AH-1S(MOD), AH-1S(PROD), AH-1S(ECAS) and AH-1S(FMC), these were later changed). [[User:Excobrapilot|Excobrapilot]] 15:06, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

:Check out [http://cactusairforce.com/aircraftinventory.html this].--[[User:The Founders Intent|<span style="color:green;">'''''T<small>HE</small> F<small>OUNDERS</small> I<small>NTENT </small>'''''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:The Founders Intent|''TALK'']]</sup> 20:35, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

The dual-control trainer part is supported by Donald ''The Complete Encyclopedia of World Aircraft'' book (see [http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/bell_ah-1.php link] for text).  But this detailed part "The principal difference was addition of hydraulically boosted controls in front cockpit to equalize mechanical advantage with rear cockpit." is not in any source I have or anything I can find. If you have a source for it, readd and cite it. Thanks. -[[User:Fnlayson|Fnlayson]] ([[User talk:Fnlayson|talk]]) 19:45, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

:The TH-1G designation can be found in the 1974 version of DoD 4120.15-L.  This document used to be on DesignationSystems.net, but is not longer available.  Both the 1998 and 2004 versions do not have this designation, but instead have the TAH-1S designation.  I believe that TH-1S in inaccurate, and should technically be TAH-1S, while TH-1G is also valid. -- [[User:Thatguy96|Thatguy96]] ([[User talk:Thatguy96|talk]]) 03:53, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

::Re the above statement: "The TH-1G/TH-1S (sometimes refered (sic) to as the Cadillac, only deployed at Ft Rucker, AL)..." Incorrect, there was at least one TH-1G stationed at Godman Army Airfield, Ft. Knox, KY during the 1973-1975 time period. It was operated by the 7-1 Cavalry (Air) of the 194th Armored Brigade. [[User:CobraDragoon|CobraDragoon]] ([[User talk:CobraDragoon|talk]]) 23:14, 7 March 2016 (UTC)