View source for Talk:Free Negro

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==Definition==
A '''Free Negro''' was a non-citizen who lived in the [[United States]] prior to [[1870]].  Some Free Negroes were former slaves, usually called "Freedmen."  Other Free Negroes were the offspring of former slaves;  who were free since birth.  If a slave bore a child, the child was also a slave; if a Free Negro bore a child, the child was a Free Negro ('''but not a citizen of the United States'''). In general, Free Negroes did not pay taxes, vote, or own land. Many Free Negroes lived by toiling at work which was physically demanding, while Americans paid taxes, voted, and owned land. Typically, Free Negroes paid rent or lived in poorhouses.  [[User:Superslum|Superslum]] 20:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)  

==History of Freeman and Freedman==  
* {{NIE}}  

:In the most general acceptance of these terms, the first implies one who has inherited the full privileges and immunities of citizenship;  the second, one who has been delivered from the restraints of bondage, but who, usually is not placed in a position of full social or even political equality with one who was born free.  

:With the [[Ancient Rome|Romans]] the equivalent for freeman (''liber homo'') comprehended all classes of those who were not slaves; but the distinction was preserved by the application of the term ''ingenuus'' to him who was born free, and of ''libertinus'' to him who, being born in servitude, was emancipated.  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_International_Encyclopedia  ]  

:The idea of a freeman was by no means peculiar to the Roman or Romanized population of [[Europe]]; on the contrary, it belonged to the constitution of society in all the [[Indo&#45;European|Indo&#45;Germanic]] nations.  Among those branches of them commonly known as [[Teutonic]], it was generally based on the possession of some portion of the soil.  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_International_Encyclopedia  ]  

:Thus in [[History of Anglo&#45;Saxon England|Anglo&#45;Saxon]] [[England]] "the freeman was strictly the [[Landowner|freeholder]], and the exercise of his full rights as a free member of the community to which he belonged became inseparable from the possession of his holding in it."  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_International_Encyclopedia  ]  [[User:Superslum|Superslum]] 20:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)  

The Free Negro and the Freeman in the United States lived amongst [[Landowner|land&#45;owners]] who were Americans because of their ownership of land.  Land-owners exercised their full rights as free members of the community to which they belonged (as in England).  Free Negroes did not own land, therefore, '''they were not citizens.'''  [[User:Superslum|Superslum]] 20:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)  

757,208 Negroes (mostly slaves) were counted in the first census of the [[United States]] in [[1790]].  The number accounted for 19.3% of the total population.  (An estimation made by me,  is that the number of free Negroes was roughly 30,000 in 1790).  The number of land-owners amongst them was approximately zero, therefore, the numbers of citizens amongst them was approximately zero.  [[User:Superslum|Superslum]] 20:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)  

==Legal standing==  
'''Free Negroes''' were '''''legally''''' called Free Negroes.  Mulattoes were a type of Free Negro that appeared on '''''legal documents''''' in some of the States of the [[United States]].  Slaves, also, appeared on '''''legal documents'''''.  

'''''Legal documents''''' are a part of the history of the [[United States]], therefore, they cannot be made to vanish into thin air simply by changing '''Free Negroes''' into "free blacks."  Who are the odd people who insist on describing '''Free Negroes''' inaccurately, stupidly,  and casually?   [[User:Superslum|Superslum]] 20:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

== Merger proposed (Cyprian Ricard) ==

{{Discussion top}}
The result was: '''Merge'''. I have merged the text and will propose [[Cyprian Ricard]] for deletion. --[[User:B. Wolterding|B. Wolterding]] 15:40, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
----
I propose to merge the content of [[Cyprian Ricard]] into here. While the content in that article is verifiable against multiple sources, all sources mention him in just one or two sentences, which does not suffice to write a biography. Still, as an example of a freedman who himself owned slaves, the information might be included here. 

Please add your comments below. Proposed as part of the [[WP:WPNN|Notability wikiproject]]. --[[User:B. Wolterding|B. Wolterding]] 10:05, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

:Sounds like a good idea. If we ever find a biography for this guy with notable historical information we can always recreate the article. However, can we make sure that his page doesn't end up redirecting to "free negro" that would be weird. [[User:Futurebird|futurebird]] 13:25, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

:: Sure, the redirect can be avoided. --[[User:B. Wolterding|B. Wolterding]] 15:47, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

{{Discussion bottom}}

== merge:[[Free Negro]] →  [[Free people of color]] ==

{{Discussion top|1='''No consensus''' as per [[Talk:Free people of color]]. -- [[User:P199|<b style="color:#199199;">P&nbsp;1&nbsp;9&nbsp;9</b>]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;<small>[[User talk:P199|TALK]]</small> 18:23, 12 August 2011 (UTC)}}
most of the content of this article is pretty much covered in the much more developed proposed target. --[[User talk:emerson7|emerson7]] 21:34, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
{{discussion bottom}}

== Merge "Free Negro" and "Free People of Color" ==

I propose that these two sections be merged. It appears that the Free negro article focuses mostly on blacks in America, while the Free people of color article includes information about blacks both in and outside of the US. I propose that these two articles be merged under one name (which name is open for discussion), and have separate subheadings for free blacks in America and free blacks outside of the US.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Howel2468|Howel2468]] ([[User talk:Howel2468|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Howel2468|contribs]]) 23:15, 6 November 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:I completely support the merge (into a "Free black" article). The two articles essentially cover the same topic. [[User:MB298|MB298]] ([[User talk:MB298|talk]]) 21:43, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
::These two should absolutely be merged.  The first line of this here article speaks of "free blacks"... and this is a specific technical term used by South African sources to refer to South African free blacks.  How would academic references discussing "free blacks" not be included in an article that defines itself as being about "free blacks."? [[User:XavierItzm|XavierItzm]] ([[User talk:XavierItzm|talk]]) 21:18, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

== Major Article Revision ==

I am doing a major revision to this article. I am adding subsections that were not previously there and i am adding much more detail. I have greatly expanded the section on notable free blacks because it was missing some of the most famous examples, i.e. Frederick Douglass and Sojourner Truth.  I have taken out some information that was poorly organized and restructured the information that was there to reflect a more chronological history.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Howel2468|Howel2468]] ([[User talk:Howel2468|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Howel2468|contribs]]) 21:59, 26 November 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Notable free Negroes==
*Deleted Elizabeth Freeman, as she was a slave when she challenged the state.[[User:Parkwells|Parkwells]] ([[User talk:Parkwells|talk]]) 18:53, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

==Reorganization==
The sections are hard to follow, as the history appears in one place, then historical sections are added that refer to earlier periods. I found it difficult to follow. Perhaps it should all be organized chronologically - at least put discussions about culture and social issues before the Civil War before sections that deal with society in the North and South after the war.[[User:Parkwells|Parkwells]] ([[User talk:Parkwells|talk]]) 18:53, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

== Critique ==

Throughout the article, especially in the Introduction and Background, there are very few sources cited. Entire paragraphs with information relevant to the topic are placed in with no sourcing. "The southern colonies imported more slaves, initially from English colonies in the West Indies." is one such example. Those that are sourced with links (not book excerpts), do have working links and are reliable sources for the most part. The one glaring exception I found to this was a citation to a web archive of "slaveryinamerica.org", which has its own bibliography and explanations, with no citations. Though the article has that issue, there doesn't seem to be any plagiarism or close paraphrasing from the sources cited. The sources cited do not seem to have any specific bias, and all information is relevant to the topic, albeit a bit disorganized.--[[User:Hahmad1996|Hahmad1996]] ([[User talk:Hahmad1996|talk]]) 04:26, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

== Changed "Thirteen" to "European" ==

I made this change because using thirteen makes this a U.S. centric article and perpetuates a perception that simply did not exist in the colonial era. New Sweden had slaves as did New Amersterdam along with the other British colonies that did not join the revolution.<br>
http://slavenorth.com/delaware.htm<br>
http://www.womenhistoryblog.com/2008/02/slavery-in-new-amsterdam.html<br>
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_hist.htm<br>
[[User:Bemcfarland|Bemcfarland]] ([[User talk:Bemcfarland|talk]]) 13:59, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

== Article Scope ==
Is this article about a legal term in use in British North America (it states this) or is it about United States history and free people of African or other non-white ancestry? The introductory paragraph needs revision to move in one direction or the other.[[User:Bemcfarland|Bemcfarland]] ([[User talk:Bemcfarland|talk]]) 14:05, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

== Baltimore to Philadelphia example ==

Before the Civil War, free negroes in the United States South needed "free papers" to travel to the northern states according to [[Frederick Douglass]] in ''[[My Bondage and My Freedom]]''. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/My_Bondage_and_My_Freedom_(1855)/Chapter_XXI

Removing this basic fact seems [[Obscurantism|obscurantist]]. --[[User:14Jenna7Caesura|14Jenna7Caesura]] ([[User talk:14Jenna7Caesura|talk]]) 00:02, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
:Thanks for taking this to talk. Since they needed free papers even for travelling within their native state, I don't see the relevance of your addition. Why you should call my action "obscurantist" remains, well, obscure to me. --[[User:Rsk6400|Rsk6400]] ([[User talk:Rsk6400|talk]]) 07:59, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

== We should rename this ==

This term is considered very insulting by African-Americans. I know many who find Negro a more inappropriate term than N-----. This is about a historical status that was actually called many things. We should name it with a term people do not find offensive.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 03:07, 14 May 2024 (UTC)