View source for Talk:Hiram Wesley Evans

{{ArticleHistory
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|action1date=06:45, 27 April 2012
|action1link=Talk:Hiram Wesley Evans/GA1
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|action2=PR
|action2date=03:21, 9 October 2012
|action2link=Wikipedia:Peer review/Hiram Wesley Evans/archive1
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|action3=FAC
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|dykdate=22 February 2008
|dykentry=...that '''[[Hiram Wesley Evans]]''' ''(pictured)'', the second Imperial Wizard of the "second" [[Ku Klux Klan]], boasted of having helped re-elect [[Calvin Coolidge]] as [[President of the United States|U.S. President]]?
|views=10964
|topic=socsci
|currentstatus=FA
|maindate=June 24, 2013
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|otd1date=2023-09-26|otd1oldid=1177119459
|otd2date=2024-09-26|otd2oldid=1247867044
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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=FA|vital=yes|living=no|listas=Evans, Hiram Wesley|1=
{{WikiProject Alabama}}
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{{WikiProject Secret Societies|importance=mid}}
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==Source==
The source of this wikipedia entry is "Temperance Movement Groups and Leaders in the U.S.," from which the material in bold was taken. Omission of this source reference has now been corrected.[[User:David Justin|David Justin]] 15:13, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

'''Hiram Wesley Evans''' ([[1881]]&ndash;[[1966]]) '''was [[Imperial Wizard]] of the "second" [[Ku Klux Klan]] from 1922 until 1939.''' 

'''The second Klan, often called the KKK of the 1920s, was established by''' failed '''minister''' of the '''Methodist''' Episcopal Church, South '''and [[William J. Simmons]] in 1915 on [[Stone Mountain]] near Atlanta, Georgia. The first KKK (1865-1869) existed to oppose [[Reconstruction]] and maintain white control over former slaves in the regions of the former [[Confederate States of America]].''' 

'''The second Klan was also anti-[[African American]], but it had a much wider agenda''' than the first. A '''nativist group''', it '''was anti-Catholic]], [[anti-Semitic]], anti-[[immigrant]], anti-labor union''', and [[anti-socialist]]. '''It was also supportive of the [[temperance movement]] and alcohol [[prohibition]], which it pledged to enforce.''' 

Evans was a [[32nd degree]] [[Freemasonry|Mason]] who boasted of having helped re-elect Coolidge, of having secured passage of strict anti-immigration laws and of having checked the ambitions of Catholics and others intent on "perverting" the nation. 

'''Evans' books include ''[[The Menace of Modern Immigration]]'' (1923), ''The Klan of Tomorrow'' (1924), ''Alienism in the Democracy'' (1927) ''The Rising Storm'' (1929), and ''The Klan Fights for Americanism.'' Evans' writing ended as the fortunes of the Klan faltered and then imploded by 1930.'''

Evans later betrayed the rest of the KKK members when, in 1939, he sold the clan's mailing list, thereby revealing all members of the KKK.{{Fact|date=March 2007}}
Sources
*{{Handbook of Texas|id=fev17|name=Hiram Wesley Evans}}
*'''Alexander, Charles C. ''The Ku Klux Klan in the Southwest''. Lexington: University of Kentucky Press, 1965.'''

== Sourcing per Wikipedia policy ==

Per [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam/2008 Archive Aug 1#About 400 links to the two sites of one individual]], links to blacklisted commercial personal webpages not meeting the criteria as a [[WP:RS|reliable source]] have been removed. [[User:Flowanda|Flowanda]] | [[User talk:Flowanda|Talk]] 06:03, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

{{Talk:Hiram Wesley Evans/GA1}}

==Status as featured article==
This should not be a featured article. The KKK should receive NO positive publicity. [[User:Sun Adder|Sun Adder]] ([[User talk:Sun Adder|talk]]) 01:24, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
: Not part of [[WP:FA?|the criteria]].&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 01:45, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:: I don't think this is really "positive publicity" for the Klan. And I really doubt anyone is going to join a white supremacist movement because this is a featured article. [[User:Mark Arsten|Mark Arsten]] ([[User talk:Mark Arsten|talk]]) 03:56, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
::: I'm not so sure it's '''"positive publicity"''' in that the man -- indeed the entire glut of KKK membership -- look like clowns in their amusingly freakish attire, and the article text covers significant aspects of infighting among the Christian extremists that comprised the historic KKK which is the same phenomena we see among the contemporary KKK, Aryan Nations, Christian Identity, National Vanguard, Stormfront, all the usual unsalted nuts that share the same core ideologies. From an historic context, featuring the odd Christian member assists in ensuring the overwhelming distain for such ideologies held by the vast majority of world citizens. If anything, an occasional reminder of how the religious apply their right wing ideologies -- from the KKK to Nazi Germany and the Jewish Hollocaust -- is a good thing. [[User:Damotclese|Damotclese]] ([[User talk:Damotclese|talk]]) 15:36, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
: I must concur that the fact that this is a featured article is typical of the American posters who propagate their cultural racist swill to the rest of us English speakers. We do not need this. We do not care for the ugly aspect of American culture that never goes away. Good on you, that you have this as a featured article, but it only affirms an American bias and decidely ugly one that dominates the english wikipedia site. If we must endure this swill for one day, then so be it, but the fact that this is vote as an article tells me all I need to know about who moderates this place. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Xamalek|Xamalek]] ([[User talk:Xamalek|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Xamalek|contribs]]) at 05:28, 24 June 2013‎ (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
::I very much doubt [[User:Mark Arsten|the primary author]] of this article seeks to glorify racism. I think he just likes to write about strange topics. He also stated this in [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2012-08-27/Featured content|an interview]] with the Signpost a while back, in which he talked at length about keeping an [[WP:NPOV|NPOV]]. As for the people who 'moderate this place', they tend to come from all over the globe. Cheers, <span style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Face|theFace]]</span> 11:54, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:: Making something a Featured Article doesn't indicate endorsement for its subject. If you actually read the article it has a fairly NPOV tone. [[User:Brutannica|Brutannica]] ([[User talk:Brutannica|talk]]) 15:50, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

== Better review needed ==
I am concerned about the quality of the review of this article at FAC and the research that went in to the article; see a sampling of my concerns posted to [[WP:ERRORS]], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Main_Page/Errors&diff=561306974&oldid=561306572 here.]  It should not be so easy to find these kinds of issues in just a few moments. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy<span style="color:green;">Georgia</span>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 04:04, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
*Both have been addressed, I believe.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 04:08, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

*Mark, I don't see anything about "lowering wages" in McVeigh 69.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 04:22, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
**Looks to be on page 68, changed.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 04:52, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
*McVeigh 157 - The author gives a bit more context. I think the printing press' mention here is undue, as there were numerous other aspects emphasised.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 04:50, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
*Dobratz et al. only support background checks (but doesn't mention why). Wade supports much of the rest of the sentence, but does not connect background checks with violence.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 04:59, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

== Dentist at the age of 19? ==

Did he really achieve his dentist license at the age of 19? Just seems too young for it... [[User:A.amitkumar|Amit]] ([[User talk:A.amitkumar|talk]]) 15:32, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
*"Questionable credentials" mentioned in the text.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 15:53, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:: I did not understand your response but to clarify my comment - the article mentions he was born in September 1881 and received his dentist license in 1900 which would make him 18 or perhaps 19 at that time if he received his license after September 1900. [[User:A.amitkumar|Amit]] ([[User talk:A.amitkumar|talk]]) 16:10, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:::That is strange, but it's a well-sourced claim [http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fev17]. [[User:Mark Arsten|Mark Arsten]] ([[User talk:Mark Arsten|talk]]) 16:15, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:::[http://books.google.com/books/about/The_First_Hundred_Years.html?id=xyRqAAAAMAAJ This book] and [http://books.google.com/books/about/The_centennial_of_dental_education_in_Te.html?id=FRVqAAAAMAAJ this book] could probably explain the licensing and education requirements at that time. I can't seem to access them though. [[User:Mark Arsten|Mark Arsten]] ([[User talk:Mark Arsten|talk]]) 16:25, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

== Is this article about Evans or the KKK? ==

There seems to be some confusion in the headings about the focus of this article. The article is supposed to be about Evens but many of the headings refer to the KKK rather than him:

*Internal conflicts - they are not Evans internal conflicts but the KKKs.
*Growth and political activism - his growth or the KKKs?
*Decline - again it talks about the KKKs decline - not Evans's.
*Downfall - is that his downfall or that of the KKK? And shouldn't his death get a mention in the heading.

Do others agree that these headings are confusing? <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Richerman|<span style="color:green;">Richerman</span>'']]</span>   [[User talk:Richerman|'''(talk)''']] 16:01, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
*His reason for notability, and thus his biography as covered in sources, is inherently related to the development of the KKK under his leadership. He received little to no interest either before or after joining the Klan; all of the literature is about him and his role in the Klan. Thus it's only natural that the Klan and Evans' vision for it should be dominant in the article.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]]) 16:05, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
*I'm open to suggestions as far as headings go, I'm not married to these. [[User:Mark Arsten|Mark Arsten]] ([[User talk:Mark Arsten|talk]]) 16:16, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


It's not the content I'm concerned about it's the headings. How about:

*Internal conflicts under Evans' tenure
*Klan growth and political activism
*Decline of the Klan
and a seperated heading for his death. And couldn't that be expanded a little with what he died of? <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Richerman|<span style="color:green;">Richerman</span>'']]</span>   [[User talk:Richerman|'''(talk)''']] 16:27, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:Ok, I've changed the headers. I don't recall being able to find his cause of death, but I can look again. [[User:Mark Arsten|Mark Arsten]] ([[User talk:Mark Arsten|talk]]) 17:08, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
::OK thanks. I can't find anything online. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Richerman|<span style="color:green;">Richerman</span>'']]</span>   [[User talk:Richerman|'''(talk)''']] 17:34, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:::Yeah, that was kind of a frustrating part of writing this. There was a TON of stuff about most of his life, but Crisco and I really had to work to fill in the details when he was out of the spotlight. [[User:Mark Arsten|Mark Arsten]] ([[User talk:Mark Arsten|talk]]) 17:37, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
::::I couldn't even find a decent obituary. Perhaps the newspapers thought he was best forgotten. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:Richerman|<span style="color:green;">Richerman</span>'']]</span>   [[User talk:Richerman|'''(talk)''']] 17:55, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
== "[[:Hiram Wesley Evans and travel at your own risk]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hiram_Wesley_Evans_and_travel_at_your_own_risk&redirect=no Hiram Wesley Evans and travel at your own risk]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 May 3#Hiram Wesley Evans and travel at your own risk}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> <span style="color:green">[[User:ThadeusOfNazereth|ThadeusOfNazereth]](he/him)<sup>[[User talk:ThadeusOfNazereth|Talk to Me!]]</sup></span> 16:47, 3 May 2023 (UTC)