View source for Talk:Shōchū

{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|
{{WikiProject Japan|importance=High|drink=y}}
{{WikiProject Spirits|importance=Low}}
}}

== Brands? ==

What are the major brands of Shochu?

--

According to the [http://www.tdb.co.jp Teikoku Data Bank], the top 3 in sales are:
1) iichiko
2) kanoka
3) iitomo

Otherwise I dont know, but for otsu shochu, I see Tominohouzan everywhere, and its pretty good.  Esp. their zenryokoji. [[User:Naerhu|Naerhu]] 08:41, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

2006 sales of shochu, according to the [http://mainichi.jp/life/food/news/20070928ddp008020004000c.html Mainichi]
1)Iichiko (mugi)
2)Tantakatan (shiso)
3)Shiranami　(imo)
[[User:Myhomeuphere|Myhomeuphere]] 04:27, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

== Gold leaf in Shochu ==

I have a bottle of Shochu complete with about 30 small pieces of what looks like gold leaf floating inside.
The bottle is branded 'Hakusui' and was a gift. Does anyone have information on the history and benefits of gold in Shochu?

---

:Shochu and sake which are given as gives often contain a small amount of gold leaf, as you describe.  It's added to confer a feeling of luxury or a sense of celebration to the gift.  Gold in metallic form cannot be metabolised by the body so the health benefits are likely to be minimal. <sup>[User?]</sup>
:Sorry to burst your bubbles, but things like these are better on user pages. Also, who are you guys? <b><span style="color:blue;">Maccore</span> <span style="color:orange;">Henni</span></b> <sub>[[User:Mac_Henni|Mii!]] [[User_Talk:Mac_Henni|Pictochat Mii!]]</sub> 20:40, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

== Origins and distinctions ==

Shochu is the Japanese version of soju, a drink that originated in Korea.  Should mention of this be made here?  It is stated in the article for soju.  Also, in the article for the Chinese version of shochu, it is said that the Chinese drink has a distinct flavor that is similar to, but different from both soju and shochu.  Perhaps it is misleading to simply call it the Chinese version of shochu?

I do not know what think Koreans, but Japanese are not sure that where came from "Shochu". Usually they say, it come from Thailand, China, or China through Korea. (It is interesting that Japanese think that something new has come from not Korea, but China.) So it is not clear shochu is the Japanese version of soju. I think it was common drink in East-Asia. [[User:86.101.91.207|86.101.91.207]] 12:58, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

It is thought that the distillation technology of Japan was transmitted from Thailand or Chosun in the 15th century. It is thought that Chosun was transmitted from China. The modern distillation method of a shochu was developed in England. Moreover, the bacterium that the Japanese developed at 1923 is used in Maccori(An accurate spelling is uncertain) of South Korea now. The name of shochu comes out in the record of Japan in 1559.  When has the name of soju been used in Chosun? Please teach the document. --[[User:Opp2|Opp2]] 01:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Soju did not originate from Korea or from Japan. It is known to have its first roots in Persia then made its way to East Asia via Mongolia with its opening up to Islamic culture (ironical because Islam prohibits alcohol). It is known in Arabic as "arag" and was known in Mongolian as araki [亞刺吉]. In Manchu, it is known as "alki" and the Korean term 'soju' is a relatively new word to be used. In some parts of North Korea soju is often referred to as "아락주"/"arakju", the more 'traditional' word of "소주"(soju). --[[User:DandanxD|DandanxD]] 02:11, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


Hello, Cypoet. Re your edits at [[Shōchū]]. We are only editors here, not authorities. We don't change sourced material to what we "know" to be true without providing a source to back that up. Please provide sources for your edits and changes. You might want to read [[Wikipedia:No original research]] and [[Wikipedia:Verifiability]]. Regards. [[User:Dekkappai|Dekkappai]] ([[User talk:Dekkappai|talk]]) 21:07, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

@Dekkappai: the source that was previously given is hardly "trustable" being from a webpage with little authority on the history of korea. The source is changed to http://www.tomcoyner.com/moving_beyond_the_green_blur.htm which outlines an article written in a korean newspaper about the origin of soju. This seems more suited. Again, the korean soju does not originate from China, but from Mongolia which gathered the distillation technique from Persia. Some North Koreans today and especially the [[Jurchens]]/[[Manchus]]/[[Koreans]]/[[Japanese]] in the past call soju by its persian name origin (Arak-ju), showing the migration path which is backed by archeological data and korean history books. Soju/Shoju is the  sino-korean/sino-japanese pronunciation of the chinese characters which replaced the original pronunciation --[[User:Cypoet|Cypoet]] ([[User talk:Cypoet|talk]]) 13:28, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

:I read http://www.tomcoyner.com/moving_beyond_the_green_blur.htm , but it does not say Shochu came from Korea. The source is mostly about Korean Soju, and unrelated to Shochu.--[[User:Mochi|Mochi]] ([[User talk:Mochi|talk]]) 13:17, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Cypoet's new citation http://www.theshochu.com/distillers.html says, Iki is the first place where barley shochu (mugi shochu) was produced. It does not say "from Korea", and the citation is surely misleading.--[[User:Mochi|Mochi]] ([[User talk:Mochi|talk]]) 07:08, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone have ''good'' citations for this? Soju is so characteristically Korean, hearing about Japanese traditional 'shoju' is like hearing about German traditional 'tuhkeela'. Or Japanese 'geemchee'...or Korean 'sahkee' for that matter.  [[Special:Contributions/72.194.217.222|72.194.217.222]] ([[User talk:72.194.217.222|talk]]) 05:55, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Etymology. Chinese 燒酒 ''shaojiu'' means "burned liquor".. same in Korean. Japanese kanji 焼酎.  The "焼" character means "to burn" yes? Why is the naming and pronunciation so similar to these nations? Its clearly a evidence of cultural exchange! If the distillation technique came from Thailand.. it would have been called similar to the Thai naming of arak เหล้าชนิดหนึ่งในประเทศมุสลิม witch translates to "a type of alcohol in Muslim countries". If you introduce a new thing to a group of people, they usually take the name from with it came from.. so why is the word, meaning of the word and pronunciation similar to Chinese and Korean and not Thai? It should be mentioned that its is a possibility that it came through China and Korea as well. - [[User:Fniss|Fniss]] ([[User talk:Fniss|talk]]) 14:34, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

==Rewrite==

I have spent almost two weeks rewriting and expanding this article.

The new version has a snappier introduction, which I feel is important.  It combines all the major points of the original article, along with my translation of almost all of the Japanese article, which I believe is more structured and informative than the prior English version.  It has many interesting cultural highlights which I have preserved, and in some cases expanded upon.  I have also added a couple of illustrative photos.

Whilst translating and reworking, I have researched extensively on the Internet and added several references.  These are English where I was able to find sources, but many interesting items are only available in Japanese, particularly for more technical points.  All errors in translation or understanding are my own, much of the Japanese is technical and difficult to translate -- I welcome corrections and improvements.  Whilst researching I discovered a handful of points which differed from the Japanese Wikipedia's claims.  Since they are my sources and referenced, I have favoured their facts over those of the Japanese article; such details are few and minor but should not be mistaken for errors in translation.  Also, in the interests of coherence and readability in English, I have been liberal and not stuck to the structure of the Japanese article, though the influence should be apparent.

Towards the end I noticed my drafts had become a mishmash of American and English spellings.  My natural bias is English so I unilaterally converted the rest to English.  I have no objection to spelling being reverted to the American form should someone feel strongly and do a complete rather than partial conversion.

Also, please expand and add more references where appropriate!  Most unreferenced paragraphs originate in the Japanese article; I intend to continue to update when I find appropriate references.  Any photos relating to the shochu production process would be particularly welcome, as would any '''referenced''' expansion of the History section.

I hope readers find the new article interesting, and get as much out of it as I did researching it.  I humbly submit it is now amongst the better articles on alcoholic beverages in the English Wikipedia and an improvement on what was here before.

[[User:Akihabara|Akihabara]] 14:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
:For the time being, I have changed the assessment to mid-importance and the article class to B (this relates more to your comments at [[WP:Japan]] than here). Good work on the article. (^^) [[User:Dekimasu|Dekimasu]] 14:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

:I've altered the section on the shrine graffiti and attempted a translation of the hashira shochu section. I took out the phrase "wooden plate" because I felt it implied that the graffiti was on a separate piece of wood, like a sign. It's not easy to say from the referenced website, but I thought that probably it was written directly onto one of the boards.
:I confess that I don't completely understand the hashira shochu section, as I'm not sure when or why it was impossible to make {{nihongo|seishu|清酒}}, which I called "refined sake". -- [[User:Grgcox|Grgcox]] 23:45, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
:: Indeed, that's fantastic, thanks for your help.  I prefer your graffiti translation, and now I've seen the hashira shochu bit translated I agree with your interpretation.  I hope you don't mind my tweaking your wording of the latter; mainly to read more smoothly and avoid some word repetition.  [[User:Akihabara|Akihabara]] 14:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

:This page has become an excellent resource. Still some things to add- i.e. a bit that should confirm the differences between Japanese and Korean shochu. Also, o-yuwari isn't the standard way of drinking shochu straight, it's just one way. And people will sometimes mash up an umeboshi or squeeze a lemon into o-yuwari. Regarding vending machines, ones that sell alcohol are become obsolete and other than Hai-Liki, cheap-o brand, I've never seen any other chu-hai available. But that's nitpicking...One thing I can not find information on, even in Japanese, is a nice way to describe how the different koji will affect that end taste. Not sure if it does or not, but I"m assuming so. Anyway, again, great work Akihabara.- [[User:SilverJay|SilverJay]] 03:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
::There are still a lot of alcohol vending machines in Kansai. Chu-hai is pretty common in them, too. Just speaking from personal experience. [[User:Dekimasu|Dekimasu]] 03:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

== How drink varies with season? please explain ==

Since someone said that you drink it differently depending on the seasons, it would be nice to explain some examples of this.  Therefore, we won't look quite as foolish asking for something that is out of season. Thanks! [[User:24.205.92.132|24.205.92.132]] 00:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Shōchū is drunk by the season as follows.
*A warm season is locked and done in grog. 
*A cold season is made hot-water remunerative.
--[[User:219.97.68.160|219.97.68.160]] 15:16, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

:Shōchū is drunk completely as the drinker wishes. In Kagoshima (in particular Osumi) it is drunk with hot water 80% of the time year round. Method of consumption can also change with brand, some brands are made to be drunk on the rocks, while other brands are made to be drunk with hot water.[[User:Myhomeuphere|Myhomeuphere]] 03:50, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

== Most recent edit ==

I don't think "The 1956 film [[The Teahouse of the August Moon]] portrayed an American-occupied Okinawan village rebuilding its economy with potato shōchū." under the Potato Shochu heading really adds to the article. Maybe under a new heading "Shochu in Western Culture" or something?? [[User:Myhomeuphere|Myhomeuphere]] 07:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

== General Discussion ==

<blockquote>
"The home of shōchū in Japan is the island of Kyūshū, the only prefecture of Japan which does not produce other alcoholic beverages such as sake."
</blockquote>
The island of Kyūshū is not a prefecture. Actually, it consists on 9 prefectures. Could someone with a better English than mine fix this?
- [[User:Karawapo|Karawapo]] 05:37, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

:My very limited experience from a recent three week to Japan seemed to indicate that shiso shochu is not as unusual as the article implies. At least, they had it in all the bars I ordered it from. Very tasty as well
-iwakura42

:::Shiso shochu has become quite popular recently on the back of a brand called "tantakatan" 鍛高譚（たんたかたん）out of Hokkaido.[[User:Myhomeuphere|Myhomeuphere]] ([[User talk:Myhomeuphere|talk]]) 08:48, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

::I want to know what is shochu and how many kinds of shochu? How to drink shochu?Differences between shochu and sake.effectiveness of shochu for health.

:::Ok, if you want to know what shochu is, read the article.  
How many kinds?  That depends on how you count.  The answer could be two.  1) Otsu and 2) kou.  Or it could be by ingredient, 1) rice, 2) potato, 3) soba, 4) barley, 5) brown sugar.  Not including the funky ones like milk, seaweed, chestnut and sesame.  
How is it different from sake?  It is distilled, and not necessarily made from rice.  
Effectiveness for health?  About the same as vodka or gin, I would imagine.  People say it has little to no [[purine]], which is important if you are worried about gout.  [[User:Naerhu|Naerhu]] 08:41, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

== hebishu ==

What about the Okinawan variety with the snake in it? [[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris (クリス • フィッチ)]] ([[User talk:Kintetsubuffalo|talk]]) 13:01, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

== Taste ==

I would describe Kagoshima's potato shochu as having a liquorice taste, rather than an almond taste.  If find it much preferable to the standard shochu found in Tokyo.  --[[User:Westwind273|Westwind273]] ([[User talk:Westwind273|talk]]) 20:48, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

==China==
http://maborosi-shochu.com/eng/ states that China is "birthplace".  Text read that the drink came from Thailand which is not what the cited reference states.  I changed the text on this because it's pretty straight forward.  Please discuss any alternative suggestions here instead of reverting. Thank you.[[User:AndrewHKLee|AndrewHKLee]] ([[User talk:AndrewHKLee|talk]]) 20:49, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

:You should learn [[WP:RS]] and [[WP:NPOV]]. Your source is unreliable because it is [[WP:RS#Self-published sources (online and paper)]]. The Japanese company of ''[http://www.maborosi-shochu.com/index.html Maboroshi-shochu]'' is  [http://www.renaissance-project.jp/ ''Renaissance project]'' with [http://www.renaissance-project.jp/company/outline.html nine employee]. How could this company conduct a reliable historical research? Moreover, [http://www.theshochu.com/top.html Other company] publishes the same article written by the same author (OVAL ONE Co., Ltd.), however the description is different.[http://www.theshochu.com/history.html] "''The origin of shochu is thought to be China and South East Asia in the 13th or 14th Century.''" compared to your source "''According to legend, the birthplace of shochu is China.''" Doesn't this prove the source unreliable? Furthermore you removed "'''''According to legend'''''" deliberately.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sh%C5%8Dch%C5%AB&diff=337923283&oldid=337923140]

:Please see other '''unreliable''' sources;
:*Thailand.[http://www.shochucircle.com/history.html], [http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-139015366.html]
:*Thailand or China.[http://www.practicallyedible.com/edible.nsf/Pages/shochu]

:So many theories are present. So you should not remove the description "''The exact origin of shōchū is unclear.''"[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sh%C5%8Dch%C5%AB&diff=338821281&oldid=338820800]. 

:Other '''reliable''' sources are as follows;
:*{{cite web|publisher=[[The Japan Times]]|url=http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fg20010729a1.html |title=Shochu appeal goes supersonic|quote=''Shochu is the easternmost result of a long history of distilled spirits that originated in '''Persia''', spreading west to Europe and east to India, Thailand and Okinawa (the home of awamori). Around the mid-16th century, the technique arrived in Kagoshima, where shochu was born''|date=July 29, 2001}}
:*{{cite |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=z_YDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA99&dq=shochu+thailand#v=onepage&q=shochu%20thailand&f=false|page=99|issn=0218-7868|publisher=SPH Magazines|title= Torque 6 2008|quote=''In the early 15th century, the Ryukyu Islands actively traded with China and Southeast Asian countries, importing distilled spirits from Siam Kingdom (present-day '''Thailand'''''.)}}
:*{{cite book |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=KSu3inWoJloC&pg=PT25&dq=shochu+thailand#v=onepage&q=shochu%20thailand&f=false|page=98| title=World Food Japan|first1=John Frederick |last1=Ashburne|first2=Yoshi|last2= Abe| publisher=Lonely Planet|year=2002 |isbn=1740590104|quote=''It is thought to have probably originated in '''Thailand''' and was brought to Okinawa during Ryukyu Kingdom's 'Golden Age', in the 15th and 16th centuries.'' }}
:―― [[User:Phoenix7777|Phoenix7777]] ([[User talk:Phoenix7777|talk]]) 01:16, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

If you need to check the edit history you'll find that the reference you're needlessly attacking was already in the article. It's certainly not "my" reference and I have no desire to defend it. If you want to reject it's validity as a proper citation then the claims in the text are unreferenced and becomes original research.  

As far as I'm concerned, there is no need to debate opinions here.  We just have to report what proper references state.  I hope you will be honest about what references state about origin of sochu.  Some state it's from Thailand, China or even Korea.  The text needs to accurately reflect what proper references actually state.  We shouldn't argue for just Thailand, China or Korea.  That would be POV.[[User:AndrewHKLee|AndrewHKLee]] ([[User talk:AndrewHKLee|talk]]) 00:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

::Added more references and revised the text accordingly.[[User:AndrewHKLee|AndrewHKLee]] ([[User talk:AndrewHKLee|talk]]) 02:08, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

===Unreliable source===
The following sources are unreliable or unrelated and should not be used for Wikipedia. 
#{{cite web|url=http://www.practicallyedible.com/edible.nsf/Pages/shochu|title=Shochu|publisher=Practically Edible}}
#:The [http://www.practicallyedible.com/edible.nsf/pages/legal Terms of Use] says "''The articles provided on this website are for '''entertainment purposes only''' and should not be relied upon for any purpose other than '''entertainment'''.''" Wikipedia's purpose is not for '''entertainment'''.
#{{cite web|url=http://www.cocktailtimes.com/dictionary/shochu.shtml|title=What is Shochu?|publisher=Cocktail Times}}
#: There is exactly the same description in both articles; "''I was disappointed that the manager didn't offer us a glass of shochu for all the hard work we've done for his shrine.''" This description is a translation of Japanese document. So it cannot be the same unless either of them copied another or both of them copied other article. Thus, the history written in web site about cocktail should not be considered to be reliable. 
#{{cite book |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=MtJwAAAAMAAJ&q=shochu+china&dq=shochu+china&cd=5|page=51| title=Volume 29| publisher=The East|year=1993}}
#:What I can find from this book is only the word "China" and "shochu".
#{{cite book |url=http://books.google.com/books?id=_MWmIDzNMSYC&pg=PA380&dq=shochu+china&cd=1#v=onepage&q=shochu%20china&f=false|page=380| title=Sweet potato: an untapped food resource|first1=Jennifer A. |last1=Woolfe| publisher=Cambridge University Press|year=1992 |isbn=0521402956}}
#:This book describes only "Sweet potato shōchū". It says "''The production of sweet potato shochu, which probably originated in Chaina, has been known since the 1700s.''", however we are talking about 16 century.
#: －－ [[User:Phoenix7777|Phoenix7777]] ([[User talk:Phoenix7777|talk]]) 07:10, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

==Any real difference between Shōchū and [[Soju]]?==

Is there any actual meaningful difference between Shōchū and [[Soju]]? What makes them different, other than the language being spoken or the country in which they are made? –[[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 17:11, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

:As I stated in above "Origins and distinctions" its more logical that it comes from China and Korea rather Thailand. Why would Japan take on the Chinese and Korean name, meaning and pronunciation if it comes from Thailand? Im not Korean or Chinese and Im not taking any sides here. But it doesn't make any sense that Shōchū came from Thailand and was named the same as in China and Korea? More logical would be to name it after the Thai word, เหล้าชนิดหนึ่งในประเทศมุสลิม witch translates to "a type of alcohol in Muslim countries". Shochu has the same meaning as ''shaojiu'' or ''soju''. Both Soju and Shochu is made from sweet potato, barley or rice.  - [[User:Fniss|Fniss]] ([[User talk:Fniss|talk]]) 16:18, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
::I notice that this article contains a significant emphasis on [[Aspergillus oryzae|kōji]], whereas the [[Soju]] article doesn't mention it at all. That would seem to be one way that the products might be (at least sometimes) different. Can someone please comment on that? If there is no real difference between the products other than where they are made, this should be stated in the articles. —[[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 17:11, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
:::Shochu is not soly made in Japan. It is also made in Korea and exported to Japan such as Jinro or Kyogetsu. Also how 80 proof baijiu is basically the same as shochu? Then you should mention Vodka as well. We need a reliable source to mention that. ―― [[User:Phoenix7777|Phoenix7777]] ([[User talk:Phoenix7777|talk]]) 11:06, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
::::I see, so [[baijiu]]/shaojiu is higher in alcohol content. (This article says that shōchū is typically 25% abv, and that 35% abv shōchū is not uncommon; the [[baijiu]] article says that baijiu is generally 40-60% abv – so, yes – that seems to be a difference.)  But is there any real difference between shōchū and [[soju]]? One difference in style appears to be the extensive use of [[Aspergillus oryzae|kōji]] in Japanese shōchū production. —[[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 17:44, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
People often fall into the trap of mystifying Asian culture and getting hung up on whether it's korean, japanese, chinese, etc..  Koji is just what the Japanese call Aspergillus Oryze which is the mold that ferments the sugars into alcohol.  The bug is used probably more widely per capita in Korea than Japan but all Asian countries to brew their variant of soju and other traditional brews.  The real difference between soju and sochu probably lies particular evolved methods of production by particular breweries but where they are the same is the general process.  You take grains, ferment it as you would with rice 'beer's and distill the alcohol.  Another importance difference is that most of the soju from Korea is mass produced, corporately produced made cheaply for the masses and is the ubiquitous choice of drink in Korea.  Sochu is generally more expensive and drunk less often.[[User:AndrewHKLee|AndrewHKLee]] ([[User talk:AndrewHKLee|talk]]) 13:58, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
:I see. So it sounds like there is no fundamental difference (as a matter of definition, aside from typical quality) between shōchū and [[soju]], and that both are (at least sometimes) produced using [[Aspergillus oryzae]] (a.k.a. kōji).  But [[Ethanol fermentation|fermentation]] can also be accomplished by using [[yeast]]. However, my understanding is that [[Aspergillus oryzae]] (a.k.a. kōji) is not the same thing as yeast, and that it produces a [[alcoholic beverage|spirit]] with a different flavour. —[[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 17:34, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
::AndrewHKLee has clearly problem. The user confused "Aspergillus Oryze" with "yeast". "Aspergillus Oryze" convert ingredients to sugar and "yeast" converts sugar to alcohol. Moreover the user's explanation implies all [[Distilled beverage|Spirit]] like [[Gin]], [[Vodka]] and even [[Ethanol]] are the same as Shochu. ―― [[User:Phoenix7777|Phoenix7777]] ([[User talk:Phoenix7777|talk]]) 09:51, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
:::Phoenix please moderate your tone.  Your hostilities are inappropriate.  While you are right about Aspergillus Oryzae's role in producing alcohol from grains, nonetheless it is used all across Asia including Korean soju which was the Barrelproof's question which originated this current line of discussion.  Furthermore, distillation process from weaker alcohols may be the same for vodka and gin but the ingredients and methods for production for gin and vodka are very different from sochu/soju.  Your comment about ethanol is downright inflammatory.[[User:AndrewHKLee|AndrewHKLee]] ([[User talk:AndrewHKLee|talk]]) 20:21, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
:Aside from the tone, I now see that I wasn't properly discussing the role of kōji in the process (although I'm pretty sure AndrewHKLee understood it). The kōji primarily converts complex starches into sugars that are then converted by yeast into alcohol/ethanol. Other sorts of distilled spirits (e.g., malt whisky and bourbon whisky) use different methods or different source grains to make sugar available for yeast fermentation. The ingredients and the kōji (and the aging methods, as applicable) presumably produce a spirit with a different flavour profile than such other spirits. —[[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 05:35, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
::I found a RS on the difference. They use not only [[Aspergillus oryzae]] but also [[Rhizopus]] in China and Korea. The grains they use are different too. See [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:OLQMz4wUk3IJ:www.biofood.re.kr/liguard_bbs/down.php?code%3Dli_seminar%26userfile%3Dli_seminar_48_Current%2520Trends%2520in%2520the%2520Korean%2520Fermented%2520Beverage(07-10-6)%25B9%25DF%25C7%25A5.ppt+Rhizopus+soju&hl=en]. [[User:Oda Mari|Oda Mari]] <small>([[User talk:Oda Mari|talk]])</small> 14:54, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
:::Thanks, Mari. The file is Power Point and [http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:OLQMz4wUk3IJ:www.biofood.re.kr/liguard_bbs/down.php%3Fcode%3Dli_seminar%26userfile%3Dli_seminar_48_Current%2520Trends%2520in%2520the%2520Korean%2520Fermented%2520Beverage(07-10-6)%25B9%25DF%25C7%25A5.ppt+%22li_seminar_48_Current+Trends+in+the+Korean+Fermented+Beverage%22+site:biofood.re.kr&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShY4cQaAiSAlyYzJFCNUa29UU0jqBEwtew6YlvffWwrRnop6UA0vY33mbMts-BHHvRFctm8N5IAokG0Wtg9GRL2kPUjtZFftKx23qK6e2sYSWk-jw144ySUScjZgoASTAWOMAhq&sig=AHIEtbQTZdd0tGOS-TyEUgdMO-iYQplJ9w this Google Quick View] is easy to read. "''Korea: Naturally propagates genus Rhizopus or Aspergillus in wheat, Japan: Artificially propagates pure cultured genus Aspergillus in steamed rice''" in page 9 shows the major difference. Page 11-12 shows making of nuruku (Korean koji) and koji. Korean nuruku doesn't care much about the mold than koji. This is the reason why shochu article emphasize koji. ―― [[User:Phoenix7777|Phoenix7777]] ([[User talk:Phoenix7777|talk]]) 23:10, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
:::::That's not entirely correct.  Koji is called Nurukgyoon in Korean.  It's the same fungus cultivated and used for thousands of years by both Korean and Japanese without knowing exactly what it was.[[User:Melonbarmonster2|Melonbarmonster2]] ([[User talk:Melonbarmonster2|talk]]) 03:39, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
If you compare the ingredients of Shochu and Soju, you will find they are different drinks. Shochu is typically made up of ONE ingredient (be it potatoes, sweet potatoes, wheat, etc.) If you look at the label on a bottle of Chamisul Soju, for example, it is made of MULTIPLE ingredients including potatoes and tapioca. Tapioca is not found in Shochu. If the argument that Soju and Shochu are the same thing, then it's also true that Soju and Shochu are the same as Vodka.([[Special:Contributions/144.91.48.64|144.91.48.64]] ([[User talk:144.91.48.64|talk]]) 23:56, 22 June 2011 (UTC))
::Soju=Sochu... it's basically the same beverage made with different local ingredients and methods.  Polish wodka vs. Russian vodka... English bitters vs. Bavarian brews... and so on.  You're basically converting.  Traditionally both uses rice or other available grains, polished and steamed translucent, bugs to convert starch to sugar, yeast to convert sugar to alcohol. At this point you have sake, cheongju, makgeolli, etc..  You distill this and you get soju/sochu. Rest is marketing and breweries trying to add glimmer to their product but it's really not rocket science.[[User:Melonbarmonster2|Melonbarmonster2]] ([[User talk:Melonbarmonster2|talk]]) 03:29, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
:::@Melonbarmonster2 I undid your addition. The route was different. See [http://www.tomcoyner.com/moving_beyond_the_green_blur.htm this] and check 소주 at [http://www.doopedia.co.kr/search/encyber/totalSearch.jsp here] too. The Doopedia article says "외지(外地)에서 전래된 소주를 일명 아라키주[亞刺吉酒]라 불렀는데, 이는 증류주의 발생과 관련되는 것으로서 페르시아에서 처음 발단되었다고 한다. 이것이 동방으로 오게 된 연유는 몽골인[蒙古人]이 페르시아의 이슬람교 문화를 받아들이면서 증류방식에 의한 술을 함께 들여온 것이 계기가 되었다고 본다. 증류주를 아랍어(語)로 아라그(Arag)라 한 데서 몽골어로는 "아라키[亞刺吉]"라 하고 만주어로는 "알키", 한국에서는 "아락주"라 하였다. 지금도 개성지방에서는 소주를 아락주라 한다. 소주류가 원나라로부터 전해진 이래 재래주와 함께 그 제조가 고려 때부터 성행할 만큼 소주류의 종류도 여러 가지로서 고급주·약용주로도 사용되었다. 당시의 소주는 순수한 곡식으로 만들어서 맛이 좋았으며, 한편으로 그 맛이 순하고 청결하여 이를 이용하는 자가 많았는데, 증류주이기 때문에 값이 비쌌다고 한다". Both are Korean sources. [[User:Oda Mari|Oda Mari]] <small>([[User talk:Oda Mari|talk]])</small> 05:41, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

==Primary Source==
I removed a table that was under its own subsection and I see that Phoenix has placed it back and then accused me of 'disruptive editing'.  Is there some sort of fighting going on here that I'm not aware of??  I'm not an avid editor so please let me know if I'm not understanding something.

As far as I understand it, use of primary sources to draw conclusions or implications in text is not allowed according to [[WP:PRIMARY]].  I think secondary sources for statements regarding sochu consumption is fine but I'm uncomfortable about editors drawing conclusions about sochu consumption using government tax stats which is primary source.[[User:AndrewHKLee|AndrewHKLee]] ([[User talk:AndrewHKLee|talk]]) 18:08, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
:I'm afraid your understanding of Primary Source is wrong. Gov. data is usually regarded as RS. If you disagree. please ask at [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard]]. Thank you. [[User:Oda Mari|Oda Mari]] <small>([[User talk:Oda Mari|talk]])</small> 18:37, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
:AndrewHKLee, please don't remove other editor's legitimate edit without the least knowledge of Policies. The source are reliable and I didn't "''[[WP:PRIMARY|analyze, synthesize, interpret, or evaluatel]]''" the source. I just '''cited''' the numbers described in the source. Even without a good knowledge of Policies, if you had a [[WP:COMMON|common sense]], you never thought the government statistics should not be used in Wikipedia. ―― [[User:Phoenix7777|Phoenix7777]] ([[User talk:Phoenix7777|talk]]) 11:02, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
::May I suggest that we please try to maintain a higher standard of civility to the tone of conversation here? —[[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 22:22, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

==imoshochu==
In the description, it talks about satsuma imo (potatoes) being the main/primary ingredient ingredient.  That is kind of misleading.  To make a niggling point, the main ingredient is water, and the primary ingredient is rice.  It might be better to clarify the description by adding a bit more description of the process.  eg Steam rice, add koji, finish primary fermentation (Ichijimoromi), steam potatoes, mix and move to a secondary fermenter (nijimoromi), and then finish fermentation (sanjimoromi). [[User:Pizzamancer|Pizzamancer]] ([[User talk:Pizzamancer|talk]]) 06:41, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

== Rum? ==

Can anyone tell me what are the intrinsic differences, if any, between:
# ...the sugarcane-based shochu and [[rum]]? 
# ...the potato-based shochu and vodka?
Thank you.  [[User:Boneyard90|Boneyard90]] ([[User talk:Boneyard90|talk]]) 15:29, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

*Kōji mold, a kind of Aspergillus funguse is used for sugarcane-based shochu, but not for rum.
*The distilled vodka is filtered through [[activated charcoal]] produced from [[birch]], but not shochu. [[User:Oda Mari|Oda Mari]] <small>([[User talk:Oda Mari|talk]])</small> 16:42, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

== this article is basically trash ==

The Article was very careful not to mention China in its history. LAWL. [[Special:Contributions/108.65.248.139|108.65.248.139]] ([[User talk:108.65.248.139|talk]]) 04:49, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

== External links modified ==

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to {{plural:2|one external link|2 external links}} on [[Shōchū]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=698661877 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060217025854/http://www.fukuoka-now.com:80/features/article_display.php?fn_code=429082 to http://www.fukuoka-now.com/features/article_display.php?fn_code=429082
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20050307194210/http://www.denen-shuzo.co.jp:80/chisiki/tisiki07.htm to http://www.denen-shuzo.co.jp/chisiki/tisiki07.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.

{{sourcecheck|checked=false}}

Cheers.—[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 13:59, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

== Cowboy Beebop Episode 2 ==

Is this what he actually asks for, at 5:05?

[[User:Drsruli|Drsruli]] ([[User talk:Drsruli|talk]]) 20:43, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

== Shōchū ==

Translate [[Special:Contributions/174.55.203.39|174.55.203.39]] ([[User talk:174.55.203.39|talk]]) 23:42, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

== merge with soju? ==

This article should be added as a subsection of shochu, since shochu is just the Japanese name for Soju after it was brought over from Korea. We don't have a whole separate article for udong vs udon. [[Special:Contributions/2603:3006:1082:B000:645C:9E37:D8B9:7D41|2603:3006:1082:B000:645C:9E37:D8B9:7D41]] ([[User talk:2603:3006:1082:B000:645C:9E37:D8B9:7D41|talk]]) 02:25, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

:Shochu and soju have very different histories and production methods. There is no need to merge them.--[[User:SLIMHANNYA|SLIMHANNYA]] ([[User talk:SLIMHANNYA|talk]]) 09:48, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

::And Japanese shōchū did not come from Korea. Rather, most modern Korean soju is produced by large companies, and the process is directly based on the modern Japanese kōrui shōchū (multiply distilled shōchū) production method. In other words, most modern Korean soju is a derivative of Japanese shōchū.--[[User:SLIMHANNYA|SLIMHANNYA]] ([[User talk:SLIMHANNYA|talk]]) 05:28, 4 February 2023 (UTC)