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== Scholarly article ==

Hi DTM, you asked for a scholarly article on the LAC. [https://thewire.in/diplomacy/heres-why-alls-not-well-for-india-on-the-ladakh-front Here it is]. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 19:13, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
: [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], hi, thank you, I will go through it properly. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 13:10, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
:: Hello {{U|Kautilya3}} {{U|DiplomatTesterMan}} I wanted to know, Whether this Opinion piece written in the Wire can be considered as a scholarly one? How do you see ORF's work on this subject? Regards [[User:Santoshdts|<b style="font-family:Palatino;color:Darkgreen">Santoshdts</b>]][[User talk:Santoshdts|<sup><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:grey"> [TalkToMe]</b></sup>]] 17:45, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
::: It depends on the credentials of the author, {{U|Santoshdts}}. I don't know which ORF work you are speaking of. ORF are not particularly strong in military strategy. IDSA used to be, but it has completely lost its independence now. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 23:46, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}
Here is another [https://thewire.in/diplomacy/global-dimension-india-china-confrontation-in-ladakh very deep article]. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 23:46, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
: [https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/beijing-think-tank-links-scrapping-of-article-370-to-lac-tensions/article31815266.ece China confirms]. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 10:06, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
:: It is good this was the first reason chosen publicly by a Chinese [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 12:19, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
::: And this can be added to the article of course. Maybe the think thanks in China may come out with one or two more reasons later on? [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 12:21, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

::::[https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/cooperation-not-confrontation-changing-the-rules-of-the-china-game/articleshow/76356833.cms Here] in an officer's words and these two [https://carnegieendowment.org/2020/06/04/hustling-in-himalayas-sino-indian-border-confrontation-pub-81979 here] and [https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/simmering-boundary-new-normal-india-china-border-part-1-67784/ here] for foreign perspective. This one how [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/world/asia/india-china-border.html foreign media] covers the recent confrontation. These might help. [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 00:42, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
::::: [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]]; Thanks for the articles. I guess the reasoning has saturated itself or will do so soon. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 11:03, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}
I am putting all my eggs in the Kashmir basket. China has long been trying to edge itself into the "Kashmir dispute". Modi's reconfiguration of J&K has now given an opportunity to China to openly flaunt its Pakistan axis, and threaten a pincer on Kashmir. Call the reconfiguration of J&K Modi's "forward policy". India is in exactly in the same position as it was in 1962. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 18:05, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
:The present status quo of Ladakh being an reality, giving Chinese the absolute opportunity as if they were waiting for it, think of it, since 1975 till yesterday, there was no bullet fired. Now we back to ground zero..1962. The Chinese are now well aware of India's weakness that they learnt from the Docklam standoff and as if they exactly know what they are doing. But did we? Docklam was a strategic point, and Chinese knew that very well if you want to caputure a strategic point you need to enter in multiple places including a strategic point, and that's what they did, entering through Pangong Tso and Sikkim and through diplomacy they left these two showing their willingness of cooperation but still at Galwan valley, which is a strategic point, which they need. I think India should have stirred the Indian ocean which is China's biggest weakness rather than focusing in the Himalayas only. It now wholely depends on our leadership will, now situtation demands no wrong steps. [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 14:04, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
:: Well, we are going to hear plenty of analysis in the coming weeks and months. For the moment, I really want to know what happened to the [https://opentopomap.org/#map=12/35.1245/78.0328 Raki Nala] area where the Chinese editors of OpenStreetMap gave themselves loads of territory 3 years ago. I think the Galwan valley was a decoy, and the real action happened here. But nobody has been able to tell us what happened there. It doesn't look like any newspeople can even get to that area. (Logging into the OSM today, I found some, presumably Chinese, drive-by editors tagging that place saying it was Galwan River. So we might guess that somebody has been telling them that Raki Nala is the Galwan River.) According to New York Times, China has occupied 250 sq km. (Neither Galwan Valley nor Pangong Fingers have that much area.)
:: The real "defeat" for India is in the fact that 17 injured soldiers have died before they could be hospitalised. That tells the Army and the powers that be that laying a road is just a beginning. In Aksai Chin, which is a hundred times more desolate than the Shyok valley, the Chinese have barracks, oxygen-enriched apartments, gas stations, shops and [https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Kongka+La/@34.3428885,79.1772513,343a,35y,357.84h,59.18t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x38ffc05338bf594d:0xaf00d5e03d88d6c6!8m2!3d34.3361574!4d79.031125 super-duper high ways]. They probably don't have any hospitals yet. But they will build them now. There is a long way to go before we can even think of blocking an invasion let alone repelling one. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 22:14, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
::: By the way, I believe the "Patrol Point 14" where, I understand the deaths have occurred by people "falling off into the river", is at the Raki Nala location. Please check the geography of this place. 
::: Patrol Point 15 is at the Jeong Nala and Patrol Point 17 is at the Galwan River. The point 16 is probably somewhere north of Galwan and no action has been reported there. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 08:09, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
:::: [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]], you wrote, "Now we back to ground zero..1962" In what way do you mean - the deaths? I don't think we are back to ground zero. Saying that would be an oversimplification. Both China and India are very different, international community is different, etc only thing is that the location may be roughly the same. But isn't that what this is about? [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 05:34, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
:::: [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], I can't find any proper Indian reports about Chinese infrastructure in Aksai Chin, all mainly relate to buidlup further east.
:::: [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], I need to get better at using online maps for this region, I am way to slow with it all just now. I can grasp what you mean by PP14 etc but not well enough for a proper discussion as yet in relation to the localized geography. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 05:34, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
:::::{{u|Kautilya3}},DTM, you both must get through this [http://164.100.47.193/lsscommittee/External%20Affairs/16_External_Affairs_22.pdf Standing Committee report] (assuming have not read this). Hope you will find it interesting. Here [https://indianexpress.com/article/india/after-doklam-house-panel-had-urged-govt-to-be-wary-of-china-6465686/lite/ 1], [https://theprint.in/opinion/parliamentary-committee-report-on-doklam-cant-see-chinas-game-is-just-beginning/128487/ 2] are excerpts from that report. [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 06:22, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

=== Arbitrary break ===
{{U|Drat8sub}}, thanks for that report. I never knew anything about it. I will check.

I am not so sure of my theory of PP-14 any more because enough discussion has happened in the media, suggesting that the incidents took place in the Galwan valley. There are some confusing aspects like people "falling off cliffs" whereas there are no cliffs in the Galwan valley.

{{U|DiplomatTesterMan}}, the best way to investigate the infrastructure is to go to [https://www.openstreetmap.org OpenStreetMap], zoom in to areas closely enough for the roads become visible, then use the right hand side menu where there is an arrow logo at the bottom (called "Query features"), and use the highlighter on the feature you want to query. Then it opens up an infobox for that feature which you can click. For example, here is the feature called the [https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/817064879#map=12/34.7790/78.8084&layers=N Galwan Highway] (the top segment of it). The last segment known to OpenStreetMap is [https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/810638915#map=11/34.6965/78.4760&layers=N this one]. We don't know if the road was extended any further because it doesn't show on the publicly available satellite maps.

OSM uses things called 'ways' (which are continuous segments) and 'relations' (which are larger features). For some roads or lines, people would have defined relations, e.g., the [https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2713465 Aksai Chin boundary]. For the Galwan Highway, there is no 'relation' yet. So you need to query each 'way' separately.

If you click the "layers" logo on the right hand menu, you get to pick four different views of the maps. I often use the "cycle map" which shows the terrain. Then you get to see the mountains etc, which would otherwise be just blank space. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 09:17, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
: Thank you for the report; and thanks for the explanation related to the maps. I will go through both properly. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 11:57, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
::{{u|Kautilya3}}, DTM, are these thing mentioned in the article. And I don't see a map of this. Source is very reliable since from Planet labs. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8qcASfET1c 1], [https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/after-violent-face-off-in-galwan-valley-satellite-images-reveal-china-diverting-course-of-galwan-river/articleshow/76480591.cms 2], [https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/ladakh-face-off-india-china-chinese-bring-in-bulldozers-disturb-flow-of-galwan-river-2248420 3]. [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 19:25, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
::I think the above thing that you were saying is about this. [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 19:30, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
::: Yeah, what the reports say is quite mysterious. They can't block water with just bull dozers. They must have dammed the river. If they did that, then there would be a lake on the other side, which we don't see. So it is mysterious. Perhaps they are using it for short durations only and using the collected icy cold water as a weapon. "Soldiers falling into water" is more like "soldiers getting smashed with water". 
::: Three good sources on the satellite evidence are:
:::*  Henry Boyd, Meia Nouwens, [https://www.iiss.org/blogs/analysis/2020/06/china-india-border Understanding the military build-up on the China–India border], International Institute for Strategic Studies, 18 June 2020.
:::* Nathan Russer, [https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/satellite-images-show-positions-surrounding-deadly-china-india-clash Satellite images show positions surrounding deadly China–India clash], Australian Strategic Policy Institute, 18 June 2020.
:::* Simon Scarr, Sanjeev Miglani, [https://graphics.reuters.com/INDIA-CHINA/BATTLE/yxmvjkzxwpr/ Satellite images suggest Chinese activity at India's Himalayan border before clash], Reuters, 19 June 2020.
::: They don't mention the water-as-a-weapon idea, but they all confirm that the water is being blocked. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 19:49, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
:::: Sorry, only the Reuters article is saying this. But I think the Reuters images make it clear that it is not a lake, but a "canal" that is being used to store the water. You can also see a bridge over it at one location, and a hill side has been dug out in order to create space for it. So they are storing water and releasing it in order to drown/freeze the opposing forces when they come. (That is how presumably the 17 Indian soldiers, other than the original three, died, if they weren't just beaten to death.) -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 20:00, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
:::::{{u|Kautilya3}}, is it possible in wikipedia to make a graphic map as shown in Reuters, any tool available here? because the existing map hardly shows the scenerio. And, they did blocked the water flow afterall, since the water level increases and water gets comparatively stagnant and murkier water get settle and clear water can be seen, and these Chinese just made it possible in weeks. What I see at one place there is kind of culvert bridge too constructed. And the water flow was blocked not for making any trap for Indian army but for further road , just see the point where machineries are, its almost near the trails seems end, they were increasing the road upto Shyok river, occupying the accessible plateau like flat area at the confluence of the two river, best place for a big base. And thats why the have a huge second convoy of trucks in the nearest camp. However, bodies were lifted from water whole night, which means they were in that icy water for sure. [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 02:48, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
:::::: Sure, I can make an OSM location map with the majority of those locations, if you can do a write-up. Why don't you get started in your sandbox, and I will add a map? 
:::::: As for the ingenuity in doing these things, the Chinese strategy of war has always been to do it without actual fighting. Their war plan would have included all these things. They didn't just happen overnight. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 09:47, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
::::::: {{U|Drat8sub}}, Vinayak Bhat explains what they did [https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis/story/how-china-channelled-galwan-river-to-claim-territory-1691142-2020-06-21]. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:21, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}
Incidentally, the precise location of the LAC in the Galwan Valley can also be a matter of considerable dispute. A Chinese editor just edited the OpenStreetMap boundary three days ago, giving China a bit more of land than it had already. But Google Maps, using the US Office of Geographer data, shows it a bit further up from the junction with the stream: [https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/The+Gallowan+River/@34.7665885,78.2125433,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x38fe8ef048f02ea9:0x2ceab753912f46f1!8m2!3d34.7589668!4d78.1701053!5m1!1e4 2D terrain], [https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/The+Gallowan+River/@34.7659723,78.2061457,1897a,35y,62.03h,26.15t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x38fe8ef048f02ea9:0x2ceab753912f46f1!8m2!3d34.7589668!4d78.1701053!5m1!1e4 3D]. So the location where the Chinese tent was burnt down is on the Indian side of the LAC as per the US data. It gets very very tricky here. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 10:43, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

The [https://pewu.github.io/osm-history/#/way/201864296 edit history] of the LAC at Galwan on OpenStreetMap. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 11:30, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
: Theoretically I am following all of this. Practically will need some time. Keep at it and keeping at it. {{emoji|1F44D}} [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 13:06, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
:: I randomly adjusted a road on Pangong Tso on OSM. Who checks this? Can anyone change it back? Is this just like a Wikipedia edit but just on a map? [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 14:16, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
::: If it is a good edit, it is unlikely to be changed. Very likely, nobody will notice. Things aren't as bad on OSM as they are on Wikipedia. So most users are trusted. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:51, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
::::{{u|Kautilya3}}, ok I'll try to write up the whole story what happened in chronologically. But it'll take little time, atleast 30 articles describing the scenerio. Seen those map, here is fact, boundary is either mountain ridge/stratigraphic ridge/rivers, the newly changed line by the chinese editor drew the line arbitrarily through the mountain which cannot be correct. As the ridge line strated from the conflict point, where as the chinese editor drew the line without completing one mountain ridge and midway broken it while extended it to another mountain where ridge does not exist. Its a trick they are playing as in the satellite map you will see some white line can be seen, its nothing but landslide or due to intermittent flow, which the chinese editor trying to fool people by claiming it as stratigraphic ridge, where as terrain map clealy shows there is nothing exists. I never used OSM, I have to understand how this OSM works, seems like need of the moment. [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 18:43, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
::::: I made a map in my [[User:Kautilya3/sandbox |sandbox]]. If you need any more stuff added, please let me know.
::::: As for OSM, there is nothing to it. You register an account and then off you go. But this particular edit, I have fixed already. It will probably take a day or two to show up. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 20:16, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
:::::: Here precisely is the [https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/201864296#map=15/34.7699/78.2183&layers=C fix at the Galwan LAC]. It is not showing up on the maps yet. Apparently it takes a while for the databases to get updated (probably helps to inhibit edit-warring).
:::::: According to [https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/3-separate-brawls-outsider-chinese-troops-more-most-detailed-account-of-the-brutal-june-15-galwan-battle-1691185-2020-06-21 India Today], it was proved during the Lt. Gen. talks that the Chinese observation post was on the Indian side of the LAC. It was then removed but later reappeared. 
:::::: At the same time Freedsky moved the point in the Galwan Valley from his old point {{coord|34.7693261|78.2121848}} (which was also wrong), to {{coord|34.7698901|78.2124853}} on 18 June 2020. I have now moved it to {{coord|34.7688678|78.2127857}}, which corresponds to what I see on Google Maps, and is also in agreement with the ridge line on the other side of the river. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 10:32, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
:::::: Also noting China's 1960 declared boundary so we can compare: {{coord|34|46|N|78|13|E}}. If you hover on any of these coord points, you get a little globe icon. Click on it, and you will get to see all these coordinates on as single map. It is part of Wikipedia magic! -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 12:29, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
::::::: China's declared boundary now [https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/34.7664/78.2148 shows up] at high enough a resolution. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 09:34, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
:::::::: Testing the WikiMiniAtlas for [[NJ9842]] - {{coord|35|1|29|N|77|0|23|E}} [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 11:03, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
:::::::: I just realised that all the coordinates on this page start to appear on the same mini map. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 11:07, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
=== Depsang plains ===
[[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], I went ahead and added Depsang to the OSM eastern Ladakh map that you had placed in the main article. One of the sources [https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-china-border-line-of-actual-control-closer-to-strategic-dbo-chinese-army-attempts-ingress-via-depsang-plains-6474740/ 1] I have added to the article mentioned other patrol points, but it is hard to figure out where they all are. I assume it starts from PP - 01
{{talkquote|Bottleneck is known as Y-junction because the track coming from Burtse forks into two tracks, one going northwards along the Raki Nala to Patrolling Point-10 (PP-10) and the other south-eastward towards PP-13. These two tracks are followed by Indian patrols on foot up to PP-10, PP-11, PP-11A, PP-12 and PP-13.}}
[[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 11:46, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
: I have marked the [https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/819431890 bottleneck area] on the OSM. I am afraid most of the newspapers have gotten things wrong again. Please look out for [https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/819431890 Praveen Swami columns]. I can't yet tell where the "Chinese loop road" is. We need to see a satellite map for that. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 12:31, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
:: More specifically, I think the newspapers are mistaking India's own Qizil Langar post as a Chinese post. Disinformation again. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 12:34, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
::: Found the <s>"Track Junction"</s> at {{coord|35.2324|77.9782}}. The Chinese loop road should be to the east of that. This location does roughly correspond to what the newspapers have been pointing at. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 21:49, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
::: Gosh, this is in fact the famous "Qizil Langar". And Wikimapia has the Chinese loop road marked. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 22:02, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
::: My fault in having <s>marked</s> accepted [https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2945864080#map=11/35.2428/78.0428 this location] as Qizil Langar previously. It was kind of at the edge of the US Army map NI 43-04 and I misread the location. The real Qizil Langar is to the south of it, near the origin of the Burtsa Nala. The "this location" is marked on Google Maps as "TAC HQ", and it appears that this is what Praveen Swami calls the "Track Junction". The Chinese loop road is directly opposite to that. Here is the link to the [https://www.news18.com/news/india/as-pla-seeks-to-cut-off-indian-patrol-routes-on-lac-bottleneck-emerges-as-roadblock-in-disengagement-2685571.html Praveen Swami article], which is relatively free of disinformation. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 09:10, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
:::: There is hardly any mention of "Qizil Langar" on Wikipedia or even online. What was your reason for calling it "famous". Actually there are so many map points not marked on these maps for places along the LAC, so many settlements without even a single photograph online, like the article for [[Darbuk–Shyok–DBO Road]] says Mandaltang is a village. Google maps doesn't even have it and OSM, I see no village on the various layers; the marker itself is located at a really precarious point.
:::: This article has been done nicely - [[List of locations in Aksai Chin]]. I guess it is easier to make something like this when there are limited places to mark. I wonder if something similar could be made for [[List of locations along the LAC]], then again LAC isn't really fixed, and that is the whole point of improving OSM in the first place. Your DBO OSM map has been shared on Twitter by the way [https://twitter.com/KiranKS/status/1265700297755832321/photo/1 link] [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 10:19, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
::::: The map in [[Praveen Swami]]'s article in News18 is a good one. I think this is the first map I am seeing that has multiple PPs. A wholesome birdseye view. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 10:27, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
:::::: Qizil Langar has [https://www.google.com/search?q=qizil+langar&hl=en&sxsrf=ALeKk02AkpndW8ZhSavY4gcJUYaarX7RPA:1593297318823&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj01taFh6PqAhWbQxUIHeMfCscQ_AUICSgA&biw=1163&bih=534&dpr=1.65 89,000 Google hits] (including weather forecasts!), probably ten times the amount you would have gotten for "Galwan River" before the present standoff. Why is it famous? (I don't know, just ran into it in many places.) Probably because it is the last halting place before DBO. The other stream near "Track Junction" (the old place marked as Qizil Langar) is probably frozen 90% of the time.
:::::: As for Mandaltang etc., apparently they aren't villages, but only campsites. Murgo is the only village in this part of Ladakh. It has a beautiful monastery, which you can google for. Thanks for sharing the tweet of the DS-DBO map. The second image on that tweet is the new bridge across the Shyok near the Galwan river. The Chewang Rinchen bridge isn't very photogenic at least to my eye. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 22:54, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
::::::: Thanks for the detailed reply. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 11:21, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
[[File:Chinese claim lines in Ladakh - map by CIA.png|thumb|right|1956 and 1960 claim lines]]
{{cmt}}{{ping|Kautilya3|DiplomatTesterMan|Santoshdts}} [[Bharat Karnad]] writes [https://bharatkarnad.com/ a blog] about strategic affairs which is definitely worth reading. Bharat Karnad is one of India’s most well known strategic-affairs commentator; he has been quoted in almost all the books on Indian nuclear policy that I have read. ([[WP:TPS]])<span style="font-size:0.9em;letter-spacing:0.1em">&mdash; '''[[User:Vaibhavafro|<span style="color:Black">Vaibhavafro</span>]]''' [[User talk:Vaibhavafro|<sup>&#128172;</sup>]]</span> 09:46, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
: Thanks {{U|Vaibhavafro}}. I don't have much hopes that the Indian Army generals would listen to the brainy civilians or even retired generals. The same insularity we see among the Indian bureaucrats also pervades the Army. They only start listening when they get strung by the nose by smarter enemies. But after the crisis passes, they go back to sleep again. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 11:37, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
:: Thank you indeed [[User:Vaibhavafro|Vaibhavafro]]. I can now connect some articles of his that I have previously read to his blog, most recently 'Is Modi ceding Indian territory to China?'. Taking a tangent, it is interesting how the blog was started in September 2011, and has continued till date. The categorization says a lot.
:: K3, "They only start listening when they get strung by the nose by smarter enemies. But after the crisis passes, they go back to sleep again." This reminds me of that saying about God, that we only remember God in difficult times. Though of course I am not comparing civilians to God here. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 07:44, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}
'''Interesting''' that the entire Raki Nala was excluded from China's 1960 claim line. But at the end of the 1962 war, they were occupying it, sort of along a north-south straight line. The LSIB 2017 (used by Google maps), for the first time, pushes out the LAC in that area, not all the way to the end of Raki Nala, but about half way out. I don't know how it happened. Perhaps the 2013 stand-off gave India some gains. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 20:40, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

=== Pangong ===
[[File:Map of Tibet and Pangong Lake in 1873 from Hindutagh-pass-aksai-chin-center2-1873 (cropped).jpg|thumb|right|Note the routes along Pangong]]
India's access to the Chang Barma valley (the valley at the middle of the lake on its northern shore) used to be via the Ane La pass in the north. An alternative route used to be the middl(the valley at the middle of the lake on its northern shore)e section of the lake, which could be presumably crossed by foot from the southern shore. Both of these were cut off by China in 1960. An excellent example of "seven inches below the head". 

Then India started laboriously developing a route along the northern shore, which has never been done before because of the "fingers" jutting into the lake. So this route is now being cut off at Finger 4, another example of the same paradigm. The strategic importance of Finger 4 now becomes clear. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 11:22, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
: Incidentally this map, dated 1873, shows that the British had already given away the Chang Barma valley to China. How Nehru and co hoped to get it back is inexplicable. All the present day newspaper maps that show the LAC at Chang Barma are stupidly fanciful. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 11:44, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

* Try the "Wikimedia warper" on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_India_and_Pakistan_1-250,000_Tile_NI_44-9_Pangong_Tso.jpg this map] for a really cool overlay, that shows the difference between the original boundary and the present one. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:36, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] Clarification needed related to your mention of "Chang Barma valley". Are you pointing to a marked or unmarked feature on the map? On the map I can only spot - "Chang Chenmo valley" and "Changlung Barma Pass" which have similar names in the location I am assuming you are referring to.
:: I checked out Wikimaps Warper for the first time just now. It is like tracing we use to do as kids using tracing paper. I tried some of the other rectified maps. Such a simple but powerful concept. Easy to use too.
:: The British seem to be making better maps of India (British India) than we did a hundred+ years ago. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 08:22, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
::: Chang Barma ([https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/456978353 OpenStreetMap]) is the large pronounced valley in the middle of the lake on the north. That is where India's ''claim line'' is. It ends in a [https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Ote%2C%20rutog%20county#map=14/33.7505/79.0091&layers=C huge plain] jutting into the lake, and reducing the lake to a narrow water channel for about 10 miles. This plain is traditionally called ''Ote'', now better known as "Khurnak plain" or "Khurnak region" after the [[Khurnak Fort]] situated on it. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 10:54, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
:::: [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] Ok. Got it. I have been over these places so many times in these past few days; shouldn't have missed the names or not let them register. Thanks. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 06:41, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}
"Chang" just means north. So you find it in many names: Chang La, Changlung, Changtang etc. Changtang (or Changthang) now just means elevated grazing grounds all over Ladakh as well as Tibet.

For this particular valley, Strachey wrote its name as "Chang Parma" and Godwin-Austen spelled it as "Chang Burmah". I thought "Barma" must be a more standardised spelling, but now I am having doubts. Normally "Barma" occurs twinned with "Yogma". (There is a Changlung Barma pass and another Changlung Yogma pass. So it is some kind of a disambiguator.) We don't see that here. So I am going to change it back to "Parma". As to what "Parma" could mean see [http://mms.thlib.org/dictionary_searches/new#ixzz61bbjJ9fL here]. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 09:30, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
: There is apparently a [http://www.faunajournal.com/archives/2017/vol4issue2/PartA/4-2-1-485.pdf Parma valley near Chushul]. So "Chang Parma" would mean northern Parma. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 13:00, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

=== The British boundaries ===
When we say the "original boundary", we need to keep in mind that there were ''two boundaries'', which are explained on the [[Demchok sector]] page. The first boundary was decided in 1847-48 by an official '''boundary commission''' consisting of [[Alexander Cunningham]], [[Henry Strachey (explorer)|Henry Strachey]] and Thomas Thomson, all of whom are highly notable explorers. The second boundary was unofficially made up by the '''Kashmir survey''' in 1860s on highly questionable grounds. Normally, surveyors don't make boundaries. They can only recommend them to the government, which is then responsible for deciding. In this case, nothing was decided. So their boundary line got printed on all the maps without any decisions having been made. (Privately, there might have been discussions between the Government of India and the Kashmir Maharajas, which we don't know about. The Kashmiris did not accept the boundaries and just kept doing whatever they always did.)

After independence, the new "Government of India", for the first time, listened to the Kashmiris and formalised the prevailing situation as a border line. India's border line is thus closer to the Cunningham-Strachey-Thomson boundary from 1847. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 11:17, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

:Gosh!!! I was inactive for last 1 week, now I realise what I've missed, someone surely pulled their sleeves and sticking to the study table with a magnifying glass for sure. Knock Knock Sherlock !!...Kautilya I think it's not me but you should write it down the whole section of Galwan. I though started but did not add it to the sandbox though. But after reading all above I think you are more into the details, I'm afraid I may miss a lot. [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 05:52, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

=== New claim on Changlung river ===
[https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/804672674#map=12/34.3674/78.9182&layers=C Here]. It was added to OSM on 16 May. 

[https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/1279356956134670342/photo/1 detresfa's map] shows that it is already under Chinese occupation. It hasn't been reported in the Press.

The new claim line appears to be at the coordinates the Chinese declared in 1960: 34° 22' N, 78° 53' E. So this could be a riposte to the Indian demand for the 1960 coordinates in the Galwan Valley.

Some background on the Changlung river: It is one of the two major tributaries of the Chang Chenmo River, the other being Kugrung, which is to the west on the Indian side of the LAC. (Recall that "Chang" means north and "lung" is something like a valley. Not a great name. But there we are.) Changlung is the communication route to the head of the Galwan Valley (Samzungling). You see it on the travel routes map above. Karam Singh, leading an Indian patrol party sometime before 1959:
{{talkquote|"Now, look at your map, we shall be moving along river Chang Lung towards Samzungling via Kota Jilga [Keta] and Yangling [Banlong?]. Samzungling is 30 KM away and lies to the southeast of Panamic and northeast of Tegar. A fair weather road exists till Yangling which is going to be our first stop. Everybody shall carry half a seer of dry fruits for use in any emergency. This packet, however, shall be opened only under my orders. Everybody must have snow goggles with him.

"Right, Merey Shero (my tigers), our next stop is going to be at Banlong about 13 K.M. from here. We go along the Chang Lung River. I do not expect any big problems on our way. It is no more than a rivulet and could be crossed at many places or just jumped over at some'.... Well before the sunset, they made to Samzungling, the source of river Galwan and a regular halting place for the caravans that had built some structures there for their stay. There was again no need to pitch up their tents here. The patrol found ready shelters to spend the night.<ref>{{citation |last=Karkra |first=B.K. |title=The Police Warriors on The Indo-Chinese Border in Ladakh |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=EIu5DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA82 |year=2019 |publisher=Walnut Publication |isbn=978-81-943486-1-0 |pp=82–}}</ref>}}

The other place where you see Chinese positions in defstra's map is on a [https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/457196358#map=12/34.5842/78.6288&layers=C tributary of Galwan] called "Xicagou" (rhymes with Chicago). The 1962 Indian post was established on this tributary, close to its meeting point with Galwan. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 08:53, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

:{{u|Kautilya3}}, did any western publisher or any other publisher, publish any maxar image of Pangong Tso build up??? Please provide if you find. I don't find any. [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 15:04, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
:: I don't think anybody published actual photographs. The best we have is [https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/satellite-images-show-positions-surrounding-deadly-china-india-clash/ Nathan Ruser's article]. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 15:23, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

=== So Modi surrenders ===
The Chinese move behind the Indian perception of the LAC in Galwan Valley, and the Indians move behind the Chinese perception of the LAC at the Galwan estuary. No word yet on the Pangong Fingers or Hot Sprints (especially Changlung).
* Deeptiman Tiwary, Sushant Singh, Krishn Kaushik, [https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-china-galwan-troops-withdraw-6492347/ In Galwan, both sides agree: Troops step back 1.8 km, 30 soldiers each in tents], The Indian Express, 7 July 2020.
* Ajai Shukla, [https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/signs-of-thaw-at-galwan-valley-after-nsa-ajit-doval-wang-yi-talk-120070601674_1.html Signs of thaw at Galwan Valley after NSA Ajit Doval, Wang Yi talk], Business Standard, 7 July 2020.
* [[Brahma Chellaney|Brahma Chellany]], [https://www.hindustantimes.com/columns/china-may-win-without-fighting/story-4M3g3EhhwmYlxKRMxc7GUN.html China may win, without fighting], Hindustan Times, 9 July 2020.
-- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 18:05, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
: [https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-china-border-face-off-ladakh-do-you-remember-congress-digs-out-pm-modis-2013-tweet-on-india-china-2258839 "Do You Remember?" Congress Digs Out PM Modi's 2013 Tweet On India-China]. 
: I think Congress also used to be wimpy, but Modi's buckling is gigantic in comparison. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 23:40, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

::DTM and {{u|Kautilya3}} from the Business standard article (above) and [https://www.hindustantimes.com/columns/china-may-win-without-fighting/story-4M3g3EhhwmYlxKRMxc7GUN.html HindustanTimes] article, I think we need to add few lines that the current policy is not a win situation but a surrender to China's policy of 10 step forward and 6 step backward while winning 4 steps by them. But where to add, whcih section in the article??? [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 04:42, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
::: I have added the Brahma Chellany article to the list. These columnists understand, just like we do, that a restoration of status quo ante is not possible without a military response. But that would be [[WP:CRYSTAL]]. But we should definitely point out that "disengagement" ''does not mean'' restoration of status quo ante. It just means that no ''further encroachments'' will be made, for now.
:::* As for the Galwan Valley, there is some good news. [https://twitter.com/fravel/status/1280694316067930112 Taylor Fravel] has pointed out that China has never claimed up to what we understand by "Galwan estuary". Rather, it appears to mean the 90-degree bend, the site of PP-14.
:::* But the Chinese web site he cites as authoritative, [https://zhfw.tianditu.gov.cn/ tianditu], shows the Chinese extensions of claims at the Raki Nala, Jeong Nala, Changlung estuary ([https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/34.3608/78.8751&layers=C Gogra]), Finger 4 Pangong, and the corresponding southern shore extension. All these claims have long been present in the OpenStreetMap, with the exception of the Changlung estuary which was added in May (in the middle of the standoff). So the Chinese claims are '''public knowledge'''. But Finger 4 and Gogra the only one that has been reported in the Press.<small>Gogra added. [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 08:54, 9 July 2020 (UTC)</small>
:::* I have long believed that the Galwan Valley encroachment was a decoy. It was the most public one, the most inflammatory one. China would have always intended to move back from here, while all the other encroachments would go unnoticed. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:39, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::{{u|Kautilya3}}, just seen your comment. However, I have reconstructed the section [[2020 China–India skirmishes#Diplomatic response]]. Can you check or modify if needed. [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 07:58, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

:::::[https://twitter.com/fravel/status/1275071139820134401/photo/2 1] & [https://twitter.com/fravel/status/1275071142986805251/photo/1 2] maps surely showing they are claiming beyond pp14. And [https://twitter.com/fravel/status/1276167068128337924/photo/2 this] map shows their claim upto Shyok river. [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 08:09, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

:::::: Yes, I have seen these older maps. They are hand-drawn sketch maps, which can't be taken to be precise. Fravel's latest post gives "authoritative" information.
:::::: [https://twitter.com/fravel/status/1275071142986805251/photo/1 This map] of the history of 1962 war is a good one. The post numbered 14 is what we call India's "Galwan Post". It was actually on a tributary of Galwan called "Xicagou". The post 27 is also presumably on Xicagou. This was the only presence of India in the vicinity of Galwan. We don't know if there was a rear base in the Shyok Valley, but the Chinese presumably expected there to be. So they didn't come all the way to the Shyok Valley. Their claim line was only up to the 90-degree bend (or 450 metres short of that point). So they didn't need to come all the way to the Shyok Valley in any case.
:::::: In contrast, note that there were ''6 posts'' along the Changlung river. This was a regular patrol route for the Indians. So they had to use full force to block the Indians there. The Galwan Valley, in contrast, was quite impenetrable in 1962. Even the Chinese posts are on the mountain tops surrounding it. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 09:16, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}
A quick summary of the losses is [https://thewire.in/security/government-misleading-media-on-chinese-disengagement-along-lac here], from Ajai Shukla. I actually watched the whole interview, which is useful to convince yourself that Shukla knows what he is talking about, but there is no particular information there. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:16, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
: Depsang Plains is the biggest loss, as I always believed it would be. A fringe benefit of editing OpenStreetMap is that you get to know what the Chinese will do three years down the road. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:20, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
::I have watched the interview, we need to re write the "atttempts of disengagement" and the "failure of status quo ante". {{u|Kautilya3}}, do we have any other other source on reality of Gogra and hot spring??? [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 04:15, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
::: No. But I will continue looking. If it is true that the Press is only reporting what the Government is leaking, it is understandable that nothing has appeared about Gogra and Depsang Plains. They are trying to quietly negotiate. I would let them get on. Yesterday's news, which is the most obscure statement ever, is basically saying that nothing has been agreed. No news is good news. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 06:57, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}
I guess I haven't told you guys about [https://earthworks.stanford.edu/catalog/stanford-yg089df0008 earthworks.stanford.edu]. This is an extremely useful site as it documents the US Office of Georapher's LSIB3 database, released in 2013, overlaid on the OpenStreetMap. (I haven't found any place for the last LSIB database, which was released in 2017, and used by Google Maps). Since the OSM boundaries are constantly being changed by Chinese editors, we get to see the claims that the Chinese are making or intend to be make in future. So, funnily, all that the Indian military has to do to figure out where the Chinese will encroach in future, all they have to do is to monitor OpenStreetMap!

So, here are the OSM edit histories for the boundary at the currently disputed locations:
* [https://pewu.github.io/osm-history/#/way/201963203 Hot Springs]
* [https://pewu.github.io/osm-history/#/way/804672674 Gogra]
* [https://pewu.github.io/osm-history/#/way/201864293 Raki Nala and Jeong Nala] (Interestingly, a Chinese editor has just deleted an Indian editor's claim here!)
* [https://pewu.github.io/osm-history/#/way/201963204 Pangong north shore]
* [https://pewu.github.io/osm-history/#/way/823046242 Pangong south shore]
* [https://pewu.github.io/osm-history/#/way/201989226 Dumchele] (north of Demchok)
When a line is changed, the old line is marked in red, the new line in green. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 08:07, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
:: ''"So, funnily, all that the Indian military has to do to figure out where the Chinese will encroach in future, all they have to do is to monitor OpenStreetMap!"'' You have mentioned something like this before also. Chinese editors making edits in the Ladakh region of OSM, slowly shifting areas into their territory. I remember as a kid playing with toy plastic soldiers, tanks and planes. Most of the time it is very intuitive as to what is going to happen since there are very few things you can do with a line - leave it where it is, shift it forward, shift it back. Then again, a handswipe in jest or callousness was enough to spoil everything. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 09:51, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
:::{{u|Kautilya3}} and DTM, the alarm came internally itself around March before those analyst had to go for publishing report. And their alarm was based on maps after all, I don't know when OSM thing was first changed but surely before physically changing the geography they did muddled it in black and white. This skirmish surely brought the naked truth out that how in traces are our intels on China. When I said, its back to ground zero, it because of this facts, then a whole highway build and our intelligence had nothing to offer, today they made new roads, established base, mobilished large number of soldiers & our intelligence failed to alarm. [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 01:23, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
:::: [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ''our intelligence had nothing to offer'' :D are you sure? Strategically, China has been a threat for a long time to India. I am sure we would have a few eyes looking in that direction? [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 06:47, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::It can be either of the two, the intellegence failed us or the present govt. But, still I believe we have minuscule intels on chinese activities. Even intellengence failed when Pulwama happened, intels on Pak is strong but still it happened. So, consider this and think how much our intellegence agencies have information about chinese activities. [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/intel-alerted-about-pla-movement-in-ladakh-in-feb-march/articleshow/76436490.cms?from=mdr 1], [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/view-india-needs-to-buck-up-its-analysis-intel/articleshow/76445529.cms 2], [https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2020-06-22/us-intel-source-china-ordered-attack-on-indian-troops-in-galwan-river-valley 3] [https://indianexpress.com/article/india/pla-troop-movement-lac-pangong-clash-indian-army-6506134/ 4]drom these it seems there is some problem with our agencies. [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]] ([[User talk:Drat8sub|talk]]) 14:02, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::: Well, "intelligence" is not a black-and-white thing. Information that comes in has to be processed and graded as it moves up the command ladder. Once it reaches the top (who is the top, actually? Doval?) it has to be actioned. So lots of things can go wrong between the cup and the lip. 
:::::: You must have seen the films/documentaries about the hunt for Osama Bin Laden. It was touch-and-go all the way. If it was a lesser President than Obama it could have gone wrong. I remember a line from one of the movies I saw, "you want the President of the United States to put his ass on the line because you have hunch?" That is how intelligence works.
:::::: Given how Modi was trying deny what was visible to the naked eye to the whole world, I am surprised anything works at all in this government. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 18:01, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
::::::: For instance, let us say that there is indeed an analyst that looks after the OSI and notices the stuff happening on OpenStreetMap. If he flags it up, what weight will his superiors give to this information? I would expect, none. 
::::::: What is remarkable is that, even after the standoff started, the Army did not take care to protect the Y-junction at the Raki Nala, and allowed it to be occupied by the Chinese. This ought to rank as the highest incompetence! But who is asking? -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 18:19, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}
{{talkquote|The officer said that “Chinese troops, which were part of an ongoing training exercise, were later diverted to the standoff sites on the LAC. These exercises are routine every summer and there has been a long understanding that the two armies move back to their bases after the exercise. It is an established norm, followed scrupulously for years.”}}
Deja vu? Wasn't it the same argument they gave for why the Kargil intrusions weren't countered? -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 18:46, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
: [[User:Drat8sub|Drat8sub]], there is a chapter in [[The Unending Game]] by RAW chief V. Sood titled '''"Known by their failures"'''. Vikram Sood, has said this phrase in many ways over the years - "“'''India’s intelligence agencies are known for their failure''' because we cannot boast about our achievements." ([https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/180219/india-must-spend-more-on-intelligence-says-ex-raw-chief-vikram-sood.html Deccan Chronicle]). [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 08:43, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

=== Distrust but verify ===
* * Mike Pompeo, [https://www.state.gov/communist-china-and-the-free-worlds-future/ Communist China and the Free World’s Future], US Deartment of State, 23 July 2020.
-- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 12:58, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

:''... distrust but verify / distrust until fully and comprehensively verified / verify and still not trust / <br>verify and verify / verify and then trust / verify first trust second / trust but verify sources in a pandemic...''
: [[Communist China and the Free World’s Future]] could be considered for a Wikipedia article. What do you think? There are more than enough sources. Some sources even give lengthy analysis. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 06:43, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

:: Yeah, go for it {{U|DiplomatTesterMan}}. You have the right user name for it! -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 08:09, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
::: {{U|Kautilya3}} ''"You have the right user name for it!" - ''When I created my username in 2013/2014 it was soooooooooo random. There was a notepad lying on the table, the company was "Diplomat". "Tester" because that is what i was doing at the time, seeing what Wikipedia was. And "man" because, well, i am male. I didn't even think much about it at the time. Now the word "diplomat" does cross my mind and I sooo want to change my username sometimes, but then I've left it for now :D This is one of the reasons I actually shortened my username and prefer to use the short version. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 09:39, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
:::: Oh, shoot. I always thought of you as a tester (taster?) of the [https://www.masterofmalt.com/vodka/diplomat/diplomat-vodka/ Diplomat]! -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 09:49, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
::::: Haha! But meanings can change over time even if there was no thought out meaning when it was created. So anything really goes with this name. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 13:23, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
::::: <small> also, I don't drink. aka [[Teetotalism]]  [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 13:32, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
</small>
:::::: Speaking of Russia, [[About that Spring (song)]] ([[О той весне]]), I have this song in my to-do list too! [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 13:40, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}
Hold on a minute. What did you mean by I have the right user name for it and then connect my username to Russian Diplomat Vodka? [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 14:49, 28 July 2020 (UTC) <small>{{ping|Kautilya3}} [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 14:49, 28 July 2020 (UTC) </small>
: No connection at all. Drink is completely divorced from politics, even though it might stimulate politics. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 16:20, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

== Request to make a page on MS Bhatia IPS ==

He is a legendary officer Jharkhand Cadre currently serving in CRPF. [[User:Jascfc|Jascfc]] ([[User talk:Jascfc|talk]]) 11:47, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
: [[User:Jascfc|Jascfc]] I went through a couple of online sources related to this. Please could you point to information that is online related to the 'legendary' aspect please. Thanks. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 11:16, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

He has also been appointed as the Managing trustee of Bharat Ke Veer Trust by the Home Ministry [[User:Jascfc|Jascfc]] ([[User talk:Jascfc|talk]]) 19:06, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Also for some reason links aren't getting pasted! [[User:Jascfc|Jascfc]] ([[User talk:Jascfc|talk]]) 19:10, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Send me your email id and I'll forward you the links! [[User:Jascfc|Jascfc]] ([[User talk:Jascfc|talk]]) 19:10, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
: [[User:Jascfc|Jascfc]] [[Bharat Ke Veer]], that is a familiar name indeed! I remember seeing long back if a page could be made for this. Anyway email is pulakitsingh@gmail.com . (It does make little sense why you can't paste links :D, but then ok). [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 10:20, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

==Well done for ICBR==

Ram Ram bhai, 

Kit se? Jiwe se, ke mar gya? hehehe Hope all is well with you. 

Thanks for creating [[India-China Border Roads]]. I have expanded it to include all the related infrastructure revelent to the India-China geostrategic context. You may want to rename the article to "India-China border geostrategic infrastructure" and within that ICBR is one of the component, along with important railways, AGLs, etc. I will continue to expand the text, e.g. 
# Find all the roads by state and map those to 3 corresponding Indian Military sectors (Western sectors is Ladakh, Middle sector is Himachal and Uttrakhand, Eastern sector is Sikkim and Arunachal) table you have created.  
# Add a statewise count of total number of ICBR, Uttrakhand, followed by Arunachal and then Ladakh.
# Parliamentary committe noted that there are 530+ roads being build near India-China border, among those highest numbers are under "CSG roads" (I presume "Counterterrorism Security Group to deal with insurgents in JK, Arunachal and Northeast)?, then 70+ are labelled as "GS roads" (Geostrategic) which are also called ICBRs (your article), and then there is 3rd category called "ITBF roads" (I presume these are roads going to ITBF border posts, army has separate bases/camps than ITBF). 
# I am not sure if there is ICBR Phase-2 or not. I vaguely recall I might have created a notion of Phase-2 while updating [[Border Roads Organisation]] few years ago. Need to recheck if Phase-2 exists or I misunderstood. If exists, then we need to research and add more details on it.

In addition to ICBR article you created, please see the table I have created [[List_of_disputed_territories_of_India#Disputed_areas]] and the [[Andaman_and_Nicobar_Command#Strategic_importance_of_ANC]] section I wrote (along with the table in the article). These 3 articles, including your ICBR article, summarise India's China centric geostrategic context and infra/political developmentsetc. Perhaps we could create a separte "meta article" article [[India's China centric geostrategic initiatives]] to summarise these 3 article, while still retaining the present 3 articles for capturing details. What do you think?

I did miss your presence here bhai. Take care of your physical and mental health first. No rush. Come back when you are in the mood to enjoy wikipedia, meanwhile do not force yourself. Stay safe. Cheers! [[Special:Contributions/58.182.176.169|58.182.176.169]] ([[User talk:58.182.176.169|talk]]) 13:57, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

: Hi DTM, Hope you are all right? I just noticed that you haven't been talking for a while, when our IP friend started alluding to it.  Please take rest and we will see you when you get back! -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 00:38, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

::<small> Will be back soon. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 11:59, 19 July 2020 (UTC)</small>
::: [[User:58.182.176.169|58.182.176.169]], thanks for all the pointers. CSG would be [[China Study Group]], as mentioned in the [[India-China Border Roads|ICBR]] article too. CSG would be notable enough for its own article. GS roads or general staff roads (not the better sounding geostrategic) have been annotated in the article. The improvements to the article are quite a handful. A meta article makes sense and in a way the framework has already been laid down in ICBR. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 11:13, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

==California nut crimes==

Thank you for your work on that article! [[California nut crimes]]. Fun article. I hope you don't mind that I added a new category to it for "Thefts of food" into which I also stuck the article [[Great Canadian Maple Syrup Heist]]. I did some googling and saw that there are a couple of dozen other well-known food-theft situations :) [[User:Novellasyes|Novellasyes]] ([[User talk:Novellasyes|talk]]) 13:35, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

: [[User:Novellasyes|Novellasyes]], yes, I did notice the grouping you did. Thanks! One thing about the category - "Thefts of food".... to make it similar to other theft-related categories "Food theft" would be a more appropriate label. As for the other food thefts... I had sniffed around a little online too and it seems a hopeful topic :D "Fun" is the word you used! I had even checked if "food theft" or "food crime" were separate articles, which they are not, not even a proper section anywhere. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 09:18, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

:: I will change it [the category name] to "Food theft". thanks!! [[User:Novellasyes|Novellasyes]] ([[User talk:Novellasyes|talk]]) 14:08, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

== July 2020 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, I'm [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]]. I wanted to let you know that one or more of [[Special:Contributions/DiplomatTesterMan|your recent contributions]]&nbsp;to [[:Islamophobia]] have been undone because they did not appear constructive. Thanks.<!-- Template:uw-vandalism1 --> [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] &#124; [[User talk:Bishonen|tålk]] 09:57, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
: [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] Are you sure about this? I made the edit carefully. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 10:01, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
: [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] the movies both express and depict.... we are 50/50 [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 10:05, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
: I have personally seen some of the movies. (Not saying I am a source lol, just saying generally.) [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 10:06, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
::OK, I haven't seen them, but I've read our articles about them. It seemed obvious to me that they are, well, islamophobic movies — that anti-islam is their message. I do think "depict" is misleading, because with that addition, the sentence means pretty much the opposite. If you think it's important enough, could you please start a discussion on talk, per [[WP:BRD]]? [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] &#124; [[User talk:Bishonen|tålk]] 10:28, 25 July 2020 (UTC).
:::  [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]].  [[My Name is Khan]] is certainly not anti-Islamic. SRK in the movie is a Muslim who is treated in an Islamophobic way by some of the characters. The movie in itself tries to show Muslims in a good light! Let me go through the articles and the references and I will let you know in a more wikified manner. Yes, the discussion should be on the talk page. {{moved to|Talk:Islamophobia}} [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 02:26, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

==DYK for National Intelligence Law==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
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|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#28 July 2020|28 July 2020]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[National Intelligence Law]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that Chinese citizens are '''[[National Intelligence Law|lawfully required to spy]]''' for the state?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/National Intelligence Law]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2020-07-18&end=2020-08-07&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=National_Intelligence_Law National Intelligence Law])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 00:03, 28 July 2020 (UTC)


==DYK for Gunjan Saxena==
{{ivmbox
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|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#18 August 2020|18 August 2020]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Gunjan Saxena]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that '''[[Gunjan Saxena]]''' was the first woman [[Indian Air Force]] officer to go to war?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Gunjan Saxena]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2020-08-08&end=2020-08-28&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Gunjan_Saxena Gunjan Saxena])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 12:01, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

==DYK for Communist China and the Free World's Future==
{{ivmbox
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|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#22 August 2020|22 August 2020]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Communist China and the Free World's Future]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that in '''[[Communist China and the Free World's Future|a 2020 speech]]''', U.S. secretary of state [[Mike Pompeo]] ''(pictured)'' said that [[Cinema of the United States|Hollywood]] self-censors when it comes to China?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Communist China and the Free World's Future]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2020-08-12&end=2020-09-01&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Communist_China_and_the_Free_World%27s_Future Communist China and the Free World's Future])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 00:01, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

== Delhi Riots 2020: The Untold Story ==

A book titled "Delhi Riots 2020: The Untold Story" is set to launch today. It's published by Bloomsbury and Kapil Mishra is invited to the launch event. I'm sure that'll get lots of coverage and reviews. Any plans for an article on that? Thanks, [[User:TryKid|TryKid]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/TryKid|dubious]] – [[User talk:TryKid|discuss]]'']</sup> 00:41, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
: [[User:TryKid|TryKid]], there aren't many reviews as yet, not even an e-book. Apart from the ''Kapil Mishra-Bloomsbusry'' controversy, there isn't much in-depth coverage. Maybe at a later date, or maybe information can be picked up and used in the riots article (though I guess I won't be doing that, haven't been with that article long enough so it will end up taking me ages to add even just a line).  [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 09:44, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

::annnnnnd it's gone. Bloomsbury backs down from publishing. Should have just shifted it to "fiction" section instead of denying publication: free speech and all that. Regards, [[User:TryKid|TryKid]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/TryKid|dubious]] – [[User talk:TryKid|discuss]]'']</sup> 12:06, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

::: Seems like they are mimicking the covid vaccine announcements, [https://thewire.in/books/bloomsbury-withdraws-book-on-delhi-riots-launched-by-bjps-kapil-mishra The Wire writes]:
:::{{talkquote|Other publishers also raised questions on how a book could have been written, fact-checked, edited and published so quickly, given the sensitivity of the issue, the fact that the riots took place in late February this year and the police investigation, itself mired in allegations of bias, has not even been completed.}}
::: No one said this of the Shaheen Bagh books that have been published! Yes one is a riot another a protest but still!! Mention of this, the withdrawal, could still be made in the main article, [[2020 Delhi riots]]. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 14:54, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
==DYK nomination of Farooq Khan==
[[Image:Symbol question.svg|25px]] Hello! Your submission of [[Farooq Khan]] at the [[Template talk:DYK|Did You Know nominations page]] has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at '''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Farooq Khan|your nomination's entry]]''' and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! <!--Template:DYKproblem--> [[User:Flibirigit|Flibirigit]] ([[User talk:Flibirigit|talk]]) 05:40, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
:Specifically about QPQ. [[User:Vincent60030|<span style="color: orange">Vincent</span>]]<sup>[[User:Vincent60030/London Underground|<span style="color: red">LUFan</span>]]</sup> ([[User talk:Vincent60030|talk]]) <small>([[Special:Contributions/Vincent60030|Kenton!]])</small> 09:47, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
:: Noted [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 09:50, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

==DYK for Avrodh: The Siege Within==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
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|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#25 August 2020|25 August 2020]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Avrodh: The Siege Within]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that the web series '''''[[Avrodh: The Siege Within]]''''' meticulously details the planning for India's [[2016 Indian Line of Control strike|retaliatory military strike]] following the [[2016 Uri attack|2016 Uri terrorist attacks]]?''  You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2020-08-15&end=2020-09-04&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Avrodh:_The_Siege_Within Avrodh: The Siege Within])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  &nbsp;&mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 00:02, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
== Nomination of [[:KFC Srinagar]] for deletion ==
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article '''[[:KFC Srinagar]]''' is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to [[Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]] or whether it should be [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deleted]].

The article will be discussed at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/KFC Srinagar]] until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd notice --> <span style="border:1px solid blue;padding:1px;">[[User:Chinar|<span style="font-family:lucida calligraphy; color:#fef;background:green;"><i>'''Chinar'''</i></span>]]</span>([[User_talk:Chinar_Tree|Message]]) 16:23, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


== Your [[WP:Good articles|GA]] nomination of [[Rajinder Singh (brigadier)]] ==
The article [[Rajinder Singh (brigadier)]] you nominated as a [[Wikipedia:Good article nominations|good article]] has failed [[File:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]]; see [[Talk:Rajinder Singh (brigadier)]] for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. <!-- Template:GANotice result=fail --> <small>Message delivered by [[User:Legobot|Legobot]], on behalf of [[User:Peacemaker67|Peacemaker67]]</small> -- [[User:Peacemaker67|Peacemaker67]] ([[User talk:Peacemaker67|talk]]) 07:41, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

==DYK for National Education Policy 2020==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#28 August 2020|28 August 2020]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[National Education Policy 2020]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that under '''[[National Education Policy 2020|India's new education policy]]''', students will be allowed to combine fashion studies with physics, or baking courses with chemistry?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/National Education Policy 2020]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2020-08-18&end=2020-09-07&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=National_Education_Policy_2020 National Education Policy 2020])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 00:02, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
== Nomination of [[:All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Jammu]] for deletion ==
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article '''[[:All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Jammu]]''' is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to [[Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]] or whether it should be [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deleted]].

The article will be discussed at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Jammu]] until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd notice --> [[User:Muhandes|Muhandes]] ([[User talk:Muhandes|talk]]) 09:08, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
== Nomination of [[:All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Kashmir]] for deletion ==
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article '''[[:All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Kashmir]]''' is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to [[Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]] or whether it should be [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deleted]].

The article will be discussed at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Kashmir]] until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd notice --> [[User:Muhandes|Muhandes]] ([[User talk:Muhandes|talk]]) 09:08, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Original Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Hi thank you for adding more information on Russel K Haight  [[User:Adityanag2002|Adityanag2002]] ([[User talk:Adityanag2002|talk]]) 06:11, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
|}
: Thank you! [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 05:12, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

== Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations open ==

Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are now open. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Academy/Becoming a coordinator|here]]. If you are interested in running, please sign up '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators/September 2020|here]]''' by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting doesn't commence until 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators|coord team]]. [[User:Peacemaker67|Peacemaker67]]  ([[User_talk:Peacemaker67|click to talk to me]]) 02:04, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

==DYK for Farooq Khan==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#9 September 2020|9 September 2020]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Farooq Khan]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that '''[[Farooq Khan]]''' headed the Kashmiri [[Special Operations Group (Jammu and Kashmir)|Special Operations Group]] credited with the killing of more than 2,000 militants between 1994 and 1996?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Farooq Khan]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2020-08-30&end=2020-09-19&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Farooq_Khan Farooq Khan])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 00:03, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

==DYK for Onkar Singh Kalkat==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#12 September 2020|12 September 2020]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Onkar Singh Kalkat]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that Major '''[[Onkar Singh Kalkat|O. S. Kalkat]]''' stumbled upon plans of an invasion of Kashmir in 1947, but no one believed him until the invasion actually started?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Onkar Singh Kalkat]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2020-09-02&end=2020-09-22&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Onkar_Singh_Kalkat Onkar Singh Kalkat])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 00:01, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

==Discussion at [[:Talk:Main Page#Inaccurate fact in the leading hook|Talk:Main Page §&nbsp;Inaccurate fact in the leading hook]]==
[[File:Symbol watching blue lashes high contrast.svg|25px|link=|alt=]]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at [[:Talk:Main Page#Inaccurate fact in the leading hook|Talk:Main Page §&nbsp;Inaccurate fact in the leading hook]].  [[User:Deepak G Goswami|Deepak G Goswami]] ([[User talk:Deepak G Goswami|talk]]) 05:04, 15 September 2020 (UTC)<!-- [[Template:Please see]] -->
:: Thanks for the catch. Was a clear miss on my part. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 06:35, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

== Milhist coordinator election voting has commenced ==

G'day everyone, voting for the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators/September 2020|2020 Wikiproject Military history coordinator tranche]] is now open. This is a simple approval vote; only "support" votes should be made. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2020. Thanks from the outgoing coord team, [[User:Peacemaker67|Peacemaker67]]  ([[User_talk:Peacemaker67|click to talk to me]]) 05:17, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:Peacemaker67@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Members/Active&oldid=976953594 -->


== Your DYK nomination of [[Gunjan Saxena]] ==

Hiya I've reviewed [[Template:Did you know nominations/Gunjan Saxena]] and left some questions for you. Cheers, [[User:Mujinga|Mujinga]] ([[User talk:Mujinga|talk]]) 14:11, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
== ITN recognition for [[Kamal Rani Varun]] ==

{{ivmbox
  |1=On 3 August 2020, '''''[[:Template:In the news|In the news]]''''' was updated with an item that involved the article '''''[[Kamal Rani Varun]]''''', which you nominated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the [[Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates|candidates page]]. &nbsp;&mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 22:05, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
  |2={{Ambox globe current red}}
  |imagesize=50px
 }}

== ITN Blurb ==

Hello, please suggest a blurb here (you can put in the template directly) [[Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates#Ram_Mandir,_Ayodhya]]. Regards. --[[User:Titodutta|Titodutta]] ([[User_talk:Titodutta|talk]]) 10:11, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
: [[User:Titodutta|Titodutta]], thanks for nominating this as an ITN. I will try and think of alt blurbs. Maybe you can also put a message for this on the talk page of the Ram Mandir article too? [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 10:14, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
==DYK for California nut crimes==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#7 August 2020|7 August 2020]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[California nut crimes]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that one '''[[California nut crimes|California nut job]]''' can cost up to $500,000?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/California nut crimes]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2020-07-28&end=2020-08-17&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=California_nut_crimes California nut crimes])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  <span style="white-space: nowrap;">— [[User:Wugapodes|Wug·]][[User talk:Wugapodes|a·po·des]]</span> 20:33, 4 August 2020 (UTC) 00:02, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
==Disambiguation link notification for August 11==

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited [[Farooq Khan]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[Special Operations Group]]<!-- ([//dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Farooq_Khan check to confirm]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[//dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Farooq_Khan?client=notify fix with Dab solver])-->. 

([[User:DPL bot|Opt-out instructions]].) --[[User:DPL bot|DPL bot]] ([[User talk:DPL bot|talk]]) 06:20, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
== DYK notice ==

==DYK nomination of Avrodh the Siege Within==
[[Image:Symbol question.svg|25px]] Hello! Your submission of [[Avrodh the Siege Within]] at the [[Template talk:DYK|Did You Know nominations page]] has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at '''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Avrodh the Siege Within|your nomination's entry]]''' and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! <!--Template:DYKproblem--> [[User:Maury Markowitz|Maury Markowitz]] ([[User talk:Maury Markowitz|talk]]) 20:47, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
==DYK nomination of National Education Policy 2020==
[[Image:Symbol question.svg|25px]] Hello! Your submission of [[National Education Policy 2020]] at the [[Template talk:DYK|Did You Know nominations page]] has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at '''[[Template:Did you know nominations/National Education Policy 2020|your nomination's entry]]''' and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! <!--Template:DYKproblem--> [[User:Flibirigit|Flibirigit]] ([[User talk:Flibirigit|talk]]) 16:22, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
== Your [[WP:Good articles|GA]] nomination of [[Rajinder Singh (brigadier)]] ==
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article [[Rajinder Singh (brigadier)]] you nominated for [[WP:GA|GA]]-status according to the [[WP:WIAGA|criteria]]. [[File:Time2wait.svg|20px]] This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. <!-- Template:GANotice --> <small>Message delivered by [[User:Legobot|Legobot]], on behalf of [[User:Peacemaker67|Peacemaker67]]</small> -- [[User:Peacemaker67|Peacemaker67]] ([[User talk:Peacemaker67|talk]]) 04:21, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Original Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Dear DiplomatTesterMan, Thank you for your contributions to India-related articles. '''<i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;"><span style="color:#AC9F06;">❯❯❯</span>[[User:Pravega|<span style="color:#F93B12;">Pra</span><span style="color:#098922;">veg</span>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[User talk:Pravega|A=9.8]]</sup></i>''' 16:10, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
|}
: Thank you! [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 16:44, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
==Help needed==
Hi. The article [[Delhi Metropolitan Council]] has been nominated for copyvio. But I copied some parts of the Article from [[Delhi Legislative Assembly]] with credit and I think copying within wiki is allowed if given credit. So can you please add that to AFD or something else? Thank you. -- [[User:Manasbose|<span style="color:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Manasbose '''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Manasbose|<b style="color:blue">talk</b>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Manasbose|<b style="color:blue">contribs</b>]])</sup> 04:46, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
: also the articles which the copyvio tag mentions are just copy paste of [[Delhi Legislative Assembly]] article of Wikipedia. -- [[User:Manasbose|<span style="color:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Manasbose '''</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Manasbose|<b style="color:blue">talk</b>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Manasbose|<b style="color:blue">contribs</b>]])</sup> 05:07, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
:: [[User:Manasbose|Manasbose]], it isn't correct to copy within Wikipedia if the copy is an already introduced copyvio. But as far as I can tell the original text is not copyvio. https://www.insightsonindia.com/ link is dated 5 November 2014 while the wiki text was here on [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Delhi_Legislative_Assembly&oldid=632108911 2 Nov 2014]. The second link is 2017 so less confusion there related to copyvio. An editor has said the same on the talk page {{moved to|Talk:Delhi Metropolitan Council}} [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 08:11, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
== Battle of Namka Chu (what not to do) ==

[[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], two questions,
# This could do with its own article - [[Battle of Namka Chu]]. What do you think?
# Also, the Battle of Namka Chu is a good example of what NOT to do. Are there any other clear examples like this in independent India?
[[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 07:47, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
: I think the [[Dhola Post]] article should have all the content on the so-called "Battle of Namka Chu". Even though it is a catchy title, there wasn't really a "battle" there. Basically the Indian positions were overrun.
: Once a decision was taken to set up the Dhola Post, everything else flowed from it inexhorably. Somebody should have had the good sense to see that it was disputed territory, which should have been left for negotiation rather than military action.
: The current "Black Top" adventure is a clear parallel. Nobody knows where it is, whose hands it is in, whose hands it ''should be'' in. Nothing. Total confusion prevails. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 08:18, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}
I think I disagree that the Battle of Namka Chu is an example of "what not to do". 
* First of all, many people believe that India pressing its case at Namka Chu was the ''reason'' for the war. No, it wasn't. The reason for the war was that China decided ''a war was necessary''. The Namka Chu confrontation just served as an excuse. (If India is holding Black Top today, that can also similarly serve as an excuse.)
* But India's faults were galore. The location of the Dhola Post itself was stupid. It could not be supplied easily. It could be easily dominated from Thagla Ridge. It was north of Khinzemane, which itself was being disputed. So it was certain that the Dhola Post would also be disputed. But the local commanders weren't made aware of this. (They became aware by themselves, but not because the Army had thought things through and had a strategy for what to do about it.)
* When the Chinese tried to negotiate about it locally, they were rebuffed.
* When Umrao Singh said the Operation Leghorn was infeasible, nobody listened to him. Instead he was removed and replaced by Kaul, who was totally unfit for the job (including inability to acclimatize). And Kaul wasn't given enough troops either.
* When Kaul too backed out, Nehru shelved the Operation Leghorn, but still pretended in public as if it was going ahead. So, the Chinese were sent wrong signals. They genuinely thought Nehru was asking for a war, whereas he was just showing empty bravado. (Imagine!)
* And, nobody expected the possibility that Namka Chu could blow up into a full-scale war. Nobody was prepared for it when it happened.

I would say that the local negotiations should have been allowed, and if they didn't reach a resolution (as I would expect), the matter should have been escalated to senior levels. While this was going on, a token post could have been retained at Namka Chu, but the bulk of the force could have been withdrawn to Pangchen. The real battle, if at all it had to happen, should have happened at Pangchen, not at Namka Chu. Meanwhile, the entire Tawang district should have been reinforced. In the event, even the Tawang town was left undefended in order to support Namka Chu.

But the Henderson Brooks & Bhagat report goes out of line in declaring that Dhola Post was not Indian territory. It wasn't its job to make judgements on such matters. Practically everybody in the Army is convinced, even today, that the Dhola Post was in Chinese territory. Ajai Shukla writes, "{{tq|In one of the HBR's revelations, ''it emerges'' that Dhola was ''accidentally'' established on China's side of the McMahon Line.}}" So, as if the Army's faults weren't bad enough, HBR screwed it up even more, giving ammunition to the likes of Neville Maxwell. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 18:18, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
: {{tq|...the so-called "Battle of Namka Chu". Even though it is a catchy title, there wasn't really a "battle" there. Basically the Indian positions were overrun.}} >> There are many sources which use the phrase/title "Battle of Namka Chu", (a simple [https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBD_enIN880IN880&biw=1366&bih=625&sxsrf=ALeKk03SbwlgjCYi2KQTNbaLpyi8GVAU-A%3A1599645791493&ei=X6hYX5nRHdryrAGB9YSoAw&q=Battle+of+Namka+Chu&oq=Battle+of+Namka+Chu&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDFAAWABgoT9oAHAAeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQCqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjZ_Kv56NvrAhVaOSsKHYE6ATU4ChDh1QMIDQ Google search] conveys the same) though "Namka Chu incident" is also there. Anything with overrun in the header may be a bit too much even if that is what happened. The suggestion to shift it to [[Dhola Post]] post makes sense for now. {{moved to|Talk:Dhola Post}} Operation Leghorn redirected to [[Sino-Indian War]] {{moved to|Sino-Indian War}}
[[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 10:52, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

== Rating of importance for an article you created ==

Hello DiplomatTesterMan. I am writing to you about the Zhenhua Data Leak article you created. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zhenhua_Data_leak&diff=979119346&oldid=978839357]. I have a question. How did you get the article to be rated the way it did? [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Zhenhua_Data_leak&diff=978840776&oldid=978840740] I was thinking of adding the article to the Mass Surveillance WikiProject. However, I do not know how to get the rater to do it. Therefore i have come here to seek your help. Thank you for the help in advance! [[User:Fortliberty|Fortliberty]] ([[User talk:Fortliberty|talk]]) 09:47, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
: Add [[User:Evad37/rater|Rater]] script to your /common.js page. Installation and usage instructions are here [[User:Evad37/rater]]. Please note that ''"Code that you insert on this [/common.js] page could contain malicious content capable of compromising your account. If you import a script from another page with "importScript" or "iusc", take note that this causes you to dynamically load a remote script, which could be changed by others."'' Cheers. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 10:06, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
:: I went ahead and added the WikiProject. I removed the default parameter for importance. Everything else is default. Thanks. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 10:52, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

== September 2020 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hi, and thank you for [[Special:Contributions/DiplomatTesterMan|your contributions]] to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give a page a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into [[:Bilkis]]. This is known as a "[[Wikipedia:Administrators' guide/Fixing cut-and-paste moves|cut-and-paste move]]", and it is undesirable because it splits the [[Help:Page history|page history]], which is [[Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia|legally required for attribution]].  Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be ''moved'' to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is [[Wikipedia:Autoconfirmed|four days old and has ten edits]], you should be able to move an article yourself using the [[Help:Moving a page|"Move" tab]] at the top of the page (the tab may be [[:File:Vector hidden move button.png|hidden in a dropdown menu]] for you). This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect]] from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested moves]] to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at [[Wikipedia:Requests for history merge]]. Thank you. <!-- Template:uw-c&pmove --> [[User:Captain Calm|Captain Calm]] ([[User talk:Captain Calm|talk]]) 10:53, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

== You are merging to a moving target ==

Various Bilkis articles keep moving around! [[User:Timtrent|<span style="color:#800">Fiddle</span>]] [[User talk:Timtrent|<span style="color:#070">Faddle</span>]] 11:31, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
:[[User:Timtrent|Timtrent]], [[User:Captain Calm|Captain Calm]], sorry about the confusion with Bilkis. I made a mess of what I was trying do and I seem to have forgotten about merge and move procedure for a moment. I guess this calls from me to trout myself (notably, the first trout) 
{{trout}} 
:[[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 13:17, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}}; "
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[File:Keeshond Siberian Husky crossbreed puppy.jpg|100px|left]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''''What a cute puppy!'''''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | ''This cute puppy has been given to you for your recent moving performance.  Don't forget to train it.'' [[User:Timtrent|<span style="color:#800">Fiddle</span>]] [[User talk:Timtrent|<span style="color:#070">Faddle</span>]] 15:40, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
<!-- to get your own puppy, visit User:Timtrent/puppy -->
|}

== AfD Closure ==

I noticed that you closed the AfD [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bilkis Dadi]] today, despite being the one who created the AfD discussion. I remember that a nominator can only withdraw an AfD and close it as keep/speedy keep if all the votes there are for Keep. But, there's one delete vote at least which makes me believe that your AfD closure wasn't right. Any comments? <nowiki> ─ </nowiki> [[User:TheAafi|The Aafī]] (<sup>[[User talk:TheAafi|talk]]</sup>) 17:11, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
: [[User:TheAafi|The Aafī]], as you can see above, I admit I messed up my with Bilkis related activities; I rushed the closure and jumbled the page moves and merges. If you feel the AFD closure was incorrect, please restore it to an ongoing state so that it can continue according to normal procedure. I did notice the delete and the comment apart from the ayes, I shouldn't have closed it that soon. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 10:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

== Another mention ==

I see Ajai Shukla using your map of the Chushul sector in his talk in [https://jh.zoom.us/w/92465109877?tk=yLO2iv7m-wBYlXsEppkmXHBP_GPqQ4wRI5FBHmPkmxE.DQIAAAAVh1mbdRZjN0VTLVhxd1IyV3dYcTE0RldnbUVnAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA&pwd=SE55eURIVVBvTU9kQXJqRFd4MURjZz09&uuid=WN_H1SRaW62TLGizx_M1crX0g this debate]. Congratulations again! -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 16:37, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
: Oh ho! I missed the mention! [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 08:38, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

== Anchal Vohra ==

Can you see if you can do something about the page which I created? I see that you made a quick decision on the Bilkis Dadi AfD discussion. Lots of experienced Indian journalists do not seem to be present on Wikipedia. Even Mihir Sharma's page is looking pretty thin. I can easily add content there. Just because no one is adding content to a page doesn't mean it's not there. Same with the Anchal Vohra page. That's what I feel. Even the CEO of Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation didn't have a Wikipedia page. So, I created one for him. Now, it's in Draft.

Well ... I am new here. So. [[User:AltruisticHomoSapien|AltruisticHomoSapien]] ([[User talk:AltruisticHomoSapien|talk]]) 21:06, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
:Pages in this conversation:
:*[[Anchal Vohra]] > Currently an AFD nom
:*[[Bilkis Dadi]] > You just mentioned this without exactly stating if anything needs to be done
:*[[Mihir Sharma]] > One reference
:*[[Draft:Mark Suzman]] > This has no references. Even the reference used is a primary one. Can easily be improved.
:{{tq|Can you see if you can do something about the page which I created?}}; which page are you talking about?
:[[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 08:20, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Original Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Great work! [[User:AltruisticHomoSapien|AltruisticHomoSapien]] ([[User talk:AltruisticHomoSapien|talk]]) 21:09, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
|}
: "Great work"; is this related to anything specific or just generally? Either way, thanks! [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 08:37, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
:: [[User:AltruisticHomoSapien|AltruisticHomoSapien]], I have a new policy as written below. I can't accept barnstars until you let me know what it is for. No reason no barnstar. Vauge reason no barnstar. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 15:17, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

==Missing cite in [[North West Nuclear Weapons Research and Design Academy]]==
The article cites "Mehrotra 2000" but no such source is listed in bibliography. Can you please add? Also, suggest installing a script to highlight such errors in the future. All you need to do is copy and paste {{code|lang=js|importScript('User:Svick/HarvErrors.js'); // Backlink: [[User:Svick/HarvErrors.js]]}} to [[Special:MyPage/common.js|your common.js page]]. Thanks, [[User:Renata3|Renata]] ([[User talk:Renata3|talk]]) 21:35, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
: [[User:Renata3|Renata]]  A previous edit deleted the bibliography. The usage of the citation should be alright now. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 07:21, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
:: Thank you for the script suggestion. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 07:53, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

== Back to Depsang ==

I was strugglng to read the Sandhu book (which you will see cited at [[Depsang Plains]]), but eventually found a really nice summary here:
* P. J. S. Sandhu, [https://thewire.in/security/india-china-xi-jinping-lac-border-modi-1962-war It Is Time to Accept How Badly India Misread Chinese Intentions in 1962 – and 2020], The Wire, 21 July 2020.
This is a must-read for everybody thinking about the present conflict. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 16:57, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

: {{tq|Retaliate with short, fierce and sudden fire power, [...]; the shells may cross the border but personnel should not cross the border.}} In today's language it would be, "shells and missiles and drones and aircraft and satellites may cross the border but personnel should not cross the border".
: The question that Major Gen (retd) Sandhu asks is > {{tq|Why has China suddenly tried to change the rules of the game and how should India deal with the changed narrative?}} If the question was asked by someone from China, I assume the question would change to > "Why has '''India''' suddenly tried to change the rules of the game and how should '''China''' deal with the changed narrative?"
: I read the whole thing without noticing the date. I was surprised to see it was published in July. It sounded as if it was ''just'' written. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 09:05, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
:: The question as to why India "changed the rules of the game" is easy to read from the tons of the newsreports and commentaries.
:: The date of the article is surprising in that it didn't show up on our searches till now. ''The Wire'' doesn't understand how we find information. It thinks that people read it like they read a newspaper. (I found the article only because I searched for "[[Depsang Plains#1962 war|Red Top Hill]]", which apparently only Sandhu knows about. But the location of this place is still not clear.) -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 10:40, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
:: Oh, the most valuable thing for me from the article was the mention that the Depsang Bulge was "straightened out", so that I didn't have to [[WP:SYNTHNOT|synthesize]] it myself. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 10:45, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

==DYK for India–Tibet relations==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#8 October 2020|8 October 2020]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[India–Tibet relations]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that the number of '''[[India–Tibet relations|Tibetan refugees in India]]''' decreased by 44 per cent between 2011 and 2018?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/India–Tibet relations]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2020-09-28&end=2020-10-18&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=India%E2%80%93Tibet_relations India–Tibet relations])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 00:02, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

== The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[File:WikiDefender_Barnstar.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" |  Thanks for maintaining the integrity of the Wikipedia. [[User:Zakaria1978|Zakaria1978 ښه راغلاست]] ([[User talk:Zakaria1978|talk]]) 19:26, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
|}
: [[User:Zakaria1978|Zakaria1978 ښه راغلاست]], thank you! But why? What have I done that helps in maintaining Wikipedia's integrity? [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 09:45, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
:: I don't think I can accept this until you let me know what it is for. I think I will have to make this a rule from now, no reason no barnstar. vauge reason no barnstar. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 15:15, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
:::{{ping|DiplomatTesterMan}} after Kautilya3 tagged you on my page, I was curious who the user was, so I looked at your contributions and found your updates on [[Timeline of the 2020 China–India skirmishes]] and [[Shaheen Bagh Protests]] very useful. But, if you are annoyed by the barnstar, I will remove it. Let me know. [[User:Zakaria1978|Zakaria1978 ښه راغلاست]] ([[User talk:Zakaria1978|talk]]) 02:39, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
:::: [[User:Zakaria1978|Zakaria1978 ښه راغلاست]] No no no! No need to remove it. You've given the explanation. I'm happy that you noticed the one on Shaheen Bagh. Thanks! [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 14:05, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
::::: {{u|DiplomatTesterMan}}, got it. Again, good work. [[User:Zakaria1978|Zakaria1978 ښه راغلاست]] ([[User talk:Zakaria1978|talk]]) 23:37, 16 October 2020 (UTC)
{{od}}{{tps}} He's a new editor, with an advertised user-information of Pakistani, who appears to alternate between gnomish edits on Pakistan related pages and POV edits on India-related. In terms of my interaction, at first, he was opposing me obliquely (''e.g.'' should Kamala Harris be described as South Asian American (her senate website's language, and my position) or Indian-American (his position)) and then more directly and persistingly.  Soon after I saw him handing out barnstars to various people who had either also opposed me or taken an independent position.  Sometimes they are even Pakistan Merit Barnstars! Very unusual if you ask me.  But you don't fit the statistic; I don't recall you opposing me, or vice versa.  Anyway, here was my two cents. At the worst this could be a misguided attempt at soliciting support; at best, it could be honest appreciation, and the POV implication accidental.  I'm not sure, but it bears watching.  There is also the issue of devaluing indeed deflating the significance of a barnstar.  Although there are no benchmarks there, and they indeed can be handed out by anonymous users, they tend to be more direct in terms of what it is they appreciate, and less profligate (he's handed out 20+ barnstars in the last two weeks).  [[User:Fowler&amp;fowler|<span style="color:#B8860B">Fowler&amp;fowler</span>]][[User talk:Fowler&amp;fowler|<span style="color:#708090">«Talk»</span>]] 12:45, 18 October 2020 (UTC) Updated [[User:Fowler&amp;fowler|<span style="color:#B8860B">Fowler&amp;fowler</span>]][[User talk:Fowler&amp;fowler|<span style="color:#708090">«Talk»</span>]] 12:53, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
: [[User:Fowler&fowler|Fowler&fowler]], thank you for the comments. While you said some points that were already on my mind, your explanation covers a broader scope. As for including barnstars into the background checks of users, I think I will lay out some brief rules/guidelines at the top of this talk page related to giving/awarding  barnstars... [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 15:21, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Original Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | My first ever barnstar to anyone goes to you for your contribution to several articles, especially for putting hard work into multiple IndoChina articles, ladakh related articles, infrastructure related articles such as [[India-China Border Roads]] and for promptly creating [[China's salami slicing]] article.
Thank you! [[Special:Contributions/58.182.176.169|58.182.176.169]] ([[User talk:58.182.176.169|talk]]) 15:31, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
|}
: Thank you so much!! .... you added "and for promptly creating China's salami slicing article"... this made me laugh. Let's hope the article can survive tougher scrutiny as well and develop for the better. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 13:30, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
== Nomination for deletion of [[Template:Indian administered territories adjoining China administered territories]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning blue.svg|30px|link=]][[Template:Indian administered territories adjoining China administered territories]] has been [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion|nominated for deletion]]. You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2020 November 10#Template:Indian administered territories adjoining China administered territories|the entry on the Templates for discussion page]].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> ''[[User:Mehrajmir13|<span style="background:white"><span style="color:green;">&nbsp;Mehra<span style="color:red;">j</span>Mir&nbsp;</span></span>]]''[[User talk:Mehrajmir13|(talk)]] 14:04, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
:[[User:Mehrajmir13|Mehrajmir13]], long time no see! Where have you been all this time? As for this deletion nom, you'll get the template deleted. I would also agree to delete it. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 17:07, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
:: Template deleted via CSD. Will do the cleanup. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 18:16, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
== Breather ==

{{holiday}}

==Missing cite in [[Dumchele]]==
The article cites "Bhattacharji 2012" but no such source is listed in the bibliography. Can you please add? Also, suggest installing a script to highlight such errors in the future. All you need to do is copy and paste {{code|lang=js|importScript('User:Svick/HarvErrors.js'); // Backlink: [[User:Svick/HarvErrors.js]]}} to [[Special:MyPage/common.js|your common.js page]]. Thanks, [[User:Renata3|Renata]] ([[User talk:Renata3|talk]]) 02:46, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
: {{done}}. I took care of the citation. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 00:10, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
== Happy Diwali 2020 ==

[[File:Rangoli on Diwali 2020 at Moga, Punjab, India.jpg|thumb|200px|Happy Diwali]]
Hello DiplomatTesterMan,<br>
Hope you are doing well.<br>
Wishing you a happy, safe, and prosperous [[:Diwali]]. Stay safe. Regards.
--[[User:Titodutta|Titodutta]] ([[User_talk:Titodutta|talk]]) 18:56, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
: [[User:Titodutta|Titodutta]], a very belated thank you!
: I saw a wonderful wish this season - ''Wish you all a very happy Diwali, Kali Puja, New Year, Naraka Chaturdashi, Kedara Gauri Vrata, Children's Day, Lakshmi Puja, Hanuman Puja, Bandi Chhor Divas, Mahavir Nirvana Divas, and Tihar, dear India.'' [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 05:25, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

==DYK nomination of Jointness and integration in the Indian military==
[[File:Symbol question.svg|25px]] Hello! Your submission of [[Jointness and integration in the Indian military]] at the [[Template talk:DYK|Did You Know nominations page]] has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at '''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Jointness and integration in the Indian military|your nomination's entry]]''' and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! <!--Template:DYKproblem--> [[User:SL93|SL93]] ([[User talk:SL93|talk]]) 19:03, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

==DYK nomination of Jointness and integration in the Indian military==
[[File:Symbol question.svg|25px]] Hello! Your submission of [[Jointness and integration in the Indian military]] at the [[Template talk:DYK|Did You Know nominations page]] has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at '''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Jointness and integration in the Indian military|your nomination's entry]]''' and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! <!--Template:DYKproblem--> [[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]] ([[User talk:Yoninah|talk]]) 21:00, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

== Kashmir 1934 ==

[[File:Diwali Celebration 03.jpg|thumb|left]]
Hi DTM, hope you had a good Diwali! Glad to see you back.

I had the [[1934 Jammu and Kashmir Praja Sabha election]] for ages in my drafts and you spurred me to get it out. There is a lot about pre-independence Kashmir that is not well-understood. (Not that post-independence Kashmir is well understood either, but at least we talk about it.)

I couldn't get the Infobox on the page to work. I wonder if you can take a look. Pinging also {{U|Arjayay}} and {{U|Gotitbro}}. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:49, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
:{{done}} - I think - [[Template:Infobox election]] states<br>"type  = <nowiki><!-- presidential, parliamentary, legislative, primary, or by-election --><!-- MANDATORY, and limited to the preceding five types --></nowiki>"<br>It previously said "princely state" - not one of the five options - [[User:Arjayay|Arjayay]] ([[User talk:Arjayay|talk]]) 08:56, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
:: [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], I saw a wonderful seasons wish this Diwali — ''Wish you all a very happy Diwali, Kali Puja, New Year, Naraka Chaturdashi, Kedara Gauri Vrata, Children's Day, Lakshmi Puja, Hanuman Puja, Bandi Chhor Divas, Mahavir Nirvana Divas, and Tihar, dear India.'' {{tq|Glad to see you back}} — not fully back as yet!
:: I am glad you got the 1934 page out! The bibliography as usual is solid and helped me expand the election in JK page. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 05:31, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
::: Yup, Tihar is all seasons rolled into one. With Biden back, there is hope! -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 14:33, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

==Durrani's new book==
Have you heard about Asad Durrani's new book "Honour Among Spies"? It's a [https://youtube.com/watch?v=NESjz6MuB6M "thinly disguised fiction"], pretty interesting. And I think I see enough reviews on a quick Google search for a new Wikipedia article. Regards, [[User:TryKid|TryKid]]&thinsp;<sup style="white-space:nowrap;">[''[[Special:Contributions/TryKid|dubious]] – [[User talk:TryKid|discuss]]'']</sup> 05:28, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

== ArbCom 2020 Elections voter message ==

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<tr><td style="vertical-align:middle; padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;">[[File:Scale of justice 2.svg|40px]]</td><td>Hello! Voting in the '''[[WP:ACE2020|2020 Arbitration Committee elections]]''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2020|end}}-1 day}}. All '''[[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2020#Election timeline|eligible users]]''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2020 election, please review [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2020/Candidates|the candidates]] and submit your choices on the '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2020|poll}}|voting page]]'''.  If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 02:35, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
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==Pls split the article==
I have expanded the [[DG Sea Connect]]. Please split it into 2 articles by moving the [[DG_Sea_Connect#Other_RORO_in_India]] section to a new namespace [[RORO ferries in India]], also copy paste the "see also" section into the new article from the existing "DG Sea Connect". Apart from that no other chanegs are needed as the sources/references used in both are mutually exclusive. Thanks in advance. [[Special:Contributions/58.182.176.169|58.182.176.169]] ([[User talk:58.182.176.169|talk]]) 10:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
: Hold on a minute! You know how to split articles right? [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 13:34, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
:: Split done! [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 10:38, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

==DYK nomination of Three Warfares==
[[File:Symbol question.svg|25px]] Hello! Your submission of [[Three Warfares]] at the [[Template talk:DYK|Did You Know nominations page]] has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at '''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Three Warfares|your nomination's entry]]''' and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! <!--Template:DYKproblem--> [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 21:22, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

== Study on Hindi, Urdu, and English Wikipedia articles about the Jammu and Kashmir conflict ==

A short research paper on the [[Revocation of the special status of Jammu and Kashmir|revocation of Article 370 of the Constitution of India]] and other recent events in and concerning the region of Jammu and Kashmir was published in June 2020 titled -
: <small>"''Wiki HUEs: Understanding Wikipedia practices through Hindi, Urdu, and English takes on evolving regional conflict''" Proceedings of the 2020 International Conference on Information and Communication Technologies and Development. ICTD2020. Guayaquil, Ecuador. Authored by Molly G. Hickman, Viral Pasad, Harsh Sanghavi, Jacob Thebault-Spieker, Sang Won Lee (Computer Science, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University Blacksburg, Virginia)[https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3392561.3397586 source]</small>
Five editors were interviewed for this study — 1 from Pakistan, 1 from US, 3 from India.
The report is five pages. A paragraph says
{{talk quote|As another incident on the English Kashmir conflict page (A2), two editors made the same revision at two different times (January 22, 2019 and August 6, 2019), removing a section related to human rights violations by Indian forces against Kashmiris. On both occasions, the removal was undone by another editor within fewer than fifteen minutes [1, 2].}}
[[User:MarkH21|MarkH21]], just for your information if you haven't already seen it, this quoted line refers to one of your [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kashmir_conflict&type=revision&diff=909554720&oldid=909554572 edits].
Signpost also mentioned this research study [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2020-08-30/Recent_research|SP Recent Research August 2020]]
[[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 05:45, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
:Huh, very interesting! Thanks for the heads up! — <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;font-size:100%;color:black;background-color:transparent;;">[[User:MarkH21|MarkH<sub><small>21</small></sub>]]<sup>[[User talk:MarkH21|<span style="background-color:navy; color:white;">talk</span>]]</sup></span> 08:16, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

==DYK for Jointness and integration in the Indian military==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions/2020/December#2 December 2020|2 December 2020]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Jointness and integration in the Indian military]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that '''[[Jointness and integration in the Indian military|inter-service cooperation]]''' was one of the most important lessons of the [[Bangladesh Liberation War|Bangladesh war]] for India?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Jointness and integration in the Indian military]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2020-11-22&end=2020-12-12&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Jointness_and_integration_in_the_Indian_military Jointness and integration in the Indian military])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 00:01, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
== Tibet ==

[[:fr:Tibet_(homonymie)]]. The French have it cased. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 11:56, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
: I should have been paying more attention during my french classes when I was young! That aside, {{tq|have it cased}} — do you mean something related to the disambg page — [[Tibet (disambiguation)]] — or gendered? Going through the other languages [[:es:Tíbet (desambiguación)]] and [[:de:Tibet (Begriffsklärung)]]........ I don't quite follow? [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 14:51, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

:: cased as in complete! [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 16:26, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
::: Yeah, fixed and perfected. That is just the index page. If you go through the individual pages, you will see the substance. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:54, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
:::: [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], funnily, I tried making [[Tibet (disambiguation)]] more like the French one [[:fr:Tibet_(homonymie)]] — and got reverted. Now I am not going to justify my actions using the French page since that could lead to the French page being sorted out too! :D [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 13:41, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
::::: Actually, let's see. [[User:Bkonrad|Bkonrad]] —My [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tibet_(disambiguation)&diff=987808189&oldid=987789470 edits] which you reverted were inspired from the French version of the page. Does the French version need cleaning up too? [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 13:46, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
::::: And sorry for the tag over here, you can shift the discussion to the respective talk page of course. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 13:48, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
:::::: I know nothing about the standards used for disambiguation on the French Wikipedia. No reason to expect them to be the same from one language to another. [[User:Bkonrad|older]] ≠ [[User talk:Bkonrad|wiser]] 15:57, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
==China's salami slice strategy==
Bhai ram ram, 

This is often talked topic, but did not come across any wiki article. There is [[salami tactics]] which had one sentence which said "India accuses china of salami slice tactic". I spent few hours and expanded it significantly, added dimensions/elements/aspects/components of the strategy, and described each component with examples. Here is the result [[Salami_tactics#China%27s_salami_slice_strategy|China's salami slice strategy]] 

I have piped it to all other related articles to drive multidirectional traffic, and consequently better chances of improvement in the article. Please review/enhance, my first cut. 

I think we should portion it out into a brand new article. If you agree then please go ahead and do so, in such a manner that existing piping to the existing anchored section would somehow redirect to the new article. If it is not possible, then let me know, I know of remember which places I have piped it to, perhaps nearly 10 or so. Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/58.182.176.169|58.182.176.169]] ([[User talk:58.182.176.169|talk]]) 15:31, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

: Thanks bhai for portioning out. I intend to make the following enhancement:
: A. Risks: 1. to perpetrator/China and 2. to victim/target nation, will use this [https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/russia-china-and-risk-salami-tactics tis lowy institute article] as starting point.
: B. Nation specific subsections: Aggregate info on all 7 dimensions of salamai slicing to explain how China as targeted specific nation, i.e. subsection on each nation
: C. Summary table: it will have 9 columns, 1 for the country name, 7 columns for 7 dimensions of slicing, 1 for comments. Capture Y/N to demonstrate which dimension as been deployed by China against each nation (along with Y/N, in the cell I will add piped specific articles in parenthesis)
: Let me know if you have other suggestions or come across some interesting source. 
: This seems like multi year project. 
: Tanks again. Hugs. [[Special:Contributions/58.182.176.169|58.182.176.169]] ([[User talk:58.182.176.169|talk]]) 12:13, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
:: [[Special:Contributions/58.182.176.169|58.182.176.169]], not just a ''multi year project'' but a ''multi lifetime project''. Even though I have portioned it out without questioning the content in any way, the content has certain "grey area" issues which I will try to chalk out on the talk page sooner or later. You asked for a "review/enhance", this is pending. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 13:25, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
::: I have made a few changes, not sure if it is ''enhanching'' the article as you had put it. Regards. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 15:13, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

== Names of new ITBP K9 soldiers ==

ITBP [[Belgian Malinois]] pups — "By naming these little K9 soldiers with 100 per cent desi names and that too from the areas guarded by the force, the combat dogs wing of the force aims to acknowledge its own legacy and ethos" ([https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/schools/itbp-names-its-osama-hunter-pups-after-locations-along-ladakh-front-179947#:~:text=The%2017%20pups%2C%20born%20at,%2C%20Chung%2DThung%20and%20Khardungi. source])
#[[Ane-la]] ([[Hanle (village)|Hanle]])
#[[Galwan]]
#[[Sasoma]]
#[[Shyok]]
#[[Chang Chenmo River|Chang-Chenmo]]
#[[Chip Chap River|Chip-Chap]]
#[[Daulat Beg Oldi|Daulat]]
#[[Rezang La|Rezang]]
#[[Rango]]
#[[Charding Nullah|Charding]]
#[[Imis]] ([[Hanle (village)|Hanle]])
#[[Yula]]
#[[Sirijap|Srijap]]
#[[Sultan-Chuksu]]
#[[Mukhpri]] ([[Rezang La]])
#[[Chungthang|Chung-Thung]]
#[[Khardungi]] ([[Khardung La]])
Spot any redlinks which are already articles, just not linked correctly?
[[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 14:14, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
: [[Sultan-Chuksu]].... where are you? [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 14:31, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
: [https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5919481790 here! a Village in the Nubra tehsil] [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 14:31, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
== Need to talk to you urgently ==

Hi, there.
This is Mohsin Kamal, a journalist based in Kashmir. I wanted to talk to you regarding something. Is it possible for you to drop a mail at mohsinkamal286@gmail.com, please. 

Thanks 
Hoping to hear from you very soon. [[User:Mohsinkamal64|Mohsin Kamal]] ([[User talk:Mohsinkamal64|talk]]) 18:03, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
: I dropped you a mail. But I would prefer that the conversation happened here if you don't mind. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 07:39, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Could you please check the mail instead? I'll be grateful. Thanks [[User:Mohsinkamal64|Mohsin Kamal]] ([[User talk:Mohsinkamal64|talk]]) 13:38, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

==Incomplete DYK nomination==
[[File:Symbol question.svg|25px]] Hello! Your submission of '''[[Template:Did you know nominations/Mental health in India]]''' at the [[Template talk:DYK|Did You Know nominations page]] is not complete; if you would like to continue, please link the nomination to the nominations page as described in [[Template talk:Did you know#How to post a new nomination|step 3 of the nomination procedure]]. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{tl|db-g7}}, or ask a [[WP:Did you know/Admins|DYK admin]]. Thank you. <!--Template:DYK nomination needs transcluded--> [[User:DYKHousekeepingBot|DYKHousekeepingBot]] ([[User talk:DYKHousekeepingBot|talk]]) 12:45, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
== ITN recognition for [[2020 Indian farmers' protest]] ==

{{ivmbox
  |1=On 7 December 2020, '''''[[:Template:In the news|In the news]]''''' was updated with an item that involved the article '''''[[2020 Indian farmers' protest]]''''', which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the [[Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates|candidates page]]. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 14:35, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  |2={{Ambox globe current red}}
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== Merry Christmas! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 4px solid #FFD700;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 2px;" | [[File:Wikipedia Happy New Year.png|211px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 2px 2px 0 2px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2021!'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |
----
'''Hello DiplomatTesterMan, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this [[Christmas and holiday season|seasonal occasion]]. Spread the [[Wikipedia:WikiLove|WikiLove]] by wishing another user a [[Christmas|Merry Christmas]] and a [[New Year|Happy New Year]], whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2021. <br />Happy editing,'''<br />
[[User:Fylindfotberserk|Fylindfotberserk]] ([[User talk:Fylindfotberserk|talk]]) 11:28, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

''{{resize|96%|Spread the love by adding {{tls|Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.}}''
|}
: [[User:Fylindfotberserk|Fylindfotberserk]], thank you so much! ''<small>{{emoji|1F387}} This Christmas, apart from YouTube recommending some wonderful Christmas songs and unpacking and setting up our 20+ year old {{emoji|267B}} Christmas tree once again {{emoji|1F384}}, I got a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr8PsGaD42A WhatsApp forward] with Jingle Bells sung in delightful [[Bhojpuri]]; and another [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV331ICByZM forward] with Santa {{emoji|1F385}} dancing to an Indianised Ed Sheeran's Shape of You in a magnificent lower resembling a dhoti/lungi/patiala and gifting us the COVID-19 vaccine!</small>'' A very merry Christmas to you too and a Happy New Year...{{emoji|1F4AB}}{{emoji|2744}}{{emoji|1F386}} [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 16:04, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
::Thanks man {{p}} and thak you for those videos [[File:Face-grin.svg|20px]]. - [[User:Fylindfotberserk|Fylindfotberserk]] ([[User talk:Fylindfotberserk|talk]]) 16:16, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

== Some baklava for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Baklava - Turkish special, 80-ply.JPEG|135px]]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Happy editing! Wishing you and your loved ones a great next year and beyond. [[User:Zakaria1978|Zakaria ښه راغلاست]] ([[User talk:Zakaria1978|talk]]) 03:59, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
|}
: [[User:Zakaria1978|Zakaria ښه راغلاست]], <small>I always wondered what baklava was whenever I would see it among the food gift items on Wiki; so this time I clicked the link to the article. I have never had it! Something to look forward to indeed! You can't actually guess from this image as to what it is other than say a pie or pastry though the full description reminds me of [[Gujia]] (yum).</small> Thank you for the wishes and happy editing to you too! {{emoji|1F387}} [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 13:16, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
::It is very good. For me, it is for sure one of the world's best types of dessert. Give it a try. I am not sure where you live, but from the pictures you have uploaded, it seems like you have been to Delhi in India, as such, I Googled it and this website provides locations where to find the best Baklava in Delhi. Give it a try. Happy New Year! [https://so.city/amp/delhi/indulging-our-insatiable-sweet-tooth-we-found-the-best-places-for-baklava-in-delhi.html "Indulging Our Insatiable Sweet Tooth, We Found The Best Places For Baklava in Delhi"] [[User:Zakaria1978|Zakaria ښه راغلاست]] ([[User talk:Zakaria1978|talk]]) 16:29, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

== ITN recognition for [[Karima Baloch]] ==

{{ivmbox
  |1=On 27 December 2020, '''''[[:Template:In the news|In the news]]''''' was updated with an item that involved the article '''''[[Karima Baloch]]''''', which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the [[Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates|candidates page]]. [[User:Stephen|Step]][[User talk:Stephen|hen]] 11:41, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
  |2={{Ambox globe current red}}
  |imagesize=50px
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== Voting for "Military Historian of the Year" and "Military history newcomer of the year" closing ==

G'day all, voting for the WikiProject Military history "'''[[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history#Voting|Military Historian of the Year]]'''" and "'''[[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history#Voting_2|Military history newcomer of the year]]'''" is about to close, so if you haven't already, click on the links and have your say before 23:59 (GMT) on 30 December! [[User:Peacemaker67|Peacemaker67]]  ([[User_talk:Peacemaker67|click to talk to me]]) 23:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC) for the coord team
<!-- Message sent by User:Peacemaker67@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Members/Active&oldid=995858506 -->

== Welcome to the 2021 WikiCup! ==

Happy New Year and Happy New WikiCup! The competition begins today and all article creators, expanders, improvers and reviewers are welcome to take part. If you have already signed up, your submissions page can be found '''[[Wikipedia:WikiCup|here]]'''. If you have not yet signed up, you can '''[[Wikipedia:WikiCup/2021 signups|add your name here]]''' and the judges will set up your submissions page. Any questions on the rules or on anything else should be directed to one of the judges, or posted to the [[Wikipedia talk:WikiCup|WikiCup talk page]]. Signups will close at the end of January, and the first round will end on 26 February; the 64 highest scorers at that time will move on to round 2. We thank [[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde93]] and [[User:Godot13|Godot13]], who have retired as judges, and we thank them for their past dedication. The judges for the WikiCup this year are {{User4|Sturmvogel 66}} and {{User4|Cwmhiraeth}}. Good luck! [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 11:10, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
<!-- Message sent by User:Cwmhiraeth@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send&oldid=997607437 -->
==Concern regarding [[Draft:List of locations along the Line of Actual Control]]==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, DiplomatTesterMan. I just wanted to let you know that [[Draft:List of locations along the Line of Actual Control]], a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months.  Draft space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for [[WP:MAINSPACE|article space]].

If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion under [[WP:G13|CSD G13]].  If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it. {{#if:||You may request [[WP:USERFY|userfication]] of the content if it meets requirements.}}

If the deletion has already occured, instructions on how you may be able to retrieve it are available [[WP:REFUND/G13|here]].

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. [[User:FireflyBot|FireflyBot]] ([[User talk:FireflyBot|talk]]) 14:01, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Chinese media ==

Health warning. This [https://www.bbc.com/zhongwen/simp/world-52826828 report] from BBC-Chinese comes labelled as "Complicated". I hope you can manage to read it anyway. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 04:20, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Your [[WP:Good articles|GA]] nomination of [[Karima Baloch]] ==
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article [[Karima Baloch]] you nominated for [[WP:GA|GA]]-status according to the [[WP:WIAGA|criteria]]. [[File:Time2wait.svg|20px]] This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. <!-- Template:GANotice --> <small>Message delivered by [[User:Legobot|Legobot]], on behalf of [[User:Z1720|Z1720]]</small> -- [[User:Z1720|Z1720]] ([[User talk:Z1720|talk]]) 01:42, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Your [[WP:Good articles|GA]] nomination of [[Karima Baloch]] ==
The article [[Karima Baloch]] you nominated as a [[Wikipedia:Good article nominations|good article]] has been placed on hold [[File:Symbol wait.svg|20px]]. The article is close to meeting the [[WP:GA?|good article criteria]], but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See [[Talk:Karima Baloch]] for issues which need to be addressed. <!-- Template:GANotice result=hold --> <small>Message delivered by [[User:Legobot|Legobot]], on behalf of [[User:Z1720|Z1720]]</small> -- [[User:Z1720|Z1720]] ([[User talk:Z1720|talk]]) 02:22, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
==GAN of Karima Baloch==

Hi DTM, I placed your good article nomination of [[Karima Baloch]] on hold a couple of days ago, but haven't received a response. Are you interested in continuing this nomination? If so, please comment on the GAN at [[Talk:Karima Baloch/GA1]]. If not, please let me know so I can fail the nomination remove it from the GAN list. Let me know what you want to do. [[User:Z1720|Z1720]] ([[User talk:Z1720|talk]]) 22:29, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Your [[WP:Good articles|GA]] nomination of [[Karima Baloch]] ==
The article [[Karima Baloch]] you nominated as a [[Wikipedia:Good article nominations|good article]] has failed [[File:Symbol oppose vote.svg|20px]]; see [[Talk:Karima Baloch]] for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. <!-- Template:GANotice result=fail --> <small>Message delivered by [[User:Legobot|Legobot]], on behalf of [[User:Z1720|Z1720]]</small> -- [[User:Z1720|Z1720]] ([[User talk:Z1720|talk]]) 15:22, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Original Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thank You [[User:Luckylukee81|Luckylukee81]] ([[User talk:Luckylukee81|talk]]) 12:51, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
|}
: I will accept this barnstar, no questions asked. Thank you very much. The original barnstar is one of the coolest ones. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 11:45, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Template:Map of Ladakh ==

I am annoyed by [[:Template:Map of Ladakh]]. The reason is that it appears in a maintenance list and I have no clue where the problem is coming from. The maintenance list says that it has a link to de disambiguation page [[Hanle]] but I can not find any link to that page. They are all set to [[Hanle (village)]] or unlinked. Can you help me find the naughty link? <span style="border:1px solid green; padding:0 2px">[[User:The Banner|<span style="color:green">The&nbsp;Banner</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:The Banner|<i style="color:maroon">talk</i>]]</span> 22:32, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
: {{u|The Banner}}, in this [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Map_of_Ladakh&diff=prev&oldid=1007815835 edit] I have identified the "naughty link". On removing it the issue seems to sort itself out. While it was correctly linked to [[Hanle (village)]], it was still directing itself towards the disambiguation page. I assume this has something to do with the how the "link" parameter is used in the "Location map many" template. I hope this sorts out the issue raised. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 02:20, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
::Thank you very much. Usually I am quite able to fix links to disambiguation pages but in this case I could not even find the culprit. {{smiley}} <span style="border:1px solid green; padding:0 2px">[[User:The Banner|<span style="color:green">The&nbsp;Banner</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:The Banner|<i style="color:maroon">talk</i>]]</span> 10:16, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== [[Moral vaccum]] ==

Wikiepdia doesn't have an article on [[Moral vacuum]]? 
This is a wonderful five minute [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIYfiRyPi3o scene] from [[Yes Minister]]:—
<small>{{talkquote|
Bernard: Well, I was just wondering if the minister was right, actually.

Sir Humphrey: Very unlikely. What about?

Bernard : About ends and means. I mean, will I end up as a [[moral vacuum]] too?

Sir Humphrey : Oh, I hope so, Bernard. If you work hard enough.

Bernard Woolley: I actually feel rather downcast. If it's our job to carry out government policies, shouldn't we believe in them?

Sir Humphrey : Huh, what an extraordinary idea.}}</small>
[[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 12:24, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Chip Chap post ==

Gurdip Singh Kler says:
{{talkquote|The Chip Chap river Indian Army post of thirty men held at bay 500 Chinese for a whole day and at the end of fighting only four of them survived, while Chinese had more than 150 causalities.<ref>{{citation |last=Kler |first=Gurdip Singh |title=Unsung Battles of 1962  |publisher=Lancer |date=1995 |isbn=9781897829097 |url=https://www.google.co.in/books/edition/Unsung_Battles_of_1962/nCLwDwAAQBAJ}}</ref>}}
Sandhu and co. give quite a different narrative, which we put on the [[Depsang Plains]] page. Who is right? -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 13:17, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
: [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], I do not have the entire text of Kler's book, only Sandhu's, so I assume the same incident is being talked about including the same companies and battalions. Just based on these two sources, one thing is clear, there were more Chinese than Indians. Sandhu et. al. put the ratio at 10:1 while Kler put it at 16:1. The figures of the death varies largely so nothing can be said.
: So this leaves us with our perceived credibility of each book. For me, Sandhu et al have foremost credibility here. However, this is not to say that Kler is not credible. That book is credible in its own right.
:However on Wikipedia, according to what I have picked up of written and unwritten tendencies, a good practice would be to at least state that there are deviations in figures in a explanatory footnote. Here I don't think the deviation by Kler needs to be placed inline, also because I haven't acquired the entire book (or even that page) as yet. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 11:55, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
:: This is obviously the "red top hill" post that Sandhu and co. write about. Based on their description, I assess that it is at {{coord|35.3346|78.0785}}. It is a strong position. But I find it hard to believe that 30 men could hold off a battalion for a whole day. Sandhu et al. say 2 hours. Please look for corroboration for either view in other sources that you run into. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 12:25, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
::: There are examples in world history of a small number holding off a large number for a hard to believe period of time. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 04:49, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}

{{Clear}}
==India and the Non-Aligned Movement==
{{GOCEtb|article=India and the Non-Aligned Movement|sign=Cheers, '''[[User talk:Baffle gab1978|<span style="color:#191960">Baffle☿''gab''</span>]]''' 22:16, 11 February 2021 (UTC)}}
:Hi DiplomatTesterMan, I've removed some uncited text—including the 1980s section, which was marked uncited in March 2019—per [[WP:VERIFY]]. I also removed lots of POV text and waffle (padding, fluff), and marked "Early developments" as uincited. Other text marked uncited last month is still n the article because I considered it important for context but it should be cited at the earliest opportunity, or it may be removed at any time. Cheers, '''[[User talk:Baffle gab1978|<span style="color:#191960">Baffle☿''gab''</span>]]''' 22:16, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
:: [[User:Baffle gab1978|Baffle gab1978]], thank you the copyedit! [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 08:40, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Shiv Kunal Verma ==

I don't have access to the book. But the [https://www.thehindu.com/books/literary-review/shelley-walia-reviews-1962-the-war-that-wasnt/article8509119.ece review] indicates that it is an opinionated book. Try not to cite it. We have plenty of academic sources. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 14:02, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
: [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], yes. He outright clarifies that when he says he was raised in the same battalion that was massacred in Namka Chu. However some facts like a parliament reference are universal. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 08:59, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
:: The facts, may be. But the attributed commentary in the Reactions section is quite UNDUE. When we are dealing with an international conflict, we need to treat countries as units rather than as cats fighting among themselves. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 10:03, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
::: I was about to object, until I saw the article for WWII, only nations as units indeed. [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 13:41, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

{{Clear}}
== Pageviews article for ''The Signpost'' ==

DTM,

Thanks for your efforts in trying to make statistical sense from the Signpost pageviews data!  I consider this one of the most useful articles of the year for me as editor-in-chief, answering the question "How can we select or solicit articles that our main readership, the community of Wikipedia editors, want to read?" It is also important to many of our readers: "Is ''The Signpost'' fulfilling its mandate of serving this community."

In short, I consider this article as akin to an annual report of ''The Signpost''.

The short answer to your questions at 
[[User:DiplomatTesterMan/SP_outlier_table]] is "I don't know." I'll ping {{u|Igordebraga}} and {{u|HaeB}} who should have some ideas.This relates to questions at 
[[User:DiplomatTesterMan/SP_outlier_table]]] and a future article like 
 
[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2020-03-01/Special_report]].

The long answer to your question on outliers is:
*The distribution of any data related to Wikipedia pageviews is "normally highly non-normal", i.e it's usually highly skewed to the right and non-Gausian.
*The skew to the right - some unusually big numbers or "outliers" - makes some usual statistical tools - like average (mean) - difficult to interpret.
*The cause of the skew might be:
**some rather very good or very bad journalism!
**Internal controversy - which was really good (or bad) for us to have brought up. We touched a nerve.
**posting links on other platforms, which can be
***good - an indication of quality journalism and interest by the outside world, or
***bad - somebody is trying to manipulate our pageviews or trying to make some type of point.
*"Manipulation" might possibly be seen by looking at pageviews more than 2 months out. Are these the main source of readership?

A very short and over-simplified answer: regard anything over 16,000 pageviews on ''The Signpost'' as an outlier. Or (I suppose I have a COI) separate out the 3 possible outliers for this year for a brief examination *but* don't remove them from the overall results.

I wish I had a better answer.

[[User:Smallbones|Smallbones]]<sub>([[User talk:Smallbones|<span style="color: #cc6600;">smalltalk</span>]])</sub> 17:28, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
: Thank you for these thoughts. This is a lot. Last time just your mention of the word "outlier" opened up such an important new section in this report. I was hearing it for the first time but it made loads of sense. Thanks! [[User:DiplomatTesterMan|DTM]] ([[User talk:DiplomatTesterMan#top|talk]]) 04:13, 26 January 2021 (UTC)