View source for User talk:Lobsterthermidor/Archive 2

{{Talk archive}}
== [[Warbelton v. Gorges]] ==

Interesting read :) I like coming across articles like this one when I'm doing new page patrol. I wonder if you could explain, why was the charter written in French rather than English? Sorry if it's a stupid question, my history knowledge is pretty bad. --[[User:Physics is all gnomes|Physics is all gnomes]] ([[User talk:Physics is all gnomes|talk]]) 13:49, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks very much for your approval. It was in French because the English court spoke French ever since the Norman Conquest, and this trend became more pronounced after King Edward III, reigning at the time this charter was made,  claimed the French throne in right of his mother. Perhaps I should add this info to the article. Now, assuming from your username you are a physicist,  perhaps you can explain to me what nuclear fission is all about -  just joking! ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 14:02, 7 April 2011 (UTC))
::Lol, I can try if you like. Thanks for the explanation, I learnt something new today {{=)|smile}} --[[User:Physics is all gnomes|Physics is all gnomes]] ([[User talk:Physics is all gnomes|talk]]) 14:11, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

== O tempora! ==

Can you quote me a use of ''tempus'' '''in context'''?

I think I've only ever seen it abbreviated, ''temp. Hen. II'' (for, I presume, ''tempore Henrici secundi'') meaning '''in''' the time of H2.  Obviously there are contexts where ''tempus'' is correct even in Latin, but it's not trivial to imagine a context where an historian would use ''temp. Hen. II'' as the subject or object of a verb. —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 21:03, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
:I believe I've seen it innumerable times, but can't quote one of them. Can't fault your logic. Will keep my eyes peeled for next one I see & report back. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 19:45, 13 May 2011 (UTC))
:: I can't ask more than that. —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 02:42, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

==I have had fun==
With [[Pimp tenure]]. I even found an online copy  of Thomas Blount's book. No online copies of the rolls yet, as far as I know! ''[[User:Rich Farmbrough|Rich]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Rich Farmbrough|Farmbrough]]'', <small>18:31, 18 May 2011 (UTC).</small><br />
:Great additions, feel free to expand from your sources, it would definitely provide extra interest. I have provided a translation of your Latin quote, which usefully states the tenure to be a form of serjeany (the text is surely corrupted, perhaps by the scanning process), as I had suspected. I keep telling people history's fun! ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 13:26, 20 May 2011 (UTC))

==Failed swimmer notability==
OK, I doubted that a consensus had bee reached on that, but honestly I wonder about the importance of a title like "Miss Charlene Wittstock". It sounds a bit ridiculous... Not to speak of even listing her ancestors who were total nullities, just because other noble figures had them. But they were NOT noble, so where's their relevance? I've decided to add that comic template also to my personal page: hope that at least satire can work. Ciao and good work. --[[User:Attilios|&#39;&#39;&#39;Attilios&#39;&#39;&#39;]] ([[User talk:Attilios|talk]]) 11:52, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
:I like your collection of comic name plates - I hadn't realised you were a mammal. But seriously, the article on Charlene Wittstock should contain these standard records of fact, appropriate to the page of any royal personage. As royalty concerns heredity, ancestry and such matters are important, unlike in the case of a celebrity. If they can dig out Irish ancestors for Obama, who knows what ancient princes will be found in Charlene's ancestry. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 12:10, 3 July 2011 (UTC))

== [[:File:Soaptrust.jpg]] ==

Hi, I have corrected the license on this image: PD-old is plainly wrong because its author, Haselden has not been dead for more than 70 years (or even the 100 years claimed under that template).  This image is still copyrighted in the UK, though PD in the US by virtue of pre-1923 publication.  However, we still need to know where this image was obtained (it is obviously not scanned from the original newspaper, judging from the sharpness and different font of the partial text at the bottom).  From which source was this image scanned from?  [[User:Jappalang|Jappalang]] ([[User talk:Jappalang|talk]]) 04:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
:Well spotted, good addition and sorry for my oversight. Source now added (Wilson, C. History of Unilever, vol.1, p.81).([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 19:18, 16 August 2011 (UTC))

== John Russell, 1st Earl of Bedford ==

Source for dates was ''Oxford Dictionary of National Biography'' (ODNB).'''[[User:PacificBoy|<span style="color:SkyBlue;">Pac</span><span style="color:LightPink;">if</span><span style="color:Orchid;">ic</span><span style="color:MediumOrchid;">Bo</span><span style="color:Indigo;">y</span>]]''' 10:41, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks. Better to have provided this as a reference in the article.([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 12:41, 11 August 2011 (UTC))

== In addition to King John... ==

If you have five minutes and fancy taking a look, I'd welcome your thoughts on [[Stephen of England|King Stephen]]. The article's in a pretty good state now, but it would benefit from someone with a good background in the sources looking over it as well. I'd like to try and take it to FAR at some point in the near future and you've a good eye for this sort of thing! [[User:Hchc2009|Hchc2009]] ([[User talk:Hchc2009|talk]]) 16:49, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
:Hey, thanks! 5 minutes? The John article took me several hours to read carefully - and deserves no less! My focus of interest is really late John early H III at the moment. The John article is very informative and useful. The only area I would like to "interfere with" is the matter of punctuation and niggling little matters, which are perhaps just differences in American & English writing styles. For example, I find Americans use lots of ;'s and ,'s which I find detract from the text. There are lots of little clarifications needed, odd words to be replaced (i.e. "Wortham (sic) was responsible for ''fusing'' John's galleys"). What's needed is  a classic & detailed edit job on the superficial areas, the text is there already. That's the trouble with FAR articles, they tend to fossilise for fear of losing their status due to change. I might have a go sometime and see if I get slapped down! ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 18:14, 26 August 2011 (UTC))
::Well, perhaps a little bit more than 5 minutes! :) Once I've finished with Stephen I'd like to try and sort out the Henry II article which badly needs some work, but I've been distracted by some work on the Bastille in user-space... [[User:Hchc2009|Hchc2009]] ([[User talk:Hchc2009|talk]]) 18:33, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

==Dimidiation==
Well, I didn't notice it until after looking at it for almost five minutes... [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 09:47, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
:To be honest with you I was going to suggest in my caption a new term for such a phenomenon: "trimidiation"! I decided against it as I thought it just didn't sound right, with ''media'' meaning "middle" and ''di'' presumably coming from ''duos''. Just as well! ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 11:34, 16 September 2011 (UTC))
::The ''di'' is likely the same morpheme as in ''divide'', which (according to the [[American Heritage Dictionary]]) is related to ''dis–'' rather than ''duo''. —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]])
:::Thanks for the as ever useful correction - by the way belated thanks for putting me right earlier on ''temp.'' being ''tempore'', I keep my eyes peeled when looking at the writings of antiquarians who do indeed use the ablative - or should that be locative, generally same ending I think.([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 21:25, 24 December 2011 (UTC))
:::: I gather that in Latin the ablative mostly absorbed the functions of the PIE locative and instrumental. —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 07:57, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

== Your {{tl|merge to}} at [[:Category:Methods of writing]] ==

I have converted [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Methods_of_writing&diff=prev&oldid=423348678 your] {{tl|merge to}} at [[:Category:Methods of writing]] to the more correct {{tl|cfm}}. Please support your suggestion at the discussion [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 September 24#Category:Methods of writing|here]]. [[User:Markhurd|Mark Hurd]] ([[User talk:Markhurd|talk]]) 03:02, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

== File:FirstArmsOfGorges.jpg listed for deletion ==
A file that you uploaded or altered, [[:File:FirstArmsOfGorges.jpg]], has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Files for deletion]]. Please see the [[Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2011 October 8#File:FirstArmsOfGorges.jpg|'''discussion''']] to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. <!-- Template:Fdw --> [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 15:50, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

== File:LeQuesneKettle.jpg listed for deletion ==
A file that you uploaded or altered, [[:File:LeQuesneKettle.jpg]], has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Files for deletion]]. Please see the [[Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2011 October 8#File:LeQuesneKettle.jpg|'''discussion''']] to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. <!-- Template:Fdw --> [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 16:44, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

==[[:File:Heraldic gurges (whirlpool) Gorges.svg]]==
Generally files in SVG vector format are preferred to PNGs or JPEGs as coat-of-arms illustrations (as opposed to photographs of old historic depictions).  However, the distinction between "computerized" and "artistic hand-drawn" is by no means as simple as you assume -- for example, [[:Commons:User:Sodacan]] creates a lot of SVG files from scratch which have significant artistic qualities.  As for the specific case of the Gorges arms, the JPEG was adequate, but it was obviously a photograph of something drawn on paper with magic markers (or similar), so I had no hesitation in replacing it with a smooth geometric vector SVG, which could also serve as a source for a vector heraldic whirlpool for future authors of heraldic SVG files.  I'm not actually much of an artist (definitely not if it comes to freehand drawing from scratch), but I can contribute things like that.  (However, I may have made the shield a little too narrow...) -- [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 01:22, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

:There's definitely a place for "artistic personality" in many heraldic representations, but I'm not sure that a modern illustration of the blazon ''argent, a gurges azure'' (or perhaps just ''gurges'') really qualifies.  For charges which can be defined in term of simple geometry, such as ''[[:File:Azure-Cross-Or-Heraldry.svg|azure, a cross Or]]'' etc., most of the time you just want illustrations with the correct simple geometry, and which don't call attention to themselves with unnecessary fancy elaborations. [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 00:53, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
::That seems like a fair comment. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 16:08, 14 October 2011 (UTC))

== [[William de Botreaux, 2nd Baron Botreaux]] ==

I'm posting this message on your talk page because I noticed that you've recently created the new article [[William de Botreaux, 2nd Baron Botreaux]]--However, I noticed there are some holes that may need filling: the references in the article do not follow Wikipedia guidelines. There is a tutorial on formatting citations at [[Wikipedia:Referencing]].It would be great if you could also [[Help:Files|upload a picture]] for the related article [[Baron Botreaux]].
[[User:Jipinghe|Jipinghe]] ([[User talk:Jipinghe|talk]]) 19:52, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

== Talkback ==

{{Talkback|Nick Number|Links to Wiktionary|ts = 22:53, 5 December 2011 (UTC)}}

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::added links pointing to [[Richard Duke of York]] and [[Brushford]]

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::added a link pointing to [[Clare]]

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::added a link pointing to [[Moiety]](corrected)

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::added a link pointing to [[Hollar]]

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::added a link pointing to [[The Strand]]

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==File permission problem with File:TreasuryGreatMosqueDamascus.jpg==
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::added links pointing to [[Cardinal]], [[Addington]] and [[Sapperton]]

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::added links pointing to [[Overlord]] and [[Conveyance]]

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::added links pointing to [[Eton]] and [[Egremont]]

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::added a link pointing to [[Ward]]

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== File:GorgesArmsMediaevalShield.jpg listed for deletion ==
A file that you uploaded or altered, [[:File:GorgesArmsMediaevalShield.jpg]], has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Files for deletion]]. Please see the [[Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2012 January 30#File:GorgesArmsMediaevalShield.jpg|'''discussion''']] to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. <!-- Template:Fdw --> :'''Jay8g''' <sup>[[User talk:Jay8g|Hi!]]- [[User:Jay8g|I am...]] -[[Special:Contributions/Jay8g|What I do...]] </sup> <sub> [[Portal:Washington_Roads|WASH]]- [[WP:BRIDGE|BRIDGE]]- [[Portal:Washington|WPWA]] - [[WP:MFIC|MFIC]]- [[WP:WPIM|WPIM]] </sub> 01:07, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

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:::Now fixed ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 13:20, 4 February 2012 (UTC))
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::added links pointing to [[Moiety]], [[Overlord]] and [[See]]

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::added a link pointing to [[Launceston]]

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== Requested move at [[Talk:Arabesque (Islamic art)#Requested move]] ==

You may be interested in [[Talk:Arabesque (Islamic art)#Requested move]]. [[User:TimBentley|TimBentley]] [[User talk:TimBentley|(talk)]] 17:00, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

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== Sic ==

* Thank you for your contributions to the article [[Sic]]. I have started a [[Talk:Sic#Bold_reorganization_by_Lobsterthermidor|discussion]] regarding the recent bold edits and would like to understand the purpose.  —[[User:Codehydro|<span style="color: #aaaaaa; font-family: Unicode; font-size:12pt;">'''Code'''</span>]][[User talk:Codehydro|<span style="color: #5577aa;">'''Hydro'''</span>]] 14:06, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

== The martlet in the cadency image ==

I made the image. I don't recall where the current version of that brisure came from. If you can find a better martlet anywhere on Wikimedia Commons and let me know, I'll be glad to replace it. [[User:Marnanel|Marnanel]] ([[User talk:Marnanel|talk]]) 12:27, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
*Your image was of a French ''Merlette'', a type of duck, I have thrashed out the difference between this and the English martlet in the article [[martlet]]. A good image of the martlet is available at [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MartletSable.JPG]. I'll be glad to see the last of that French intruder into English heraldry on WP! Thanks ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 19:34, 1 May 2012 (UTC))

== Twelve Knights of Glamorgan ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | {{#ifeq:alt|alt|[[File:Original Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Original Barnstar.png|100px]]}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | It's wonderful when you just happen upon a really interesting article. Thanks for making my day and all the other hard work you put into Wikipedia. [[User:FruitMonkey|FruitMonkey]] ([[User talk:FruitMonkey|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
|}
That was one of my very first contributions! - and this is my first Barnstar, a very great honour, thanks. I'm really glad you enjoyed the article, there's a lot more to say on that topic, I hope I'll get round to it one day, but with WP one is constantly moving on...([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 19:09, 13 May 2012 (UTC))

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Original Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | One of the finest references that I have found. Thank you. [[User:Stuartwross|Stuartwross]] ([[User talk:Stuartwross|talk]]) 18:12, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
|}
:Much appreciated! ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 00:15, 25 June 2012 (UTC))

==Disambiguation link notification for June 28==

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== Tristram Risdon ==

Hello and thank you for your additions and corrections to [[Tristram Risdon]]. You do seem to have gone rather overboard on the lists and short choppy sections in that article, though. Both of these are looked on unfavourably here - see [[WP:BODY]]: "Very short or very long sections and subsections in an article look cluttered and inhibit the flow of the prose" and "Bullet points should be minimized in the body of the article, if they are used at all; however, a bulleted list may be useful to break up what would otherwise be a large, grey mass of text" (which in our case we have not got).

Similarly, [[:Template:Quote box|quoteboxes]] are often used to "illustrate" an article where few relevant images are available. I also find them useful to separate a quote from the flow of the content when the quote isn't directly relevant to the text, but it does provide a useful or interesting example - as here where it gives a flavour of the style of Risdon's writing (not as dull as some have claimed, I think!)

Unless you can provide some persuasive arguments for retaining the new layout, I propose to substantially return it to how it was before. I'm happy to discuss, of course. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 16:27, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
:I like to use headers to encourage expansion of sections such as "Origins", for an input of geneaology, "Marriage & progeny" for expansion re. descent, etc. I like to find stuff quickly. Quoteboxes should surely state source on face, else seem rather too jouralistic, I find it irksome to see a block of text with no context at all. Surely better "illustrations" can be dreamt up than this. I'm not a WP lawyer and will not attempt to defeat your citations from the rule book. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 16:55, 7 July 2012 (UTC))

::Hmm. Don't forget that the purpose of WP is to serve its readers, who vastly outnumber us editors, and it's to aid them that we have style guidelines to follow. Rather than leaving an article in such a disjointed state for an indeterminate length of time, it's surely more appropriate to wait until significant content is to hand before creating new sections. And if you don't have the content, the talk page is the place to request it. Is Risdon's genealogy/descent meaningful and relevant anyway? We don't add such details to every biography.
::Regarding the quoteboxes - all I can say is that they're used in many FAs ([[Nicky Barr|1]], [[North Carolina class battleship|2]] - absolutely at random) and GAs, so they're evidently looked on favourably. And far from having no context, this one illustrates two separate parts of the text - Risdon's prose and the Tiverton fire.
::Are you at all persuaded? &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 19:00, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
:::I much appreciate your consultation. I don't want to get too bogged down in presentational matters. I believe in ever increasing expansion of WP articles, that they are always in a state of flux and never finished. That's not to say they should look a mess, but I don't think short paras do that, I find they assist reading, certainly the ability to consult quickly on a specific point without having to wade through a block of text. As a user I find myself consulting on specific points more often than reading whole articles, and like to navigate straight there, that's what the content box is for. There's at least three times as much to say about Risdon as is here. Yes genealogy is relevant, indeed I intend to add a picture of his coat of arms at some point and an image of the brass at St Giles, a rare piece of 17th.c. English art, which will link into other articles on [[monumental brass]]es. We haven't even given the maiden name of his mother, a basic requirement. More work is needed, but that is the nature of WP. Don't attempt to "wrap it up" or fossilise it. When Jimbo Whales says we need to economise on server space, then articles need to be restricted, but at present WP's objective is to include the entire sum of human knowledge. My annual donation to WP certainly covers more than the extra server space required for all my text and image contributions. That doesn't mean packing articles with verbiage, but does include adding facts where available. Context of the box: I missed it when I read the article, and needed to go to the file page to inform myself what it was. It's as irritating as showing an image with no caption. As for your first comment, I consider myself equally  a user and editor. I don't like quote boxes which are more at home in a glossy magazine than a serious encyclopaedic article. As for section length, I think the image of the family home looks good opposite the para on Origins, surely that qualifies as of sufficient length? I'm not persuaded, but if it irks you that much go ahead and change it to the way you like it, but don't loose any content.([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 19:49, 7 July 2012 (UTC))
{{outdent}}
Thanks for your detailed response - similarly appreciated here. You talk about your opinions: you think short paras are helpful and don't look a mess, that quote boxes don't belong in a serious article, etc. The problem, of course, is that there's a huge range of such personal opinions among our editors, and that's why we have policies and guidelines - WP couldn't work without them. In this case most other editors haven't agreed with your view, so neither does the [[WP:MOS|Manual of Style]], or the FA process. On that basis - consensus about article style - I will restore the longer paras and the quotebox. Thanks for that.

Incidentally, you changed the caption of the photo from "Winscott Barton, an 18th-century farmhouse on the site of Winscott in which Risdon lived" to "Winscott Barton, the farmhouse (with later 18th.c. additions) in which Risdon lived". In writing that caption, I followed the photo's file description which helpfully cited Hoskins' ''Devon'' (which says "The present farmhouse is a late 18th-cent. house.") I remember wondering whether I should add the photo at all, since it evidently isn't the same building that Risdon lived in. But do you have evidence that refutes Hoskins? &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 23:46, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

===Summary style===
This is still in response to your last post. At least we agree that WP is never finished! I don't think I said anything about removing or restricting the addition of any information that's relevant to the topic. But that doesn't mean that an article can continue to expand indefinitely. We have to bear in mind [[WP:SS|summary style]] and what's expected of an encyclopedia article. Beyond a certain level, we don't expect a single article to provide all the information about a topic. When one aspect of a topic has been researched and expanded so much that it unbalances the entire article, it should be split off into a child article. [[WP:DETAIL]] gives a decent explanation of this principle.

This isn't really about the current Risdon article, but some of the others that you've edited - I came across [[Orleigh Court]] which demonstrates the problem nicely, I think: it's far from what I'd expect to see if I, as a general reader, came to WP for information. I reckon that all that content about the "descent of the manor" should be in a child article, with a brief summary in the main article. Much of it is only very peripherally relevant to Orleigh Court. What do you think?

By the way, you said, "...at present WP's objective is to include the entire sum of human knowledge". Sorry, no it isn't - see [[WP:NOT]]. (Though it does depend on one's personal definition of ''knowledge'', I suppose!) &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 23:46, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

:At [[Talk:Orleigh Court]], I've proposed [[WP:SPLIT|splitting]] your additions into a child article. Your comments would be welcome there. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 12:42, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
::Descent of the manor is the format adopted by the Victoria County History series. Often in the cases of manor houses it is more practical to combine the history of the manor with the architecture of the existing house. There often is not enough to say  about the building itself to form an article of any length, as is possibly the case with Orleigh. Often architectural features can only be properly explained by reference to previous occupants who built them, and the reader therefore needs to be familiar with the descent.  To split into two separate articles seems somewhat disjointed.   Subjects which become too dis-aggregated can loose the ability to give an overview. On your general point I do not agree that history of a manor is "very peripherally relevant" to an article about the house. I do however think you have spotted something of value re Winscott: Pevsner states under the heading "St Giles in the Wood": "Winscott House, a cheerless Gothic mansion of 1858-64 by W. White, has been demolished". My map shows a "Winscott Barton" presently located 1 mile E of St Giles. Clearly some clarification is required here. I would agree with you that pending this the image should perhaps be removed. There is incidentally another Winscott between  Orleigh and Bideford. The source of the image needs verification. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 13:45, 9 July 2012 (UTC))

:::Dealing with your second point first, I agree that the Winscott photo should go, for now at least - I'll remove it and add a note to the talk page in case anyone else is interested or can contribute. I saw the mention in Pevsner, but assumed that was somewhere else because the details don't fit. An engraving of the old house would be better, of course (there's nothing in Somers Cocks that I can see), but best of all would be an illustration of Risdon himself, like the one you found of [[William Pole (antiquary)|Wm. Pole]].
:::Regarding Orleigh, could you copy your comment to [[Talk:Orleigh Court]], please, where I'll reply. Thanks, &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 14:57, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
::::Keep looking, there'll be a portrait out there somewhere, imaginary or otherwise. Failing which I find that an image of the subject's armorials make a good substitute. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 15:06, 9 July 2012 (UTC))

== [[Ledger line]] ==

You added a new meaning at the end of January. Unfortunately, you did not add a reference. The new material really ought to be in its own article (per a split tag) and yet it can't because of the lack of reference. Therefore, I will move the new material to the talk page so that it can easily be re-instated should you find a reference in the future. [[User:Op47|Op47]] ([[User talk:Op47|talk]]) 18:41, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
:Noted, will endeavor to do so. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 20:36, 21 July 2012 (UTC))

== Barony of Moor ==

Nice find! I've deleted the hoax article and indef-blocked the perpetrator. I've also redacted your addition of part of the content to [[Barmby Moor]] because (possible copyvio considerations apart) we can't be certain without careful reading that it hadn't been tampered with. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 16:38, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
::Thanks for your action. To defend him somewhat the contributor is not a "malicious" hoaxer, just someone who bought a possibly phoney "lordship of a manor" certificate (a common scam) and now wants not only to give it historical validity, but also to promote it to a "feudal barony". He therefore willfully created a false article. Not really what WP is there for! The text he lifted from British History online on the history of the village/manor is probably accurately copied, but I take your point re copyright issues. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 14:16, 30 July 2012 (UTC))
:::After reading his last comments I was going to give him the benefit of the doubt if he made some commitments, but I was pipped by JamesBWatson who's refused his appeal. Perhaps that's just as well... &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 15:42, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
::::I think JamesBWatson has made a well-judged decision. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 13:26, 31 July 2012 (UTC))

== Cite spam?? ==

What's with this cite spam deletion you did on House of Braose? Surely the full citation is the preferred one. 
[[User:Dougatwiki|Doug]] ([[User talk:Dougatwiki|at Wiki]]) 17:30, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
:Sorry, I do not like  what I have seen others call "cite source spam". I understand the cite source template to be for new users who are not familiar with how to cite sources, and there it has its value. I don't see the point of using it once one has become used to citing, it just clutters up the edit text. Does it add anything extra? Does not  just "author, title, date, location, page no" give exactly the same visible result without all the cluttering/spam code in between? I think I also deleted the ISBN, useless  unless buying new books, librarians don't need it when ordering old books, should a reader wish to consult the source quoted. Thanks for helping me out with this article.([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 17:58, 17 August 2012 (UTC))
::OK. The cite templates are usually used to ensure a consistent approach. But since the other references given don't use it I don't think it matters much here. On the articles I have taken to GA status all the citations use templates. [[User:Dougatwiki|Doug]] ([[User talk:Dougatwiki|at Wiki]]) 18:17, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
:::Perhaps just a matter of personal preference. I can't see the point of them. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 20:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC))

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{{Talkback|Talk:Barnstaple|Feudal barony|ts=&nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 12:02, 19 August 2012 (UTC)}}

==Licences to crenellate==
I noticed you've started an article on licences to crenellate, which to be fair is filling a gap in the encyclopedia. However, it is only fair to tell you that I'm effectively going to ditch what you've written as it is riddled with problems. First and foremost are issues relating to referencing. The author of the article you have been using was written by Philip Davis and published in ''The Castle Studies Group Journal''. There is a significant difference between that and the group carrying out the research themselves. Then there is the issue of attribution. Despite the fact you added the information and clearly had the article to hand, it is not properly referenced. There are statements and paragraphs which do not have a footnote to explain the information has come from Davis' article, making it useless to a reader. Ensuring every statement is impeccably sourced should be standard practice for Wikipedia, and while there are a host of articles which fall hopelessly short of this standard there's no excuse for newly added information. On top of that, your reading of the article is somewhat ham-fisted. I made some corrections to the battlement article which you did not bother to copy across, thereby reintroducing errors. For instance you wrote "{{xt|Pardons could be obtained for unlicenced constructions, termed "adulterine"}} whereas what Davis said was "{{xt|In particular it is important to understand that the so called 'adulterine' castles of the Anarchy of Stephen were not 'unlicenced', as sometimes stated"}}. [[User:Nev1|Nev1]] ([[User talk:Nev1|talk]]) 17:04, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
:OK, its a new article, few WP articles are created perfect. I do my best. I was aware that I had omitted to carry accross some of your edits, nothing of truly vital import, but that is in the pipeline. If you can help improve it that will be very welcome. The problems you seem to have identified are:
*Attribution should be to "Philip Davis and published in ''The Castle Studies Group Journal''", I thought I had picked up that edit of yours into the new article. If not can it not simply be inserted? What's the problem? 
*"There are statements and paragraphs which do not have a footnote to explain the information has come from Davis' article, making it useless to a reader".
Why not simply state at top of the list: "All sourced from Davis unless stated to the contrary"? It is a great exaggeration to say the info's useless because of this minor matter of clarifying the source. There's certainly a way round that. If you are also refering to the main bodies of text, then I can improve the referencing  as you suggest.

I can't see how this justifies your proposal to "ditch" the article. I should add that on the matter of pardons, you deleted the whole sentence instead of retaining what was OK, i.e. that a mechanism for obtaining pardons existed, an important point to make. I will make the above 3 amendments and you can let me know what you think. I'm glad you agree with me that this is "filling a much gap" (sic). It's a shame you previously deleted the whole thing with no reason given. You could have demerged the text yourself, or asked me to do it. Perhaps now you can work on it a bit more constructively. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 17:43, 19 August 2012 (UTC))

:The real shame is that you didn't read that battlement talk page to see the reasons for deleting the list there, and why it is not appropriate at the new article. In short I am in the process of tearing out what you wrote because it was not good enough and simply easier to start afresh. I cannot emphasise enough the importance of adequate sourcing in Wikipedia articles, and making sure they are properly represented. [[User:Nev1|Nev1]] ([[User talk:Nev1|talk]]) 18:01, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Lobsterthermidor, when adding references, do you think you could include the pages where you found the information? Thanks, [[User:Nev1|Nev1]] ([[User talk:Nev1|talk]]) 18:49, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
:I will endeavour as hard as I am able to meet your standards of perfection, but am only a mere mortal. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 18:54, 19 August 2012 (UTC))

::Ta, and it would be just great if you could use footnote references at [[Barons' Letter, 1301]] so readers can see what information has come from where. [[User:Nev1|Nev1]] ([[User talk:Nev1|talk]]) 18:56, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
::So far as I remember its all from Willoughby de Broke, but again I will try to oblige you there as well. Now you're not going to "ditch" that article too are you?([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 19:01, 19 August 2012 (UTC))

:::My main concern right now is making sure Wikipedia has a decent article on licences to crenellate. [[User:Nev1|Nev1]] ([[User talk:Nev1|talk]]) 19:07, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
::::Perhaps you might condescend so much as to offer me some little credit for my own pathetic offering? ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 19:10, 19 August 2012 (UTC))

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If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit '''[[Talk:List of licences to crenellate|the page's talk page directly]]''' to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]].  <!-- Template:Db-copyvio-notice --> <!-- Template:Db-csd-notice-custom --> [[User:Stuartyeates|Stuartyeates]] ([[User talk:Stuartyeates|talk]]) 08:17, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

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::added links pointing to [[George Romney]] and [[Colyton]]

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::added a link pointing to [[MP]]

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::added a link pointing to [[Colyton]]

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==Disambiguation link notification for September 24==

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== Speedy deletion nomination of Bradfield, Uffculme ==

Hello Lobsterthermidor,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged [[Bradfield, Uffculme]] for deletion, because it seems to be inappropriate for a variety of reasons. 

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can <span class="plainlinks">'''[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title={{urlencode:Talk:Bradfield, Uffculme}}&action=edit&section=new&preload=Template:Hangon_preload&preloadtitle=This+page+should+not+be+speedy+deleted+because...+ contest this deletion]'''</span>, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on [[User_talk:Horrifico|my talk page]] if you have questions. Thanks, Welcome to HorrorLand, where nightmares come to life! 14:13, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
:Ignore, request is poss. vandalism. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 23:12, 30 September 2012 (UTC))

==DYK for Peter Rouw==
{{tmbox
|style = notice
|small = 
|image = {{#switch: {{Currentdaymonth}} | 31 October = [[Image:Emblem-very-very-evil.svg|15x25px|Updated DYK query]] | [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]}}
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#30 September 2012|30 September 2012]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Peter Rouw]]''''', which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ''... that at the [[Royal Academy of Arts#Royal_Academy_Schools|Royal Academy School]], '''[[Peter Rouw]]''' trained [[Samuel Joseph (sculptor)|Samuel Joseph]], who is known for creating a statue of [[William Wilberforce]]?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/Peter Rouw|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Peter Rouw]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Peter Rouw|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/Peter Rouw]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [http://stats.grok.se/en/201209/Peter_Rouw quick check])</small> and it will be added to [[WP:DYKSTATS|DYKSTATS]] if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
}}  [[User:Graeme Bartlett|Graeme Bartlett]] ([[User talk:Graeme Bartlett|talk]]) 16:03, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

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==improvements to an entry==

Lobsterthermidor could you kindly help expand the content of this article, [[Palmes family]]? Cheers ([[User:Yahoo12445678|Yahoo12445678]] ([[User talk:Yahoo12445678|talk]]) 21:22, 7 October 2012 (UTC)).
:Never heard of them. It seems to be something that interests you, so you should make it your own project. That's how WP works. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 21:38, 7 October 2012 (UTC))

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::added a link pointing to [[Moiety]]

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::added a link pointing to [[Strand]]

:[[Henry de Percy, 1st Baron Percy]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Henry_de_Percy%2C_1st_Baron_Percy|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Henry_de_Percy%2C_1st_Baron_Percy|fix with Dab solver]])
::added a link pointing to [[Topcliffe]]

:[[House of Percy]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/House_of_Percy|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/House_of_Percy|fix with Dab solver]])
::added a link pointing to [[Topcliffe]]

:[[Joscelin of Louvain]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Joscelin_of_Louvain|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Joscelin_of_Louvain|fix with Dab solver]])
::added a link pointing to [[Topcliffe]]

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==Arlington==

Regarding your expansion: You might be interested in [[:File:Arlingtonground.jpg|this]] if you look at the bottom of the page there are a couple of other versions. I never could decide which was the most illustrative. I drew it when I was planning to re-write the page to FA standard, but never got aownd to writing it. If you want to use let me knowm and I will key it up with the room names etc. [[User:Giano|Giano]] ([[User talk:Giano|talk]]) 08:27, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
:Would be a very useful addition, I think the current version is best. Do go ahead with room names etc., & add the image to the article if you wish, seems a shame to waste your work. More text is clearly needed on architecture & description etc. Also needed is a really good lead photo, good angle with good light, like [http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/Details/Default.aspx?id=96979 this]. May have to wait till next spring/summer. Am working further on the Chichester family at present, so more contribs to follow from me.([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 16:32, 4 December 2012 (UTC))

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== Sydenham House, Devon ==

Hi there Lobsterthermidor. Thanks for your nice note.  Cheers, --[[User:Rosiestep|Rosiestep]] ([[User talk:Rosiestep|talk]]) 16:36, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

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== [[Wikipedia:Help_desk#Special character screen pop-up|Special character screen pop-up]] ==

{{tb|Wikipedia:Help_desk#Special character screen pop-up|ts=18:31, 29 December 2012 (UTC)}}<small>~E : [[Special:Contributions/74.60.29.141|74.60.29.141]] ([[User talk:74.60.29.141|talk]]) 18:31, 29 December 2012 (UTC)</small>

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::added a link pointing to [[MP]]

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::added a link pointing to [[MP]]

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== Thanks ==

Hi Lobsterthermidor, I was on my new-pages-patrol rounds and came upon Raleigh, Pilton; just a quick thankyou for presenting a well-rounded new article, makes a nice change from the vast quantity of deletion-ready stuff that usually fills the new pages report. [[User:Baldy Bill|<span style="color:red"><b>Baldy Bill</b></span>]] <small>([[User talk:Baldy Bill|<span style="color:red">sharpen the razor</span>]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/Baldy_Bill|<span style="color:red">see my reflection</span>]])</small> 22:46, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
:Thanks!([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 12:24, 9 February 2013 (UTC))

== William Willoughby, 5th Baron Willoughby de Eresby ==

Hi Lobsterthermidor,

I left a message for you at the Talk page for the above-referenced article. Best, [[User:NinaGreen|NinaGreen]] ([[User talk:NinaGreen|talk]]) 22:11, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
== May 2013 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=554286483 your edit] to [[Sir John Northcote, 1st Baronet]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page]. Thanks, <!-- (1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 13:26, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

{{talkback|A930913|BracketBot - Lobsterthermidor|ts=15:49, 9 May 2013 (UTC)}}
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=555568834 your edit] to [[Berry Pomeroy]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 2 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry, just [{{fullurl:Berry Pomeroy|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
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*<nowiki>(whose 1st wife had been his sister Johanna de Pomeroy) and  John Bampfield of [[Poltimore]]</nowiki>{{red|'''&#93;&#93;'''}}<nowiki>,<ref>Vivian, p.38, pedigree of Bampfield</ref> The marriage was without progeny. His heir was his</nowiki>
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== [[:Forde, Wolborough]] ==

Hello, {{BASEPAGENAME}}, and thank you for your contributions!

An article you worked on [[:Forde, Wolborough]], appears to be directly copied from http://www.ghostcallers-uk.com/fordehouse.html.  Please take a minute to make sure that the text is freely licensed and properly attributed as a reference, otherwise the article may be deleted. 

It's entirely possible that this bot made a mistake, so please feel free to remove this notice and the tag it placed on [[:Forde, Wolborough]] if necessary.<!--Template:Csb-notice-pageincludes-experienced-test--> [[User:MadmanBot|MadmanBot]] ([[User talk:MadmanBot|talk]]) 22:39, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
:Not my offence, I merely pasted existing WP text from within article [[Newton Abbot]] to form new article. On further investigation, your supposition appears erroneous. See talk page. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 10:10, 14 May 2013 (UTC))

==[[Cornish heraldry]]==
[[Image:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hi, and thank you for [[Special:Contributions/Lobsterthermidor|your contributions]] to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give [[:Cornish heraldry]] a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into another page with a different name. This is known as a "[[cut and paste]] move", and it is undesirable because it splits the [[Help:Page history|page history]], which is legally required for attribution.  Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be ''moved'' to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the [[Help:Moving a page|"Move" tab]] at the top of the page. This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect]] from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested moves]] to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at [[Wikipedia:Cut and paste move repair holding pen]]. Thank you. <!-- Template:uw-c&pmove--><!-- Template:Db-csd-notice-custom --> [[User:Gtwfan52|Gtwfan52]] ([[User talk:Gtwfan52|talk]]) 07:16, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
::That very confusing template was generated when I nominated your recent cut and paste move for deletion so it can be moved properly.  As the template states, it is important to preserve the page history for copyright purposes.  Your article creation will be deleted and the sandbox article will be moved to mainspace in its place.

::Thank you for finding it!  Someone put in a ton of work only to abandon it.  Thanks for finding it and rescuing it! [[User:Gtwfan52|Gtwfan52]] ([[User talk:Gtwfan52|talk]]) 07:23, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
:::Thanks for your input, good to know that you agree with my action. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 07:49, 28 May 2013 (UTC))
::::an admin deleted your creation of the above article and I moved the sandbox one over.  That was a great find.  I gave it a C rating, which I think is the highest I have ever rated a newly created article.  Thanks again. [[User:Gtwfan52|Gtwfan52]] ([[User talk:Gtwfan52|talk]]) 08:33, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
:::::Wow! Thanks. All the credit must go to User:Bodrugan, whose article it was. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 16:11, 28 May 2013 (UTC))
::::::Nice work! NB: there're two non-free images in the Motto's section, which are still limited as ":File"s, that probably need to be activated as full images now its out of a sandbox. [[User:Hchc2009|Hchc2009]] ([[User talk:Hchc2009|talk]]) 16:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Thanks, noted, will deal with as part of on-going copy edit. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 16:43, 28 May 2013 (UTC))
== June 2013 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=558197763 your edit] to [[John Rolle, 1st Baron Rolle]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry, just [{{fullurl:John Rolle, 1st Baron Rolle|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
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*<nowiki>[English feudal barony|feudal baron]] of the ancient barony,<ref>Purchased from Sir John Fortescue </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>White's White's Devonshire Directory of 1850</ref> effectively abolished by the [[Tenures Abolition</nowiki>
</div>
{{!}}}Thanks, <!-- (1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 22:38, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=558209104 your edit] to [[John Rolle, 1st Baron Rolle]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry, just [{{fullurl:John Rolle, 1st Baron Rolle|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
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{{!}} style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white; " {{!}} <div style="font-size:112%;">
*<nowiki>[English feudal barony|feudal baron]] of the ancient barony,<ref>Purchased from Sir John Fortescue </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>White's White's Devonshire Directory of 1850</ref> effectively abolished by the [[Tenures Abolition</nowiki>
*<nowiki>of five Devonshire families, Colby, Coplestone, Reynolds, Palmer and Johnson, Exeter, 1884</nowiki>{{red|'''&#91;'''}}<nowiki>[http://archive.org/stream/pedigreesfivede02colbgoog/pedigreesfivede02colbgoog_djvu.txt]</ref></nowiki>
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{{!}}}Thanks, <!-- (0, 1, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 00:21, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=561559648 your edit] to [[Heanton Satchville, Petrockstowe]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry, just [{{fullurl:Heanton Satchville, Petrockstowe|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
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*<nowiki>1792 was Robert George William Trefusis, later 17th Baron Clinton (Debrett's Peerage, 1968, p.265)</nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>son of Robert Cotton Trefusis (d.1778)[http://www.thepeerage.com/p22808.htm#i228079]</ref> who</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 19:11, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

== Descents ==

Great work, but please stop overloading articles on villages – which should approximate to the format specified in [[WP:UKVILLAGES]] – with excessive details of manorial descents. Please create separate articles, as I have done for [[Manor of Berry Pomeroy]], [[Manor of North Molton]] and now [[Manor of King's Nympton]]. Thanks, &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 21:21, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

And [[Manor of Combe Martin]]. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 23:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
:Please see on your talk page my invitation to you to join the discussion "Manorial histories" of today's date on [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements]]. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 10:50, 12 June 2013 (UTC))
::Thanks. I have replied there: not very favourably, as you probably expected. Incidentally - and I do say this with the best intentions - it may help garner more responses if you were to reformat your posting there with a few paragraphs. See [[WP:TLDR]]. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 16:37, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

== [[:commons:File:Portobello3.jpg]] ==

At [[:commons:File:Portobello3.jpg]] you were listed as the uploader and the file description page states that you would be also the author. Now, a complaint via OTRS was issued and it looks like [http://web.archive.org/web/20070710182540/http://www.indrakeswake.co.uk/Artefacts/coffin.htm Michael Turner] would be the author of [http://web.archive.org/liveweb/http://www.indrakeswake.co.uk/Images/Websize/CoffinSite.jpg this file]. Can you clarify the situation please? Thank you. -- [[User:Rillke|Rillke]] ([[User talk:Rillke|talk]]) 18:57, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
:My error, a regrettable oversight on my part. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 11:15, 20 June 2013 (UTC))

== Original research ==

Although you haven't commented this time, I have no doubt you're aware that I've been [[User_talk:Smalljim/Archive_5#Corruption_of_image_file|"following you around"]] again, this time removing examples of [[WP:OR|original research]] from the articles you've edited.(*) I'm sorry it has taken me so long to become fully aware that this is a problem with your contributions and to take action – it's partly because of a reluctance to do the research necessary to show beyond reasonable doubt that a certain passage is indeed OR, a task made more difficult by the abstruse nature of many of the topics.

However, I am now as sure as I can be that the addition of original research has been a regular feature in your editing, and you need to ensure that this doesn't continue. Don't look upon this as an "official warning" or anything like that – I'm sure you acted unknowingly since it's apparent that you're not very interested in reading up on our policies etc. (which is OK – up to a point), and there's no doubt that your intent here is good, and that you have added a great deal of value to the encyclopedia. But you do now need to take more care that your contributions are made in accordance with our policies and guidelines.

I'm going to continue to work back through some of your contributions and remove the parts that seem to violate our policies. I hope you'll follow me and check my edits (if you were to precede me, that would be even more helpful – no-one can know better than you when you added something that wasn't already published!) I will, of course, be happy to discuss any individual changes. Oh, and if you strongly disagree with all of this, there are a number of ways of getting someone else to look at the situation – [[Wikipedia:Third opinion]] describes the most lightweight of these, though it lists the other available alternatives too. Best, &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 15:02, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

(*) See, for example, some of my recent edits to [[Heanton Satchville, Petrockstowe]]; [[Petrockstowe]]; [[Huish, Devon]]; [[Beam, Great Torrington]]; [[Denys family]] and [[Molland]] (apologies if any of that wasn't actually added by you).

:Thanks for your work on the above pages. There's some further stuff for you to sort out at [[Molland#Molland lily]]; [[Talk:Manor of Molland]]; [[Heanton Satchville, Petrockstowe#Descent of the manor]] and [[Margaret Rolle, 15th Baroness Clinton]]. Thanks, &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 10:40, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

== John Giffard (1602-1665) ==

Thanks so much for the article about [[John Giffard (1602-1665)]]. I've made some edits - and have some comments for a few additional things to resolve for the article on the [[Talk:John Giffard (1602-1665)]] page.

Please let me know if there's anything I can do.--[[User:CaroleHenson|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #4997D0;">'''''CaroleHenson'''''</span></span>]] ([[User talk:CaroleHenson#top|<span style="color: #4997D0;">talk</span>]]) 02:13, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

== Interested in some pointers? ==

Hi, 

You've brought a number of great articles to Wikipedia! I've done some editing and research, lately on [[Monkleigh]] and [[Annery, Monkleigh]], but there are really only a couple of issues. There are also some tools that make creating citations so much easier. I am hoping you're going to continue to bring interesting articles to WP! I wondered if you'd be interested in a couple of tips to make things easier and better fit the guidelines. If so, I am watching this page and will see any updates here.--[[User:CaroleHenson|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #4997D0;">'''''CaroleHenson'''''</span></span>]] ([[User talk:CaroleHenson#top|<span style="color: #4997D0;">talk</span>]]) 01:09, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

==Talkback==
{{talkback|Talk:Abbots Bickington|ts=02:51, 25 June 2013 (UTC)}}
I want to check out a couple more articles and found this article where there was a large amount of uncited info added to a pretty clean article. So, I moved it to the talk page to resolve: 1) what is uncited, 2) what is not notable and 3) what belongs in the main articles about a person. If there are some people that you've been adding information about in multiple articles, that's a good indicator that there may need to be articles about that person or people. Here to help, but also wanting to protect work by people that follow the guidelines.   [[User:CaroleHenson|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #4997D0;">'''''CaroleHenson'''''</span></span>]] ([[User talk:CaroleHenson#top|<span style="color: #4997D0;">talk</span>]]) 02:51, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

== Rare survivals ==

Hi! I've noted [[User:CaroleHenson|CaroleHenson]]'s recent cleanup of some of your work, including [[Abbots Bickington]]. It prompted me to read again through your posts at [[WT:UKCITIES#Manorial histories]], where you raised the issue of appropriate content in articles on villages, and in your second long post there I came across this:

<blockquote>On the issue of biog details of seemingly unimportant people: about these people, often lords of manors, literally one thing alone will be known about them other than their date of death. It may be something apparently trivial like date of matriculation at Oxford, but that's all that has survived in the records from 400 years ago. That makes it valuable. Hence its inclusion. It hasn't been selected as pertinent, but simply because it's a rare survival of something at least.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_UK_geography/How_to_write_about_settlements&diff=559649169&oldid=559628730]</blockquote>

This strongly suggests that you are looking at Wikipedia as a place to store these rare survivals of ancient information. Whilst this is a worthy objective, it isn't part of Wikpedia's remit, so you may, as I recall CaroleHenson suggested to you recently, be better off setting up your own website for this purpose where you can work without our restrictions. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 10:06, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
:I'm very happy to work with WP restrictions, I think we're feeling our way as to just what they are in this area, following the recent discussion re Manorial Histories. I don't recall Carole having made that point to me. I'm very happy with your latest edits to [[Heanton Satchville, Petrockstowe]] - not quite so happy with Carole's rewrite of [[Abbots Bickington]], but I'll make my points on that one there. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 19:19, 25 June 2013 (UTC))

::Further comments are below, but Carole's website suggestion is in point 5 of her reply to you of 22 June on [[Talk:John Giffard (1602-1665)]]. ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_Giffard_%281602-1665%29&diff=561098665&oldid=561095599 diff]) Does it sound like a good idea? &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 13:32, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

== Civility ==

Regarding [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:CaroleHenson&diff=561565507 this edit] to CaroleHenson's talk page, please read [[Wikipedia:Civility]] and ensure you abide by it. Thanks. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 23:06, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

== Some advice ==

Following on from your reply of 25 June above, I'm pleased to hear that you're happy to work with the WP restrictions which, as you know, are set out in our policies, guidelines and the Manual of Style. Of course you have to be aware of them before you can abide by them and while no-one is expected to read every single page, experienced editors such as ourselves ''are'' expected to have absorbed enough knowledge to contribute without their work having to be checked and cleaned up by someone else. However, the recent bout of editing from [[User:CaroleHenson|CaroleHenson]] and myself has shown that this isn't the case for many of your contributions. I have focused on original research and Carole seems particularly keen on accurate sourcing.

You also say above that you're very happy with some of my latest edits: well thank you, but the point is that I shouldn't need to do such clean-up work for an editor who has made almost 14,000 manual edits to articles. Anyone with that many edits who cares about WP should be proud of the work he contributes and should strive to make it the best he can, not only in the research, but in its presentation and accuracy. Once advised that there is a problem, it's not collegial to continue and expect someone else to clean it up. The recent postings at [[Talk:Annery, Monkleigh]] are relevant here.

So... I want to urge you to commit to editing in accordance with our rules. We don't expect perfection, of course, but we can't allow a continuing flow of articles such as [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Whitechapel,_Bishops_Nympton&oldid=543460500 Whitechapel, Bishops Nympton], for example, which appear on the surface to be fine pieces of research – and, yes, I know a great deal of that goes into them – but which also contain nobody knows how much original research and citation errors and extraneous information. Not to mention the style issues.

In view of the above, here's some advice: 
#I know you are aware of our policies on original research and civility, so make sure you follow them. 
#Please ensure that all passages you add are correctly cited (see [[WP:PROVEIT]]: your regular addition of original research indicates that everything you add ought to be challenged), and 
#note that it is not acceptable to put a citation at the end of a block of text that does not cover all the content in that block (which is obvious, but [[WP:INTEGRITY]] is of some relevance here).
#Please follow our [[WP:MOS|Manual of Style]] in presenting your work – if you're still unsure what the "look and feel" of articles should be, a look at some of our featured articles will easily show you without having to read chunks of the manual, though it is quite well indexed.
#Please don't add information that is not pertinent to the topic (see "Rare survivals" above)
#We do not [[WP:OWN|own]] the work we contribute.

We have a policy on [[WP:DE|disruptive editing]] which does not apply to you. But, as you can see if you read that policy, parts of it may do in the future if you continue to contribute as you have done, without taking notice of advice given and efforts made to improve your work. Although the fruits of your research are appreciated here, there ''is'' more to Wikipedia than just adding information to articles. There are other people here and we all have to get along and respect consensus opinions about how things should be done. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 13:16, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

== A book from Google US ==

Hi again. See [[User_talk:CaroleHenson#A_Google_scan_request|this chat]] I've just had with CaroleHenson. If it sounds like the book might be useful to you (as a taster, vol 1 is on archive.com [http://archive.org/details/royallineageour00unkngoog here]) and you'd like a copy, email me and I'll forward it to you. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 22:11, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

==Talkback==
{{talkback|Talk:Petrockstowe|The Medieval Cult of St Petroc|ts=23:59, 27 June 2013 (UTC)}}
[[User:CaroleHenson|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #4997D0;">'''''CaroleHenson'''''</span></span>]] ([[User talk:CaroleHenson#top|<span style="color: #4997D0;">talk</span>]]) 23:59, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

== Retired ==

I saw your retired notice on your user page. One of the things that was a hard lesson for me to learn is that the information posted on Wikipedia needs to be provable / verifiable information. I am guessing that you've done a lot of research and know a lot about the history of Devon, and that there is a disconnect between what you know and what is provable by Wikipedia guidelines.

If you choose to work with Wikipedia, following the guidelines spelled out by [[User:Smalljim|Smalljim]], you would be a tremendous asset. If, on the other hand, you wish to post information somewhere else on the web that has your rich armorial and genealogy/historical information, I wish you well.

{I hope you have email notification of content updates at Wikipedia.)--[[User:CaroleHenson|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #4997D0;">'''''CaroleHenson'''''</span></span>]] ([[User talk:CaroleHenson#top|<span style="color: #4997D0;">talk</span>]]) 13:01, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

==I also wish you well...==
...in whatever you choose to do instead. It's been recognised for a long time that the wiki way of doing things just isn't compatible with some people's preferred way of working and while that's unfortunate, it's definitely no reflection on their ability, worth or anything else. I shall ensure that as much as possible of your work remains here as a monument to those beneficial changes that you have made to Wikipedia.

If you do take the other website route, I look forward to seeing Lobsterthermidor's Genealogy Website becoming a useful web resource and maybe even a source that's regularly cited here. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 14:56, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

:Ditto - I understand why you're retiring, but sad to see you go. [[User:Hchc2009|Hchc2009]] ([[User talk:Hchc2009|talk]]) 19:34, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

== Glad you came back ==

I'm glad to see that you came back!--[[User:CaroleHenson|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #4997D0;">'''''CaroleHenson'''''</span></span>]] ([[User talk:CaroleHenson#top|<span style="color: #4997D0;">talk</span>]]) 19:59, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
:Thanks Carole, I think you'll like my citations better in future. It was a bit of a rough lesson, but if that's how it's got to be done, I'm willing to do it. I see you're now quite an expert on North Devon! ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 20:25, 29 June 2013 (UTC))
::I don't know about that! I think I could have used your help at times, but I've been having fun. I did quite a number of articles about Cornwall towns and artists with someone a bit ago - and now with Devon I have felt like I've on vacation. It's been fun!--[[User:CaroleHenson|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #4997D0;">'''''CaroleHenson'''''</span></span>]] ([[User talk:CaroleHenson#top|<span style="color: #4997D0;">talk</span>]]) 20:43, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

== That was a short break! ==

Are you willing to help check your previous contributions for OR? My message under heading "Original research" above refers. Assuming that you were gone, I started drawing up a list of articles, and was preparing a cleanup plan which involved tagging them with {{tl|Original research}}, but I'm sure we could sort it all out quickly and quietly if we worked together. Let me know what you're prepared to do. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 23:12, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
:To be honest I just want to move on. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 14:04, 1 July 2013 (UTC))
::OK. I'll tag them all with {{tl|Original research}} and add an associated talk page message explaining why. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 15:40, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

== Other Devon articles ==

I have been trying to be mindful of sources that you had said were good: Lauder (which I cannoot view), Lysons, Prince, etc. - and I believe John Burke's Peerage book to be a good source. If you see any sources that I'm using that aren't solid, reliable sources, please let me know. (As an FYI, I'm currently working on  [[Petrockstowe]] and [[Robert Walpole]] articles.)--[[User:CaroleHenson|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #4997D0;">'''''CaroleHenson'''''</span></span>]] ([[User talk:CaroleHenson#top|<span style="color: #4997D0;">talk</span>]]) 18:54, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
:Will do Carole. I like the way you work - I can see you are led on by a growing interest for a subject and follow it where it takes you. I work pretty much the same, hence I was heading [[Palmer House, Great Torrington]] way too! 
:* I have found an invaluable source to be Vivian, you might expect me to say that, and I believe the history of Devon is about people fundamentally, and especially the [[Landed gentry]], who built the large houses, parts of the churches, etc., from whose ranks were appointed all the officials of local government. These are the people who populate Vivian and who are talked about in all the other works.
:* Hoskins is essential, perhaps the most respected by other authors -  some even dedicate their works to him - but his main work ("A New Survey of England: Devon, 1959") is an exhaustive overview  summary and thus lacks detail. I think he's published much of his detailed knowledge in many specialist articles. 
:* Pevsner is the godfather for county architecture, church monuments etc.
:* Risdon's work is also essential. He saw and recorded many documents and facts the sources of which are now lost. He is quoted by all later writers, Prince, Polwhele, Hoskins etc. The 1810 edition has notes which bring histories up to that date. 
:* [[William Pole (antiquary)]] is possibly even better than Risdon, but harder to get hold of.
:*Hoskins, Pevsner and Risdon I find an excellent combination for cross-checking and a 3-D view. 
:* Lauder's Devon Families is good at least for the sort of thing that I find interesting.
:* Ideally also the 2 vol ("2 part") set on the Devonshire Domesday Book, which contains translated transcripts of every entry, and copious notes on the subsequent descents of most manors and estates. Thorn, Caroline & Frank, Domesday Book, Vol. 9, Devon, Parts 1 & 2, Phillimore Press, Chichester, 1985. (That's how I knew Annery wasn't in DB, it's got very good indexes). 
:* Lysons is good also as you know.
:* If you can pick up an old copy (the older the better) of [[Burke's Landed Gentry]] cheap, it's very useful, as it records long descents of families resident on certain estates. 
:I think that's probably more info than you asked for. Off some time soon to inspect you work on Annery! ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 13:56, 1 July 2013 (UTC))

::Wow! That's very helpful, thanks!

::Yep, that would be great. [[User:Smalljim]] did some great work on it, too.--[[User:CaroleHenson|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #4997D0;">'''''CaroleHenson'''''</span></span>]] ([[User talk:CaroleHenson#top|<span style="color: #4997D0;">talk</span>]]) 14:49, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

:::If you're collecting Devon reference material, Carole, you shouldn't omit the 140-odd volumes of the Transactions of the [[Devonshire Association]]. Links to the online volumes (most of them up to vol 52 (1920)), a list of the titles of all the papers, and abstracts of the latest vols are on the TDA website [http://www.devonassoc.org.uk/transactions.htm here].
:::We should all be cautious in making use of those older sources like [[Tristram Risdon]] (died 1640), though, since later research can have revised or even completely overturned what they believed – that's why we usually attribute: "Risdon said ..." &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 14:39, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
::I've bulletised Lt's useful list above for ease of reference in case anyone else comes across it. Maybe it ought to be transplanted into the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Devon|Devon WikiProject]] – it might even liven that project up a bit! &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 14:48, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
:::Even if I say so myself, that's a damned good idea! I mean building up a list of standard sources, with comments on each, if that's allowed off mainspace or is that still POV. Thanks for the link to the TDA, I haven't looked at that yet. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 18:07, 2 July 2013 (UTC))
::::Oh, thanks. I was going to save it on my user page and that makes it much easier to reference.--[[User:CaroleHenson|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #4997D0;">'''''CaroleHenson'''''</span></span>]] ([[User talk:CaroleHenson#top|<span style="color: #4997D0;">talk</span>]]) 18:47, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

::::The requirement to keep to a [[WP:NPOV|neutral POV]] only applies in article space, so which resources to categorise as useful in a WikiProject would be dependent on consensus. I'll get round to adding a list when I can, unless you want to have a go. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 18:56, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
:::::Go ahead, good idea. But more importantly, we'll have a great list of sources, but will we be "allowed" to use them in articles? All OR issues aside, please, my attempt to use the wealth of sources available for the estate of Annery were summarily confounded. (but I will make my input on that on the talk page) The TDA is a virtually untouched goldmine waiting to be exploited by WP Devon, certainly not yet systemmatically consulted by me, as you know it is stuffed full of specialist info, surely looking for its proper place on WP. Some may dismiss it as "parochial", but in the area of parish/manorial/estate histories that is exactly what's needed. We need to have a complete framework of manorial history in place into which can be inserted the odd fact gleaned from TDA. Like a christmas tree on which you can hang baubles. If you've got no tree, or a tree with insufficient branches, you can't utilise the baubles. You can't use high/detailed/specialist-level TDA content on a stub or summary article.  Unless we're prepared to embrace articles which deal with local detail, e.g. [[Manor of Molland]] (OR issues aside, being fixed), most of the valuable contents of the TDA, Vivian, etc will remain unexploited by WP Devon. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 10:23, 4 July 2013 (UTC))

== A talk page tip ==

When starting a new section on a talk page, don't click "Edit" on the previous section and then add a ==heading== beneath because this makes it look, from the edit summary, that you're adding something to the previous section – see your 29 June edit to User talk:Hchc2009 [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hchc2009&offset=20130701000000&limit=7&action=history here], for instance.

Instead, click on the "New section" tag (may appear as "+") at the top of the talk page and you're presented with a Subject/headline box above the edit box. Doing it this way helps the intended recipient and/or other users see that a new topic has been started. [[wikt:HTH|HTH]]. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 14:28, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
:Yes, that's helpful. Thanks. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 18:11, 2 July 2013 (UTC))

==Talkback==
{{talkback|CaroleHenson|ts=13:32, 3 July 2013 (UTC)}}
&nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 13:32, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

== Administrator's noticeboard ==

[[Image:Ambox notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] 
Hello. Please participate in the current discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.   <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 21:14, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

== No personal attacks ==

Lobsterthermidor,

I am pursuing having you blocked from my user pages, in accordance with [[Wikipedia:No personal attacks]] and [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy#Protection]].--[[User:CaroleHenson|<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><span style="color: #4997D0;">'''''CaroleHenson'''''</span></span>]] ([[User talk:CaroleHenson#top|<span style="color: #4997D0;">talk</span>]]) 16:56, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at [[:User talk:CaroleHenson]]. Your edits appear to be [[Wikipedia:Disruptive editing|disruptive]] and have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]] or removed.
* If you are engaged in an article [[Wikipedia:Editing policy|content dispute]] with another editor then please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's [[WP:DISPUTE|dispute resolution]] page, and ask for independent help at one of the [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution#Ask for help at a relevant noticeboard|relevant notice boards]].
* If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's [[WP:ANI|Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]].
Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:List of policies|policies and guidelines]], and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive, until the dispute is resolved through [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]]. Continuing to edit disruptively could result in [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|loss of editing privileges]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-disruptive2 -->

:: Lobster, the point to note here is twofold:  first, you have now been requested by [[User:CaroleHenson]] that you no longer post on her talkpage - this is an acceptable request, and you can be blocked for [[WP:HARASS]] should you continue to post there.  Second, you have been warned (again) about your [[WP:CIVIL|incivility]] - civility is a core pillar of this project, and you can also be blocked for chronic incivility and [[WP:NPA|personal attacks]].  When you are in a disagreement, use [[WP:DR|dispute resolution]], and don't cheapen your argument by resorting to lowball tactics ([[User talk:Bwilkins|✉→]]<span style="font-family:Forte;color:black">[[User:Bwilkins|BWilkins]]</span>[[Special:Contributions/Bwilkins|←✎]]) 17:52, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
:::Ok, I'll be more polite in future. Apologies to CH. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 12:03, 10 July 2013 (UTC))

== Lobsterthermidor returned ==

Hi! Lobsterthermidor has returned to tie up a few loose ends. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 15:17, 12 September 2013 (UTC))
== September 2013 ==

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*<nowiki>*5th: ''Argent a bend engrailed sable'' </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>Radcliffe, as borne by [[Robert Radcliffe, 1st Earl of Sussex]] (d.1542);</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 19:13, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
== October 2013 ==

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*<nowiki>417</ref> Bishop Courtenay Mantelpiece, Bishop's Palace, Exeter, erected by Bishop Peter Courtenay</nowiki>{{red|'''&#93;&#93;'''}}<nowiki></nowiki>
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*<nowiki> charged with a bend, Argent, collar'd, Or, between 2 apple branches fructed of the second".</nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>Lysons, Samuel & Daniel. (1822). [http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=50555 ''Magna</nowiki>
*<nowiki>|</nowiki>{{red|'''&#125;'''}}<nowiki></nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 15:38, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=579142285 your edit] to [[Henry Ford (secretary of state)]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 2 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:Henry Ford (secretary of state)|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
{{{!}} class="navbox collapsible collapsed" style="text-align: left; border: 1px solid silver; margin-top: 0.2em;" {{!}}-
! style="background-color: #FAA;" {{!}} <div style="font-size:112%;">List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page<span style="font-size:88%;margin-left:3em;">(Click show <span style="font-size:130%;">⇨</span>)</span></div>    
{{!}}-
{{!}} style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white; " {{!}} <div style="font-size:112%;">
*<nowiki>Sir '''Henry Ford''' (January 1617<ref>Vivian, p.350</ref>-1684), of [[Nutwell]], Devon|Woodbury</nowiki>{{red|'''&#93;&#93;'''}}<nowiki>, in Devon was four times [[MP]] for [[Tiverton (UK Parliament constituency)|Tiverton]] between</nowiki>
*<nowiki> charged with a bend, Argent, collar'd, Or, between 2 apple branches fructed of the second".</nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>Lysons, Samuel & Daniel. (1822). [http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=50555 ''Magna</nowiki>
*<nowiki>|</nowiki>{{red|'''&#125;'''}}<nowiki></nowiki>
</div>
{{!}}}
Thanks, <!-- (0, -2, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 18:32, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=579387120 your edit] to [[John Dynham, 1st Baron Dynham]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s and  2 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:John Dynham, 1st Baron Dynham|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>**Firstly to [[Fulk Bourchier, 10th Baron FitzWarin]]</nowiki>{{red|'''&#93;&#93;'''}}<nowiki><ref>Mosley, ed. ''Burke's Peerage'' 107th Edition Delaware 2003 Vol. 3 p.4290</ref> (1445–1479),<</nowiki>
*<nowiki>& 4th: ''Gules, four fusils ermine'' (Dinham), 2nd & 3rd ''Gules, three pairs of arches argent'' </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>Arches, for Sir Richard Arches (d.1417) of Eythorpe, Cranwell and Little Kimble, Buckinghamshire,</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (1, -2, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 01:58, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

==Disruptive editing==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|30px|alt=|link=]] Please stop your [[Wikipedia:Disruptive editing|disruptive editing]], as you did at [[:Dunsland]]. Your edits have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]] or removed.
* If you are engaged in an article [[Wikipedia:Editing policy|content dispute]] with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's [[WP:DISPUTE|dispute resolution]] page, and ask for independent help at one of the [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution#Ask for help at a relevant noticeboard|relevant notice boards]].
* If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's [[WP:ANI|Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]].
Do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive until the dispute is resolved through [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]]. Continuing to edit disruptively may result in your being [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]]. <!-- Template:uw-disruptive3 --> ''This cannot continue. I corrected a number of substantive errors that you made in this article, and made many other improvements, as explained in my edit summaries (and just now at the article talk page). I see no need to explain these changes further, and I am not prepared to instigate further fruitless attempts to explain our policies and guidelines to you - see above, and several article talk pages etc. This templated warning sets out the things you can do now. Reverting [[Dunsland]] again is not an option.'' &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 20:18, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
::Ignored. This message was posted by an admin who is an interested editor in this sphere, who has been engaging in edit-warring with Lobsterthermidor for two years. He is here confusing his role of admin and interested editor. The disruptive edit was in fact his, a  total and drastic rewrite of a new article (Dunsland) submitted by me, without any discussion on talk page whatsoever, a clear action of edit-warring in the middle of a prolonged edit-war. I simply reverted his drastic edits, which he must have known were part of his pattern of behaviour of edit warring and likely to prove inflammatory, and asked him to discuss on talk first. His edit-warring with Lobsterthermidor is becoming increasingly obsessive and pedantic - he broke off a 2 month wikibreak especially to continue his edit warring with 3 of my brand new articles. His contributions log evidences his actions in this regard. I've made suggestions as how to end the edit war, namely by not making major edits to each others' articles (I've never knowingly ever edited one of his articles, the traffic's all been one-way) without prior discussion. Let's see if he ceases his behaviour.  ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 13:32, 31 October 2013 (UTC))
:::I can assure you that I have very carefully segregated my admin role from that of an interested editor, and that warning was posted in that second role. It was intended to help you mend your ways before I finally gave in and asked another admin to look at your behaviour again. I have almost infinite patience, but I can do no more.
:::For interested parties, the relevant discussions regarding Lt's behaviour since his return are at [[Talk:Dunsland]], [[Talk:John Arscott (1613-1675)]], [[Talk:Tetcott]] and [[Talk:Whitechapel, Bishops Nympton]]. I've already dealt with his other points on those pages. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 15:53, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

[[Image:Ambox notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.   <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 15:53, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

===Apology===
Lobsterthermidor, I want to apologise for that second revert to [[Dunsland]] and for the above warning that I issued. A temporary loss of my normal imperturbability caused me to manage the situation badly. I'm sorry – it won't happen again. If you want to revert Dunsland back to your version, I'll be happy to work on improving it with you, calling on [[WP:3O]] if appropriate.

Going forward, since the editors who've seen our disagreements have shown little interest in my concern for accuracy in WP's articles, there seems to be no point in continuing to review your edits and running the risk of causing further discord. So although I propose to tidy up some of the outstanding issues, I'll otherwise only deal with anything that I happen across during routine editing. In other words you can rejoice that the "two year vexatious edit war with Smalljim, who has developed a creepy habit of following him around WP" [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:John_Arscott_%281613-1675%29&oldid=579642521] – as you have picturesquely described my intermittent attempts to help you since July last year – has ended :) &nbsp;—[[User:Smalljim|S<small>MALL</small>]][[User talk:Smalljim#top|<small>JIM</small>]]&nbsp; 13:39, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
:Apology accepted, thank you. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 12:30, 19 November 2013 (UTC))

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Resilient Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Resilient Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | You are the pride and joy of Wikipedia! Without people like you Wikipedia would not move forward! [[User:Banaster Giver Extra Polite|Banaster Giver Extra Polite]] ([[User talk:Banaster Giver Extra Polite|talk]]) 11:37, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
|}
:Wow! That means a hell of a lot to me. Thanks a million. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 12:05, 9 November 2013 (UTC))
== November 2013 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=581026186 your edit] to [[John Bourchier, 2nd Earl of Bath]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:John Bourchier, 2nd Earl of Bath|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>heraldry.org.uk) & sculpted on gatehouse of Tawstock Court, Devon)</ref>, Martin, Dinham, Arches</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki> impaling Donnington (''Argent, three pallets azure on a chief gules three bezants'')<ref>Gage,</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (-1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 11:14, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=581030235 your edit] to [[Thomas Kitson]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:Thomas Kitson|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>heraldry.org.uk) & sculpted on gatehouse of Tawstock Court, Devon)</ref>, Martin, Dinham, Arches</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki> impaling Donnington (''Argent, three pallets azure on a chief gules three bezants'')<ref>Gage,</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (-1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 12:00, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=581172078 your edit] to [[Goggin coat of arms]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:Goggin coat of arms|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>; "fig" by Rokewode, John Gage, History and Antiquities of Suffolk: Thingoe Hundred, 1838, pp.218-9</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki>; "Aspen" by the Middlesex Heraldry Society<ref>www.middlesex-heraldry.org.uk re blason of arms on</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (-1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 12:08, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=582287190 your edit] to [[William Bourchier, 1st Count of Eu]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:William Bourchier, 1st Count of Eu|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>billets or'',<ref>As shown quartered by Bourchier in stained glass at [[Hengrave Hall]], Suffolk. </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>The History and Antiquities of Hengrave, in Suffolk, by John Gage [http://books.google.co.uk/books?</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 23:45, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=582666181 your edit] to [[Henry Bourchier, 2nd Earl of Essex]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:Henry Bourchier, 2nd Earl of Essex|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>gules between four water bougets sable'' (Bourchier); 2nd: ''Gules billety or a fess argent'' </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>Louvain, [[English feudal barony|feudal barons]] of [[Little Easton]], Essex (for the mother of the</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 13:15, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=583378201 your edit] to [[Elizabeth Bassett (maid-of-honour)]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:Elizabeth Bassett (maid-of-honour)|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>. Apparently no letter was ever received by Honor Grenville/Plantagenet from "Elizabeth Basset", </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>nil from Philippa, 3 from Katherine, 10 from Anne, 13 from Mary.(Byrne, vol.1, p.87). The names of</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 12:58, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=583396265 your edit] to [[Sir John Basset]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 2 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:Sir John Basset|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>of Sir [[John IV Dynham]] (1406-1458)<ref>Vivian, p.46</ref> of [[Nutwell, Woodbury|Nutwell]], </nowiki>{{red|'''&#91;&#91;'''}}<nowiki>Kingskerswell and [[Hartland, Devon|Hartland]]. Joan Beaumont was heiress to her brother Sir Philip</nowiki>
*<nowiki>[[Arthur Plantagenet, 1st Viscount Lisle]], bastard son of King [[Edward IV of England|Edward IV]] </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>she married secondly Thomas Monke (died 1583), of Potheridge in [[Merton, Devon]] (as his first</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (0, 2, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 15:47, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

== Autopatrolled rights added ==

I was cleaning up the back end of [[Special:NewPages|new pages]] and came across [[John I Rolle (1522-1570)]] as unpatrolled.  Looking further at your [https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/pages/index.php?name=Lobsterthermidor&lang=en&wiki=wikipedia&namespace=0&redirects=noredirects prolific article creation history] I was shocked to find that you didn't have autoptrolled rights.   I've added that privilege along with reviewer to your account.  Cheers. [[User:Toddst1|Toddst1]] <small>([[User talk: Toddst1|talk]])</small> 14:54, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
:Very much appreciated, thanks. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 15:04, 11 November 2013 (UTC))
== December 2013 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=584051278 your edit] to [[John Montacute, 3rd Earl of Salisbury]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 2 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:John Montacute, 3rd Earl of Salisbury|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki> John]], (1643–1723) The Worthies of Devon, 1810 edition, p.462, biography of Sir William Hankford</nowiki>{{red|'''&#93;&#93;'''}}<nowiki>; [[Tristram Risdon|Risdon, Tristram]] (d.1640), Survey of Devon, 1811 edition, London, 1811, with</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (0, -2, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 13:50, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

{{talkback|Talk:John Fortescue (judge)|History of Parliament Biog.|tp=1}}
==File permission problem with File:HugodeRosel 0001.jpg==
[[File:Copyright-problem.svg|64px|left|alt=|link=]]
Thanks for uploading '''[[:File:HugodeRosel 0001.jpg]]'''. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file has agreed to release it under the given license. 

If you are the copyright holder for this media entirely yourself but have previously published it elsewhere (especially online), please either 
* make a note permitting reuse under the [[WP:CC-BY-SA|CC-BY-SA]] or another acceptable free license (see [[Wikipedia:File copyright tags/Free licenses|this list]]) '''at the site of the original publication'''; or
* Send an email from an address associated with the original publication to '''permissions-en@wikimedia.org''', stating your ownership of the material and your intention to publish it under a free license. You can find a sample permission letter [[WP:CONSENT|here]]. If you take this step, add {{tl|OTRS pending}} to the file description page to prevent premature deletion.

If you did not create it entirely yourself, please ask the person who created the file to take one of the two steps listed above, or if the owner of the file has already given their permission to you via email, please forward that email to '''permissions-en@wikimedia.org'''. 

If you believe the media meets the criteria at [[Wikipedia:Non-free content]], use a tag such as {{tl|non-free fair use}} or one of the other tags listed at [[Wikipedia:File copyright tags#Fair use]], and add a [[Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline|rationale]] justifying the file's use on the article or articles where it is included. See [[Wikipedia:File copyright tags]] for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have provided evidence that their copyright owners have agreed to license their works under the tags you supplied, too. You can find a list of files you have created in [{{fullurl:Special:Log|type=upload&user=Lobsterthermidor}} your upload log]. '''Files lacking evidence of permission may be deleted one week after they have been tagged''', as described on [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Files|criteria for speedy deletion]]. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:image use policy|image use policy]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-no permission-notice --> — [[User:Smuconlaw|SMUconlaw]] ([[User talk:Smuconlaw|talk]]) 16:14, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
::This is a photo of artwork created in 1626, published as frontispiece of ''Two Centuries of Family History'' (1930). Apologies for the unclear wording. Should be no problems with licence, the image is in the public domain. I will upload to commons. Hope that's OK. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 16:53, 10 January 2014 (UTC))
== January 2014 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=590241329 your edit] to [[Fishing weir]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:Fishing weir|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>A '''fishing weir''', or '''fish weir''', '''fishgarth''' etc.</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki> is an obstruction placed in tidal waters or wholly or partially across a river, which is designed</nowiki>
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*<nowiki>p.617). Rector of Pensthorpe, Rector of Great Massingham in 1698. MA Christ's College, Oxford 1651 </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>Peile, John, Biographical Register of Christ's College 1505-1905, vol.1[http://books.google.co.uk/</nowiki>
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*<nowiki>above the SE door of [[Tawstock]] church, Devon, next to the Bourchier seat of Tawstock Court</ref></nowiki>{{red|'''&#93;&#93;'''}}<nowiki></nowiki>
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*<nowiki>1503 by Bishop of Exeter [[John Arundel (bishop of Exeter)|John Arundel]] (reigned 1502-1504).<ref></nowiki>{{red|'''&#91;'''}}<nowiki>https://archive.org/stream/historyofgranvil00gran#page/n9/mode/2up Granville, Roger, (Rector of</nowiki>
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*<nowiki>of Bishop of Exeter [[Walter de Stapledon]] (d.1326) for the maintenance of Bideford Bridge.<ref></nowiki>{{red|'''&#91;'''}}<nowiki>https://archive.org/stream/historyofgranvil00gran#page/n9/mode/2up Granville, Roger, (Rector of</nowiki>
*<nowiki>1503 by Bishop of Exeter [[John Arundel (bishop of Exeter)|John Arundel]] (reigned 1502-1504).<ref></nowiki>{{red|'''&#91;'''}}<nowiki>https://archive.org/stream/historyofgranvil00gran#page/n9/mode/2up Granville, Roger, (Rector of</nowiki>
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*<nowiki>The river rises close to the border with [[Cornwall]] </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>north of the source of the [[River Tamar]] [http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=227510&y=117240&</nowiki>
*<nowiki>]s of Great Torrington and other persons assembled to witness the commencement of the"'' ...</nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>word chiselled out (ROLLE?)... ''"CANAL undertaken at the sole expense of his Lordship. James Green</nowiki>
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== [[:Bideford Long Bridge]] ==

Hello, {{BASEPAGENAME}}, and thank you for your contributions!

An article you worked on [[:Bideford Long Bridge]], appears to be directly copied from http://www.northdevonjournal.co.uk/closer-look-Bideford-s-Long-Bridge/story-12151830-detail/story.html.  Please take a minute to make sure that the text is freely licensed and properly attributed as a reference, otherwise the article may be deleted. 

It's entirely possible that this bot made a mistake, so please feel free to remove this notice and the tag it placed on [[:Bideford Long Bridge]] if necessary.<!--Template:Csb-notice-pageincludes-experienced-test--> [[User:MadmanBot|MadmanBot]] ([[User talk:MadmanBot|talk]]) 12:53, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
:Not guilty! Following the MadMan duplicate detector report, all I can say is I split out this text word for word from an existing WP article [[Bideford]], as noted on the edit summary, so it appears that article is the root of the problem if any, unless of course the North Devon Jnl lifted copy from WP. Nevertheless I will undertake to rephrase the existing text to remove any possible copyright problem.([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 13:03, 27 January 2014 (UTC))

== Move reverted. ==

[[Image:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, and thank you for [[Special:Contributions/Lobsterthermidor|your contributions]] to Wikipedia. Your bold move of [[:Townhouse]] has been reverted because an editor has found it to be controversial. Per [[Wikipedia:Requested moves]], a move request must be placed on the article's talk page, and the request be open for discussion for seven days, "[[Wikipedia:Requested moves#Requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves|if there is any reason to believe a move would be contested]]". If you believe that this move is appropriate, please initiate such a discussion. Please note that moving a page with a longstanding title and/or a large number of incoming links is more likely to be considered controversial, and may be contested. <!-- Template:Movereverted --> Per [[WP:TWODABS]], a disambiguation page is not needed at all where there are only two meanings asserted for a term, and one can be considered primary over the other. In that case, disambiguation can be accomplished in a hatnote. It appears that the meaning of "townhouse" referring to continuous row housing is the common meaning of the term throughout most of the English-speaking world. [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:gold;">'''''bd2412'''''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 15:09, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
:I think that's what the Brits call "terraced housing". But that's fine. Keep the US sense as the primary page and the split-off page is there for those Brits who follow the traditional sense. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 23:09, 3 February 2014 (UTC))
:: Thanks for your understanding. Cheers! [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:gold;">'''''bd2412'''''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 13:43, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
== February 2014 ==

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*<nowiki>Before the [[Norman Conquest]] of 1066 the highest sub-regal authority in Devon was the </nowiki>{{red|'''&#91;'''}}<nowiki>[Ealdorman], of which office the later Earldom of Devon  was a re-invention, if not an actual</nowiki>
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== Category:English copyists ==

Hi Lobsterthermidor, I've nominated the category that you recently created, [[:Category:English copyists]] for deletion. If you would like to take part in the discussion you can find it [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_February_11#Category:English_copyists|HERE]]. Kind regards. [[User:Sionk|Sionk]] ([[User talk:Sionk|talk]]) 20:44, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

== Manorial history ==

Thanks for your edit adding the manorial history to [[Shapwick, Somerset]]. I was wondering if you can make any sense/clarify the paragraph on [[Northmoor Green]] about manorial owners which seems to be shorthand but also has Dunning in brackets?&mdash; [[User:Rodw|Rod]] <sup>[[User talk:Rodw|talk]]</sup> 08:26, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
:Looks like total gibberish to me, have deleted it (if you disagree please restore). Better to start again from standard sources on history of Somerset.([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 14:47, 16 February 2014 (UTC))
::Thanks. Fine by me.&mdash; [[User:Rodw|Rod]] <sup>[[User talk:Rodw|talk]]</sup> 15:03, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
== Reference Errors on 19 February ==

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== March 2014 ==

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*<nowiki>journal, it is now believed his brother Adam Wyote was the town clerk and author of the journal </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>Lamplugh, Lois, Barnstaple: Town on the Taw, South Molton, 2002, pp.45-6</ref> Wyote (or Wyatt) was</nowiki>
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*<nowiki>for Fowey for the [[Short Parliament]] and re-elected in November 1640 for the [[Long Parliament]].</nowiki>{{red|'''&#125;'''}}<nowiki>{{sfn|Willis|1750|p=230, 242}} He supported the King in the Civil War and was disabled from sitting</nowiki>
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*<nowiki>Gentry, 15th Edition, ed. Pirie-Gordon, H., London, 1937, pp. 1891–3, Rashleigh of Menabilly</ref></nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki>  Royal Cornwall Museum, Truro]]</nowiki>
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*<nowiki>bend gules three cinquefoils or'' (Stradling); 2: ''Azure, a chevron between three crescents or'' </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>Berkerolles of [[Coity Castle]], Glamorgan; 3: ''Chequy...and...afess ermine'' (Turberville of [[</nowiki>
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*<nowiki>*Sir </nowiki>{{red|'''&#91;&#91;'''}}<nowiki>William Fortescue (1687-1749),[[King's Counsel|KC]], [[Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council|</nowiki>
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== LORD OF BOWLAND ==

Stephen William Jolly, a Cambridge don, is Lord of the Forest of Bowland, according to the Manorial Society. He is known as "William Bowland" within the Forest (check with the Forest Archive at Slaidburn; contact Helen Wallbank).  His son, Henry, has the name "Fitzjoly" as William Bowland's natural child.

Please check facts before proposing deletion! [[User:Manorial|Manorial]] ([[User talk:Manorial|talk]]) 14:02, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
:Wikipedia is not an appropriate place to promote purchased manorial titles. Please use your own private website for that purpose, if you must.([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 16:47, 7 March 2014 (UTC))

== Hello ==

You recently edited [[Coat of arms of the Netherlands]]. You may be interested in a Request for Comment on it's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Coat_of_arms_of_the_Netherlands#RfC:_Which_set_of_coat_of_arms_should_be_used_on_this_article talk page]. '''[[User:Fry1989|<span style="color:#003384;">Fry1989</span>]]''' <sup>'''[[User talk:Fry1989|<span style="color:#cc111a;">eh?</span>]]'''</sup> 16:48, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
:Have added my comment to the talk page. ([[User:Lobsterthermidor|Lobsterthermidor]] ([[User talk:Lobsterthermidor#top|talk]]) 14:55, 27 March 2014 (UTC))
== April 2014 ==

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*<nowiki>charged with four [[Cross|crosses patée fitchée]] sable''<ref>Debrett's Peerage, 1968, p.214</ref></nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki></nowiki>
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== May 2014 ==

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*<nowiki>Sir William was knighted on 25 March 1576, <ref name="Shawp77">{{harvnb|Shaw|1906|p=77</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki>}}</ref> served as [[Sheriff of Devon]] for 1579–80 and was also involved in the [[Plantations of</nowiki>
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*<nowiki>a Description of the County of Devon, Sir John-William de la Pole (ed.), London, 1791, p.498</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki>. Alternatively: ''Ermine, a chevron gules a chief azure fretty or'' (per Vivian, (Ed.) The</nowiki>
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