View source for Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 11

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=== November 11 ===
<!-- Please do not add new nominations here.
     Use the current day's NEW NOMINATIONS section
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==== Category:Afghan women cricketers ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''keep'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:Edward-Woodrow|Edward-Woodrow]] ([[User talk:Edward-Woodrow|talk]]) 00:06, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Afghan women cricketers]] to [[:Category:Afghan cricketers]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' [[WP:SMALLCAT]], only 1 person in the category, and given that the [[Afghanistan women's national cricket team]] no longer exists (and they only played a handful of matches ever), it's unlikely that there are other notable Afghan women cricketers who could be added to this category (I did not find any other existing articles for Afghan women cricketers). [[Roya Samim]] was previously in {{cl|Afghan cricketers}} (which is the category where all men's cricketers are) and so should be upmerged back there. No need to split by gender when there's only 1 woman in the women's category. [[User:Joseph2302|<b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b>]][[User talk:Joseph2302|<b style="color:#000000">2302</b>]] ([[User talk:Joseph2302|talk]]) 08:57, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* <s>Tentative '''support'''. I think they'd also need to be added to [[:Category:Women cricketers]] [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 02:35, 25 October 2023 (UTC)</s> '''Keep '''per Place Clichy [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 20:42, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Mild keep'''. This is arguably part of a coherent structure of categories, which would allow it to be kept even if small per [[WP:SMALLCAT]]. Also, [[WP:CATGENDER]] explicitly indicates that sportspeople categories are split by gender when their sport is. Arguably, it is more defining for Samin to have played ''women's cricket'' than just ''cricket'', as I guess that cricket is not mixed in Afghanistan. I agree that potential for expansion is low. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 13:25, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
*: [[WP:CATGENDER]] never seems to have had a consensus to demand sportpeople to categorise this way, this probably needs a wider discussion at [[WT:SPORTS]] since tonnes of single-gender sports don't categorise everyone by gender. [[User:Joseph2302|<b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b>]][[User talk:Joseph2302|<b style="color:#000000">2302</b>]] ([[User talk:Joseph2302|talk]]) 11:36, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
*:: Tonnes? I can only think of 3 major sports that don't discriminate participants: sailing, horse-riding and chess. In terms of categories, we sometimes have a root apparently non-gendered category which is in fact the ''male'' category, with a female ghetto subcategory. I don't really call that single-gender. I am all in favour of non-gendered categories for non-gendered occupations. I agree that separation is not very useful ''here'', hence only the ''mild'' keep. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 04:00, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
*::: There are tonnes of single gender sports (i.e. they have separate men's and women's teams) where the players aren't categorised by gender. I don't see any reason, or any actual consensus, that this should be done for all sports with separate men's and women's teams. [[WP:CATGENDER]] looks to have been created without any discussion/consensus, a wider discussion on this at [[WT:SPORTS]] would be a sensible outcome. But keeping a category with 1 person that can never have any more people, as the team has been disbanded, is ridiculous. [[User:Joseph2302|<b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b>]][[User talk:Joseph2302|<b style="color:#000000">2302</b>]] ([[User talk:Joseph2302|talk]]) 17:15, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Keep''', the category seems to be of established [[:Category:Women cricketers by nationality]] tree and helpful for intra navigation and also per above. [[User:Respublik|Respublik]] ([[User talk:Respublik|talk]]) 19:33, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
:* A category with one person is not helpful for any navigation at all. [[User:Joseph2302|<b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b>]][[User talk:Joseph2302|<b style="color:#000000">2302</b>]] ([[User talk:Joseph2302|talk]]) 11:36, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 19:02, 3 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 22:02, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* '''Keep''' per Clichy. Even one is interesting, and her gender will not be obvious to most from her name. You can expect a team to be revived at some point I think - heaven knows, there are enough refugess. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 15:57, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Naturalised subjects of the Kingdom of Great Britain ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''Delete''' as uncontested for weeks. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 02:56, 23 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
:* '''Propose merging and rename''' merge [[:Category:Naturalised subjects of the Kingdom of Great Britain]] with [[:Category:Naturalised citizens of the United Kingdom]] and rename to [[:Category:Naturalised British subjects]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' merge and then rename to Naturalized British subjects because these two categories are overlapping where regime doesn't make a difference [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 02:06, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Cautious support'''. This also has the advantage that the idea of "citizenship" wasn't embraced in Britain until the 1940s. I also like the -z-, which is fine in British spelling as well as standard in American. However, there is surely the problem that the parent category is [[:Category:Naturalized citizens by country]], and "British" doesn't supply a country. GB was a country and the UK is one. What I would not want to see is the next step of moving to a UK category, when the UK only dates from 1801 but in Wikipedia categories has a nasty way of moving back in time, sonetimes as far as the Middle Ages. [[User:Moonraker|Moonraker]] ([[User talk:Moonraker|talk]]) 02:54, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
*:Ahhh, that's an excellent point. I hadn't really considered the parent country category. Hmmmm, I was basing the name off of the child category [[:Category:Naturalized British subjects in Canada‎]] but you're right that that would probably have some annoyingly messy downstream category consequences. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 03:21, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
* <s>''Merge and rename''</s> as nom. Re ''Wikipedia categories moving back in time'', Wikipedia categories are organized both historically and geographically, and there's not really a way around it. If that gives us the occasional anachronism, so be it. The Stuarts are part of British history, and the Hohenstaufens part of German history. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 13:37, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
::But anachronisms distort facts, and they also multiply. Surely if they can be avoided by treading carefully they are best avoided. [[User:Moonraker|Moonraker]] ([[User talk:Moonraker|talk]]) 16:08, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
::: Change to '''Oppose''' (after relisting). Read too quickly and confused this with the UK. Sure, ''subject'' is more appropriate for the 18th-century KGB and ''citizen'' is indeed anachronistic. ''(Something inside me doubts that we really have sources for an actual "naturalisation" for these people, though, and maybe that is anachronistic too).'' [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 01:32, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. This one is fine as it is and is consistent with the other categories in the tree. Certainly do not use "Naturalized". We always use the "s" form for British topics on Wikipedia as far more common in modern British English. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 15:55, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 19:01, 3 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* '''Just delete''', it is an unlikely characteristic to be published about, especially for people in the 18th century. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 14:38, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
*: I also support '''deletion''' as 2nd-best option in the spirit of consensus, because of the small number of people for which this would actually be defining. For a very large majority of cases, emigrant/immigrant categories are usually defining enough for people who change countries, and how sources would most often describe them. Only in very special cases like the [[Handel's Naturalisation Act 1727]] for [[George Frideric Handel]] do we have specific information on <u>''naturalisation''</u>. Hence this is defining for Handel, but maybe only for him, and we don't need to keep a category for that. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 11:24, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 22:01, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Radojević noble family ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:Radojević-Mirković noble family]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 16:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Radojević noble family}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' 1 person in family, no interlanguage category link [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 02:59, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* <s>'''Delete''' per nom.</s> [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:25, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' - I am most likely the only remaining editor still creating (probably working in general) articles on the subject of Bosnia's medieval history, including these BIO's. At this point categories '''Radojević''' and '''Mirković''' (below) really make good candidate for deletion, but they are both "cats with potential" and I created them because I have planned to create additional BIO's and article on related subjects in the first place. For these reasons '''I suggest''' deletion of one of them and rename of the remaining one into '''Radojević-Mirković noble family'''.--[[User:Santasa99|<span style="color:maroon;text-shadow:#666362 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;font-size:0.8em;">'''౪ Santa ౪'''</span>]][[User talk:Santasa99|<span style="color:navy;text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;font-size:0.7em"><sup>'''''99°'''''</sup></span>]] 10:12, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
*:I'd support a merge of the two families into '''Radojević-Mirković noble family''' [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 20:43, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' to [[:Category:Radojević-Mirković noble family]] per Santasa99 (see also [[#Category:Mirković noble family]]). [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 06:22, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 21:58, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* I strike my vote. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:31, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Mirković noble family ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:Radojević-Mirković noble family]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 16:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Mirković noble family}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' 1 person in family, no interlanguage category link [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 02:58, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* <s>'''Delete''' per nom.</s> [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:25, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' - see Radojević above .--[[User:Santasa99|<span style="color:maroon;text-shadow:#666362 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;font-size:0.8em;">'''౪ Santa ౪'''</span>]][[User talk:Santasa99|<span style="color:navy;text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;font-size:0.7em"><sup>'''''99°'''''</sup></span>]] 10:12, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' to [[:Category:Radojević-Mirković noble family]] per Santasa99 in above discussion (see [[#Category:Radojević noble family]]). [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 06:22, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 21:57, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* I strike my vote. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:32, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Psychological drama television and other works ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename''' to [[:Category:Psychological television series]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 16:49, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Psychological drama television and other works]] to [[:Category:Psychological drama works]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' "television and other works" seems like a very bizarre categorization, why not just say "works"? [[User:Di (they-them)|Di (they-them)]] ([[User talk:Di (they-them)|talk]]) 02:34, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Alt rename''' to [[:Category:Psychological television series]] since all entries are television series. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:32, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Support''' rename to [[:Category:Psychological television series]] as more descriptive than the proposed rename. However, '''weak support''' the original rename to [[:Category:Psychological drama works]]. [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 05:37, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 21:56, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
*'''Support''' alt rename to {{clc|Category:Psychological television series}}. [[User:Edward-Woodrow|Edward-Woodrow]] ([[User talk:Edward-Woodrow|talk]]) 00:07, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Politicians' topics ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:Politicians]], [[:Category:Heads of state]], and [[:Category:Heads of government]]; respectively. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> <b style="font-family:Courier New;">[[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|<span style="color:#7D066B;">Blaster</span>]]</b><sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 13:11, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Politicians' topics}}
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Heads of state topics}}
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Heads of government topics}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' I added the politicians category, but I really don't know what the purpose of isolating all these political categories is. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 00:41, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
::'''Oppose'''. There are many topics related to politicians, heads of state, or government that are not actually politicians, heads of state, or government. When I look for politicians, I expect finding politicians, not political hostesses for instance. I think it is better to separate topics related to politicians from politicians themselves. 
::When I run a PetScan query to check for politicians, there are many entries as indicated that are not politicians which can constitute a headache when checking for potential entries of new categories. Check also the page [[List of current heads of state and government]]. You won't find included in the list itself books about current heads of state, houses of current heads of state, wives of current heads of state, etc. 
::I wouldn't oppose renaming it to [[:Category:Political topics]] though. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 04:59, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Upmerge''' rather than delete, redundant category layer. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:38, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
*:Can you clarfiy where to upmerge to @[[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]]? Because the page creator @[[User:Thinker78|Thinker78]] had removed the parent category of [[:Category:Politicians]] as "these entries are not politicians" [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Politicians%27_topics&curid=75203730&diff=1183263529&oldid=1183232032]. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 17:37, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
*:* To the original parents [[:Category:Politicians]], [[:Category:Heads of state]] and [[:Category:Heads of government]] respectively. Even if we would keep [[:Category:Politicians' topics]] (which I do not advocate) it should still be under [[:Category:Politicians]]. The creation of these categories does not solve something, it just results in more effort in navigation. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:51, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
*:*:I disagree. It was precisely to try to solve a problem that I created the category. Check the thread at [[Category talk:Political families of the United States#Political families are not politicians|Category talk:Political families of the United States#Political families are not politicians]]. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 21:08, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
*:*::I don't think your solution solves the problem we were discussing in that thread [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 20:36, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
:'''Comment'''. Per [[WP:CATDEF]], {{tq2|The defining characteristics of an article's topic are central to categorizing the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently refer to in describing the topic. [...] For example, Italian and artist are defining characteristics of Caravaggio, and so of the article on him, because virtually all reliable sources on the topic mention them. }} What are the defining characteristics of "Awards honoring politicians"? Are they politicians or awards? They are "something that is conferred or bestowed especially on the basis of merit or need"<ref>{{cite web|title=award|url=https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/award|website=Merriam Webster}}</ref> <em>for</em> politicians. They are not politicians, politicians is not a defining characteristic of said awards, they are a recognition for politicians, a defining characteristic is that they are a politician-related item or topic. What are the defining characteristics of chiefs of staff? Are they all politicians? Or is more accurate to define them with another characteristic that encompasses the whole category's entries? 
:Per [[WP:EPONYMOUS]], 
:{{tq2|The article New York City is in Category:Populated places established in 1624, but this category is not necessarily relevant to the content of Category:New York City, so it should not be used on the eponymous category.}}
:Per [[WP:CATMAIN]],
:{{tq2|If eponymous categories are categorized separately from their articles, it will be helpful to make links between the category page containing the articles and the category page containing the eponymous categories. The template {{tlx|Related category}} can be used for this. An example of this set-up is the linked categories [[:Category:American politicians]] and [[:Category:Wikipedia categories named after American politicians]].}}  Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 00:24, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 21:55, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
::Per [[WP:PARENTCAT]], 
::{{tq2|Categorization should not be made by the type of an article. A biographical article about a specific person, for example, does not belong in [[:Category:Biography (genre)]].}}
::In the case at hand, [[:Category:Awards honoring politicians‎]] or [[:Category:Political families of the United States]], for example, do not belong in [[:Category:Politicians]], because the awards or families may be a topic about politicians, but are not necessarily politicians and as such should not be categorized under [Category:Politicians]. That's a reason why I created the [[:Category:Politicians' topics]]. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 02:57, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
::* I disagree completely with the reference to [[WP:PARENTCAT]].  Biography is a type of article, an award isn't. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:19, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
::*:[Category:Awards honoring politicians] is a type of article related to politicians, therefore it is categorized under Politicians, which shouldn't be the case because awards are not politicians. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 03:48, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
::*:* That is not what [[WP:PARENTCAT]] is about. That is about adding articles to the right category. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:59, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
::*:*:I '''concur''' with Marocapelle's interpretation. I think that Thinker78 is misunderstanding some of the core concepts related to categories. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 19:16, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
::*:*::Or maybe I have a different interpretation than yours more according to the spirit of the guideline and not an overly restrictive deletionist interpretation. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 00:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
::*:*:::I don't think it's a matter of differential interpretation or a difference in philosophy, I think that you ''really'' are missing something fundamental if you're unable to recognize the difference between articles and categories. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 00:03, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
::*:*::::@[[User:Smasongarrison|Smasongarrison]] I think you should keep it collegial. Basically asserting you have the ultimate knowledge of the guideline over me and because I don't agree with you I am being "unable to recognize" stuff is inappropriate. As I indicated, this is simply a matter of different interpretations and categorical philosophies. Therefore, again, I request that you refrain from direct inappropriate accusations that "I am unable to recognize differences". Instead, try refuting my explanations, properly. Sincerely, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 00:09, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
::*:*:::::Hi Thinker78, I've been trying as has Marco in explaining to you what the disconnect is with your interpretation are. I am trying to do so collegially...I didn't say that you were incompetent. I said "I think that you ''really'' are missing something fundamental '''if''' you're unable to recognize the difference between articles and categories" I am raising the question as I think you might be missing something key to '''''how categories work'''''. I don't know what "it" is but I really don't know how to teach you about some really core tenants about categorization. I'm not trying to lord over you or argue that my "deletionist" interpretation is correct. But I don't know where to start if you're reading that defining applies to categories the same as it does for articles. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 00:24, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
::*:*::::::Now you added the word "incompetent". I didn't say anything about "incompetent" but for some reason you now are saying you didn't say I am incompetent. Why don't you watch more the things you say instead? Because you are starting being rude. Again, you have your interpretation of things, I have mine, and other editors have theirs. This discussion is not about "teaching" or majorities. This discussion is about finding [[WP:CONSENSUS]]. <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 03:25, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
::*:*:::::::This discussion has been derailed. I think it's time for a close. <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 03:27, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Upmerge''' to politicians etc. It is a defining factor for political families or political awards that they are considered in regards to politicians. For items that have a heritage relationship to a parent category that is not strict diffusion, we can use special sort keys, among other means to clarify the heritage relationship. A category chain like Countries in Europe > Italy > Cities in Italy > Rome does not make Rome a country in Europe. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 17:11, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] Can you check [[Category talk:Political families of the United States#Political families are not politicians]]? I appreciate your insights as it is directly related to the present question. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 20:45, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
*:: Respectfully, I think that all I have to say on this topic is summarized in my comment above. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 01:29, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Comment''': Per [[WP:CAT#TREE]], 
:{{tq2|'''Topic categories''' are named after a topic (usually sharing a name with the Wikipedia article on that topic). For example, [[:Category:France]] contains articles relating to the topic [[France]].}}
:{{tq2|'''Set categories''' are named after a class (usually in the plural). For example, [[:Category:Cities in France]] contains articles whose subjects are cities in France. }}
:[[:Category:Politicians]] therefore is a set category, whose subjects are politicians. That's why I created [[:Category:Politicians' topics]] and the other two, to contain articles relating to Politicians but that are not politicians in the first one, and the relevant ones in the last. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 19:19, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Comment''': In any case, entries related to politicians but which are not politicians (for example Political families of the United State or awards to politicians) would be more fitting to [[:Category:Politics]] than to [Category:Politicians]. Illustrating this, there is [[:Category:Freemasonry]] and [[:Category:Freemasons]]. <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 23:13, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:People of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''no consensus'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 16:51, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|People of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Not really a defining category: What even would the scope of  "People of x conflict" be? It's seems to be very vague [[User:Hemiauchenia|Hemiauchenia]] ([[User talk:Hemiauchenia|talk]]) 18:15, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
* The category is obviously meant for people who are notable especially because of this war. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 19:37, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
:: And how would one define {{tq|notable especially because of this war}}? I mean Netanyahu is definitely a notable participant in this conflict, but is he {{tq|notable especially because}} of it?  [[User:Hemiauchenia|Hemiauchenia]] ([[User talk:Hemiauchenia|talk]]) 23:36, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
::* I don't think he belongs in this category. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:56, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 19:13, 3 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
*'''Delete''' per nom. ([[User talk:Buidhe|t]] &#183; [[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|c]]) '''[[User:buidhe|<span style="color: black">buidhe</span>]]''' 20:22, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Keep'''. It may be a bit early, but we can reasonably expect that some people will get noticeable notoriety specifically linked to this war (not Netanyahu or Blinken or Guterres or Haniyeh or Nasrallah). Especially, hostages tend to get notoriety from hostage taking. As of 4 November, {{oldid2|1182578020|Inbal Rabin-Lieberman}} and {{oldid2|1183327483|Vivian Silver}} at least clearly qualify, as well as the 30 articles already in {{Cl|People killed in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war}}. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 01:50, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Keep'''. We already have a fairly robust parent category ([[:Category:21st-century people by conflict]]), so this category is not unprecedented. Certainly we can argue whether certain people should be included in the category, and we could include a more specific definition on the category page if people think that would be an improvement. [[User:ForsythiaJo|ForsythiaJo]] ([[User talk:ForsythiaJo|talk]]) 03:38, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

*'''Delete''' per nom. [[User:Edward-Woodrow|Edward-Woodrow]] ([[User talk:Edward-Woodrow|talk]]) 15:10, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 21:51, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Museums in Maine by populated place ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:Museums in the United States by populated place]]. There is concern that an established category scheme containing the nominated category is actually unnecessary. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 16:53, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Museums in Maine by populated place}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Per [[WP:SMALLCAT]]. It contains just one category and is unlikely to grow. There are similar categories for other states but many are also exceedingly small and likely to get nominated for deletion as well. [[User:Namiba]] 15:41, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' to [[:Category:Museums in the United States by populated place]]. –[[User:Aidan721|Aidan721]] ([[User talk:Aidan721|talk]]) 19:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
::That is a container category.--[[User:Namiba]] 15:43, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
::* The nominated category is also a container category so that is fine. If not kept, it should be merged indeed. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:04, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* The category is arguably part of a large established tree: [[:Category:Museums in the United States by state or territory and populated place]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 19:40, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
::It may be large but not well-established. A significant number of said categories contain fewer than 3 categories.--[[User:Namiba]] 15:43, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
::* Then it may be helpful to nominate them too. I am not opposing. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:09, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 19:13, 3 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 21:48, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====Category:Pharmacists from the Russian Empire====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 3%23Category:Pharmacists from the Russian Empire]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Indigenous small-numbered peoples of the North, Siberia and the Far East ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''No consensus''' [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 17:29, 25 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Indigenous small-numbered peoples of the North, Siberia and the Far East]] to <s>[[:Category:Indigenous peoples in the Arctic]]</s> [[:Category:Indigenous peoples of Russia]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''merge''', largely overlapping categories. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 12:04, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
::'''Strongly oppose.'''
::This is something different. These are related but distinct subjects.. 
::<u>First</u>: It is a russian ''legal concept'' referred to in Art. 69 of the russsian constitution as well as in a number of russian legal acts and regulations, including the Federal Act on Guarantees of the Rights of Indigenous Small-Numbered Peoples of 1999. So it is ''not'' a loose description as "Indigenous Peoples in the Artic is.
::<u>Second</u>This category includes 44 small indigenous peoples living in certain regions of russia, ''not'' in other countries of the Arctic (not even in other regions of russia);
::<u>Third,</u> Only some of these 44 peoples inhabit the Arctic. The [[Nivkh people]] of [[Sakhalin]] or the [[Shor people]] of Kemerovo oblast are in fact thousands of kilometres south of the Arctic circle.
::When russia finally disintegrates  (which I hope) making russian legislation  obsolete, it will be fine to delete this category, but until that day (may it come soon!!), it needs to be kept.  [[User:Johannes Rohr|Johannes Rohr]] ([[User talk:Johannes Rohr|talk]]) 13:07, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
:::'''Mild support for merge'''  per nom'''.''' I think that this category should be '''listified per''' @[[User:Johannes Rohr|Johannes Rohr]].  [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 04:03, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
::::Merge is clearly not an option, as many of these peoples ''don't live in the Arctic'', in my estimate, most don't. They mostly live in places where it gets quite cold in the Winter, but still, these places are for the most part not in the Arctic rim. [[User:Johannes Rohr|Johannes Rohr]] ([[User talk:Johannes Rohr|talk]]) 16:12, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::Sure it’s an option, if the articles are moved to [[:Category:Indigenous peoples of Russia]] as well as the appropriate subcategories of [[:Category:Indigenous peoples by region]]. &nbsp;—''[[user:Mzajac|Michael]]&nbsp;[[user_talk:Mzajac|Z]].'' 18:10, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::The [[:Category:Indigenous peoples of Russia|Category:Indigenous Peoples of Russia]] is not appropriate, at least in its current state. It contains peoples which could be considered indigenous by international standards but which are are neither considered within russia nor commonly consider themselves indigenous, such as the [[Bashkirs|Bashkir people]] or the [[Udmurts]].  (Self identification may change over time, but for now it just isn't there, the only exception are the [[Crimean Tatars]], whose homeland is currently illegally controlled by russia and who self-identify as an indigenous people of [[Ukraine]].)  Currently I see a growing  self-identification of "[[Captive Nations|captive nations]]" instead.
::::::Second, the "small numbered" peoples are quite distinct from the former group because they have much more "indigenous" ways of life, most markedly year-round nomadism. And this distinction has been made since Tzarist times, it has not been invented by Soviet  bureaucrats.
::::::So if there is agreement, that e.g. the [[Komi peoples|Komi people]], the [[Chuvash people|Chuvash]] or the Bashkirs should be in this category, we definitely need a separate subcategory for the "small-numbered" peoples, because of their very different ways of life, legal status, histories, types of political goals and aspirations and so on.  The easiest is to keep the current categories. [[User:Johannes Rohr|Johannes Rohr]] ([[User talk:Johannes Rohr|talk]]) 08:51, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Is the argument that other articles in the category are about other subjects (“in its current state”)? Or are you saying the articles in this category are not about Indigenous peoples? I don’t quite understand, but I definitely don’t agree with any of that. Maybe try stating it in terms that refer to the guidelines andl/or to reliable sources about the subjects.
:::::::Are you saying the articles in this category are not about Indigenous peoples? &nbsp;—''[[user:Mzajac|Michael]]&nbsp;[[user_talk:Mzajac|Z]].'' 18:02, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Oh boy. I'm the one citing reliable sources here all the time, including Forsyth, Slezkine, Halemba/Donahoe and the Martinez-Cobo study. You have in turn not cited even a single source in support of your proposition.
::::::::The problem with the category: There is no binding definition of "indigenous peoples" (heck, there isn't even a definition of "peoples" in international law). The best we have is the 1981 Martinez-Cobo defintion from the famous [https://social.desa.un.org/publications/martinez-cobo-study study on discrimination on discrimination against indigenous peoples]. Therefore, there cannot be a definitive answer to the question if e.g. the Sakha should be considered indigenous. The most important criterion from the Martinez-Cobo working definion's 4 criteria is their self-identification. And of course, this self-identification may vary widely depending on whom you ask. ''However,''  among the Sakha or Udmurt, a self-identification as indigenous is quite rare, although it does exist. 
::::::::By contrast, there are hard and binding criteria of which groups are considered "indigenous small-numbered peoples of the North, Siberia and the Far East", so that there is no ambiguity here. And again, this isn't just a legal category, but it is a reality in russia at many levels, I reality I have witnessed every day since first working with them in the mid 90s. If the English language Wikipedia is going to delete this category, it is will be deleting part of the russian reality. You may not like it, but it is there.  [[User:Johannes Rohr|Johannes Rohr]] ([[User talk:Johannes Rohr|talk]]) 18:51, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
:::As a point of fact, these peoples do not ''only'' live in Russia. Some of their native territories include Aleutian Islands in USA, China, and Scandinavian states. (This official demographic designation, however, only has validity in Russia.)&nbsp;—''[[user:Mzajac|Michael]]&nbsp;[[user_talk:Mzajac|Z]].'' 15:30, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
::'''Support'''. Indeed this category does represent a Russian Federation official designation, but that list of nations is a political concept of a state, only carries weight in Russia, and membership is not a defining characteristic of the subject nations. The official list itself is already covered and its membership delineated in the list article [[Indigenous small-numbered peoples of the North, Siberia and the Far East]], so we’re not losing any information by merging the contents. &nbsp;—''[[user:Mzajac|Michael]]&nbsp;[[user_talk:Mzajac|Z]].'' 14:58, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
:::Obviously, categorized articles should be merged with appropriate categories, some of which may be Arctic or not Arctic. &nbsp;—''[[user:Mzajac|Michael]]&nbsp;[[user_talk:Mzajac|Z]].'' 15:23, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

:::I agree, that this is a designation that was imposed on them by the state, however, this common designation has shaped their history and continues to shape their present. I've been working with organisations of indigenous peoples of the russian North for decades, and they today defintely regard themselves a common family. A Shor from Kemerovo region, an Itelmen from Kamchatka and a Sámi from Kola Peninsula have to some degree a shared identity causing them i.a. to act together and form common organisations (such as an [https://icipr.international/ indigenous anti-war committee] I word with. Look at their ethnic mix. Their ancestral lands are thousands of kilometres apart from each other. And yet they have common cause.
:::What binds them together, though, is not only that they are subject to the same legislation, but also that they have a common history and today even a common identity, common organisations. This category is the historic successor of not only what used to be called "small peoples of the Soviet North", but even in Tsarist times they were understood to be a distinct category, as we can see in the Speransky reforms, which sought to create institutions especially for them, distinct from other peoples in Russia's Asian colonies, such as the [[Sakha people|Sakha]], [[Buryats|Buryat]] or [[Tuvans]]. 
:::There is quite a body of literature on their common history, with [[Yuri Slezkine|Yuri Slezkines]] "[https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9780801481789/arctic-mirrors/#bookTabs=1 Arctic Mirror. Russia and the Small Peoples of the North]" and James Forsyth's "''[https://www.amazon.de/-/en/James-Forsyth/dp/0521477719 History of the Peoples of Siberia. Russia's North Eastern Colony]'' being among the more prominent ones. Especially Slezkine puts quite some effort into showing how they have been regarded and treated by russia as a distict category for centuries. So, deleting this would be myopic and ahistorical.  [[User:Johannes Rohr|Johannes Rohr]] ([[User talk:Johannes Rohr|talk]]) 15:56, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
::::I don’t see evidence that the membership in that organization or the subjects of those works precisely correspond to the membership of this official list, currently or at some period on the past. [[:Category:Indigenous peoples of Russia]] is certainly an encyclopedic grouping, and we can also consider cross groupings by region, but this list is not that. &nbsp;—''[[user:Mzajac|Michael]]&nbsp;[[user_talk:Mzajac|Z]].'' 18:06, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::What do you mean "I don't see evidence"? Where have you looked and failed to find the expected evidence? You have to invest more that 60 seconds. Since I know every single member the committee personally, some of them I have known for 30 years, I could give you a bio of each of them and explain to you how belonging to this category of peoples shaped their biographies. Both the now government controlled umbrella organisation [[Russian Association of Indigenous Peoples of the North|RAIPON]] as well as independent networks such as ''Aborigen Forum'', the [https://batani.org Batani Foundation] or [http://www.csipn.ru CSIPN] include exclusively members who either are included in this category or seek inclusion (the latter being the [[Izvatas]] or Izhma Komi). Indigenous activists belonging to Nenets people will typically belong to the same networks as, say Nivkh, Even, Khanty, Shor or Teleut activists, but they will have zero if any communality with, say Sakha, Kalmyk, Buryat or Komi activists, even though the latter would also be considered indigenous by international standards.  In fact, such contacts are starting only now, where russia's disintegration becomes a more concrete possibility and there is a need to develop joint strategies for a post-russia future. But up to very recently, most of my peers from indigenous peoples in russia had very little contact, the though that the Komi, Sakha or Buryat could also be considered indigenous didn't even cross their minds..
:::::And again, separating the "small numbered" peoples from all the other nations inhabiting the russian North, Siberia and the Far East isn't something that has been invented by the Soviet Union, it has centuries of tradition, one reason being that those "small numbered" peoples pursue indeed  much more "indigenous" subsistence strategies, such as year-round reindeer nomadism. This is something extremely rare among other peoples of the russian arctic but quite common among the small numbered indigenous peoples, two thirds of which depend on subsistence activities such as fishing, hunting and reindeer husbandry for their survival. So, size has for centuries served as a proxy for "indigeneity" in russia. See Donahoe, Brian, et al. "Size and Place in the Construction of Indigeneity in the Russian Federation." ''Current anthropology'' 49.6 (2008): 993-1020 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/593014.  [[User:Johannes Rohr|Johannes Rohr]] ([[User talk:Johannes Rohr|talk]]) 23:26, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::[[:Category:Indigenous peoples seeking inclusion on the Unified List of Indigenous Minority Peoples of the North, Siberia, and the Far East of Russia]] is not a defining characteristic either. &nbsp;—''[[user:Mzajac|Michael]]&nbsp;[[user_talk:Mzajac|Z]].'' 23:51, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::* If size has for centuries served as a proxy for "indigeneity", then "small-numbered" is redundant and [[:Category:Indigenous peoples of Russia]] suffices. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 08:09, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::*:It does not, because this would be mixing peoples who do ''not'' commonly self-identify nor are considered indigenous such as the Bashkirs or Udmurts with others who unambiguously do. There is a problem caused by the conflicting concepts of indigenousness within and outside russia. Again, for that I would refer you to the Article above by Halemba/Donahoe and to [[Yuri Slezkine]]'s "Arctic Mirrors". This is an issue on which much ink has been spilled and which does not fit into neat boxes. The current categorisation is not ideal, but it is far better than the alternative.  [[User:Johannes Rohr|Johannes Rohr]] ([[User talk:Johannes Rohr|talk]]) 08:58, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::*::Neither [[Bashkirs]] nor [[Udmurts]] are in this list nor in this category. You have not clearly explained what they have to do with this. If your point is that they do not belong in some category, that is not for this discussion. &nbsp;—''[[user:Mzajac|Michael]]&nbsp;[[user_talk:Mzajac|Z]].'' 18:07, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::*:::"Udmurt people", "Bashkir people", "Chuvash people", "Kalmyk peopes" are all subcategories of [[:Category:Indigenous peoples of Russia]], and there may be arguments for or against considering them as such. That's not my area of expertise and I don't have a fixed opinion on that. 
::::::*:::However, try to propose the deletion of [[:ru:Категория:Коренные народы Севера]] and you will get only disbelief, because this is such a deeply entrenched concept which, again, is far more than a legal status, it is something that shapes identities, institutions, networks. I'm sorry for having to be blunt, but this proposal can only come from someone who really isn't familiar with the subject matter. [[User:Johannes Rohr|Johannes Rohr]] ([[User talk:Johannes Rohr|talk]]) 19:03, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Michael, with all due respect: Have you ''ever'' had ''any'' interaction with indigenous peoples from russia? If you had, you would know how defining this distinction is. The [[Izhma Komi|Izhma komi]] have for decades participated in the movement for indigenous rights, while the rest of the Komi people have not. The Izhma komi are reindeer herders, much like the neighbouring Tundra [[Nenets people|Nenets]]. That's what shapes their indigenous identity and that's why they consider themselves indigenous and of the mainstream Komi very few people do.
:::::::Again, this issue does not lend itself to an easy solution, and I admit that the current categorization has its problems. Still, it reflects long established russian realities, like it or not. [[User:Johannes Rohr|Johannes Rohr]] ([[User talk:Johannes Rohr|talk]]) 09:04, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::::With all due respect, you have not made any clear arguments relating to the guidelines nor based on clear statements in reliable sources. With respect, bragging about your personal experience doesn’t carry water or contribute to the discussion. &nbsp;—''[[user:Mzajac|Michael]]&nbsp;[[user_talk:Mzajac|Z]].'' 18:08, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::You seem to have completely ignored the references I provided. Again, [[Yuri Slezkine]]'s "Artic Mirrors" alone shows in detail, how since the 16th century Muskovy and later Imperial Russia always treated the "smail numbered" indigenous peoples as a separate category. If you just ignore what historians and anthropologists have to say about this issue, there is little more I can do.  [[User:Johannes Rohr|Johannes Rohr]] ([[User talk:Johannes Rohr|talk]]) 19:06, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::Slezkine says that although the exact composition of his subject peoples has changed over history, what defines the group is they are non-settled hunter-gatherer peoples. Perhaps they all belong in the category [[:Category:Hunter-gatherers of the Arctic]]. Perhaps there is even a category to be added for [[:Category:Hunter-gatherers of the Russian Arctic]] or [[:Category:Hunter-gatherers of the Eurasian Arctic]]. This would have the advantage of being based on defining characteristics and not on a list created and maintained by Soviet and Russian political authorities. Perhaps it would even include the peoples that aspire to be added to the list, which you mentioned. &nbsp;—''[[user:Mzajac|Michael]]&nbsp;[[user_talk:Mzajac|Z]].'' 23:09, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:ClydeFranklin|<span style="color: darkgreen">Clyde</span>]] <sub>[[User talk:ClydeFranklin|<span style="color: darkgreen">&#91;trout needed&#93;</span>]]</sub> 20:42, 3 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
*'''Keep''' per the sources cited by Johannes Rohr, seems to be reasonably defining and less subjective than the alternative. I'm not a fan of the Russian government either but I believe that the wiki should not disregard the effects of legislation of some countries just because we don't like them. ([[User talk:Buidhe|t]] &#183; [[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|c]]) '''[[User:buidhe|<span style="color: black">buidhe</span>]]''' 21:25, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge and listify'''. On one hand we sort {{Cl|Indigenous peoples}} by geography, e.g. {{Cl|Indigenous peoples of Russia}}. On the other hand, there is a specific status in the Russian Federation and its predecessors, and article [[Indigenous small-numbered peoples of the North, Siberia and the Far East]] is the best way to cover that. [[WP:CLNT]] is worth reading in this case. The list of peoples awarded this status in Russia does not change very often, and a category is, unfortunately, prone to wrong additions, removals and omissions. The topic article is better here. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 00:21, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 21:45, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====Category:Baltic Finnic people====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 19%23Category:Baltic Finnic people]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Canadian expatriate film directors in the United States ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:Canadian expatriates in the United States]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:Edward-Woodrow|Edward-Woodrow]] ([[User talk:Edward-Woodrow|talk]]) 00:10, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Canadian expatriate film directors in the United States]] to [[:Category:Canadian expatriates in the United States]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Trivial intersection. [[User:Namiba]] 20:57, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
::'''Support''', but also upmerge to [[:Category:Canadian film directors|Canadian film directors]] [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 21:33, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
:::They're already in the appropriate Canadian film director sub-categories.--[[User:Namiba]] 21:39, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
::::Excellent! [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 22:04, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge''' per nom. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 23:47, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* <s>'''Oppose'''</s> until there is more clarity on why this occupation and this nationality has been nominated on its own. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:50, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
::As mentioned in the nomination, I find this to be a trivial intersection of nationality, occupation, and location.--[[User:Namiba]] 12:43, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 21:41, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* {{ping|Namiba}} you did not address my objection. Why would Canadian be trivial and Vietnamese not? [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:45, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
::I didn't say anything about the Vietnamese category one way or another. Feel free to nominate that for deletion as well.--[[User:Namiba]] 15:31, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
::* I am withdrawing my oppose as I note the others have a different format, e.g. [[:Category:American film directors of Vietnamese descent]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:47, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Emus ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''no consensus'''. After two relists, the proposal hasn't gained any traction, although I wouldn't quite call it a consensus in opposition. <sub>signed, </sub>[[User:Rosguill|'''''Rosguill''''']] <sup>[[User talk:Rosguill|''talk'']]</sup> 22:48, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Emus]] to [[:Category:Emu]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Topic category for a single species. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 04:28, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Comment''': I'm not convinced that the number of species represented is relevant.  There are multiple subspecies listed, as well as other emu-related topics.  Similar categories are also plural: category:chickens (all one species), or category:elephants (two or three species), for example.  And this mirrors common usage in English: we would ordinarily say "I want to know about emus", not "I want to know about emu".  One might say, "I want to know about ''the'' emu", but that's less common than the first formulation—and we wouldn't have "category:the emu".  Presumably this category includes all emus—whether individually or collectively—not one emu, not a substance (such as meat) called "emu" (although that would probably also fit if there were such an article).  So it makes more sense at this title than at the proposed one.  [[User:P Aculeius|P Aculeius]] ([[User talk:P Aculeius|talk]]) 04:41, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' FWIW, both emu and emus are valid plurals. And "I want to know about emu." is an acceptable sentence. [[User:Grutness|Grutness]]...''<small>[[User_talk:Grutness|<span style="color: #008822;">wha?</span>]]</small>'' 02:03, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
:::I checked our entry on Wiktionary, and it only provided "emus" as the plural.  However, granted that bird names can often be either singular or plural, this usage may also be acceptable.  Even so, "I want to know about emu" would be confusing, since it could be understood to refer to a singular thing, or a substance, such as emu meat.  For this reason, the current title is still better, since it unambiguously shows that the topic is plural—it refers to all emus collectively, and can contain any number of articles or subcategories related to emus.  [[User:P Aculeius|P Aculeius]] ([[User talk:P Aculeius|talk]]) 00:09, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 19:52, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
*[[User:Grutness|Grutness]] may well be right, but who knows that in the Northern Hemisphere? [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 04:22, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Fictional humans ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''No consensus''' Sorry, this discussion has gone in too many different directions, with too many overlapping proposals, to come to an actionable consensus. No prejudice against more focused renominations. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 16:23, 24 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top --> 
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional humans]] to [[:Category:Fictional human characters]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional characters by ethnicity or nationality]] to [[:Category:Fictional human characters by ethnicity or nationality]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional people by country subdivision]] to [[:Category:Fictional human characters by country subdivision]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional people by populated place]] to [[:Category:Fictional human characters by populated place]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional people by continent]] to [[:Category:Fictional human characters by continent]] ''added 26 October''
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional people by region]] to [[:Category:Fictional human characters by region]] ''added 26 October''
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional people by ethnicity]] to [[:Category:Fictional characters by ethnicity]] (''added 21 November'')
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional people by nationality]] to [[:Category:Fictional characters by nationality]] (''added 21 November'')
:* '''Propose keeping''' [[:Category:Animated human characters]]
:* '''Propose keeping'''  [[:Category:Fictional human races]]
:'''Nominator's rationale: rename''', better alignment of category names in this tree. If this agreed, the subcategories can follow later (speedily?). [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 11:08, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
::'''Keep''' Nearly every other subcategory of [[:Category:Fictional characters by species]] uses the current convention. Nor is it helpful to narrow down the geographic and demographic categories to humans only, when many non-human characters have a well-defined ethnicity or real-world place of origin. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 18:39, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
:::'''Agree''' with LaundryPizza03. There's a lot of non-human characters who have a real-life ethnicity/nationality or come from a real-world geographic location. I think instead we should make a new super-category called [[:Category:Fictional characters by location]]. [[User:AHI-3000|AHI-3000]] ([[User talk:AHI-3000|talk]]) 22:00, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
::::'''EDIT:''' I just created [[:Category:Fictional characters by location]]. I think this new category is a better place to contain these subcategories. [[User:AHI-3000|AHI-3000]] ([[User talk:AHI-3000|talk]]) 01:38, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
* '''Rename''' per nom. We have long-standing convention of categorizing ''characters'' in the realm of fiction, and ''people'' in non-fiction. There is a recent surge in imho poorly-designed ''Fictional people...'' categories. People are made of flesh and blood, characters are not. Harry Potter is a character, not a person. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 23:13, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* I added two more sibling categories to the nomination. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:59, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 19:53, 2 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* {{ping|LaundryPizza03}} almost none of the nominated categories follows "characters", in fact I am introducing "characters" by this nomination. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 21:57, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
*:Right, and I am arguing that would be inconsistent with non-human species such as [[:Category:Fictional cattle]] and [[:Category:Fictional demons and devils]]. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 02:04, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - [[:Category:Fictional humans]] and [[:Category:Animated human characters]]. These are essentially [[Wikipedia:Overcategorization#Miscellaneous categories]]. '''Oppose''' renaming the rest for similar reasons. If no consensus to delete, then  use "people" instead of "humans". "Fictional characters" being a broader term/inclusion criteria. - <b>[[User:Jc37|jc37]]</b> 15:12, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
:* {{ping|Jc37}} I am not sure why you propose deletion of [[:Category:Fictional humans]]. The consequence of deletion of the parent category is that e.g. [[:Category:Fictional people by country subdivision]] and [[:Category:Fictional people by populated place]] will no longer be siblings. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 22:44, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
*:: Easy enough to upmerge those to [[:Category:Fictional characters by location]] (which itself could be renamed to "people", if wanted).- <b>[[User:Jc37|jc37]]</b> 23:20, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
*:::Yes I agree with jc37, that is what I was thinking.  [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 04:17, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

* '''Alt proposal'''
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional humans]] to [[:Category:Fictional people]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional characters by ethnicity or nationality]] to [[:Category:Fictional people by ethnicity or nationality]]
:* '''Propose keeping''' [[:Category:Fictional people by country subdivision]]
:* '''Propose keeping''' [[:Category:Fictional people by populated place]]
:* '''Propose keeping''' [[:Category:Fictional people by continent]]
:* '''Propose keeping''' [[:Category:Fictional people by region]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Animated human characters]] to [[:Category:Animated fictional people]]
:* '''Propose keeping'''  [[:Category:Fictional human races]]
* {{ping|LaundryPizza03|AHI-3000|Place Clichy}} the above alternative is what I think has the most support (but not Place Clichy's) and is internally consistent. I am mostly in favour of consistency here, the exact format comes second. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 22:57, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
*::I could weakly support most of that, but [[:Category:Animated human characters]] should really be deleted, or at least upmerged/diffused into [[:Category:Animated characters]]. - <b>[[User:Jc37|jc37]]</b> 23:20, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
*:'''Keep all pages, don't rename anything'''. I just want this over with already. [[User:AHI-3000|AHI-3000]] ([[User talk:AHI-3000|talk]]) 00:08, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
*:'''Support''' I guess this is okay. The "humans" category names can be kept as redirects. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 04:35, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 19:43, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* '''Delete''' [[:Category:Fictional humans]] and [[:Category:Animated human characters]] per [[WP:NONDEF]]. Usually, if a character is human, that's not defining, as it is to be expected. '''Upmerge''' [[:Category:Fictional human races]] to [[:Category:Fictional species and races]] as it appears to be an [[WP:ARBITRARYCAT]]. It contains such thing as "muggle", which are just regular humans. Upmerge [[:Category:Fictional characters by ethnicity or nationality]] to [[:Category:Fictional characters by attribute]] as [[WP:OVERLAPCAT]]. The other stuff seems fine to '''Keep''' for now, though this is a bit of a trainwreck due to how different the categories are. [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 20:07, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

* '''Alt 2 proposal'''
:* '''Propose keeping''' [[:Category:Fictional humans]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional people by ethnicity]] to [[:Category:Fictional characters by ethnicity]] (''added 21 November'')
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional people by nationality]] to [[:Category:Fictional characters by nationality]] (''added 21 November'')
:* '''Propose splitting''' [[:Category:Fictional characters by ethnicity or nationality]] between the 2 above categories, per decision at {{section link|WP:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 7|Category:People by ethnicity or nationality}}
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional people by country subdivision]] to [[:Category:Fictional characters by country subdivision]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional people by populated place]] to [[:Category:Fictional characters by populated place]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional people by continent]] to [[:Category:Fictional characters by continent]] ''added 26 October''
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional people by region]] to [[:Category:Fictional characters by region]] ''added 26 October''
:* '''Propose keeping''' [[:Category:Animated human characters]]
:* '''Propose keeping'''  [[:Category:Fictional human races]]
: '''Alt 2 rationale:''' fictional characters are presumed to be human unless it is necessary to precise otherwise (see e.g. the long-standing category structure at {{Cl|Fictional characters by attribute}} and its many child categories including {{Cl|Fictional characters by behavior|by behavior}}, {{Cl|Fictional characters by occupation|by occupation}}, {{Cl|Fictional characters by rank or title|by rank or title}}, {{Cl|Fictional characters based on real people|based on real people}} etc. Also, they are fictional ''characters'', not ''people'', because people are made of flesh and blood and characters are not, and there is always a possible plot twist where a character you think is human turns out to be something else. Harry Potter is a character, not a person. This is an attempt to summarize consensus and avoid a train wreck, hence keeping as is some categories for now, maybe deferring them to a later more specific discussion.
: {{Re|Marcocapelle|LaundryPizza03|AHI-3000|Qwerfjkl|Jc37|Zxcvbnm}} ping participants for opinion. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 12:17, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
::'''Support''' this proposal. It's a logical renaming without causing too much disruption. [[User:AHI-3000|AHI-3000]] ([[User talk:AHI-3000|talk]]) 17:48, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
::BTW shouldn't this discussion be relisted? [[User:AHI-3000|AHI-3000]] ([[User talk:AHI-3000|talk]]) 17:52, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
* (as nom) this alternative leads to more consistency too, ultimately I am in favor of all alternatives over the status quo. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 19:59, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Kartikeya_temples ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''No consensus''' [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 04:16, 21 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
* '''Proposed renaming''' [[:Category:Murugan temples in Tamil Nadu]] to [[:Category:Kartikeya temples in Tamil Nadu]]
* '''Proposed renaming''' [[:Category:Murugan temples in Karnataka]] to [[:Category:Kartikeya temples in Karnataka]]
* '''Proposed renaming''' [[:Category:Murugan temples in Kerala]] to [[:Category:Kartikeya temples in Kerala]]
* '''Proposed renaming''' [[:Category:Murugan temples in Sri Lanka]] to [[:Category:Kartikeya temples in Sri Lanka]]
* [[WP:CONSISTENCY]] with parent cat [[:Category:Kartikeya temples]] and article [[Kartikeya]]--[[User:Redtigerxyz|<span style="color: red;">Redtigerxyz</span>]] <sup> [[User talk:Redtigerxyz|Talk]] </sup> 05:45, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
* '''Inclined to oppose''', based on the articles in these categories it seems that the name "Murugan" is mostly used in Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka while "Subrahmanya" is mostly used in Karnataka and Kerala. I would support a rename to "Subrahmanya" for the latter two.  [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 08:13, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
: [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]], Hindu deities are known by different names in different regional languages. The prominient name in the language can be used in that language wikipedia; for example Tamil (Tamil Nadu) wikipedia calls him Murugan; Malayalam (Kerala) and Kannada (Karnataka) calls him Subrahmanya; however the articles should be consistent. Also in Sri Lanka, should we use Kandaswamy or Murugan, both names are popular names. If we go by the logic proposed above, [[:Category:Shiva temples in Kerala]] needs to be renamed Mahadeva temples in Kerala; [[:Category:Shiva temples in Maharashtra]] needs to be renamed Shankara temples in Maharashtra; [[:Category:Shiva temples in West Bengal]] to Category:Shiba temples in West Bengal; which are the prominent names of the deity in the region; however that will just add confusion to a non-expert reader. --[[User:Redtigerxyz|<span style="color: red;">Redtigerxyz</span>]] <sup> [[User talk:Redtigerxyz|Talk]] </sup> 09:43, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
:* Fair enough to rename them too. There is more confusion when Wikipedia uses a name in a region when in real life that name is not used in that region. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 09:54, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 19:56, 2 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
:: [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]], Kartikeya is a pan-Indian name, he is known as this name in Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Kerala and Sri Lanka; however Murugan is the primary name in Tamil language (Tamil Nadu, Lanka) and Subrahmanya the primary name in Kerala, Karnataka; Kartik in Bengal, Odisha, Tripura (East India).--[[User:Redtigerxyz|<span style="color: red;">Redtigerxyz</span>]] <sup> [[User talk:Redtigerxyz|Talk]] </sup> 06:10, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
:* {{ping|Redtigerxyz}} yes that was my understanding too, i.e. the name Kartikeya is not the primary name in these regions. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:21, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 19:40, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Aden emigrants to the United Kingdom ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''Delete''' Place Clichy's argument about lack of definingless has gone unrefuted. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 04:11, 21 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Aden emigrants to England]] to [[:Category:Yemeni emigrants to England]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Aden emigrants to Scotland]] to [[:Category:Yemeni emigrants to Scotland]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Aden emigrants to the United Kingdom]] to [[:Category:Yemeni emigrants to the United Kingdom]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Upmerge. Aden is a city in yemen [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 17:21, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* <s>'''Merge'''</s>, no need to diffuse emigrants by populated place. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 18:41, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge all 3 to [[:Category:Yemeni emigrants to the United Kingdom]]'''. England and Scotland are also irrelevant for the migration status of these 21st-century British people. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 22:58, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
:* <s>Support merge all 3 as well.</s> [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:54, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. When these people emigrated, [[Aden Colony|Aden was a separate colony]] of the British Empire and not part of the wider area of Yemen (not that Yemen existed as a country at that time). Comments like "Aden is a city in yemen" and "no need to diffuse emigrants by populated place" therefore show a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 10:16, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*: The category is part of [[:Category:People from Aden]], the city. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:38, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*: "{{tq|When these people emigrated, [[Aden Colony|Aden was a separate colony]]...}}" That's just not true. That article says: "{{tq|'''[[Aden Colony]]''' [...] was a [[Crown Colony]] of the [[United Kingdom]] from 1937 to 1963. On 18 January 1963, Aden Colony was reconstituted as the [[State of Aden]] [...] within the new [[Federation of South Arabia]].}}" For people whose article mentions a physical move to the UK, it is 1965 ({{oldid2|1180029459|Keith Vaz}}), 1966 or 1967 ({{oldid2|1173191920|Rizwan Khan}}), 1969 or 1970 ({{oldid2|1168022259|Claude Moraes}}). Their background is actually described as respectively Goan, Punjabi-Pakistani-Gujarati, and Indian. The fourth article, that of {{oldid2|1179358960|Anna Grear}}, presents her as just ''British'' and makes no mention whatsoever of an Aden or Yemeni identity besides the POB. So I very well understand, thank you, that ''Aden emigrant'' is [[WP:NONDEFINING|not a defining characteristic]] for any of these people, and rather trivial. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 23:23, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*:* '''Delete all''' per Place Clichy. If kept, rename to State of Aden, reparent and purge. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:19, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 20:00, 2 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 19:36, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Paintings by Henri Biva ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> <b style="font-family:Courier New;">[[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|<span style="color:#7D066B;">Blaster</span>]]</b><sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 20:20, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Paintings by Henri Biva]] to [[:Category:Henri Biva]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Overcategorized. Only two pages in the parent category [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 04:51, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* Per [[WP:OCEPON]], the convention is that we keep this category and delete the parent category. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:10, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
*:Gotcha, I think my nom might have been unclear because the painting category only has one page and the parent category only has one additional page, for a total of two pages between the two categories. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 14:09, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 20:04, 2 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* I have tagged [[:Category:Henri Biva]] for deletion per [[WP:OCEPON]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 10:53, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 19:20, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* '''Delete''' both. There isn't enough content here to warrant either category. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 02:24, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' both. The two articles are already linked together and neither category aids navigation. --[[User:Trialpears|Trialpears]] ([[User talk:Trialpears|talk]]) 17:48, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:English expatriates in Taormina, Sicily ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:English expatriates in Italy]] and [[:Category:People from Taormina]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:16, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:English expatriates in Taormina, Sicily]] to [[:Category:English expatriates in Italy]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' not defining [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 03:34, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* '''Dual merge''', also to [[:Category:People from Taormina]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:16, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' per nom. Do not merge to [[:Category:People from Taormina]]; these people may have lived in Taormina, but they didn't come from there. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 10:22, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
:* We don't exclusively use "people from" categories for people who were born there. They lived long enough in Taormina in order for them to be a defining characteristic. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:30, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
::*Generally we do try to. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 16:01, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 20:04, 2 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' Merge target(s)?<br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 19:19, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
*'''Keep''' As some of the articles explain, there was a distinct, mostly gay, "colony" of Brits there around 100 years ago. Defining enough. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 04:20, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
* I voted dual merge before. Keeping would be my second choice, rather than a single merge and moving the articles away from Taormina. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====Category:Foul-smelling chemicals====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 29%23Category:Foul-smelling chemicals]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

====Category:AstraZeneca brands====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 19%23Category:AstraZeneca brands]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Fictional hybrid martial artists ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''witgdrawn'''<!-- Template:Cfd top --> <small>([[Wikipedia:Non-admin closure|non-admin closure]])</small> [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:52, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Fictional hybrid martial artists]] to [[:Category:Fictional martial artists by type]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''merge''', by lack of a real people equivalent. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 18:29, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' There does seem to be a "real equivalent", [[:Category:Hybrid martial arts]]. It seems like a "legit" category to me. [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 18:43, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:* There is at least not a [[:Category:Hybrid martial artists]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 18:48, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:*:That's because they're split by combat style, such as [[:Category:Jeet Kune Do practitioners]]. Most of the ones in [[:Category:Fictional hybrid martial artists]] are as well.
:*:You may wish to argue that the type of martial art is irrelevant, and that every single subcategory should be merged into [[:Category:Fictional martial artists]]. But, I cannot see a particular reason to support merging based on this particular rationale. That's because based on the current categorization scheme, [[:Category:Hybrid martial artists]] could certainly exist.  [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 18:53, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* Nomination '''withdrawn'''. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:52, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Azawad templates ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''dual merge''' to [[:Category:Mali templates]] and [[:Category:Africa history templates]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 00:02, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Azawad templates]] to [[:Category:Mali templates]] and [[:Category:Africa history templates]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''merge''', as the subcategory is going to be merged/deleted, there is only one template left here. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 18:13, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::'''Support''' per nom. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 04:00, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Fictional practitioners of martial arts weapons ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:Fictional martial artists by type]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 00:01, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Fictional practitioners of martial arts weapons]] to [[:Category:Fictional martial artists by type]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''merge''', redundant category layer with only two subcategories. There is also no real people equivalent. I am not sure of the target, i.e. not sure if these are "types". If not, merge directly to [[:Category:Fictional martial artists]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:41, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Support''' This is totally redundant and pointless. [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 18:57, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*:'''support''' per nom. I think it can be upmerged to [[:Category:Fictional martial artists]] [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 22:24, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Without a category for fictional users of weapons, I guess this is fine. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 18:42, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Taxa named by Paul Graham Wilson ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''reverse merge'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:Edward-Woodrow|Edward-Woodrow]] ([[User talk:Edward-Woodrow|talk]]) 14:11, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Taxa named by Paul Graham Wilson}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' This is a duplicate of Category:Taxa named by Paul G. Wilson <span style="padding:2px;font-family:Arial;background:yellow;border:solid 1px #aa0000;border-radius:3px;">&nbsp;[[User:Junglenut|Junglenut]]&nbsp;&#124;[[User talk:Junglenut |Talk]]</span>&nbsp; 01:17, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
::'''Reverse merge''' from [[:Category:Taxa named by Paul G. Wilson]]. The main article is titled [[Paul Graham Wilson]]. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 02:00, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
:::'''support reverse merge''' per LaundryPizza [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 02:32, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
:::Yes, thats a better idea <span style="padding:2px;font-family:Arial;background:yellow;border:solid 1px #aa0000;border-radius:3px;">&nbsp;[[User:Junglenut|Junglenut]]&nbsp;&#124;[[User talk:Junglenut |Talk]]</span>&nbsp; 21:01, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' This category has been emptied. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 04:36, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' I have tagged [[:Category:Taxa named by Paul G. Wilson]] to allow for a reverse merge.<br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 17:37, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
:'''Reverse Merge''' - well, obviously we can't have duplicate categories, so we must merge either forwards or reverse. The reverse one seems better to me as to the editors above. [[User:Chiswick Chap|Chiswick Chap]] ([[User talk:Chiswick Chap|talk]]) 19:45, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::'''Support reverse merge''' - it makes sense to align the names of the category and the main article. <span style="padding:2px;font-family:Arial;background:yellow;border:solid 1px #aa0000;border-radius:3px;">&nbsp;[[User:Junglenut|Junglenut]]&nbsp;&#124;[[User talk:Junglenut |Talk]]</span>&nbsp; 21:30, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Fictional people by descent ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename/delete/merge'''. There is a lot going on here. Broadly, there is consensus to '''rename''' {{tq|Category:Fictional Fooian-Barian people}} to {{tq|Category:Fictional Fooian characters of Barian descent}}, '''delete''':
*[[:Category:Fictional African-Canadian people]]
*[[:Category:Fictional Chinese Canadian people]]
*[[:Category:Fictional Indian-Canadian people]]
*[[:Category:Fictional Korean-Canadian people]]
*[[:Category:Fictional Vietnamese-Canadian people]]
*[[:Category:Fictional British Canadian people]]
*[[:Category:Fictional French-Canadian people]]
*[[:Category:Fictional European-Canadian people]]
... and '''merge''' [[:Category:Fictional Middle Eastern American people]] to the renamed [[:Category:Fictional American characters of Asian descent]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> <b style="font-family:Courier New;">[[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|<span style="color:#7D066B;">Blaster</span>]]</b><sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 20:44, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional people by ethnic or national origin]] by [[:Category:Fictional people by descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional American people by ethnic or national origin]] by [[:Category:Fictional American people by descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Asian-American people]] by [[:Category:Fictional American people of Asian descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Chinese American people]] by [[:Category:Fictional American people of Chinese descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Chinese-American superheroes]] to [[:Category:American superheroes of Chinese descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Indian-American people]] by [[:Category:Fictional American people of Indian descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Japanese American people]] by [[:Category:Fictional American people of Japanese descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Japanese-American superheroes]] by [[:Category:American superheroes of Japanese descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Korean American people]] by [[:Category:Fictional American people of Korean descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Middle Eastern American people]] to [[:Category:Fictional American people by Middle Eastern descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Arab-American people]] of [[:Category:Fictional American people of Arab descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Iranian-American people]] to [[:Category:Fictional American people of Iranian descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Pakistani American people]] to [[:Category:Fictional American people of Pakistani descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Thai American people]] to [[:Category:Fictional American people of Thai descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Vietnamese-American people]] to [[:Category:Fictional American people of Vietnamese descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Chilean-American people]] to [[:Category:Fictional American people of Chilean descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Cuban-American people]] to [[:Category:Fictional American people of Cuban descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Dominican American people]] to [[:Category:Fictional American people of Dominican descent ]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Mexican-American people]] to [[:Category:Fictional American people of Mexican descent ]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Australian people by ethnic or national origin]] to [[:Category:Fictional Australian people by descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Indian-Australian people]] to [[:Category:Fictional Australian people of Indian descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional British people by ethnic or national origin]] by [[:Category:Fictional British people by descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional English people by ethnic or national origin]] to [[:Category:Fictional English people by descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional British Asian people]] to [[:Category:Fictional British people of Asian descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Indian-British people]] to [[:Category:Fictional British people of Indian descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional British Pakistani people]] to [[:Category:Fictional British people of Pakistani descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Canadian people by ethnic or national origin]] to [[:Category:Fictional Canadian people by descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional African-Canadian people]] to [[:Category:Fictional Canadian people of African descent ]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Asian-Canadian people]] to [[:Category:Fictional Canadian people of Asian descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Chinese Canadian people]] to [[:Category:Fictional Canadian people of Chinese descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Indian-Canadian people]] to [[:Category:Fictional Canadian people of Indian descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Korean-Canadian people]] to [[:Category:Fictional Canadian people of Korean descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional Vietnamese-Canadian people]] to [[:Category:Fictional Canadian people of Vietnamese descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional European-Canadian people]] to [[:Category:Fictional Canadian people of European descent]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional British Canadian people]] to [[:Category:Fictional Canadian people of British descent]]
:'''Nominator's rationale: rename''' per [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_October_21#Fictional_European-American_people|precedent]] and per parent categories like [[:Category:American people of Chinese descent]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 21:25, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Support in principle''' but I would prefer to use ''characters'' instead of ''people'', per parent {{Cl|Fictional characters}} etc. E. g. Harry Potter is a character, not a person. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 02:47, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
:* Yeah but elsewhere we have a discussion about that that looks pretty stale. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 08:24, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
:*: Stale discussions elsewhere are not a reason to stall on a small local improvement. {{smiley}} [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 09:59, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
:*There were two related categories that were separately discussed at [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 29#Category:Fictional Scottish_people by ethnic or national origin]]. Could they be included in this rename proposal? No action has been taken on them yet. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 19:34, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
::* No, the proposed action and rationale for those two is entirely different. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 18:40, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 16:47, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
::'''Support in principle,''' but I also think that characters is a better term than people per Place Clichy [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 22:26, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Support''' In absence of agreement over the use of ''people'' vs. ''characters'', we can care less what happens afterward. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 20:09, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Suggest deleting''' several categories that are not useful for navigation:
** '''Merge''' [[:Category:Fictional Middle Eastern American people]] to [[:Category:Fictional Asian-American people]] (or [[:Category:Fictional American people of Asian descent]]), useless layer for just [[:Category:Fictional Arab-American people]] and [[: Category:Fictional Iranian-American people]]
** '''Delete''' [[:Category:Fictional African-Canadian people]]. Sole content is two redirects ([[Tyler Nguyen-Baker]], [[Aaron Z. (Turning Red)]]) and the target article does not say anything about them being African of [[Black Canadians]].
** '''Delete''' [[:Category:Fictional Chinese Canadian people]]: only redirects to animated series animal characters whose article does not say anything about ethnicity. (My wild guess is that the creator of these redirects associates the voice actor playing the animal part with racial stereotypes.)
** '''Delete''' [[:Category:Fictional Indian-Canadian people]]. Just a redirect ([[Priya Mangal]]) for the same animated series as above.
** '''Delete''' [[:Category:Fictional Korean-Canadian people]]. Two redirects ([[Abby Park]], [[Tae Young (Turning Red)]]) to the same animated series as above.
** '''Delete''' [[:Category:Fictional Vietnamese-Canadian people]]. One redirect ([[Tyler Nguyen-Baker]]) to the same animated series as above.
** '''Delete''' [[:Category:Fictional British Canadian people]]. One redirect ([[Stacy Frick]]) for to same animated series as above.
** '''Delete''' [[:Category:Fictional French-Canadian people]]. One redirect ([[Robaire (Turning Red)]]) for the same animated series as above. Tag added today.
** '''Delete''' [[:Category:Fictional European-Canadian people]] as useless intermediate layer for just [[:Category:Fictional British Canadian people]] and [[:Category:Fictional French-Canadian people]].
* {{Re|Marcocapelle|Liz|Smasongarrison|LaundryPizza03}} ping for opinion. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 15:16, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
*:'''Support''' deletes/merge per place clichy [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 19:12, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
*:'''Delete''' as proposed by Place Clichy. My previous !vote still stands on the remainder. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 00:31, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
* (as nom) '''delete''' the categories as proposed by Place Clichy. When starting the nomination I was hesitant to include both rename and delete proposals (with the risk of a trainwreck) but if there is consensus for it, then by all means. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:09, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:People of the District of Columbia in the American Civil War ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:People of Washington, D.C., in the American Civil War]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:18, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:People of the District of Columbia in the American Civil War]] to [[:Category:People of Washington, D.C., in the American Civil War]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' overlapping category. it's unclear to me how these are different [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 16:02, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Support''' per nom. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:55, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Expatriates from the British Empire ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''No consensus''' [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 02:16, 23 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Expatriates from the British Empire]] to [[:Category:Expatriates from former British colonies and protectorates]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Immigrants to the British Empire]] to [[:Category:Immigrants to former British colonies and protectorates]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Emigrants from the British Empire]] to [[:Category:Emigrants from former British colonies and protectorates]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Emigrants from the British Empire to the United States]] to [[:Category:Emigrants from former British colonies and protectorates to the United States]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:American emigrants to the British Empire]] to [[:Category:American emigrants to former British colonies and protectorates]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:British emigrants to the British Empire]] to [[:Category:British emigrants to former British colonies and protectorates]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Canadian emigrants to the British Empire]] to [[:Category:Canadian emigrants to former British colonies and protectorates]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Chinese emigrants to the British Empire]] to [[:Category:Chinese emigrants to former British colonies and protectorates]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Dutch emigrants to the British Empire]] to [[:Category:Dutch emigrants to former British colonies and protectorates]]
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:French emigrants to the British Empire]] to [[:Category:French emigrants to former British colonies and protectorates]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Being an expatriates/emigrants/immigrants from a former empire, like the British Empire, isn't defining. <s>People don't identify as being British Empire people. They identify as being [[:Category:People from former British colonies and protectorates|people from former British colonies and protectorates]].</s> I think we should either delete this category, or rename/containerize it to make it clearer that it's for expatriates/emigrants/immigrants. I'm modeling the rename after [[:Category: People from former British colonies and protectorates]]. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 01:55, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
'''Oppose'''. First, these categories are not about the present day, they are about an empire which existed for a few hundred years  . That's why "People don't identify as being British Empire people", but they most certainly did, it was a huge factor in their lives and they could travel freely within the empire. Second, the British protectorates were not part of the empire, and their people did not have [[British subject]] status – they were foreign and could (and often did) control their own borders. Even now, people born in an Indian princely state have a different status in the United Kingdom from those born in British India. My view is leave well alone. [[User:Moonraker|Moonraker]] ([[User talk:Moonraker|talk]]) 02:40, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

:Do you have an alternative name? Or thoughts on containerizing? I've struck part of the nom because my intent wasn't to make a past/present distinction. I didn't mean to convey that being in the British empire didn't matter. What I was trying to convey was that no one ''just ''identified as being in the british empire. They identified as being from somewhere within the empire. I'm trying to avoid folks being classified as just [[:Category:Emigrants from the British Empire]], rather than [[:Category:Emigrants from the British India]]  I'm very open to suggestions on what the name is, but right now what I'm trying to avoid is having lots of folks isolated as emmigrants/immigrants/expatriates in the British Empire category as opposed to the child categories (specific colonies etc). [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 02:47, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
::No, for me the present categories fit well into the wider scheme. Surely by your reasoning, the parent [[:Category:People from the British Empire]] also needs renaming. To say just "from former British colonies" would deal with my point about the protectorates, but there were always parts of the empire which were not colonies, such as the Dominions after self-government and British India under [[East India Company]] rule.  I think it's fine as it is. [[User:Moonraker|Moonraker]] ([[User talk:Moonraker|talk]]) 03:06, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
:::Gotcha -- that's really helpful for me.  What are your thoughts about containerizing to address the problem of folks being classified as ''just'' [[:Category:Emigrants from the British Empire]]?  [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 03:16, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
::::[[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]], I don't know what containerizing means here, but if you like the idea of all the biographies being in one of the sub-categories, it's surely a matter of moving them (and creating any missing sub-categories which are needed). [[User:Moonraker|Moonraker]] ([[User talk:Moonraker|talk]]) 15:50, 25 October 2023 (UTC) 
* '''Rename and containerize'''. If not renamed, '''Delete'''. It is preferable to focus on migration to each specific colony, as that would be what matters most for people, and how they would be referred. What is defining for [[Camille Malfroy]] is to be among {{C|French emigrants to New Zealand}} (a fact prominently featured in the article, and a category already there), rather than if the Dominion status or the Statute of Westminster existed at the time he moved. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 13:32, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
::{{U|Place Clichy}}, With the present name, there is no problem with the Dominions or the Statute of Westminster. My points above were that the protectorates were outside the empire and that there was much more to it than the colonies. Do you have any thoughts on why you think it's a better name? [[User:Moonraker|Moonraker]] ([[User talk:Moonraker|talk]]) 16:02, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
::: It's a better name because it allows [[Wikipedia:Container category|containerization]], i.e. the categories would no longer contain individual people but only sub-categories for emigrants to and from such and such territory. The core issue is that categories are only useful for [[WP:CATDEF|defining characteristics]], even more so for people. Mere technicalities, like expert debate as to which degree protectorates, LoN mandates etc., are a bit irrelevant to the biography of most people in these categories, that would usually just be usually defined as British officer, American patriot, Jamaican planter, New Zealand dentist etc. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 16:22, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
::::Thanks {{U|Place Clichy}},  for explaining the issue. In theory, {{U|Moonraker}}, it is just "a matter of moving them (and creating any missing sub-categories which are needed)." but, making that the official plan is helpful as it can discourage certain categorizations, especially when some of the "missing sub-categories" might have been deleted as non-defining. What I'm trying to prevent is a cycle of the same non-defining categories being recreated (because they're missing) and then deleted. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 18:02, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Solution in search of a problem. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 15:56, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 15:15, 1 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* '''Comment''', most articles are about people who emigrated from British colonies that later merged to Canada and Australia. For the former we can create "from British North America" subcategories, for the latter I do not have a solution. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:29, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
:* And even for Canada my suggestion does not help a lot. [[:Category:Emigrants from British North America to the United States]] already exists and any others would remain very small. At least I could move some 20 articles from [[:Category:Emigrants from the British Empire to the United States]] to [[:Category:Emigrants from British North America to the United States]].  [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:16, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:58, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== "Diaspora" in Australia ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''Alt rename''' There is a clear consensus both that the alt rename is preferable to a merge, and that a merge is preferable to the status quo. In the abstract, the consensus that a rename is preferable to the status quo is less clear because several participants didn't comment after the alt was proposed, but unless we have a [[Condorcet paradox]] on our hands then that translates to a consensus to rename. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 00:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
: '''Propose merging''' 
** [[:Category:British Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–United Kingdom relations]]
** [[:Category:Croatian Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Croatia relations]]
** [[:Category:Cypriot Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Cyprus relations]]
** [[:Category:Danish Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Denmark relations]]
** [[:Category:Dutch Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Netherlands relations]]
** [[:Category:French Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–France relations]]
** [[:Category:German Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Germany relations]]
** [[:Category:Greek Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Greece relations]]
** [[:Category:Icelandic Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Iceland relations]]
** [[:Category:Irish Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Ireland relations]]
** [[:Category:Italian Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Italy relations]]
** [[:Category:Norwegian Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Norway relations]]
** [[:Category:Polish Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Poland relations]]
** [[:Category:Portuguese Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Portugal relations]]
** [[:Category:Serbian Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Serbia relations]]
** [[:Category:Swedish Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Sweden relations]]
** [[:Category:South African Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–South Africa relations]]
** [[:Category:Egyptian Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Egypt relations]]
** [[:Category:Lebanese Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Lebanon relations]]
** [[:Category:Iranian Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Iran relations]]
** [[:Category:Iraqi Australian]] to [[:Category:Australia–Iraq relations]]
** [[:Category:Argentine Australian]] to [[:Category:Argentina–Australia relations]]
: '''Propose manual merge to the foreign relations tree'''
** [[:Category:European Australian]]
** [[:Category:English Australian]]
** [[:Category:Scottish Australian]]
** [[:Category:Welsh Australian]]
** [[:Category:African Australian]]
** [[:Category:Arab Australian]]
** [[:Category:Asian-Australian society]]
** [[:Category:Assyrian Australian]]
** [[:Category:Caribbean Australian]]
** [[:Category:Coptic Australian]]
** [[:Category:Mandaean Australians]]
** [[:Category:Oceanian Australian]]
** [[:Category:Polynesian Australian]]
:'''Nominator's rationale: merge''', a seemingly uncontroversial C2C nomination at [[WP:CFDS|speedy]] resulted in a very long discussion. My take-away from that discussion is that this sort of categories is entirely unnecessary or undesirable especially in Australia, so we can better upmerge them to the foreign relations parents. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 22:17, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
{{cot|copy of speedy discussion}}
* [[:Category:European Australian]] to [[:Category:European diaspora in Australia]], per C2B/C2C as the standard consensual name for diaspora categories including parent {{Cl|European diaspora in Oceania}}, consistently adopted in CFDs ([[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 February 12#Category:British Asian|1]], [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 February 10#Category:Armenians of Romania|2]], [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 January 14#Category:Thai Chinese|3]], [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 October 15#Category:Asian diaspora in France|4]]...) and also because categories named after adjectives are ambiguous per [[WP:COPSEP]]. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 23:54, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
** [[:Category:British Australian]] to [[:Category:British diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:English Australian]] to [[:Category:English diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Scottish Australian]] to [[:Category:Scottish diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Welsh Australian]] to [[:Category:Welsh diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Croatian Australian]] to [[:Category:Croatian diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Cypriot Australian]] to [[:Category:Cypriot diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Danish Australian]] to [[:Category:Danish diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Dutch Australian]] to [[:Category:Dutch diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:French Australian]] to [[:Category:French diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:German Australian]] to [[:Category:German diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Greek Australian]] to [[:Category:Greek diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Icelandic Australian]] to [[:Category:Icelandic diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Irish Australian]] to [[:Category:Irish diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Italian Australian]] to [[:Category:Italian diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Norwegian Australian]] to [[:Category:Norwegian diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Polish Australian]] to [[:Category:Polish diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Portuguese Australian]] to [[:Category:Portuguese diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Serbian Australian]] to [[:Category:Serbian diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Swedish Australian]] to [[:Category:Swedish diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:African Australian]] to [[:Category:African diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:South African Australian]] to [[:Category:South African diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Asian-Australian society]] to [[:Category:Asian diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Arab Australian]] to [[:Category:Arab diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Egyptian Australian]] to [[:Category:Egyptian diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Lebanese Australian]] to [[:Category:Lebanese diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Assyrian Australian]] to [[:Category:Assyrian diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Caribbean Australian]] to [[:Category:Caribbean diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Coptic Australian]] to [[:Category:Coptic diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Iranian Australian]] to [[:Category:Iranian diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Iraqi Australian]] to [[:Category:Iraqi diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Argentine Australian]] to [[:Category:Argentine diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Mandaean Australians]] to [[:Category:Mandaean diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Oceanian Australian]] to [[:Category:Oceanian diaspora in Australia]]
** [[:Category:Polynesian Australian]] to [[:Category:Polynesian diaspora in Australia]]
*:'''Oppose'''. In the context of Australia this perspective does not make sense. We consider them to be Australian I think calling it "diaspora" is kind of insinuating that these people aren't "real" Australians. It seems to me to be against Australia's multicultural values.
*:Also, I believe that Australian Wikipedia have decided on a standard already, as seen by the amount you would have to change. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 04:44, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
*::It also appears that the categories are already organised as [[:Category:British Australian]] -> [[:Category:Australian people of British descent]]. This seems like a waste of time. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 04:52, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
*:::I do feel like you should have consulted [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia]] [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 05:17, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
*:@[[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] and @[[User:Neegzistuoja|Neegzistuoja]]<nowiki/>and @[[User:JML1148|JML1148]] . Would love to hear your thoughts on this. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 05:01, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
*::Also, @[[User:StormcrowMithrandir|StormcrowMithrandir]] [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 05:03, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
*: For the thirty or so entries beginning with "[[:Category:British Australian]] to [[:Category:British diaspora in Australia]]", I don't like either option! Unlike the home of Wikipedia, the USA, here in Australia we rarely describe somebody as British Australian, or any of those other double barrelled labels. (I NEVER do!) People are just Australians, often of diverse ancestry, so diverse and mixed that it would be silly to try list all the elements. I have at least four known ancestries. My wife has two, both different from mine. Think of the children! Those "diaspora" entries just seem obscure and a bit pompous. Most of the people I know who are of at least partly British ancestry have never talked to me about being part of a diaspora. Same for all those other ancestries. Can I suggest just getting rid of these categories completely? [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 05:41, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
*::You know I would actually agree with this. Most Australians are just referred to as Australians. Maybe Indigenous Australians/First Nations Australians as separate makes sense. Asian Australians seems to be in use because of Australia's proximity to Asia. Although it could be seen as controversial that white Australians are considered as just Australians, it is how the term is commonly used. I think that WikiProject Australia would have to figure this out. We might need to have a look at immigration and immigrants. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 06:54, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
*::: {{Re|AverageFraud|HiLo48}} I am sorry that the creator of these categories (that's not me) did not consult WikiProject Australia before creating them. I'm just trying, like you, to clean up this mess as much as I can. These "double-barrelled labels" have many problems: as you rightly put it that's most of the time not the way people actually define themselves, also it's generally wrong to call categories using adjectives, and it is ambiguous if these categories are about people individually or groups seen collectively. There are many reasons why we try to keep topic categories and categories for people separate, which are summarised in guideline [[WP:SEPARATE]].
*::: In my opinion, '''the worst outcome would be to leave things as they stand now'''. To alleviate your concerns ''about the suggested renaming'', let me stress that:
*:::# These categories aren't labels for people. In most cases, categories for people are in the format of [[:Category:Australian people of Greek descent]] (using an example other that British for clarity). In some cases, some users also create categories for immigrants and expatriates when ''descent'' is not appropriate.
*:::# In most cases, people '''do not need ancestry categories at all'''. In fact, our categorization guidelines suggest to use only them when it brings relevance to someone's biography (e.g. having British ancestry rarely sets someone apart from other Australians, per guideline [[WP:EGRS]]), when reliable sources consistently and constantly define that person by these characteristics (per guideline [[WP:DEFINE]]), and when that ancestry is no further than the grand-parents (per guideline [[WP:COPHERITAGE]]). Despite this, editors just seem to need to add them by the dozen, which saddens me. ({{diff||1122611812|1122611699|Why do this, really?}}) But again, these people categories are not affected by the present nomination.
*:::# Topic categories for ''all the stuff that's German etc. in Australia'' are in fact near-empty containers, which only serve a technical role, however useful. E.g. {{Cl|Italian Australian}}, which I suggest to rename to {{Cl|Italian diaspora in Australia}}, contains no more (and no less) than articles [[Italian Australians]] and [[List of Italian-Australian communities]] and children [[:Category:Australian people of Italian descent]], [[:Category:Italian expatriates in Australia]], [[:Category:Italian-Australian culture]], and [[:Category:Italian-Australian history]], which is typical. Mere deletion and scattering this content would probably not be an improvement.
*:::# Many sibling categories already use the ''diaspora'' format without problem or opposition, which I believe makes it eligible for speedy renaming per [[WP:C2C]]: {{Cl|Estonian diaspora in Australia}}, {{Cl|Finnish diaspora in Australia}}, {{Cl|Russian diaspora in Australia}}, {{Cl|Ukrainian diaspora in Australia}}.
*::: So I '''kindly ask you to withdraw you opposition''' to this renaming, which I believe constitutes an improvement, small as it is, and is eligible by our criteria for the speedy renaming of categories. You are of course welcome to still oppose, in which case the immediate result is that we'll be left with the categories as they stand now. Until, some day, someone, maybe me, has the [[WP:Wikipedia is a volunteer service|energy]] to put them through a full discussion at [[WP:CFD]], but that could end with a frustrating ''no consensus'' result. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 14:01, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
*::::[[Diaspora]] says "''The word is used in reference to people who identify with a specific geographic location, but currently reside elsewhere.''" What on earth does "identify with" mean? I'm Australian. I have ancestors from France, Denmark, Scotland, and England, but that was many generations ago. I have never visited those places in my over 70 years of being on this planet. Am I identifying with them? Who are we to declare whether someone identifies with a country they don't live in? A lot of Americans do, because they declare themselves to be Italian-American, or Asian-American, but as I said above, Australians don't. Then there is the multiple ancestry thing. Am I in all four of the diasporas of the countries I have ancestors from? That would seem a bit silly. This is all so unclear. So, what will the rules be for assigning people to diasporas? [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 04:56, 23 October 2023 (UTC) 
*:::::Maybe instead of diaspora we use the phrase "ethnic or national descent", this phrasing makes it clear that it is about ancestry. For example "Australians of Asian ethnic or national descent" or Australians of European ethnic or national descent". This makes sense to me as a compromise, as like this is still a encyclopaedia. Diaspora seems to imply that they aren't really Australians. This way makes it clear that they are considered Australians first and foremost. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 05:12, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*::::::I like your final two sentences. I'm not sure about ethnic or national. Both words have multiple meanings. The only related question on the Australian census asks about ancestry, not ethnicity or nationality. Ancestry is the word I would prefer to see used. [[User:HiLo48|HiLo48]] ([[User talk:HiLo48|talk]]) 05:46, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*:::::::So, "Australians of Greek ancestry" as opposed to "Greek diaspora in Australia" or "Greek Australian". This makes sense to me. We can follow the ABS's Australian Standard Classification of Cultural and Ethnic Groups (ASCCEG) to help with the organisation. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 08:16, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*:::::::: Good point. In fact, categories for people are already at [[:Category:Australian people of Greek descent]] and the like, which is how it should be. The categories listed below are just a very minor technical point, really. In a way, you could call each of them "''all stuff that has a link to Greece (or Iraq, or Poland...) in Australia besides people''" and have very few things directly in them (for Greek stuff, one [[Greek Australians|main article]] and 3 child categories, for {{C|Australian people of Greek descent|people}}, {{C|Greek expatriates in Australia|expatriates}}, and {{C|Greek-Australian culture|culture}}). They are already parented to parent categories which use ''diaspora'', e.g. {{C|Greek diaspora}}/{{C|Greek diaspora by country}}, whose aim is to bridge categories with similar feature around the world. I don't honestly find that ''diaspora'' is insulting or diminishing, especially since articles for people should never be placed directly in a ''diaspora'' category, and most people should not be placed in ''descent'' categories for all their ancestries anyway. However, the current names are just really really bad, because they don't apply to Australian culture as you so rightly explain it and because they are adjectives. That's why I invite you, again, to withdraw your opposition and allow this <u>technical</u> renaming to proceed. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 10:25, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*:::::::::Why not "Greek Australian society" as opposed to diaspora. That would be a more accurate description. Diaspora seems like the wrong word here. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 18:11, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*:::::::::: This seems to be an acceptable compromise. Would that be just for the Greek category? For the British/E/I/S/W as well? All the below list? Maybe you find that ''diaspora'' does not appropriately describe the Australian majority culture, but it does apply to e.g. the [[Iraqi Australians|Iraqis]] or [[Mandaean Australian|Mandaeans]]. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 08:41, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
*:::::::::::Okay, I know that we have just been arguing about semantics. I don't want to argue anymore about how I feel. Can you find a minimum of three sources that confirm that diaspora is used in the Australian context. If you do I will withdraw my opposition. Seems like a simple request. If you can find a list of diasporas in Australia from a high quality source, that would also benefit us when deciding which categories to keep. I'm sorry that it took this long, for me to think of an appropriate solution. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 09:34, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
*::::: {{Re|AverageFraud}} "{{tq|Who are we to declare whether someone identifies with a country they don't live in? [...] So, what will the rules be for assigning people to diasporas?}}" No article, no person should be assigned to such a diaspora category. Think of it as a Greek restaurant or a Greek cultural club with a flag displayed on the facade (or Thai, or Peruvian...). That should be in a ''Greek stuff in Autralia'' category. People who don't carry a flag with them => they just shouldn't be in that category. It's not for them. But we need to rename them (the categories) anyway. For now. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 10:25, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*::::::Wrong ping. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 18:12, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
*: {{ping|Place Clichy}} if I were you I'd go to full CfD and propose a split of [[:Category:European Australian]] and all of its subcategories to "culture" and "descent" separately. They can still both be parented to a Australia–other country relations. Or even more simple, propose an upmerge of every subcategory to Australia–other country relations.  [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:41, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
*:: I intend to do something like that shortly, when I find the practical way to do it (I'm not good at CFDs with many categories). I still believe that there is a consistent set of topic ''Fooian diaspora in Bar'' categories, but it is really not in a good state right now. Mostly the work of long-gone and blocked accounts, or even worse, based on topic articles often of little quality and unreliable sources. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 22:02, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
*:::Sounds good to me. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 03:34, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
*:Strongly '''oppose'''. Needlessly long-winded and verbose. The current nomenclature eg 'Chinese Australians', etc is idiomatic, simple, concise and in common usage.[[User:StormcrowMithrandir|'''<span style="color:purple">Stormcrow</span><span style="color:darkblue">Mithrandir</span>''']] 09:16, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
{{cob}}
: {{ping|Place Clichy|StormcrowMithrandir|AverageFraud|HiLo48}} pinging contributors of speedy discussion. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 22:27, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
::'''Merge''' per nom. It's a solution, not one I like but it works. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 20:13, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge''' per nom. There may be cases in which a ''Fooian diaspora in Australia'' or ''Fooian-Australian society'' category may be useful, but in general these do not have a lot of content at this level. Especially, categories named after adjectives in the ''Fooian Barian'' format are never useful and always ambiguous. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 02:35, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' merger. This is an absurd proposal as the two things refer to entirely different concepts. One is the diplomatic relations between one country and another. The other is citizens of Australia with ethnic heritage from another. Chinese-Australians are something entirely different to Australia-China relations and to merge these types of articles is appallingly misleading, not to mention unnecessary when the existing structure is useful and reflects useful, clear concepts.[[User:StormcrowMithrandir|'''<span style="color:purple">Stormcrow</span><span style="color:darkblue">Mithrandir</span>''']] 00:51, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
*: I think there's a mistake. The category for citizens of Australia of e.g. Chinese heritage is {{Cl|Australian people of Chinese descent}}, and won't change <small>(and BTW it is already a child of {{Cl|Australia–China relations}})</small>. This reaction demonstrates, once again, that the purpose and scope of these "''Fooian Barian''" categories is the opposite of clear. That's in great part because naming categories with adjectives never works. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 01:17, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
::* Exactly, throughout the country–country relations tree, "diaspora" categories are part of it. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 22:08, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:56, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
::I don't see any reason as to why we need to rename the categories. The term "diaspora" is often used to describe any group of people who live outside of their homeland. However, there is no clear definition of what constitutes a diaspora. Some people use the term "diaspora" to promote a sense of nationalism and exclusion among a particular group of people. For example, some people might use the term "Chinese diaspora" to refer to all people of Chinese descent who live outside of China, regardless of their citizenship or nationality. This can lead to the exclusion of people who identify with other cultures or who have integrated into their host countries. For example in the case of the category "Chinese Australian", I believe that this is a more specific and descriptive term than "Chinese diaspora in Australia". It clearly identifies the category as being about people who are both Chinese and Australian. It also avoids the potential pitfalls of using the term "diaspora". In the case of Chinese people in Australia, the term "Chinese diaspora" can erase some of the differences between Chinese people from different backgrounds. For example, Chinese people in Australia may come from different parts of China, have different religions, and speak different dialects of Chinese. However, when they live together in Australia, they may develop a shared sense of identity as "Chinese Australians." This shared identity can sometimes lead people to overlook the differences between them. I used Chinese as an example because I think that it made my point clearer. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 03:43, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
::: I disagree that diaspora means {{tq|people who live outside of their homeland}}. I think diaspora refers to people in their homeland, in relations to a heritage (among many different heritages, as people usually have several), and when they claim it only. For content relative to present-day Australia or Australians independently of any heritage (Chinese or British or Peruvian), then they wouldn't be in any of these categories anyway. The nomination here is to merge these useless intermediate categories up one level, not rename them. Of course, there is also the alternative to rename the categories to the format of {{Cl|Asian-Australian society}}, which does not use the word ''diaspora'' but avoid most ambiguity problems of the current categories named after adjectives. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 09:31, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
::::Okay I'll accept that. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 19:49, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Propose alternative''' following the above discussion:
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|African Australian}} to {{Cl|African-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Arab Australian}} to {{Cl|Arab-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Argentine Australian}} to {{Cl|Argentine-Australian society}}
** '''Propose keeping''' {{Cl|Asian-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Assyrian Australian}} to {{Cl|Assyrian-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|British Australian}} to {{Cl|British-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Caribbean Australian}} to {{Cl|Caribbean-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Coptic Australian}} to {{Cl|Coptic-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Croatian Australian}} to {{Cl|Croatian-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Cypriot Australian}} to {{Cl|Cypriot-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Danish Australian}} to {{Cl|Danish-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Dutch Australian}} to {{Cl|Dutch-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Egyptian Australian}} to {{Cl|Egyptian-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|English Australian}} to {{Cl|English-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|European Australian}} to {{Cl|European-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|French Australian}} to {{Cl|French-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|German Australian}} to {{Cl|German-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Greek Australian}} to {{Cl|Greek-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Icelandic Australian}} to {{Cl|Icelandic-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Iranian Australian}} to {{Cl|Iranian-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Iraqi Australian}} to {{Cl|Iraqi-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Irish Australian}} to {{Cl|Irish-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Italian Australian}} to {{Cl|Italian-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Lebanese Australian}} to {{Cl|Lebanese-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Mandaean Australians}} to {{Cl|Mandaean-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Norwegian Australian}} to {{Cl|Norwegian-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Oceanian Australian}} to {{Cl|Oceanian-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Polish Australian}} to {{Cl|Polish-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Polynesian Australian}} to {{Cl|Polynesian-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Portuguese Australian}} to {{Cl|Portuguese-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Scottish Australian}} to {{Cl|Scottish-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Serbian Australian}} to {{Cl|Serbian-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|South African Australian}} to {{Cl|South African-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Swedish Australian}} to {{Cl|Swedish-Australian society}}
** '''Propose renaming''' {{Cl|Welsh Australian}} to {{Cl|Welsh-Australian society}}
: This format makes it clear that it is for topics relative to a heritage group seen collectively (such as culture, organizations, restaurants, history etc.) and not for individual people, who are in children categories such as {{Cl|Australian people of Argentine descent}}. This alone is an improvement from the current ambiguous names. {{Ping|Marcocapelle|AverageFraud|HiLo48|StormcrowMithrandir|Qwerfjkl}} would you prefer this alternative? [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 18:44, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
::Yes I prefer this alternative. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 05:50, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
::I definitely prefer it to what you previously proposed for the categories but the articles themselves should most certainly not be renamed.[[User:StormcrowMithrandir|'''<span style="color:purple">Stormcrow</span><span style="color:darkblue">Mithrandir</span>''']] 00:52, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
::'''Oppose''' since the descent categories were renamed from "X Australians", I think this is inconsistent with that. I would suggest instead, "X culture in Australia", eg. "African culture in Australia". ([[User talk:Buidhe|t]] &#183; [[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|c]]) '''[[User:buidhe|<span style="color: black">buidhe</span>]]''' 06:43, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:::I think that you are mistaken, there already exists a category called Australians of X descent. This proposal will be the category above that one.
:::So Chinese-Australian society -> Australians of Chinese descent. The article names won't be changed, so the article Chinese Australians will be in the category Australians of Chinese descent. And the category Australians of Chinese descent will be in the category Chinese-Australian society. 
:::I think society covers more broadly than culture or diaspora.  [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 21:01, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
::::'''Society''' is a broader term that encompasses all aspects of human life, including social, political, economic, and cultural aspects. It refers to a group of people who live together in a particular place and share a common way of life.
::::'''Culture''' is a narrower term that refers to the shared values, beliefs, and practices of a particular group of people. It is often expressed through art, music, language, and food
::::'''Diaspora''' refers to a group of people who have left their homeland and settled in other parts of the world. They may maintain some ties to their homeland, but they also develop their own unique culture and identity.
::::For example, Chinese Australians, the term "society" is often used to emphasize the group's integration into Australian society. It suggests that Chinese Australians are not just a distinct cultural group, but also an active and integral part of Australian society. [[User:AverageFraud|AverageFraud]] ([[User talk:AverageFraud|talk]]) 21:06, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Sangnyeong Choe clan ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''Delete''' [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 04:32, 21 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Sangnyeong Choe clan]] to [[:Category:Saknyeong Choe clan]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' I think that this is a typo, as the single-page member in the English page is listed as belonging to the "Saknyeong Choe clan". (Alternative is delete the category, until there's a criteria mass of people like the interlanguage linked categories) [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 00:39, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
* '''Delete for now''', without objection to recreate the category when it can contain at least a handful of articles. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 02:55, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:51, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Films directed by David Zucker (director) ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename''' to [[:Category:Films directed by David Zucker]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 00:00, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Films directed by David Zucker (director)]] to [[:Category:Films directed by David Zucker]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' C2D ([[David Zucker]]. [[User:Trivialist|Trivialist]] ([[User talk:Trivialist|talk]]) 02:33, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:49, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* '''Keep''', there is also [[David W. Zucker]], a television producer. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 16:34, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' This David Zucker receives far more pageviews than David W. Zucker does, and D.W. Zucker does not have a similar category. Also, the disambiguator is different than in the category below. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:22, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Rename''' per non. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 04:47, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
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==== Category:Films with screenplays by David Zucker (filmmaker) ====
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:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename''' to [[:Category:Films with screenplays by David Zucker]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 00:00, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Films with screenplays by David Zucker (filmmaker)]] to [[:Category:Films with screenplays by David Zucker]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' C2D ([[David Zucker]]. [[User:Trivialist|Trivialist]] ([[User talk:Trivialist|talk]]) 02:33, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:49, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* '''Keep''', there is also [[David W. Zucker]], a television producer. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:00, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' This David Zucker receives far more pageviews than David W. Zucker does, and D.W. Zucker does not have a similar category. Also, the disambiguator is different than in the category below. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:22, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Rename''' per nom. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 04:26, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
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==== Category:Clans and Houses of the indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename''' to [[:Category:Indigenous clans of the Pacific Northwest Coast]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:23, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Clans and Houses of the indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast]] to [[:Category:Indigenous clans of the Pacific Northwest Coast]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' this alternative name is shorter, but I might be missing some nuance [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 04:48, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
* At least it should be "clans" instead of "clan". [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:57, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
:*Fixed. Good catch! [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 21:35, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:48, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* I had waited to react until possibly some sort of objection would be raised. Since there isn't any reaction, '''rename''' per nom. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:03, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====Category:Heavenly attendants in Jainism====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 19%23Category:Heavenly attendants in Jainism]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Greek Orthodox Christians from Lebanon ====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 23%23Category:Greek Orthodox Christians from Lebanon]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Obsolete writing systems ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''keep'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:26, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Obsolete writing systems]] to [[:Category:Extinct writing systems]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Match sister category, [[:Category:Extinct languages]]. [[User:Treetoes023|Treetoes023]] ([[User talk:Treetoes023|talk]]) 19:07, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
{{cot|copy of speedy discussion}}
* [[:Category:Obsolete writing systems]] to [[:Category:Extinct writing systems]] – [[WP:C2C|C2C]]: [[:Category:Extinct languages]]. – [[User:Treetoes023|Treetoes023]] ([[User talk:Treetoes023|talk]]) 18:08, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
*:'''Support.''' [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 20:03, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
*:'''Oppose''' [[WP:C2C]] doesn't seem to apply so I think this should go through normal [[WP:CFD]] process. [[:Category:Extinct languages]] is in a different category tree from [[:Category:Obsolete writing systems]]. [[:Category:Obsolete writing systems]] is in [[:Category:Writing systems]] (which has no other "Obsolete" or "Extinct" categories) and [[:Category:Former entities]] (which doesn't appear to have an "established naming convention.") [[User:Referencer12|Referencer12]] ([[User talk:Referencer12|talk]]) 03:43, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
*::Agree with this, should have discussion [[User:Toobigtokale|toobigtokale]] ([[User talk:Toobigtokale|talk]]) 13:52, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
{{cob}}
: {{ping|Smasongarrison|Referencer12|Toobigtokale}} pinging contributors to speedy discussion. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:04, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - From what I can tell, the commonly used word for these is "Obsolescence", with "Obsolete" being used as well. So, using "Obsolete" in this form, would seem to be appropriate. - <b>[[User:Jc37|jc37]]</b> 11:06, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
*:{{Reply to|Jc37}} In linguistics, it is convention to use the adjective "extinct" to describe a language/writing system that is no longer in use. How did you come to the conclusion that obsolescence/obsolete is more commonly used (sorry if this question comes off as rude, I am just curious how you came to this conclusion)? – [[User:Treetoes023|Treetoes023]] ([[User talk:Treetoes023|talk]]) 12:50, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 14:13, 31 October 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
*:: Hi [[User:Treetoes023|Treetoes023]] - So first, there is a difference between a [[language]] and a [[writing system]].  Second, you may want to read the intro to [[Extinct languages]], which talks about the difference between "extinct" and "dead" - both of which are defined by ''speakers'' of a ''spoken'' language.
*::As for why I said what I did above, it was based upon search results. I also found "defunct" and "no longer in use". But more predominantly, I found "undeciphered". So anyway, I'm in doubt that there is a "standard convention" for this. - <b>[[User:Jc37|jc37]]</b> 17:13, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:38, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* '''Weak oppose''' per above, plus some, like [[Old Hungarian script]] may have some revivalist uses to the present. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 17:48, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Wives and girlfriends of association football players ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''Delete''' [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 02:46, 23 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Wives and girlfriends of association football players}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' If notability is [[WP:NOTINHERITED]], surely this association is not [[WP:DEFINING]]. '''--[[User:Woodensuperman|<span style="background:yellow; color:red;;">wooden</span>]][[User talk:Woodensuperman|<span style="background:yellow; color:blue;;">superman</span>]]''' 14:41, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
::'''Delete''' per several discussions related to [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_April_4#Category:Footballers'_wives_and_girlfriends]], including one comment from that category itself (which was a container for several football-family sports, including both [[association football|association]] and [[gridiron football]]). –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:56, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
* See also [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2022_September_10#Category:Association_footballers'_wives_and_girlfriends|previous discussion]] ending in no consensus. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 18:50, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
*<small>Note: This discussion has been included in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Football#Nominations for deletion and page moves|WikiProject Football]]'s list of association football-related page discussions. [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 19:45, 1 November 2023 (UTC)</small>
*'''Keep''' - clearly notable, see [[WAGs]], and {{cat|Spouses by occupation of partner}} which shows such categories are well established. [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 19:47, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
*:'''Keep''' as per same rationale. [[User:OGBC1992|OGBC1992]] ([[User talk:OGBC1992|talk]]) 11:29, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - per [[WP:ASSOCIATEDWITH]]. A gaggle of names in a category, with no indication of who they are specifically relatedd to, sounds like a list, at best. We have [[:Category:Wives by occupation of partner]], but it seems to me that that's just a collection of "wives of nobility", which has had performers' families, and sports wives/girlfriends added to it. Bad idea. Having a category that has a criteria of the occupation of their partner? Clear [[WP:ASSOCIATEDWITH]]. - <b>[[User:Jc37|jc37]]</b> 12:40, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Delete''', I checked a number of articles and it was not a defining characteristic for any of them. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 22:07, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - this category is an absolute train wreck, it says at the top that it should only be added where being the wife or girlfriend of a footballer is a defining characteristic of the person, yet it includes the likes of [[Becky G]] (famous for being a singer), [[Pamela Anderson]] (world-famous as an actor, it was honestly news to me that she once dated a footballer for less than two years) and [[Steph Houghton]] (famous for being a footballer herself and in all honesty is a better known footballer than her husband!) -- [[User:ChrisTheDude|ChrisTheDude]] ([[User talk:ChrisTheDude|talk]]) 12:08, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Further comment''' - out of interest, why does [[:Category:Wives by occupation of partner]] only contain the wives/girlfriends of noblemen, footballers, rugby players, and the Beatles?  Why is [[Pamela Anderson]] categorised as a wife/girlfriend of a footballer based on a brief relationship which most people won't even know happened but not categorised as a wife/girlfriend of a musician based on her relationship with Tommy Lee which was so well-known that they literally made a TV drama about it......? -- [[User:ChrisTheDude|ChrisTheDude]] ([[User talk:ChrisTheDude|talk]]) 12:21, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
*:I think this is exactly why these categories should not exist.  Being married to someone is not a defining characteristic.  People should never be categorised by other people or by their association with other people.  [[WP:OCASSOC]]. '''--[[User:Woodensuperman|<span style="background:yellow; color:red;;">wooden</span>]][[User talk:Woodensuperman|<span style="background:yellow; color:blue;;">superman</span>]]''' 12:59, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:38, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
*'''Keep''' per GiantSnowman. [[User:StAnselm|<b>St</b>]][[Special:Contributions/StAnselm|Anselm]] ([[User talk:StAnselm|talk]]) 15:57, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* The ''concept'' of WAG is notable but individual WAGs included in en.wp are nearly always notable on their own, not because they are a WAG. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:18, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Delete''' per [[WP:OCASSOC]]. –[[User:Aidan721|Aidan721]] ([[User talk:Aidan721|talk]]) 17:29, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep and trim''' as usual. Members must be individually notable, and it must be defining for them, but should not be deleted. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 17:49, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*:But this is the point, it is not defining for any of them. '''--[[User:Woodensuperman|<span style="background:yellow; color:red;;">wooden</span>]][[User talk:Woodensuperman|<span style="background:yellow; color:blue;;">superman</span>]]''' 12:10, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' for a small number of these people, being a [[WAG]] could be a defining characteristic. For 90+% of the people there, it isn't, so they should never be added to the category. All this category does is create repeated arguments and work because people add tonnes of inappropriate people to it. For example female footballers like [[Lisa Boattin]] who are also in relationship with other female footballers- how on earth is this a defining category for them? Everything I said when nominating this the last time is still true, yet people still insist this category should exist and keep disrupting articles. [[WP:OCASSOC]] is clear, and for almost everyone in the category, this is not a defining characteristic of their life, and is pushing towards sexism (defining women only by their marriages). [[User:Joseph2302|<b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b>]][[User talk:Joseph2302|<b style="color:#000000">2302</b>]] ([[User talk:Joseph2302|talk]]) 14:24, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' I agree with the delete comments, delete per above. [[User:Govvy|Govvy]] ([[User talk:Govvy|talk]]) 11:25, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' there isn't any applicable commonality between various wives or spouses of football players for there to be a need for such a category. The categorization of boyfriends/girlfriends is ridiculous per above as non-defining. [[User:Respublik|Respublik]] ([[User talk:Respublik|talk]]) 12:28, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Heptalenes ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''Rename''' Uncontested for three weeks. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 04:24, 21 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Heptalenes]] to [[:Category:Benzodihydroheptalenes]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Except for [[Heptalene]] itself, these compounds are not heptalenes; instead, they contain a fused [[cycloheptatriene]] (as [[tropone]]), [[1,3-cycloheptadiene]], and [[benzene]] component. The name is conjectural; I'm not sure if there is a more established name for this class of drugs.
<gallery>
File:Chemical structure of heptalene.png|[[Heptalene]], the parent compound
File:Colchicin.svg|[[Colchicine]]; the other two compounds have a similar structure
</gallery> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:43, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

:Of course, [[Heptalene]] will likely be dropped from the category. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:45, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:36, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Harvard College faculty ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''Merge''' Uncontested for more than a month. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 04:23, 21 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Harvard College faculty]] to [[:Category:Harvard Faculty of Arts and Sciences faculty]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' [[Harvard College]] faculty is an older name for [[Harvard Faculty of Arts and Sciences]]. "FAS is the only faculty responsible for both undergraduate and graduate education. FAS administers the courses offered at Harvard College, the Kenneth C. Griffin Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, The John A. Paulson School of Engineering and Applied Sciences (SEAS), and the Harvard Division of Continuing Education." [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 16:13, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 21:22, 31 October 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:34, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Sámi associations ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:Sámi organisations]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:28, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Sámi associations]] to [[:Category:Sámi organisations]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''merge''', redundant category layer, it is the only subcategory of the target. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:39, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
::I have no issue with them being merged, but perhaps it would be better to rename the category as well to ''Category:Sámi associations and organizations''? - [[User:Yupik|Yupik]] ([[User talk:Yupik|talk]]) 19:25, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
::* The convention is just "organizations", this category is part of the tree of [[:Category:Indigenous organizations]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:17, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
*OK, but also merge Wikdata https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q8700788 to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q8700846. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 17:29, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
*:The concepts in those wd items are two different things though in Inari Saami, Northern Saami, Finnish, etc. Not sure about Norwegian and Swedish. So I don't think they should necessarily be merged in wd. - [[User:Yupik|Yupik]] ([[User talk:Yupik|talk]]) 02:02, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
*:: {{ping|Yupik}} does [[:se:Kategoriija:Sámesearvvit]] mean "services" as opposed to "organisations"? Even so, its parent [[:se:Kategoriija:Searvvit ja organišuvnnat]] combines those two things and is linked to [[:en:Category:Organizations]], and it seems unlikely that anyone would create separate "Sámi organisations" categories in se & smn Wikipedias, so I can't see how it would be helpful for navigation to keep the two wd items separate. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 10:25, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
*:::No, it means "associations", "searvi" in the singular. I likely created that combo cat back when I first started because I didn't know what to do with the difference or where to link things. I should fix it eventually. The same word in smn (in the singular) would be "servi", as in [[Anarâškielâ servi]] (The Inari Saami Language Association). It's not a big deal though; if they get merged in wd, they can always be unmerged if someone categorizes them separately somewhere outside of enwp. - [[User:Yupik|Yupik]] ([[User talk:Yupik|talk]]) 12:10, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:29, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
::'''Support''' per nom. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 22:27, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Fictional characters with obesity ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''No consensus to delete''', therefore '''purge''' [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 02:10, 23 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
:* '''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:Fictional characters with obesity]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Do we actually need a category like this? I don't know if we need to list every article about fictional fatties. [[User:AHI-3000|AHI-3000]] ([[User talk:AHI-3000|talk]]) 04:50, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
* '''Delete''', fictional characters often aren't diagnosed as obese. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:39, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
*<s>'''Support''' delete (or possibly </s>'''purge '''is someone makes a compelling argument that this is defining category.)[[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 12:52, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
:* updated to keep/purge per LaundryPizza03[[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 15:05, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Note''': I have listed the current members under a new subheading at [[Obesity in the United States#See also]]. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 11:52, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Obesity is often a defining characteristic for these characters, and they are often portrayed stereotypically in the media; see also [[Social_stigma_of_obesity#In_the_media]]. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 18:14, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
*:Good point. How about '''purge''' and add some clear description to the category? [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 15:04, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Purge''' per Mason. Defining characteristic, just not in the way the category is currently used. [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 13:47, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:24, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
*<s>'''Rename''' to [[:Category:Fictional overweight characters]]. Saying that a character has obesity or not falls under [[WP:OR|original research]] most of the time, but we can visibly see that they are overweight. [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 15:28, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</s>
* '''Delete''' I don't think there's enough characters to maintain this as a viable category when the ones not specifically diagnosed with obesity are removed. [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 18:35, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*:Oppose rename. I think that would broaden the scope of the category too much. I think that we should stick with obesity as the term because it fits nicely within the parent category of [[:Category:Works about obesity]] [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 15:31, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*::I do not think it does. Sometimes we must talk differently about fictional characters than real people. Obesity is a real-world medical term, but few of these fictional works specifically call characters "obese". We are conflating medical ailments from the real world with any sort of bulky fictional character, that is strictly original research.  [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 15:40, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*::* {{tq|we can visibly see that they are overweight}} implies at least as much original research as obesity. Obesity can be diagnosed. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:23, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*::::All right, I can agree with that and have changed my !vote. [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 18:35, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* If purging means removing every character without diagnosis then I'll happily support that too. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:25, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Elite Radio Group ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:Mass media in Ark-La-Tex]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 23:58, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Elite Radio Group]] to [[:Category:Mass media in Ark-La-Tex]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' A two-station radio group in which both stations are in the same market —and in which the company has no article — seems like a bit of a stretch to warrant a separate category. '''[[User:Wcquidditch|<span style="color:red">WC</span>''<span style="color:#999933">Quidditch</span>'']]''' [[User talk:Wcquidditch|<span style="color:red">☎</span>]] [[Special:Contribs/Wcquidditch|<span style="color:#999933">✎</span>]] 05:56, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:23, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
*'''Merge''' per nom. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:30, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Sultanate of Deli ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:29, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Sultanate of Deli}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''delete''', redundant category layer, the subcategory suffices. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:04, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 15:23, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
::'''support in principle.''' But let's make sure that we don't accidentally isolate the child category and lone page member. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 15:40, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::* Yes, I checked that. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:28, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::*:excellent!  [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 21:25, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====Category:Fictional blade and dart throwers====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 29%23Category:Fictional blade and dart throwers]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Fictional LGBT characters by gender or sex ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:Fictional LGBT characters]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 23:57, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Fictional LGBT characters by gender or sex]] to [[:Category:Fictional LGBT characters by gender identity]]
:'''Option A: rename and purge''', aligning with parent category [[:Category:LGBT people by gender identity]] and move [[:Category:Fictional intersex characters]] to [[:Category:Fictional LGBT characters]] since that is not a gender identity.
: '''Option B: merge''' to [[:Category:Fictional LGBT characters]] because the category contains rather unrelated subcategories.
:- [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:34, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
::I '''support''' either solution, but have a mild preference for B. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 23:24, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* Mild preference for '''Option B'''. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 11:16, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' Rename & purge or merge?<br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Edward-Woodrow|Edward-Woodrow]] ([[User talk:Edward-Woodrow|talk]]) 15:09, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
*'''Option B''' It is simply overcategorization. [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 15:11, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Option B''' Unnecessary sub-level that overlaps with the top. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 21:09, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:People of the Chincha Islands War by nationality ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:30, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:People of the Chincha Islands War by nationality]] to [[:Category:People of the Chincha Islands War]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' only one subcategory, upmerge to help navigation [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 15:07, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge''' per nom. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:32, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Fictional blade fighters ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:30, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Fictional blade fighters]] to [[:Category:Fictional melee weapons practitioners]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Fictional blunt weapon users]] to [[:Category:Fictional melee weapons practitioners]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Fictional flexible weapons practitioners]] to [[:Category:Fictional melee weapons practitioners]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' All of these fall under [[WP:OVERLAPCAT]]. There is no particular need to separate bladed, blunt and flexible weapons, this is overcategorization at its finest.  [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 14:28, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::'''Support'''. I don't think that type of melee weapon is defining. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 15:33, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::'''Oppose''' [[User:AHI-3000|AHI-3000]] ([[User talk:AHI-3000|talk]]) 01:50, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge''', we do not have this distinction for real people either. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:36, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Fictional chainsaw fighters ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:Fictional melee weapons practitioners]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 12:15, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Fictional chainsaw fighters}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Created by blocked sock account. I was not even aware a "chainsaw fighter" was a thing. Using a chainsaw yes, but that is not defining in the slightest, therefore I suggest deletion.  [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 14:24, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::'''Support''' in principle. It might be worth looking through the pages to see if any could be added to [[:Category:Chainsaws]] [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 15:34, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:::Actually, I could see justification for [[:Category:Chainsaws in popular culture]], if we include ''[[The Texas Chainsaw Massacre]]''. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 18:52, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
::'''Merge''' to [[:Category:Fictional melee weapons practitioners]], as these characters seem to all use chainsaws as weapons. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 18:49, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====Category:Fictional martial arts trainers====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 27%23Category:Fictional martial arts trainers]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Fictional Olympic competitors ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:31, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Fictional Olympic competitors}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Created by sock account. [[WP:NONDEF]] applies, these characters are not defined by being an Olympic athlete.  [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 14:12, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::'''Support''' in principle. It might be worth looking through the pages to see if any could be added to [[:Category:Olympic Games in fiction]]. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 15:35, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Untitled nobility ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''No consensus''' [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 02:23, 28 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
:* '''Propose deleting''' [[:Category:European untitled nobility]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Austrian untitled nobility]] to [[:Category:Austrian nobility]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:French untitled nobility]] to [[:Category:French nobility]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:German untitled nobility]] to [[:Category:German nobility]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Italian untitled nobility]] to [[:Category:Italian nobility]]
:* '''Propose splitting''' [[:Category:Russian untitled nobility]] to [[:Category:Russian nobility]] and [[:Category:Nobility from the Russian Empire]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Untitled nobility from the Russian Empire]] to [[:Category:Nobility from the Russian Empire]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Spanish untitled nobility]] to [[:Category:Spanish nobility]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Swedish untitled nobility]] to [[:Category:Swedish nobility]]
:'''Nominator's rationale: delete/merge/split''' per [[WP:OCMISC]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:23, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per nom. –[[User:Aidan721|Aidan721]] ([[User talk:Aidan721|talk]]) 12:40, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
*:'''Support''' per nom [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 12:49, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Untitled nobility is a natural subgroup of the nobility, in some cases with a specific set of rights or organisation. It is not a miscellenous group created specifically for categorisation on Wikipedia, which is what [[WP:OCMISC]] aims to stop. [[User:Andejons|Andejons]] ([[User talk:Andejons|talk]]) 09:03, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
:* Then I'd like to see reliable sources for the rights of this specific type of nobility, apart from rights of nobility in general. Admittedly Google is not the most reliable search engine, but when I search there I find nothing but wikis. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:40, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
::You can look up the organisation of [[Swedish nobility]], where untitled nobility during some periods voted as two separate classes. Anyway, the main point is that this is not the type of categories OCMISC is about. (Also, the ideal would be to rename e.g. [[:Category:German nobles by title]] so that untitled nobles can be categorised next to titled nobles.)
::[[User:Andejons|Andejons]] ([[User talk:Andejons|talk]]) 21:21, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
::* Hypothetically we might split the Swedish category to knights and esquires, the two classes, except that they are not defining characteristic at all, nor is "untitled" defining. The people in the Swedish category are described as nobility at best. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 19:36, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
::::"Untitled" defines the type of nobility to an adequate degree. However, if it is the word that is the problem, another solution would be to rename to e.g. "Spanish nobles", to separate people from the general topic.
::::[[User:Andejons|Andejons]] ([[User talk:Andejons|talk]]) 16:28, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 12:32, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* {{ping|Andejons}} ''in principle'' I would not object to "nobles", except ''in practice'' there aren't nobles by nationality categories while on the other hand the nobility categories are full of biographies. I think this particular objection may well be food for a separate nomination, but it should not be an obstruction to this nomination. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 22:56, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' The titled/untitled distinction is important and defining. Either delete the categories or leave them, but don't merge them. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 05:15, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Military personnel of the Napoleonic Wars from the Russian Empire ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''Forward merge''' [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 16:26, 24 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Military personnel of the Napoleonic Wars from the Russian Empire]] to [[:Category:Russian military personnel of the Napoleonic Wars]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' overlapping category [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 13:18, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
* '''Rather reverse merge''', as Russian Empire people will contain many non-Russian people too. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 17:44, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge as nom''' per the reasoning above. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 03:14, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' Merge which way?<br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 12:00, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
*'''Forward merge''' Regardless of whether Russia and the Russian Empire are the same, most entries in [[:Category:Military personnel of the Russian Empire by war]] use "Russian military personnel of X". –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:41, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:People from Van Nuys ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename'''. --[[User:Trialpears|Trialpears]] ([[User talk:Trialpears|talk]]) 18:25, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:People from Van Nuys]] to [[:Category:People from Van Nuys, Los Angeles]]
::* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Van Nuys]] to [[:Category:Van Nuys, Los Angeles]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Making it consistant with the names of similar categories which deal with people from neighborhoods in Los Angeles, California: i.e.: ''People from Echo Park, Los Angeles'', ''People from Studio City, Los Angeles'', etc., etc. -- [[User:Omnis Scientia|Omnis Scientia]] ([[User talk:Omnis Scientia|talk]]) 06:01, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
<div style="margin-left:0"><!-- NOTE: width renders incorrectly if added to main STYLE section -->
{| <!-- Template:Collapse top --> class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed " style="background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"
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! style="background: #{{main other|F0F2F5|CCFFCC}}; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:center; " | <div style="font-size:115%;margin:0 4em">copy of speedy discussion</div>   

|-
| style="border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: White;" |
*:'''Oppose'''. I've reverted the move of the parent article, the name is simply [[Van Nuys]] and that was the result of a consensus in a prior move discussion. &nbsp;&mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 11:20, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
*::The category name should be consistant with the names of the rest of the neighborhoods. Why should Van Nuys, Los Angeles be given special treatment? For example, Echo Park has no Los Angeles next to it but the category named after it does. And this is assuming that everyone should know where Van Nuys is when majority of people clearly don't. -- [[User:Omnis Scientia|Omnis Scientia]] ([[User talk:Omnis Scientia|talk]]) 11:30, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
*:Someone explain as to how I reopen this - I'd like to make the categories of LA neighborhood consistant. This isn't a discussion about the name of the main article which the "Oppose" seems to think. --[[User:Omnis Scientia|Omnis Scientia]] ([[User talk:Omnis Scientia|talk]]) 09:42, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
*::The above two categories are now at [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_October_19#Category:People_from_Van_Nuys|full discussion]]. [[User:Armbrust|Armbrust]] <sup>[[User talk:Armbrust|<span style="color: #E3A857;">The</span> <span style="color: #008000;">Homunculus</span>]]</sup> 09:46, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
{{cob}}
*I have added the parent category to this discussion. These were Speedily renamed in August, allowing [[WP:C2D]] to override C2C. This nomination would reverse that. There is no binding rule where C2C and C2D point in opposite directions, so it is up for discussion as to which is more helpful in each case.  – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color:#FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 07:21, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
*:Thanks. I tried the speedy change for both initially but the person who opposed it did so on a misunderstanding about name of the main article ([[Van Nuys]]) which doesn't have the ', Los Angeles' at the end. However, that does not apply to the categories' names which do have ', Los Angeles' since most people outside L.A. aren't familiar with Van Nuys. I thought it was a city initially, for example. So this change BACK to the initial name is to make it consistant with other categories and to avoid confusion. -- [[User:Omnis Scientia|Omnis Scientia]] ([[User talk:Omnis Scientia|talk]]) 09:14, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
* '''Rename''' as [[Van Nuys (disambiguation)]] exists. –[[User:Aidan721|Aidan721]] ([[User talk:Aidan721|talk]]) 14:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. The category names should match the article names. It's been determined at RM that this is primary topic for the name ''Van Nuys'', and therefore it's fine as it is. The consistency mentioned above can be achieved moving the other outliers such as Echo Park to also sit at the base name. &nbsp;&mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 21:51, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
*:There is a [[Van Nuys, Indiana]] so no. Van Nuys, Los Angeles is not a big city or even that prominent of a neighborhood. Few people outside L.A. know of it. [[User:Omnis Scientia|Omnis Scientia]] ([[User talk:Omnis Scientia|talk]]) 08:03, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
* '''Keep''' per Amakuru. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 23:23, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Rename''' per disambiguation. We use the place suffix anyway for most US populated places. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 03:17, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 18:01, 29 October 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* '''Rename''' per Aidan721. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:36, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 11:44, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
* Rename - the category name follows the article name unless there is ambiguity, which there is in this case. [[User:Perspicax|Perspicax]] ([[User talk:Perspicax|talk]]) 10:57, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Killings of politicians ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' '''Delete''' Despite the large number of comments they made here, Thinker78 has failed to convince anyone else of their position. On deleting vs. merging, the one person to specifically analyze merge vs. delete preferred deletion, and nobody else cared. [[User:Pppery|* Pppery *]] [[User talk:Pppery|<sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub>]] 02:41, 23 November 2023 (UTC)<!-- Template:Cfd top -->
{{Hatnote|Note to closer: There are other concurrent discussions all pertaining to [[:Category:Politicians by cause of death]] in which similar or the same arguments are being made.}}
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Killings of politicians]] to [[:Category:Politicians by cause of death]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Overlapping category [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 22:19, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
::* '''Oppose'''. Category:Politicians by cause of death is a container category and there are politicians who were killed but neither assassinated nor executed. According to a [[petscan:26273364|PetScan analysis]] there could be 2000 entries. Taking out inaccurate topics just by halving, maybe 1000. Regards,
::<span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 00:57, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
::I was taking a look again. Cause of death of politicians could be 
::#health issue, 
::#old age, 
::#{{tick}}animal attack, 
::#{{nayg}}insect or similar attack, 
::#{{tick}}accident,
::#{{tick}}natural phenomena,
::#{{tick}}suicide,
::#{{Yeag}}homicide (killings).
::The reason I created category as killings not homicide as its parent category is because I did not find online "homicide of politicians" nearly as much as common as "killings of politicians" but killings and homicide in this context seems to be a synonym. I can't find politicians victims of homicide with Ngram either. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 04:49, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
:::I think that I'm missing something here, because right now there's no need to isolate the killings categories from other notable causes of death. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 21:24, 31 October 2023 (UTC) 02:16, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Just delete''', [[:Category:Politicians by cause of death]] suffices. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:07, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' It seems currently as mostly unneeded containerization. The singular article in this category could be recategorized, or have category built for him (and others in similar circumstances, which should number a few more). Allowing for a container cat level removal. -- [[Special:Contributions/65.92.247.90|65.92.247.90]] ([[User talk:65.92.247.90|talk]]) 03:57, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
*<s>'''Rename to [[:Category:Non-targeted killings of politicians]]'''</s>, taking into account the previous points in this thread. Also, my intention when creating this category was to include politicians who were victims of homicide but were not assassinated, executed, among other categories. Regards,
::<span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 22:27, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
::'''Comment'''. I am working on the category as we speak, making some cleanup about the petscan query, which resulted downsizing possible entries to about 140. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 18:19, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
:::I am having issues finding pages because the intersection Homicide and Politicians in a [[petscan:26304780|PetScan query]] is not being useful because it brings too many unrelated pages. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 06:26, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
:'''Comment'''. I am adding entries to [Category:Politicians by cause of death] of deaths in addition and other than homicides. <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 23:11, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
::Request:I'd encourage you ({{ping|Thinker78}}) to slow down on creating more categories like this, until these discussions are resolved. Many of the same concerns keep popping up in your new categories as well.  [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 15:37, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:::I agree, I will stop creating categories under [Category:Politicians by cause of death] until these discussions are resolved. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 19:09, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 11:42, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
::'''Comment'''. Per [[WP:CATDEF]], reliable sources [https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C3&q=%22Killings+of+politicians%22&btnG= commonly and consistently] refer to killings of politicians. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 02:47, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
::* These sources mainly refer to assassinations, even when they use the word killings. You could have a point when you would propose to merge or rename all "assassinated" categories to "murdered" because sources are not carefully making that distinction. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 07:27, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
::*:At first I was trying to create the [[:Category:Politicians victims of homicide]] but then I saw that [Category:Killings of politicians] was having ngram entries so I decided for the latter. My effort started after finding out that [[Roy McGann]] was not assassinated but died after taking part in a shootout with rivals. My idea was to categorize politicians who were victims of homicide but did not fit in the available categories at the time, namely, assassinated, executed, duels. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 03:40, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge''' or '''Delete'''.  While it is interesting to have categories for violent deaths of politicians, trying to differentiate between killing, murders, assassinations, manslaughter, shootings etc. is just not efficient, because sources and editors won't follow with enough consistency. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 19:33, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
*:There are many categories, specially those that encompass ancient times of obscure subjects, that neither sources nor editors follow up on with consistency. Unless there is a guideline about that, I think that shouldn't be a reason to delete categories because there are niche subjects that would suffer as a result. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 00:54, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:George Platt Lynes ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. Both numbers and strength of arguments weigh in favor of deletion. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 00:11, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|George Platt Lynes}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''delete''' per [[WP:OCEPON]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 11:39, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
{{Cot|copy of speedy discussion}}
* [[:Category:George Platt Lynes]] to [[:Category:20th-century American photographers]]&nbsp;– C2F. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 14:11, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
** '''Oppose speedy''' There are also 4 files in the category outside the eponymous article, and thus C2F doesn't apply. [[User:Armbrust|Armbrust]] <sup>[[User talk:Armbrust|<span style="color: #E3A857;">The</span> <span style="color: #008000;">Homunculus</span>]]</sup> 19:22, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
{{Cob}}
: {{ping|Smasongarrison|Armbrust}} courtesy ping to contributors of speedy discussion. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 11:42, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Rename''' to [[:Category:Images by George Platt Lynes]], remove [[George Platt Lynes]] from the category & add it instead to the category description. I had orignially intended to add an article about the documentary about Lynes, {{ill|Hidden Master: The Legacy of George Platt Lynes|wd=Q119632644|short=y}} (2023). However, the film has not yet been in general release & has been only screened at film festivals. Once it has been released, I expect to see reviews & coverage that would establish its notability.
::There is a need for a category for the images because it would otherwise be difficult for readers to find the fair use images by Lynes. Due to the restrictions of fair use, these images are ''not'' displayed or addressed by the article. Thus, this is not a {{tq|category that covers exactly the same topic}} & [[WP:OCEPON]] does not apply because it is a content category (see [[WP:PROJCATS]]).  I therefore '''strongly oppose''' the outright deletion because of this structural need, but would support the renaming. [[User:Peaceray|Peaceray]] ([[User talk:Peaceray|talk]]) 14:45, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:::If {{u|Marcocapelle}} would agree to the renaming, I would [[WP:BOLDLY|boldy]] make the move without a redirect. [[User:Peaceray|Peaceray]] ([[User talk:Peaceray|talk]]) 14:50, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:::* That does not make sense either. [[:Category:Non-free biographical images]] is diffused by year, not by photographer. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 15:34, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:::*:How do you propose that we find non-free images by Lynes on enwiki then? [[User:Peaceray|Peaceray]] ([[User talk:Peaceray|talk]]) 20:33, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:::*:* They should pop up in "what links here" at the page of [[George Platt Lynes]]. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 21:23, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Really? Do you seriously think that the typical user would know to do that to find non-free images on enwiki? Do you honestly do that for yourself? [[User:Peaceray|Peaceray]] ([[User talk:Peaceray|talk]]) 01:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
*:'''Support''' per nom [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 15:29, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Non-free files are typically sorted by subject or work, not by author. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:45, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====Category:Fictional characters with animal abilities====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 22%23Category:Fictional characters with animal abilities]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Fictional characters who can morph animal or plant forms ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''selectively merge'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 12:21, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Fictional characters who can morph animal or plant forms]] to [[:Category:Fictional shapeshifters]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Clear [[WP:OVERLAPCAT]] with the category proposed as a target. The difference between animal/plant or human shapeshifters is trivial at best - what is most important is simply that they can change forms.  [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 09:23, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* If kept, split to [[:Category:Fictional characters who can morph animal forms]] and [[:Category:Fictional characters who can morph plant forms]] if they can specifically morph to either of the two. Characters who can morph to both and any forms should be moved to [[:Category:Fictional shapeshifters]] anyway. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 14:13, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*:{{ping|Marcocapelle}} There is already a [[:Category:Fictional therianthropes]] for that first one, so it's not necessary. The amount of fictional characters who can solely become plants is very small (perhaps nonexistent? Unsure) so a separate plant morpher category would fall under [[WP:SMALLCAT]].  [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 14:37, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*:* You are right, a [[:Category:Fictional characters who can morph plant forms]] is actually very unlikely. Then '''support merge'''. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 16:30, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' Rundown, based on article contents:
*:[[Aku (Samurai Jack)]]: Redirect to an article which describes the character as a shapeshifter, but provides no further detail
*:[[Jolen]]: Can transform into plants, and is already in [[:Category:Fictional characters with plant abilities]].
*:[[Jon Snow (character)]]: Article doesn't mention shapeshifting.
*:[[Bran Stark]]: Can transform into animals and plants.
*:[[Rickon Stark]]: Article doesn't mention shapeshifting.
*:[[Robb Stark]]: Article doesn't mention shapeshifting.
*:[[Frank Zhang]]: In the target section of the redirect, he is described as transforming into an animal, but it is unclear if he can transform into other things.
*:All others: Can transform into animals. Recommend placing into [[:Category:Fictional therianthropes]] while the rest are merged or purged.
*I will remove all the ones that don't mention shapeshifting. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 21:01, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
*:Per Laundry's suggestion, selectively '''merge''' any pages in this category concerning characters who exclusively shapeshift into animals under [[:Category:Fictional therianthropes]], then '''merge''' any remaining pages about shapeshifters who can turn into plants or other non-animal forms under [[:Category:Fictional shapeshifters]]. [[User:AHI-3000|AHI-3000]] ([[User talk:AHI-3000|talk]]) 08:01, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Soviet people of Russian descent ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. The only opposition centered on why the converse would be a defining category. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 00:04, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Soviet people of Russian descent}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''delete''', this has no added value since the majority of Soviet people was of Russian ethnicity. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 08:33, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:*'''Keep''': The non-Russian peoples played a significant role. Under the surface of the official Soviet identity ethnic identities were very important. Discrimination against non-Russian peoples included at least ethnic cleansing, maybe also genocide (see e.g. [[Holodomor]]). [[User:Rsk6400|Rsk6400]] ([[User talk:Rsk6400|talk]]) 09:03, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:* Yes, but this category isn't about ''non-Russian'' people. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 12:41, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Delete'''. Just as useless as ''German people of Prussian descent''. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 19:35, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====Category:Fictional mermen and mermaids====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 29%23Category:Fictional mermen and mermaids]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

====Category:Fictional harpies====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 19%23Category:Fictional harpies]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Fictional equestrians ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:46, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Fictional equestrians}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Delete per [[WP:NONDEF]] - it simply doesn't seem defining that any character listed in this category is a horse rider. I'm not going to say "ah, John Marston, the famous equestrian" - what's defining is that he is a cowboy. A textbook example of overcategorization.  [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 07:05, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::'''Oppose''' [[User:AHI-3000|AHI-3000]] ([[User talk:AHI-3000|talk]]) 20:12, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Delete''', these aren't fictional sportspeople. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 08:48, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' unless we can find some examples to categorize. There certainly ''are'' examples, like George Sherston in ''Memoirs of a Fox-hunting Man'' and [[Alec Ramsay]] (just created redirect) in ''[[The Black Stallion]]'', but I don't know of any with articles. I agree that cowboys and cavalryman both ride horses (so do knights), but aren't really part of equestrian fiction. [[User:Jahaza|Jahaza]] ([[User talk:Jahaza|talk]]) 20:23, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Fictional volleyball players ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge'''. There is no consensus on whether [[Sailor Venus]] should belong in the target category, but that can be resolved independently of the CfD. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:47, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Fictional volleyball players]] to [[:Category:Fictional sportspeople]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Created by blocked sock. This is a [[WP:SMALLCAT]] and is members should be merged into the male or female subcategories of [[:Category:Fictional sportspeople]], although I find it dubious whether it is defining for Sailor Venus.  [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 06:59, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge and purge''' per nom. [[Sailor Venus]] surely does not belong in fictional sportspeople. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 08:46, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Comment:''' not really a strong opinion here, just found it amusing to find this nomination sandwiched where it is: "fictional mermaids and mermen", "fictional harpies", "fictional volleyball players", "fictional centaurs", "fictional fauns".  I'm inclined to agree with including volleyball players among other groups of fantastic beasts.  No strong opinion about Sailor Venus, not having watched the anime, although the article suggests that inclusion in the category may be justified: if playing volleyball is one of a character's defining characteristics, then categorization as a fictional volleyball player makes sense.  [[User:P Aculeius|P Aculeius]] ([[User talk:P Aculeius|talk]]) 15:50, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====Category:Fictional centaurs====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 19%23Category:Fictional centaurs]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Fictional fauns ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 12:26, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Fictional fauns]] to [[:Category:Fictional human–animal hybrids]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Merge per [[WP:SMALLCAT]]. There is only one non-redirect article in the category and it is currently too small to be necessary. Tumnus can probably be dual merged into [[:Category:Fauns in popular culture]].  [[User:Zxcvbnm|ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ]] ([[User talk:Zxcvbnm|ᴛ]]) 06:50, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

* '''Merge''' per nom. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 08:42, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Lean oppose'''.  The size of the category makes this a better case than it was for harpies or centaurs, but I still think that specificity is good, and the category has potential for expansion.  I can't see any advantage to wading through dozens of entries for other fictional creatures looking for the few that are fauns—and the fact that there are currently two only makes that case stronger.  I know about Mr. Tumnus, but I'd never have found the other one in the category it's being lumped in with under this proposal.  Even though the category is currently small, it's very helpful to be able to find the exact kind of being you're looking for, and I see no advantages to the merge.  It's much more likely that readers will be searching for one or two specific types of creatures, than for a broad list of all fictional hybrids.  [[User:P Aculeius|P Aculeius]] ([[User talk:P Aculeius|talk]]) 15:43, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' with no opposition to recreate if necessary. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 19:54, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' with no prejudice against recreation if the category can be appropriately populated. <b style="font-family:Courier New;">[[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|<span style="color:#7D066B;">Blaster</span>]]</b><sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 13:15, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====60 Minutes categories====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 29%2360 Minutes categories]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

====2000s establishments in Yugoslavia====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 29%232000s establishments in Yugoslavia]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Laroche family ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''delete'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 23:56, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Laroche family]] to [[:Category:Dessalines family]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' small cat; only one member of the family (I added a redirect for his daughter). Merge into the larger political family he's related to. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 03:40, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* How are these families related? [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 05:18, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
*:Fair question. So [[Joseph Philippe Lemercier Laroche]]'s uncle is [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Cincinnatus Leconte|Cincinnatus Leconte]], who was the great-grandson of [[Jean-Jacques Dessalines]]. And as I spell this out, it's not actually clear to me if Laroche is related to the Dessalines... 🤷  [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 17:40, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Just delete''' per nom's further explanation. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:17, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />'''Relisting comment:''' Merge or delete? [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]], do you support deletion?<br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 05:46, 11 November 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
::'''support''' deletion [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 21:06, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
----
:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Luxembourgian expatriates by occupation ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:Luxembourgian expatriates]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Luxembourgian expatriates by occupation]] to [[:Category:Luxembourgian expatriates]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' one category in here, not helpful for navigation [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 04:15, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Similar cats exist for expatriates of other nations. There is an established category tree precedent. The creation of other sub-categories would be reasonable and could be easily populated. The nominator has made several poorly thought through nominations recently that has not considered category expansion and the way that topics intersect with larger established category trees.[[User:4meter4|4meter4]] ([[User talk:4meter4|talk]]) 06:21, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*:I considered exactly what you spelled out, but felt that that present state of the category with only one subcategory, the navigation costs were not worth the benefits. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 21:08, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Support for now''', it is not a large established tree at all, very few countries have a category like this. This vote is without prejudice to recreation of the category when a few more occupation subcategories are created that are reasonably well populated. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:27, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge''' per nom, without prejudice for recreation. At this step it is a useless layer. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 22:46, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Ballets by topic ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''keep'''. Category currently contains 4 subcategories. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:49, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Ballets by topic]] to [[:Category:Ballets]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Only one category, that doesn't help navigation [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 03:30, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Keep'''. It’s part of several larger category trees. Other stage works and/or narrative genres such as plays, operas, musicals, films, books, etc are sorted by topic. Additionally, there are many ballets (most of them) not sorted by topic as of yet so there is definitely room for expansion of sub cats. The answer here is to start creating more categories and populate them, not merge.[[User:4meter4|4meter4]] ([[User talk:4meter4|talk]]) 05:55, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* <s>'''Support for now''', this just makes navigation unnecessarily complicated</s>. This is without prejudice to recreation of the category when a few more topic subcategories are created and well populated. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:30, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Keep''' – That category is a ''de facto'' container category, it currently contains no articles. Up-merging would pollute that category. Otherwise, what 4meter4 said. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 13:50, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:* While the parent is the facto a container category, it will ''still'' be a container category after the merge, because the nominated category also contains no articles. So this is not a valid reason to oppose. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 14:21, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:::@Marcocapell. That isn't accurate. A merge removes the cat from the [[:Category:Works by topic]] tree, so it is a necessary container category with two parent articles in different cat structures. Additionally, I created several sub-cats prior to Michael Bednarek's post here. So it was a relevant container category at the time Michael made his comment. [[User:4meter4|4meter4]] ([[User talk:4meter4|talk]]) 14:50, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:::* It would not remove the content from the [[:Category:Works by topic]] tree because e.g. [[:Category:Ballets about war]] is still part of [[:Category:Works about warfare]]. I note that this discussion has become moot though. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 16:28, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:::*:And even though @[[User:4meter4|4meter4]] has assumed otherwise. I did look to ensure that the category wouldn't have been isolated. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 21:11, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Update'''.:@{{u|Marcocapelle}} and {{u|Mason}} I have now created several more sub cats so the reasoning behind this nom is no longer relevant. I know there are more ballets with articles that would fit under these topics. It's just a matter of hunting them down and further populating the cats. Ballet articles in general lack good categorization as both [[WP:WikiProject Dance]] and [[WP:WikiProject Ballet]] have been inactive for a long time and did not have many participants to begin with. This is a problem that should have been solved through '''''editing''''' and should never have been brought here.[[User:4meter4|4meter4]] ([[User talk:4meter4|talk]]) 14:28, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*:I appreciate your efforts. However, I disagree that it shouldn't have been brought here. Had it not been brought here, the category would have never been populated. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 21:10, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:Politicians killed in duels ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''keep''' [[:Category:Politicians killed in duels]], '''merge''' [[:Category:Politicians' accidental deaths]] to [[:Category:Accidental deaths]], and '''merge''' [[:Category:Politicians' deaths due to natural disasters]] to [[:Category:Deaths due to natural disasters]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> <b style="font-family:Courier New;">[[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|<span style="color:#7D066B;">Blaster</span>]]</b><sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 13:00, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
{{Hatnote|Note to closer: There are other concurrent discussions all pertaining to [[:Category:Politicians by cause of death]] in which similar or the same arguments are being made.}}

:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Politicians killed in duels]] to [[:Category:Duelling fatalities]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Politicians' accidental deaths]] to [[:Category:Accidental deaths]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Politicians' deaths due to natural disasters]] to [[:Category:Deaths due to natural disasters]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' This death has the same problem as the rest of the politician death categories [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_November_9#Category:Politicians'_deaths_due_to_animal_attacks], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_October_29#Category:Killings_of_politicians]. The intersection is not defining [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 03:20, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''keep ''' the duels category; as that has RS and is a notable intersection. '''Merge''' the rest per nom.[[User:4meter4|4meter4]] ([[User talk:4meter4|talk]]) 06:06, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*:what does RS mean in the context? @[[User:4meter4|4meter4]] [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 21:16, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge''' at least the accidental deaths and natural disasters, per nom and 4meter4. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:33, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Overly strict interpretation of guideline. 1. Per [[WP:GUIDES|Guideline]]: "Editors should attempt to follow guidelines, though they are best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply." 2. Although [[WP:COPDEF]] states, "Biographical articles should be categorized by defining characteristics", at the same time it states, "not everything a celebrity does after becoming famous warrants categorization". Dying in a certain way is certainly something that warrants categorization if there are a number of minimum entries. It is one of the most crucial events in a person's life. 3. Per [[WP:PARENTCAT]], "an article should be categorised under the most specific branch in the category tree possible".<p>Examples of defining characteristics in the categories at hand,
#[[Burr–Hamilton duel]] -notable death in duel
#[[Death and state funeral of Lech and Maria Kaczyński]] -notable accidental death
#[[Beatriz de la Cueva]] -notable death in natural disaster
:Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 06:48, 11 November 2023 (UTC) 20:14, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::No one is disputing that the manner of death is defining. The question is about whether the intersection adds something unique. Like why is it important to know that someone who is a politician died in an accident (A*B), more than that they were a politician and that they died in a accident (A) + (B).  [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 21:16, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:::See my PARENTCAT entry in my previous comment. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 21:59, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::::I don't see how Parent category is relevant here. The question is whether the intersection is meaningful. None of those examples address anything about how the notability of the death manner interacts with the fact that the person is a politician. There needs to be added value. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 03:52, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::You want the categories to be merged to a less specific parent category. That's how PARENTCAT is relevant here. As I stated previously, I do believe the intersection is meaningful enough. I don't see how you come to your conclusion that "none of those examples address anything about how the notability of the death manner interacts with the fact that the person is a politician". I have the opposite impression. I guess each mind is its own world. 
:::::Burr and Hamilton were both politicians and their duel was due to their political differences. Lech Kaczynski was a politician, president of Poland at the time of his death in a very notable air crash. Beatriz de la Cueva was a Guatemalan politician who was named governor who died in a very notable natural disaster that is taught in elementary school in Guatemala. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 20:38, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::For me, I've been convinced by the dueling example, as was able to find many similar examples. So I appreciate that. 
::::::However, I don't see how a death in a plane crash for a politician is uniquely distinctive. Would any equally sudden death (like via a heart attack) have a different impact on politics? 
::::::I don't think so for either the aircrash or the natural disaster. I can see it for an assassination like Shinzo Abe, or a suicide.  But I really don't see how an alternative, albeit less exciting death would have a different impact for a politician who died in an airplane crash. It's disruptive because the politician is dead, not because of the nature of their death.  
::::::I don't think that parent category is a useful argument here, because you're effectively arguing that the category exists therefore we should use it. But the question is whether the category should exist. If we applied it like you're wanting, it would be impossible to delete a category. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 22:41, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::I think it is reasonable to categorize politicians by cause of death, reagardless if it was in line of duty or not. For that there is the [[:Category:Line of duty deaths]]. I think that per [[WP:CATDEF]] reliable sources commonly and consistently refer to causes of death of politicians, unless for privacy reasons or lack of knowledge among other reasons they don't. 
:::::::Also, local politicians who don't have the recognition of say Abraham Lincoln are likely to have much less information about them. But this doesn't mean they shouldn't have the same categorization principle of globally notable personalities. Regards, <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:0 7px;background:orange">[[User:Thinker78|<span style="color:white">'''Thinker78'''</span>]]</span> [[User talk:Thinker78|(talk)]] 23:59, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

*I'm inclined to '''keep''' the duels one and merge the other two; because a ''politician'' engaged in a duel feels more defining than other manners of death, and would likely have more impact or repurcussions than a natural disaster. [[User:Edward-Woodrow|Edward-Woodrow]] ([[User talk:Edward-Woodrow|talk]]) 18:06, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====Category:Songs about black people====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 29%23Category:Songs about black people]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Murals by topic ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''keep'''. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 03:46, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Murals by topic]] to [[:Category:Murals]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Upmerge as this only has one category in it that doesn't help navigation [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 02:45, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::I created this cat fairly recently, other cats can be created for it easily enough. All of the other murals are either undiffused in [[:Category:Murals by city]] or [[:Category:Murals by country]], having a topic container is necessary for parity with the parent cat on paintings and is pretty par for the course for artwork cats. [[User:Orchastrattor|Orchastrattor]] ([[User talk:Orchastrattor|talk]]) 03:14, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:::Ok, that makes sense. I think that if you added some very common subjects, modeled off of other categories like: "Category:Paintings by subject", that would be sufficient and helpful in encouraging others to contribute. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 03:29, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

====Category:Britons who died as children====
[[File:Symbol move vote.svg|16px|link=|alt=]] '''Relisted''', see [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 19%23Category:Britons who died as children]]<!-- Template:Cfd relisted -->

==== Category:Medical-related conspiracy theories ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''rename''' to [[:Category:Health-related conspiracy theories]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> <b style="font-family:Courier New;">[[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|<span style="color:#7D066B;">Blaster</span>]]</b><sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 00:30, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:Medical-related conspiracy theories]] to [[:Category:Medicine-related conspiracy theories]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' Ungrammatical name. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 02:30, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Keep'''. I am not seeing a grammatical error here. Additionally the proposed change is problematic; at least in terms of US English. In America, medicine is typically understood to mean drugs specifically whereas “medical” is a broader term that can refer to medical practices/treatments not involving drugs. I don’t think the proposed change would accurately reflect the category content; at least not in relation to US English.[[User:4meter4|4meter4]] ([[User talk:4meter4|talk]]) 06:34, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* Perhaps circumvent med entirely and rename to [[:Category:Healthcare-related conspiracy theories]]. Just a suggestion. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:49, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::I’m not sure that would work either as some of these conspiracy theories are not about the treatment of disease but the origin of disease. (Such as China manufactured Covid-19 as a biological weapon; or HIV was a man made virus, etc.) None of that is “healthcare” related but it is “medical” related.[[User:4meter4|4meter4]] ([[User talk:4meter4|talk]]) 07:16, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:::'''Comment'''. How about Health-related conspiracy theories? [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 04:10, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
::::That would work.[[User:4meter4|4meter4]] ([[User talk:4meter4|talk]]) 07:31, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
::::* That is a quick consensus then. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 08:13, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

*'''Support alt rename''' to [[:Category:Health-related conspiracy theories]], or, as an alt-alt, [[:Category:Healthcare-related conspiracy theories]]. [[User:Edward-Woodrow|Edward-Woodrow]] ([[User talk:Edward-Woodrow|talk]]) 18:04, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:People in Australian law ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:Australian jurists]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 00:13, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose renaming''' [[:Category:People in Australian law]] to [[:Category:Australian legal professionals]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' rename to make it clearer that people in the category are Australian nationals. (alternatively this could be merged to Australian people by occupation) [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 01:21, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge''', Australia is the only country with a category like this and it does not seem worthwhile to build a whole tree on this concept (considering that Australia is one of the better covered countries in en.wp). If kept, rename per nom. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:55, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' to [[:Category:Australian jurists]], due to overlapping scope and to match other subcategories of [[:Category:Jurists]]. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 17:54, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' to [[:Category:Australian jurists]], per LaundryPizza03. It is unlikely that ''legal amateurs'' will get notoriety in significant numbers to make a difference between the two notions. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 07:46, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>

==== Category:I-Kiribati expatriates by occupation ====
<div class="boilerplate cfd vfd xfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background:#bff9fc; margin:0 auto; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #AAAAAA;">
:''The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''

:''The result of the discussion was:'' <!-- Template:Cfd top --> '''merge''' to [[:Category:I-Kiribati expatriates]]. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:Edward-Woodrow|Edward-Woodrow]] ([[User talk:Edward-Woodrow|talk]]) 18:02, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:I-Kiribati expatriates by occupation]] to [[:Category:I-Kiribati expatriates]]
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' only one category in here, that doesn't help navigation [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 00:39, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge''' per nom. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 06:55, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge''' per nom. [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|talk]]) 22:48, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
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:''The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion.  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section.''</div>