Talk:Otomat

Funnily enough, seen that OTOMAT comes from a parithetic joint venture of OTO Melara and Matra, the missiles could have been called differently, ex. MAT-OTO, but this resembled too much the italian word MATTO, that means Mad, crazy.--Stefanomencarelli 09:53, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Copyedit needed

I'm going to take a guess that this was converted from a French or Italian version of the same page in that language. Dotation is an obsolete word in the English language and I had to look it up as a native English speaker. Installation is what you are looking for there. While not incorrect many of the phrases here are very strange. I'd like to look at copy editing this article if it would not offend. Tirronan 14:59, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

And i like to collaborate. Can you check the stuff that you don't like/understand and make me aware, ex. posting here, so having the original sources i can try to improving it?--Stefanomencarelli 15:11, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Collaboration is the name of the game here and you are most welcome to do so. Dotation in English could be applied here but it really is about investments towards a marriage in earlier times. Instead of Dotation I would use the word Installation having a more mechanical context which would be more relevent here. Tirronan 18:44, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

1st correction

This missile born with a first program of development started in 1967, when the world was taken of surprise by the sinking of Eilat, due the impact of three P-15 Termit anti-ship missiles, fired by two Komar gunships. This happened in October, and not in June during the Six day war, as often reported[1]. In every case, it's not known if the contract for the OTOMAT was made before the Eilat sinking, but the year was the same when many navies discovered how dangerous were the anti-ship weapons like Styx, already operative by nine years. Tirronan 18:53, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Suggested rewrite

The Otomat missle program began in 1967 when the world was taken by suprise by the sinking of the Israeli Destroyer Eilat by the impact of 3 P-15 Termit anit-ship missiles fired by two Komar Patrol Missile boats. This happened in October of of 1967 (not in June as often reported). While it is unknown if the Otomat program was started before the Eilat event, every country became aware of just how dangerous the 9 year old P-15 Termit (NATO Designation STYX) missile was. Tirronan 18:53, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Alternative rewrite

The Otomat missile program started in 1967, the same year of the sinking of the Israeli destroyer Eilat by three P-15 Termit anti-ship missiles. Although it is not known whether the program began before or after the Eilat sinking, this event created worldwide awareness about the capabilities of such missiles.

I think we should stick to info directly related to the Otomat program instead of wandering off into interesting but unrelated matters such as the true date of the Eilat's sinking. --Victor12 19:15, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

agreed. Tirronan 19:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

2nd paragraph

While Aerospatiale developed the indigenous Exocet, even if based on a German design , taht was also the anchestor of MBB Kormoran, Oto-Melara started a cooperation with Matra, the other big French missile builder. The full development started in 1969. Already in these early years Matra was paritetic involved, and both MMI and MN were interested on this new weapon, different respect Exocet for a more capable and costly turbine-jet instead of a full rocket propulsion system. The trials started in 1971 with some experimental launches, but soon a missile was launched and hit a naval target on 28 February 1972. The missile's development was officially ended in 1974.

suggested rewrites? Tirronan 19:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

---

Well Victor(from Key Publishing forum?),

1967 was a very interesting year for anti-ship missiles, so i don't rate unrelated at all the eventually born of OTOMAT as 'effect' given by Eilat sinking. It' unclear if the born of Exocet and Otomat was related or not to this battle, but this surely boosted the interest for these programs, and the next yers no less than five different missiles: Exocet, OTOMAT, Harpoon, Gabriel and Kormoran were put in service. While it's unclear if the 'start' was due to this event (surely not for Kormoran), there is no doubt that Styx acted a strong 'dimostration' about the power of anti-ship missiles.

Noticeable that already several of them were availables, but nobody cared: They were either SS-12 mini-missiles, fair but a bit weak, or URSS powerful but mysterious weapons. After this 'display' western world navies raised a lot their interest on this costly weapons.

So the whole history of anti-ship missiles, included OTOMAT, could had been a lot different without Eilat sinking, this is why i included this event in the description about OTOMAT origins.

Moreover, there is another reason. Eilat sinking was often dated during Six day war. While there is no problem either to rely this to the heavy 'cold war' between Israel and arabs, Six day war happened in June, while Eilat was sunk in October. Definitively, not in Six day war.

I have hoverauled the article, expecially reorganized the stuff in a more related manner. Now that i done my best i'll wait for eventual further suggestions. --Stefanomencarelli 19:52, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Nope, not from Key publishing. As for the sinking, the event in itself is important and my rewrite proposal acknowledges that. However sentences such as This happened in October, and not in June during the Six day war, as often reported. are not relevant to the Otomat article, you could just mention that it was in October 1967 and link to the relevant article, in this case HMS Zealous (R39). As for improvements, the article needs massive copyediting to improve its prose. Also, could you add page numbers to inline citations? --Victor12 20:05, 27 October 2007 (UTC)