Talk:16:10 aspect ratio

Aspect ratios

Ratios should be presented in lowest-common-denominator form. Therefore the aspect ratio you called "16:10" is actually "8:5". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Criffer (talk • contribs) 18:47, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but due to the 16:9 aspect ratio it was much easier to market as 16:10. 86.3.111.41 (talk) 14:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Since 8:5 isn't used by anyone, should it be mentioned? - Gunnar Guðvarðarson (My Talk) 00:56, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

16:10 is usually mentioned as 16:10 and should also have that name in this article. Criffers talk about "should be presented in lowest-common-denominator form" is his fiction. There is no such rule./Urklistre (talk) 06:47, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Translation Complete

I've finished the translation of this page. Thanks for letting me work :P --Kraftlos (talk) 06:39, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Speedy Deletion

The criteria for speedy deletion says: Transwikied articles. Any article that either consists only of a dictionary definition or that has been discussed at Articles for deletion with an outcome to move it to another wiki, after it has been properly moved and the author information recorded.

This is not merely a dictionary defnition and will eventually tie into a lot of other articles. I'm of course going to add to it after I translate the useful parts.

I just put this page and it doesn't link to anything yet. I'm not a member of any translation group so I am not aware of any transwiki space to place this in. Its not a very long article, and the French in this article isn't very complicated. I should be done with it very soon. Give me a little time. --Kraftlos (talk) 01:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

"Citation Needed" in quote

There's a citation needed mark put inside a quote from someone from NEC, but the quote itself has a source marked on it. Shouldn't this be removed? 86.3.111.41 (talk) 14:21, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

History of 16:10 standard

Since the 16:10 standard is rather close to the 16:9 it would be interesting to read about the motivation to pass a 16:10 standard because my guess is that such displays were produced after the 16:9 standard had already been passed. What marketing and production aspects were involved here at what times? --Section6 (talk) 11:18, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Lies with a source?

In the article: 16:9 products provide higher resolution and wider aspect ratio. How the hell does aspect ration affect resolution? If anything, in this specific case of a comparison of 16:10 and 16:9, an argument could be made that 16:9 are /LOWER/ resolution. There is a citation, from a press release, that doesn't give any explanation either. It needs a better reference, or deletion.

Absolutely right 84.114.187.194 (talk) 01:53, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Strongly agree. The statement should be removed. It's not logical and misleading. --129.7.147.112 (talk) 21:10, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

It is sourced material from reliable source so definitely should not be removed. I dont find it strange either as mostly 16:9 products have higher resolution. /Jelo678 (talk) 11:54, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Very good source. Dont delete! "DisplaySearch is a leading global market research and consulting firm specializing in the display supply chain and providing trend information" http://www.displaysearch.com/cps/rde/xchg/displaysearch/hs.xsl/about.asp /Marararararara (talk) 05:57, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually, no, because that source is too promotional of 16:9.Jasper Deng (talk) 19:36, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Just because you find something promotional doesnt mean that it is. What is your source for that claim? Wiki couldnt be written if we would listen to subjective stuff like yours. Wiki is about confirmed sources so you easily can see where the info comes from.

/GuinnessBT (talk) 03:19, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

A company with specific interest in the subject is not a reliable third party source, and definitely should not be used for strong claims like this. Riagu (talk) 20:30, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

All sources have specific interests. If you have sources that claim something else then show it but dont delete sourced text. If you watch the development it is a fact that the resolution has increased since the 16:10 days. http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=17

Our job is not to mindlessly repeat what a source says, but also make some kind of judgement on whether that information is factually correct or not. In this case, the move from 16:10 to 16:9 did not increase the number of pixels per square inch, but it did increase the total number of pixels in the average screen from 1280x800 (1024000 total) to 768x1366 (1049088 total), so there was a 2.5% increase in the number of pixels. So the claim is factually correct. The problem is that those extra pixels were not useful for most computer users, since it transfered them from vertical space which is critically important for reading documents and top-down computing to horizontal space, which is only useful for entertainment activities like viewing movies and gaming. I think that this article needs a section about the criticisms of the move to 9:16 and how business oriented laptops (such as Latitudes and Thinkpads) resisted the switch to 16:9 for longer than normal laptops, because their users generally demand taller screens for their types of work rather than wider screens which are generally used for entertainment purposes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amosbatto (talk • contribs) 14:56, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, read net market share to see how the resolution has increased. http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=17 As you say. The article may be complimented but we shall not delete facts. /Urklistre (talk) 09:36, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

All that chart shows is that in most cases 16:9 resolutions are more common than the respective 16:10 resolutions (1600x900 being the exception). Compared to the same chart from 2009, high resolutions have only gained a couple of percentage points, but overall still hover around ~10% of the market. At the same time, the three lowest standard resolutions for each aspect ratio (1024x768, 1280x800 and 1366x768, for 4:3, 16:10 and 16:9, respectively) make up ~40% of the market.

At any rate, it's one thing to claim that "displays in 2012 have higher resolutions than displays n years ago", and a completely different thing to claim that "displays in 2012 have higher resolutions than displays n years ago thanks to the move to 16:9". Correlation does not imply causation and all that. The latter might actually be impossible to prove conclusively, unless you have access to an alternate universe where the move to 16:9 never happened. Indrek (talk) 15:26, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

That is irrelevant for the subject because it isnt said so in the article. /Urklistre (talk) 16:58, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes it is. Quote: "16:9 products provide higher resolution". It's equivalent to claiming that "products have higher resolutions thanks to the move to 16:9". Indrek (talk) 17:08, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Monitors have higher resolution now than 2009 which make your post totally pointless./Urklistre (talk) 20:38, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

"Monitors have higher resolution now than 2009" Do you have any evidence to support that statement?

"which make your post totally pointless" Just because you failed to see the point doesn't mean there isn't any. Indrek (talk) 21:14, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Stop trolling. I allready gave you the link./Urklistre (talk) 21:55, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm not trolling. I already explained why that link doesn't show that monitors in 2012 have higher resolutions than in 2009, much less that something like that would be thanks to the move to 16:9 aspect ratios (which is what the article is claiming and what this discussion is about). If you'd like to dispute my explanation and offer a counterargument, please do so properly, instead of simply ignoring my points and resorting to ad hominem attacks (see also WP:PERSONAL). Indrek (talk) 22:17, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Your investigations are irrelevant for the thread. We don't do own research. The question is what caused the transition from 16:10 to 16:9. Displaysearch has made research to answer the question which is written about in the article. If you have any sources on the same subject please post those in the article./Urklistre (talk) 05:29, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

A bit hypocritical, don't you think? Seeing as you're the one who started doing OR by inferring things from that NetMarketshare chart. But fair enough - both of our investigations are irrelevant. Here's some investigation by someone else that might be more relevant. I've also expanded the section to be more than just a copy&paste from that DisplaySearch report, as well as added references to opposing opinions. Indrek (talk) 09:03, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

It is good that you write about those subjects. However stay away from subjective comments like "vertical pixels are more important than horizontal pixels for productivity."./Urklistre (talk) 15:13, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

It is good that you're concerned about the quality of the article. However don't assume everything you don't agree with is a subjective comment and should be removed. Those statements that you keep deleting are taken directly from the cited sources. Indrek (talk) 15:19, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

It still is a subjective comment no matter if it is sourced or not. If I find 3 sources that claims that blue is more beautiful than red. Does that mean that blue is more beautiful than red?

Unless there are research behind statements it is just opinions.

/Urklistre (talk) 15:24, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Remember that Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion is verifiability, not truth. If you have a problem with the references, then say so, but arguing that the statements are subjective just because you disagree with them is unconstructive.

Also, if you have three sources saying blue is more beautiful than red and that is relevant to the article at hand, then reporting that some people believe blue is more beautiful than red would be perfectly acceptable. Just like in the current article it's perfectly acceptable to report that some people believe 16:10 is better, because the refs clearly prove it.

So, once again, please stop removing statements that are clearly backed by existing references, and focus your attention on parts of the article in actual need of improvement (like the tablet and mobile phone sections you recently added). Indrek (talk) 15:31, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Just show the research or back off. People say different opinions everyday so your style would mean endless editwars on wikipedia. If some people say something doesnt mean that it is. /Urklistre (talk) 15:38, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

What research? Every single statement in that section is backed by the existing references. Again, if you have a problem with the references, then say so. If not, then kindly stop removing that content. Indrek (talk) 15:42, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

You need to understand one thing. Your sources show that some people thinks that vertical pixels is more important than horizontal pixels for productivity. Nothing else. /Urklistre (talk) 15:45, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

And you need to understand that that's exactly what the article is (or was, before your edit warring) reported. Nothing else. Indrek (talk) 15:48, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

I quote you: "productivity-oriented tasks (such as Internet browsing, editing documents or spreadsheets, and using professional design or engineering applications), which benefit more from vertical resolution, rather than horizontal." You claim that those tasks enefit more from vertical resolution, rather than horizontal but opinions isnt enough for such claim./Urklistre (talk) 15:51, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

If you think the wording was ambiguous, then you could well have suggested a better one. Removing information that was clearly backed by the references and relevant to the subject was not an acceptable course of action. Indrek (talk) 15:54, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

The information wasnt backed up by references. It is no information. It is opinions./Urklistre (talk) 15:58, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

There's no rule against reporting on opinions, if those opinions come from reliable sources (which they do) and are relevant to the subject matter (which they are). So you were still reporting referenced, relevant information. Indrek (talk) 16:01, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

No, there is no such rule. The problem with your text was that you claimed that the opinions were facts./Urklistre (talk) 16:03, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

No I didn't. Perhaps you misread the text, or perhaps it was ambiguous. In either case, your choosing to start an edit war over what could have been resolved amicably on the talk page was not acceptable behaviour.

In order to bring this dispute to a close, I've amended the original text to remove the possible ambiguity. The new version should leave no doubt that the opinion being reported on is that of the cited sources, not of me (or any other editor). I hope you find it more to your liking. If not, kindly propose an improved version rather than simply removing the content again. Indrek (talk) 16:09, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Per an AN3 report, I have protected the page for 48 hours. I see there's a discussion here, and I'd like you to discuss without reverting. Should the matter be resolved before the 48 hours is up, let me know and I'll unprotect it. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:37, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

@Inderek you start to get tiresome. Constantly you write opinions as facts. "which are considered to benefit more from vertical resolution, rather than horizontal." another biased line from you. Just because some people consider that doesnt mean that it is considered. Your bias starts to get really irritating. Of course I will correct this sentence in 48 hours.

"The shift from 16:10 to 16:9 has been met with a mixed response. While the lower cost of 16:9 computer displays, along with the convenience of having the same aspect ratio in different devices, has been seen as a positive,[3] some consider 16:10 more suitable for productivity-oriented tasks (such as Internet browsing, editing documents or spreadsheets, and using professional design or engineering applications)."

Could we agree on this and end this farse?

/Urklistre (talk) 17:46, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

"Just because some people consider that doesnt mean that it is considered" That's exactly what it means.

The references show that the people whose opinion the disputed paragraph represents believe that productivity-oriented tasks (like the ones listed in the paragraph) benefit from vertical resolution more than horizontal, and therefore 16:10 is more suited for these tasks than 16:9. If you still don't believe me, I'll quote several of the references below (emphasis mine in all cases):

• "Browsing the Internet for example usually benefits from more height than width /---/ The same is true for word processing" [1]
• "For movie editing the extra vertical resolution of the 16:10 display has benefits" [2]
• "I have a widescreen laptop. It's the Lenovo ThinkPad T61 Widescreen. It comes with a 14.1-inch widescreen but has a 16:10 aspect ratio. Its extra inch of height is vitally important to me." [3]
• "We have things like the menubar and Dock taking up screen space at the top and bottom of the display. Go to a 16:9 display, and you have no room for them when you're working with HD content. I think that's a compelling argument for not going 16:9 for computer displays." [4]
• "most of the content [PC users] work with, whether documents, spreadsheets, or web pages, is either vertical or, in some cases, squarish shaped." [5]

Therefore saying that productivity-oriented tasks "are considered to benefit more from vertical resolution, rather than horizontal" is not subjective or biased because it accurately represents the opinion of the cited sources, as evidenced by the quoted statements above. And, since pretty much every cited source states this in some form or other, it follows that this is an important opinion that a number of people share, and therefore should be reported if the paragraph is to be unbiased.

Once again, if you disagree with the reliability of the sources, then say so. If you think the reason some people prefer 16:10 over 16:9 has nothing to do with the extra vertical resolution (with what, then?), then produce sources that prove that. But please don't keep shooting down an accurate and relevant piece of information as "subjective" and "biased". Indrek (talk) 18:42, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

They are just some people that consider those tasks to benefit more from vertical resolution, rather than horizontal. There opinion isnt more valid than mine or yours. They are no experts.

so change to "which by some people are considered to benefit more from vertical resolution, rather than horizontal."/Urklistre (talk) 20:05, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Paper Size

There should also be a section about paper sizes with 16:10 Aspect ratio. Here are mentioened in Paper size article:

Junior Legal = 203 mm × 127 mm Index card = 203 mm × 127 mm Index card = 127 mm × 76 mm

Other sizes are welcomed. --129.7.147.112 (talk) 21:09, 15 November 2011 (UTC)