User talk:Donner60

Please put comments or questions on new subjects at the very bottom of the page, use a new section heading, refer to the exact title of an article and sign your message with four tildes. That will help me to see that there is something new on the page and will point me to the right article and person to be concerned with. This will allow me to reply faster. Thank you. Donner60 (talk) 02:49, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Due to Real life, I may be online less often or for shorter periods of time than usual or working on less time-consuming matters for the near future. If I expect to be offline for more than 3 or 4 days, I will try to post a notice concerning the expected time away. Donner60 (talk) 06:58, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

New messages, questions, comments: Put at very bottom of page, see text of this section

Please put new messages at the very bottom of the page. Thanks. Donner60 (talk) 08:39, 13 December 2012 (UTC) To clarify, the new item should not be below this message and not below the repeated message after my introductory paragraphs but at the very bottom of the page after every other item on the page. It will help me to understand what you are talking about to add a section heading, identify the article you are concerned with (if your question or comment refers to a specific article), using a link, probably putting the article title in the heading, and sign your edit with four tildes (~~~~) so I know to whom to reply. Keep an eye on this page because I may just reply here if the answer is simple and does not seem to be time sensitive. When I notice an out of order question or comment, I will move it to the bottom of the page and provide a heading if there is none already. Donner60 (talk) 22:32, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia policies, guidelines; twitter, facebook; what Wikipedia is not; avoiding common mistakes

References to Wikipedia policies, guidelines, instructions, include:
Wikipedia:Manual of Style. Wikipedia guidelines on twitter, facebook: Wikipedia:Twitter. Wikipedia guidelines, policies on external links: Wikipedia:External links. See Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, which includes not a dictionary, a publisher of original thought, a soapbox or means of promotion, a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files, a blog, Web hosting service, social networking service, or memorial site, a directory, a manual, guidebook, textbook, or scientific journal, a crystal ball, a newspaper, or an indiscriminate collection of information. • Wikipedia:Verifiability. • Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. • Wikipedia:No original research. • Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. • Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. • Wikipedia:Citing sources. • Wikipedia:Notability. • Wikipedia:Image use policy. • Wikipedia:Avoiding common mistakes. • Wikipedia:Vandalism. • Wikipedia:Categorization#Articles. • Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Islam-related articles.

User Talk page guidelines

Excerpts Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines#User talk pages While the purpose of article talk pages is to discuss the content of articles, the purpose of user talk pages is to draw the attention or discuss the edits of a user. Wikipedia is not a social networking site, and all discussion should ultimately be directed solely toward the improvement of the encyclopedia.

Users may freely remove comments from their own talk pages, though archiving is preferred. They may also remove some content in archiving. The removal of a warning is taken as evidence that the warning has been read by the user. This specifically includes both registered and unregistered users.

There are certain types of notices that users may not remove from their own talk pages, such as declined unblock requests and speedy deletion tags. See Wikipedia:User pages#Removal of comments, notices, and warnings for full details.

User talk pages are subject to the general userpage guidelines on handling inappropriate content—see Wikipedia:User pages#Handling inappropriate content.

• Personal talk page cleanup: On your own user talk page, you may archive threads at your discretion. Simply deleting others' comments on your talk page is permitted, but most editors prefer archiving.

From the section Editing comments, Other's comments in Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines:

• Fixing format errors that render material difficult to read. In this case, restrict the edits to formatting changes only and preserve the content as much as possible. Examples include fixing indentation levels, removing bullets from discussions that are not consensus polls or requests for comment (RfC), fixing list markup, using <nowiki> and other technical markup to fix code samples, and providing wikilinks if it helps in better navigation.
• Fixing layout errors: This could include moving a new comment from the top of a page to the bottom, adding a header to a comment not having one, repairing accidental damage by one party to another's comments, correcting unclosed markup tags that mess up the entire page's formatting, accurately replacing HTML table code with a wikitable, etc.
• Sectioning: If a thread has developed new subjects, it may be desirable to split it into separate discussions with their own headings or subheadings. When a topic is split into two topics, rather than sub-sectioned, it is often useful for there to be a link from the new topic to the original and vice versa. A common way of doing this is noting the change at the [then-]end of the original thread, and adding an unobtrusive note under the new heading, e.g., :<small>This topic was split off from [[#FOOBAR]], above.</small>. Some reformatting may be necessary to maintain the sense of the discussion to date and to preserve attribution. It is essential that splitting does not inadvertently alter the meaning of any comments. very long discussions may also be divided into sub-sections.

Note that it is proper to use <nowiki> and other technical markup to fix code samples.

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Please put messages, questions or comments at the very bottom of the page'. If you put them here (immediately before or after this paragraph), as some people have done, I may either not see them or more likely not see them very promptly. That will delay any reply from me to you. To clarify, your message, question or comment should not be immediately below this message but at the very bottom of the page after every other item on the page. It will help me to understand what you are talking about to add a section heading, identify the article you are concerned with, and use a link, (if your question or comment refers to a specific article), probably putting the article name in the heading, and sign your edit with four tildes (~~~~) so I know to whom to reply. Keep an eye on this page because I may just reply here if the answer is simple and does not seem to be time sensitive. Usually I will reply on your talk page and may note that reply on this page. If you do not get a reply on your talk page, check back here. I may put brief replies here, especially if they do not seem urgent. If you have a user name, I will try to remember to ping you if I just leave a return message here. When I notice a question or comment that was not placed at the bottom of the page, I will move it to the bottom of the page and provide a heading if there is not already a heading. Donner60 (talk) 22:32, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

If you put a question or comment on this page but not at 'the bottom of the page despite the above request, and can not find it, I have moved it to the bottom of the page with an appropriate heading if there was none. If your edit was disruptive, vandalism or abuse, and you do not find the edit, it is because I have deleted it. In most cases, I will also put another warning on your talk page. Donner60 (talk) 11:17, 19 February 2016 (UTC) ..................….

Disambiguation link and bracket bot notifications

I occasionally get one of these notices. I fix the link or bracket, then delete the message, as the messages state is permissible, instead of further cluttering up these pages. Donner60 (talk) 05:13, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
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Re: Adam

I believed that the reference to the Abrahamic creation myth later in the article warranted Adam's status as a mythical figure. It's fairly unimportant at this stage; no worries on this end. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.104.181.237 (talk) 04:46, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Reply on your talk page with helpful Wikipedia policy and guideline page links. Donner60 (talk) 04:59, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

George Weigel

The edits I made were not negative but were factual and direct quotes from articles written by Weigel himself, since much of the content on the page is sourced to material he's produced, published by the National Review. I don't understand why unsourced personal opinions clearly written by Weigel himself can remain intact but the sourced statements I've made cannot.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hereisnowhy (talk • contribs) 02:36, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

No they are not. They are your negative interpretations of his opinion, not necessarily a fact. I would say the same thing if your interpretation was the opposite. Wikipedia has strict policies against such statements in Wikipedia's voice. Wikipedia does not publish negative assertions which could be interpreted as libel. See Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. Also see Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, Wikipedia is not a soapbox and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Wikipedia is not a blog or forum. If you wish to put the article up for deletion, you must proceed under the procedures shown in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. For criteria, see: Wikipedia:Deletion policy. Also, be sure your are familiar with Wikipedia:Notability before you make a nomination for deletion. Donner60 (talk) 02:53, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

If you read the articles that I've cited you will see that he openly rebukes gay marriage and blatantly makes statements that I've quoted without any editing, the only thing I could see being misconstrued as bias is me suggesting that what he said is homophobic. He absolutely and in no uncertain terms states that the gay rights movement is a front for regression in sexual morality, that it is destructive to the morality of america and christianity. He defends a school for firing a teacher because they are gay and calls those who oppose their decision idiots. Did you read the article before deleting what I wrote out on his page? Did you take into consideration that he blithely has written statements about his own personal beliefs to his page without any kind of source material backing these up? He litearlly refers to America as "she" on his page. Why should that stay if the factual depiction of his beliefs backed up by his own writing cannot? The "negative interpretation" of someone's openly biased standpoints are fact. He is homophobic and everything else that I've stated is fact straight from things that he has written. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hereisnowhy (talk • contribs) 03:06, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

You are simply arguing for your interpretation. Wikipedia states the facts, it does not make interpretations and go on to characterize people in negative terms. You say that he establishes the fact himself. I read the article and he does not say anything about being homophobic or hating gays. The text you cite may be his beliefs, but it should not contain interpretations, nor do I see that problem in a quick link. I have already sufficiently explained this with links. If you wish to carry this on, discuss in on the talk page and with others who have recently edited the article. After that you can try the deletion process, though I frankly think you can not establish that he is not notable. Otherwise, you can take further steps under Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. I am not the other side of this; I am simply applying the principles and procedures in the pages that I have linked above, which I again suggest you read. Donner60 (talk) 03:17, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Nowhere in my proposed edit did I call him homophobic or say that he "hates gays," I said that the views he has expressed are homophobic which can pretty much be verified by definition. I'm not fighting for my interpretation because it's not my interpretation. You can't tell me that there is no standpoint in those articles or that what I have surmised of them is inaccurate. I make no declaration of him as a person, I simply say that he has expressed homophobic views and give links to the homophobic views in question. What if it was changed from "openly expressed homophobic views" to "openly expressed his personal views regarding homosexuality and same-sex marriage," then how exactly is it "my interpretation?" I genuinely am not seeing where you're coming from. I don't transcribe his views, I literally kept them as close to what he has said as I possibly could. It genuinely is crazy to me that this:

"In some cases, he adds, moral reasoning may require that the United States support authoritarian regimes to fend off the greater evils of moral decay and threats to the security of the United States. For Weigel, America's shortcomings do not excuse her from pursuing the greater moral good."

Can stay, without any kind of source or anything, but what I've said cannot. Seriously? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hereisnowhy (talk • contribs) 03:26, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

As for the two sentences you cite, they can be tagged with a citation needed tag and if no citation is provided within a reasonable period of time, that text can be removed. See Wikipedia:Citation needed. No matter how many ways you try to come at justifying your interpretation and point of view, I am not going to agree your characterization is consistent with Wikipedia policy. As I noted, you should take this up elsewhere with others. Donner60 (talk) 03:34, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Tim Tam "Tim Tam Slam" Edit Revert

Thank you for your message regarding your revert to my edits on this page. I'm new to Wikipedia and didn't intend to commit my changes yet. Thanks for redirecting me to the sandbox, this is better suited to my needs. Cordially 66.219.213.35 (talk) 04:13, 9 September 2016 (UTC)Aspiring Wikipedia Contributor

Thanks. I left some links to helpful Wikipedia style, guideline and policy pages on your talk page. Donner60 (talk) 04:17, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Balangiga Massacre

September 2016[edit]

Hello, I'm Donner60. Your recent edit to Balangiga massacre appears to have added incorrect information, so I removed it for now. If you believe the information was correct, please cite a reliable source or discuss your change on the article's talk page. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Donner60 (talk) 01:46, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

49.150.159.200 (talk) 02:09, 10 September 2016 (UTC) Hi, I was about to revert it back. I was just showing that person what Wikipedia is all about and telling her that this is a collaborative work by users. But thanks for reverting it back for me. :)

I accepted your explanation, struck through my original message and left links to helpful Wikipedia format, guideline and policy pages. Donner60 (talk) 02:14, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

49.150.159.200 (talk) 02:23, 10 September 2016 (UTC)great! thanks man! I will try to figure out again my wikipedia account and use that going forward!  :)

Thank you

Thanks for catching/reverting those. Neil took care of that IP! -- Dane2007 ^talk 03:45, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

@Dane2007: You're welcome. Glad to help. Others, including you, have reverted such edits to my page. Occasionally such edits can remain for awhile if the user is busy elsewhere or has signed off. Always good to remove them as early as possible. Donner60 (talk) 03:52, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Reverted change on paralympics page

You reverted a change I made that deleted something about Brazil 2016 being the first paralympics to take place in winter. the paralympics started in september, which is spring in brazil, not winter — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.167.190.26 (talk) 05:03, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

I left the following message on your talk page: I am striking the above message because it was a mistake. I restored something that in fact should have been removed or changed. I may have misread the sequence of edits but in any case, the edit was not a test and my reversion was a mistake. Since this was several days ago, there are too many intervening edits to roll mine back but if an error remains, it can now be correct. Sorry for the mistake. If you are not familiar with them, you may be interested in pages with helpful information about editing Wikipedia which can be found on various Wikipedia guideline and policy pages including: Getting started; Introduction to Wikipedia; Wikipedia:Simplified ruleset; Wikipedia:Simplified Manual of Style; Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources; Help:Footnotes; Wikipedia:Verifiability; Wikipedia:No original research; Wikipedia:Neutral point of view; Wikipedia:Notability; Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons; Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not; Wikipedia:Words to watch; Help:Introduction to talk pages; Wikipedia:Copyright Problems and Help:Contents. Thank you for your contributions and your message. Donner60 (talk) 05:13, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election

Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway, and as a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the election page. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 23 September. For the Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:01, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

White pride

I believe you unnecessarily erased the adjustment I made to the page on white pride which simply clarified not to conflate the nationalism and sense of separatism of whites with neo-nazism and white supremacists. I provided a sufficient edit summary adequately explaining the changes I made therefore it seems unreasonable that these changes were erased. I am leaving you this message because I believe you made a mistake in restoring the original inaccurate content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrPreamble (talk • contribs) 00:27, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your explanation. However, I reverted an edit in which you removed a picture and caption and replaced the picture and caption with a red link. I reverted the edit as an unexplained removal of content. That is exactly what it was. It seems that you intended to substitute one picture for another. But that was not the result of your edit. This is a different issue from the one addressed in your explanation. That issue pertains to later edits by you which were reverted by other users. Since these edits not only followed mine but had to do with the text not just a failed picture substitution, any controversy over those changes would be between you and the other users. My revert of your edit concerning the problem with the picture substitution was proper and had nothing to do with the content of the article or later edits. So you need to take up the issue with the other users. In the event this does not work out to your satisfaction, I suggest you look at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. Donner60 (talk) 01:59, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

You should join us on IRC!

Donner60! Just sending you a personal message to see what you think about joining us on IRC? IRC is chat medium used to send messages between one another. A lot of us vandal fighters talk in there a lot. If you want to connect to IRC and chat on the English Wikipedia channel, just click here. It would be really awesome to see you become a regular on IRC with us! Maybe I'll see you in there? :-) ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 03:25, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm also in IRC now if you want to join and chat! :-D ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 03:25, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

@Oshwah:. Thanks! I had been thinking about whether there might be a forum of some sort for comments about vandalism in general without making a big deal about them. I may drop in at some time. After a short while, I plan to work on an article tonight, about a major general and combat hero. I have gotten quite far along but have to consider whether it needs to be reduced and some information moved to other articles. I am leaning toward posting the long version. Donner60 (talk) 03:37, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Well, either way, I'm usually on IRC 24/7. If you join, just ping me by typing 'Oshwah' into the chat. It will alert me that you're trying to talk to me. Would love to say 'hello'! :-) ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 03:43, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

@Oshwah:. Great. Good to know you are likely to be there. Donner60 (talk) 03:45, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Kaveri River Dispute

Why are calling an update to existing incomplete table as disruptive when it is based on already existing reference. The other user is deleting the fact deliberately — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:CDC3:A9D0:0:0:0:3ED (talk) 04:53, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

You added "based on a biased decision" which is nowhere in the reference that you cite. Your additions to the table have been questioned by another editor, apparently because they differ from the tribunal's numbers. Your reference is apparently outdated. In any event, the edit to the table was taken away with your non-neutral edit because it was part of the same edit. You can take that up with others. My point is that Wikipedia can not say that the decision was biased when no neutral source can be cited for that phrase. Donner60 (talk) 05:57, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Wow looks like a you are super reader. Read 41 pages in less than 5 minutes and coming to a conclusion! Looks like you are a sr editor. I was expecting that you read the article in full before jumping into conclusion. However please note it is clearly stated in Table 2 of page 22. I am not sure why the other user is deleting it to favour one state over other state. BTW: Threats like 'you will be blocked' will not help wikipedia to keep its current high standards.

As I said, the reason for my edit was that you inserted the words "based on biased decision," which you do not seem to be acknowledging. I did not read the article because, if you are referring to citation 7, it is not linked. Also, since I said I was not dealing with the table, which unfortunately is part of the same edit (but which has been questioned and now has a decision that gives a difference number), I did not need to read the reference. Wikipedia's high standards are not kept by editors who push their point of view by adding phrases like "biased decision" which is their own unsourced interpretation - in other words, it is not a neutral point of view. Why don't you just leave that out and support your changes in the actual text, since that is really the important thing? BTW: That is not a threat; it is simply a fact that users who repeatedly fail to adhere to Wikipedia guidelines and policies (or are vandals, which I do not accuse you of being) will be blocked. And it is a standard message given all the time as the number of such messages grow. Also, I repeated the previous message. If I had added another more direct version, you would be down to your last try. I did not do that because I am trying to get through to you what the problem with your edit is. Donner60 (talk) 06:19, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

'based on biased decision' is removed. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:CDC3:A9D0:0:0:0:3ED (talk) 08:22, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for reverting my edit (really).

@Donner60, I'm glad you were on top of that article (Apologeticus), noticed the change, and reverted my edit. It was an error due to a curious series of events. After looking at the wording of something in the 1st (creation) version of the article, I left to work in another browser window. I later came back to the browser where the 1st version was still showing. Believing it was the current version I edited it to fix an errant 'a' in the lead, then saved.

Take a look at the history 00:56, 13 June 2004‎ and you'll instantly see what happened. I didn't know it was possible to overwrite the current version that way.

Once more, thanks for being alert.

KSci (talk) 03:24, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

@KSci: Thanks for the explanation. I have been around long enough to have saved an edit by mistake so it can happen. I have also had an article open in two windows so I know that can result in a situation where a mistake is made by making edits (especially along with deletions, intended or not) on both pages. Good luck in future editing. Donner60 (talk) 03:30, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Edits reverted on Don King (boxing promoter) mistake

Probably by mistake you reverted my edits on the page for Don King (boxing promoter), claiming I was doing "editing tests" even though it was a real edit. It looks like you were using Huggle and it got flagged as vandalism? The edits I made were clearing written, notable, and cited by strong sources, therefore can we re-revert the edits? Do you have any other thoughts / conflicting opinions? Thanks - William Casey (talk) 04:19, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

@Williamcasey: The word "rum" was inserted at the end of a paragraph. It seems obvious from your message that this was unintentional, though you are correct that it was what was immediately visible on Huggle. Donner60 (talk) 04:26, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

I fixed that error and re-added the new content. I guess somehow "trump" turned into "rum" by mistake. William Casey (talk) 15:42, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Removed my edits with no explanation

-rep — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.208.138.84 (talk) 02:07, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

I used the editing test template because I could not believe the edit was serious and even if it was, I did not want to tag a first edit as vandalism. Your edit ", "which is why the town is widely known for red trucks" was unsourced. It is unlikely to be widely known and is certainly questionable. Even if you could get over the hurdle of citing a reliable, verifiable, third-party source, the comment is unencyclopedic. See also Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, such as a blog, forum, etc. Donner60 (talk) 02:16, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for that. It was a mistake. I meant to edit something else but I got a glitch on my computer. 2602:301:779C:C0F0:61FC:84D4:BA6C:F5A (talk) 23:26, 25 September 2016 (UTC) ...

Short-lived Ottoman provinces

Do you even try to understand why an edit was made before reverting it? --178.252.126.70 (talk) 02:04, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

In looking into this further based on your message, I see that you were changing a redirect to a direct link and referring to an article directly on the subject instead of two articles on the subjects in general. Similar edits can be disruptive or otherwise nonconstructive. You can help avoid such misinterpretations or misunderstandings by using edit summaries. Since your edits are valid, I struck the original messages on your talk page. I have rolled back my edits so that your edits are the last ones now showing. Donner60 (talk) 02:18, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Just removed one of my edits with no explanation.

Changed "Baines" to "Boner" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.19.96.197 (talk) 03:49, 29 September 2016 (UTC)