User talk:MJL/sandbox6

Welcome

I'm just going to try this for a single dispute where it might be helpful. If it works, I'll make it a regular thing. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 03:27, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

MJL's concerns

Reading the original AN/I thread made me upset because I saw editors I respected not being their best selves. DBigXray is an editor I care for and respect deeply. Their mediation in the conflicts between Edward Zigma and Harshil has been stellar. This is to say nothing of DBigXray's many contributions to important current events (like 2019 Balakot airstrike) which is a topic very dear to me. However, DBigXray when you gave Soman a level four warning template for this comment, I was sincerely disappointed. Would you see why Soman might be upset with you considering your pre-existent content dispute? –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 04:13, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Attempt 1

MJL, it is inappropriate to take this out of context. See the sequence of events at [1] to understand why and how this had escalated. I gave them two warnings so that they can stop the ADHOMS and I was prepared to bring his case to ANI the third time they did it. Although it was not me who had brought this to ANI. I see here that you seem to have no concerns about the harassment meted out to me. DBigXrayᗙ 06:29, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you MJL and good luck to you. The above two posts echoes Usedtobecool spending over 400 words offering a neutral take on the subject, and DBigXRay's response is: your are wrong in the beginning itself. As above, DBigXRay knows that this situation escalated, but won't take any responsibility for their own part. Unperson A 07:01, 16 February 2020 (UTC) Edited by MJL 14:12, 16 February 2020‎ UTC

It was obvious that he (Usedtobecool) had not read the thread or my earlier responses, and I wanted to point the obvious. There was nothing more for me to say to Usedtobecool and repeat the same things that I had already said above (on the ANI thread). MJL, I appreciate that you tried to do something, but I have already stated why I feel this effort started on the wrong foot. With Unperson now continuing his harassment on this page, I would prefer to deal with them on the ANI for everyone to see. DBigXrayᗙ 07:09, 16 February 2020 (UTC) Edited by MJL 14:18, 16 February 2020‎ UTC

I post the below, and this is your reply. I'll satisfy you, DBigXray, I'm {bleep} out of here. Unperson A 07:13, 16 February 2020 (UTC) Edited by MJL 02:13, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

DBigXray, if you are referring to your comment that you linked in your reply at ANI, it's true that I had not seen it as that was one of the posts I had edit conflicted with. I probably should have read the changes first, but I viewed my comment as a meta-whatever that wouldn't be rendered irrelevant by a few replies added to conversations not in the subsection I was responding to. I stand by the rest of my comment even with the sentence containing "sanctions" voided. But, that's that.

My follow-up to your reply there to me would have been- Have adhoms against you continued following GirthSummit's "moving on"? If that is the case, it should be as easy as adding diffs evidencing that (My original comment was guided by the presumption that it had not, seeing as the latest diff that I was directly responding to was an old one dug up which did not even involve you.) If not, I am lost because if you are not looking to have editors blocked, how else would you have it proven to you that adhoms against you have been made to cease if not by the lack of them since?

As to what's going on between you and Unperson A, I must confess that's the reason that I chose to leave a comment at all (originally), and I think all that happened there was there was a mishap with first-contact that was initiated in good faith which needlessly escalated. I haven't gotten the sense that either of you has old bitterness guiding your involvement here. That it has generated only heat, it's good that Unperson has elected to leave this altogether and I hope you'll facilitate that by not using words like "harassment" in connection with them which is precisely the kind of thing an editor who wants to leave will be forced to come back again and again to defend against.

Finally, perhaps a self-fulfilling profecy it became, but the closure of the ANI report, I'd say, disagrees with your reading of my comment there. I do think there is something to this comment here as well, or I would not be taking my time to put it here (as any observer at origin can confirm, I rarely post to the dramaboards), but you are the one best positioned to judge if it's helpful at all and that I defer to as I did the last time, unless I'm mentioned a couple times. Regards! Usedtobecool ☎️ 11:51, 16 February 2020 (UTC) Edited by MJL 14:18, 16 February 2020‎ UTC

Thoughts

Extended content
The following is a closed discussion. Please do not modify it.
Maybe I should play's devil's advocate. If I were DBigXray's good friend, I would have advised him to take the 'loss' at this point with Girth Summit's comment. Even in that section I had only proposed a warning. Had he taken responsibility, apologized, and committed to no further revenge AfDs, perhaps there wouldn't even be a consensus for a warning, much less any further sanctions. Hell, right now, there still isn't consensus for sanctions. It's not too late to take the 'loss' before some admin reads through all the WP:BLUDGEON and WP:IDHT in the thread. Show some measure of reflection, open-mindedness and remorse. Unperson A 07:01, 16 February 2020 (UTC) Edited by MJL 02:13, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Harassment

DBigXray You said above that I no concerns about the harassment meted out to [you]. However, that could not be further from the truth. I built this place to provide you a safe place to discuss your experiences. If you would like to direct specific comments to users who you felt have wronged them, then please do so here while ensuring you follow the rules. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 14:24, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

If it wasn't obvious, you can't speak of those who no longer exist. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 14:28, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Process

• Comment: Can people please read MJL's posted rules at User:MJL/sandbox6 ... two compliments for one criticism. I must confess I nearly missed them myself. I am concerned this may have inadvertently become a slanging match already and this mediation attempt may already have broken down.Djm-leighpark (talk) 09:47, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

I am trying to read my way through this and finding a way through this without this returning to ANI. Pragmatically Starship.paint has left the mediation and I assume MJL will bar them from it for breach of rules. @DBigXray, MJL's initial approach of this mediation was to you, and your initial response to MJL showed some appreciation of MJL's attempt at mediation. However your statement I see here that you seem to have no concerns about the harassment meted out to me. seems adversarial and involves your interpretation of MJL's mind and makes it nearly impossible for MJL to continue the mediation. If you had said MJL, I am concerned you do not seem to showing any concerns for the harassment meted out to me that would be a perfectly acceptable concern for MJL to attempt to address as it does not involve questioning his motives. But the question is DBigXray do you wish to continue with this mediation attempt and its house.rules or not, I am suggesting a yes or no response here, and the response after that point to come from MJL who can conclude or continue from that point. Thankyou. Djm-leighpark (talk) 10:46, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Djm-leighpark gets the prize for reading the rules. I have now unpersoned the rulebreaker who never existed. We are now free of oldthink. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 14:24, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

MJL, I also followed the rules, at least in my first comment. I was reading 1984 last month, And though I liked the book a lot, The ingsoc was quite confusing to understand. Talking of the case, I obviously did not enjoy being attacked on AfD, Article talk pages, then on my user talk, and then on ANI. And now we are here. Having more than my fair share of the ANI torture. I am quite exhausted with the long thread and I hope you will understand and excuse me for saying that I do not want to go through the entire unpleasant experience once again. The ANI is closed now and I sincerely hope the things would improve, if they did not, then as the closing admin said folks will return back. DBigXrayᗙ 14:43, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

@DBigXray: If anyone knows what it is like to feel unwelcome on this site, it certain is me. There were a few months there I just was fed up with all the harrassment I was getting and how nobody was doing anything about it. Worse off, I felt like I had no one to turn to IRL about it since my offwiki friend stopped talking to me the day before it all happened.
However, just as I was made to feel unwelcome on the project so too did my actions cause that in another. Eric scrambled the password to his account and is gone in no small part due to my filing of that case.
I'm sorry you feel otherwise, but this is simply an innocent comment while this was a rookie mistake. By the time you got to making this warning, Soman was predisposed to thinking you had a grudge against them (you didn't explain the DS/alert wasn't a warning for example).
Do you see why, even if you disagree with how Soman acted, that you played no small part in causing the dispute between you two? –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 15:27, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

[COMMENT MOVED OUT by DBX] --DBigXrayᗙ 16:44, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

@DBigXray: Unless I am mistaken I am of the opinion your response here was likely not within the house rules, with criticisms of someone with apparently no attempt to find any positive points. Thankyou.Djm-leighpark (talk) 16:41, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

OK, I will move it out. --DBigXrayᗙ 16:44, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Failure?

MJL, I really appreciate your good faith attempts to bring mediation, however I am concerned it has failed. I note this sequence [2]. I also note DBigXray can be formidible at discussions such as AfD. DBigXray also has knowledge and expertise to select Wikipedia policies, guidelines and essays to back debates. Which can put those without such knowledge at a severe disadvantage. I am of the opinion civil safespace has the capability of Wikipedia:Gaming the system; and perhaps may be gaming this Wikipedia:Dispute resolution attempt, not to mention other debates, but I may be paranoid.10:15, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

MJL, I am minded because this is a "safespace" edits within it are not admissible as evidence in further discussions; though if it ends unsuccessfully the fact that dispute resolution has been attempted and failed is admissible as evidence escalation may be required. In all events unless there is some by willingness to continue I suggest this is closed unsuccessful (and I presume deleted?) Thankyou.Djm-leighpark (talk) 10:15, 17 February 2020 (UTC)