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Glad to have you back. And I appreciate that NinjaRobotPirate reconsidered the situation. Maybe people in New Zealand say "tidy" more or something. I know of one case where an editor was blocked for socking because a family member in their household was messing around, resulting in a CheckUser match, but they did get unblocked. So you're not the only one to get caught up in something like this. Wikipedians can sometimes be on edge about sockpuppetry because it is such a time consuming issue the way POV pushers and trolls will often keep coming back. Side note: I'm not aware of anywhere that Flyer22 Frozen has said she is from New Zealand. <span style="font-family:Palatino">[[User:Crossroads|'''Crossroads''']]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Crossroads|-talk-]]</sup> 00:50, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
Glad to have you back. And I appreciate that NinjaRobotPirate reconsidered the situation. Maybe people in New Zealand say "tidy" more or something. I know of one case where an editor was blocked for socking because a family member in their household was messing around, resulting in a CheckUser match, but they did get unblocked. So you're not the only one to get caught up in something like this. Wikipedians can sometimes be on edge about sockpuppetry because it is such a time consuming issue the way POV pushers and trolls will often keep coming back. Side note: I'm not aware of anywhere that Flyer22 Frozen has said she is from New Zealand. <span style="font-family:Palatino">[[User:Crossroads|'''Crossroads''']]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Crossroads|-talk-]]</sup> 00:50, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

I understand being unjustly blocked. Sorry that happened to you. I'm not from New Zealand, though. I was born in one area, traveled and lived in other parts of the world, and am currently back where I was born (been back for years now). [[User:Flyer22 Frozen|Flyer22 Frozen]] ([[User talk:Flyer22 Frozen|talk]]) 00:57, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Revision as of 00:58, 5 August 2020

Merging discussions

Hi there, just wondering if it's time to take the merge requests from Talk:Gina Rippon to WP:ANRFC? -Kj cheetham (talk) 08:58, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kj cheetham: absolutely, but I have no idea how to do that. There are a lot of pages involved. Sxologist (talk) 08:59, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'll see what I can do... -Kj cheetham (talk) 09:43, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The other ones might not have had sufficient comments to be honest, so might be best to leave those for longer, but I'll see about the Gina Rippon one itself at least. -Kj cheetham (talk) 09:47, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright

Regarding what happened here, I know I've pasted passages longer than that into talk pages, but I think the crucial difference is that when I did so it was in the context of quoting and attributing the quote to the source. You'll want to be careful to avoid doing that, even though copy and paste is so easy, and restate it your own words. This applies to all pages, even userspace, as I understand it. Not sure how they find about such things. Crossroads -talk- 01:31, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ah yes, lol oops ;) they must have an autotool. My bad I know WP is quite stringent re: copyright. Sxologist (talk) 02:09, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Twinkle

Hey, seeing this, I thought I'd introduce you to WP:Twinkle. It has a rollback-equivalent function. You simply enable it under Preferences > Gadgets. It has a lot of other useful features too. Crossroads -talk- 02:47, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ahh – thanks Crossroads that's brilliant. Sxologist (talk) 03:18, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion declined: Draft:Barbara Bergmann bibliography

Hello Sxologist. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Draft:Barbara Bergmann bibliography, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Page is not a disambiguation page, or disambiguates two or more extant pages. Thank you. Shirt58 (talk) 09:24, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I must admit that I am puzzled why you moved Barbara Bergmann bibliography into Draftspace. Draftspace for new articles, and the bibliography article was started in April 2015. There may well be good reasons for the bibliography's draftication. Could you possibly set out what those reasons are? Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 09:52, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, moving to draftspace is for new articles. If an article has been around for a while like this, your best options are WP:MERGE, WP:PROD, and WP:AFD. Crossroads -talk- 20:54, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Sxologist (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I don't know where this came from or why I was blocked – this is my only Wikipedia account. I am not Skoojal, just look at all my bad run ins I had with him while they edited as Freeknowledgecreator. (Edit: it turns out I'm blocked for having the same ISP, not even an IP match, with the sock... We are both from NZ and Freeknowledgecreator/Skoojals old WP profile has a New Zealand badge on it. New Zealand is tiny, you can count ISPs on one hand). Can @JzG: @Flyer22 Frozen: @Crossroads: and @Markworthen: please take a look? It looks like someone has not reviewed all of the relevant talk pages and drawn the correct conclusions. Freeknowledgecreator (Skoojal) consistently undid my edits and POV pushed anti-gay psychoanalytic conversion therapy positions in a very subtle way. What has that got to do with my editing? My edits are the direct opposite to that of Skoojal/Freeknowledgecreator. I am confident this block will be lifted but confused as to why it occurred in the first place. Just look at this long winded argument I had with him when I first started editing. It looks like this accusation of me being a socky started here (why? It makes no logical sense, I was reverting a fringe edit from an anonymous IP after he removed APA guidelines on conversion therapy) and Crossroads defended me writing "while Freeknowledgecreator's edits watered down how conversion therapy was fringe, Sxologist is the opposite and edits following the scientific consensus in this area". Note: I have now added a lists of edits below to defend myself against the claim that I am a sock of Skoojal/Freeknowledgecreator, and other users have agreed. Sxologist (talk) 21:45, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Accept reason:

I find it a bit strange that you would edit the same topics, from the same ISP, and use similar edit summaries (for example, "tidy" and "shift" vs "shifting material, tidying"). I discounted some of the differences because Skoojal has a history of trolling, taking on different personas, and running multiple socks at once. But maybe I also read a bit too much into coincidence. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:12, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support unblock. The totality of evidence is against them being the same person. The timing does not work out, as I said at the ANI thread started by an IP who is pro-fringe and may themselves be a sock. As also noted there and above, the POV does not line up at all. The ISP match is not sufficient evidence, since millions of people can share an ISP. Crossroads -talk- 22:02, 4 August 2020 (UTC) updated Crossroads -talk- 22:46, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Addendum - if Sxologist is FKC, this would mean that FKC, months before he was ever taken to ANI and had no reason to think he would ever be blocked, created another account and then actively used it against his POV, used it to argue against himself directly, and then after FKC was blocked, then continued to use this other account against what FKC always stood for. This makes no sense. Having the same ISP is not sufficient evidence for a block when the behavioral evidence contradicts it so strongly. And as someone who edits the topic area and is familiar with both editors, I will testify that these are definitely different editors, with Sxologist being new and inexperienced. I've filed several SPI cases where the behavioral evidence actually was super compelling, and the accounts were SPAs, and still no block was given. Since this is a helpful editor who works within policies and guidelines, then we should be all the more cautious. Crossroads -talk- 22:20, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @NinjaRobotPirate: could you please take a look, since you were the one who blocked me? I don't know if this means anything but Freeknowledgecreator used to have a New Zealand badge on their user page, and I am also from New Zealand. Sxologist (talk) 22:04, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I wrote this up in case FKC appealed his block:
behavioral evidence

Arthur Janov

Frederick Crews

Camille Paglia

Sigmund Freud

In general

Notice how the socks constantly "shift", "tidy", and "tweak" content? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 22:12, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's decent evidence against those accounts, but Sxologist isn't listed there at all, so it isn't evidence against him. Crossroads -talk- 22:23, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • NinjaRobotPirate, what does that have to do with my account? As Crossroads points out... I'm not listed anywhere? You have not reviewed the long history of Skoojal going after my edits. Here's two I just pulled from a single article. FKC undid edit here, and Crossroads corrected him. Another time FKC reverted my edit THREE MINUTES after I published it??? We come from polar opposite ends of the spectrum, he literally has povpushed conversion therapy through every single account, where as I have consistently edited along mainstream lines. When I have edited similar articles to him, its because 90% of the article will have been written exclusively by him and they are so badly skewed in one direction that I occasionally tried to remove a fringe statement. This is pretty bizarre since I actually quietly suggested somebody might be a FKC sock here on Flyers talk page. Further, judging by the comments on your talk page you also appear to say that it's something to do with my ISP. I live in New Zealand (where FKC was from, according to his old Wikipedia profile). We have a few major dominant ISP's, and in fact, most of the companies just feed their internet from a major ISP (Spark). Sxologist (talk) 22:29, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • More evidence that I'm not Skoojal/Freeknowledgecreator:
  • Ultimately I believe someone other than NinjaRobotPirate makes the decision to officially answer the unblock request. If you have any more cases where you argued against FKC, I'd encourage you to add them, even though this is probably enough. But still, the more the better. Crossroads -talk- 22:53, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • More evidence I am not Skoojal/FKC:
  • I restored old sections of the Simon LeVay article (a gay neuroscientist) whose article had significant portions previously deleted by FKC.
  • I made a comment to a user about how KFC had been blocked as a socky, and I note: "Freeknowledgecreator was just banned as a sock puppet, and his editing from his other socks is telling. I'm not impressed by a large write up implying I'm somehow 'angry' about the book - simply because I am familiar with the research on the (research of the) etiology of sexual orientation"
  • I reinstated a large section the George Rekers scandal on the NARTH article, which FKC had previously removed (albeit for citation problems). But FKC appeared to defend a lot of NARTH related articles, and created articles on the books of many of their key founders.
  • Freeknowledgecreator undid my edit to rearrange an article.
  • There are plenty more out there. He undid my edits sometimes minutes after I had made them. We had a volume of back and forth on talk pages, I consistently tagged other users to ask about whether or not his edits were fair or not, I criticized his edits during his reviews for good article status and so on. Simply having an interest in the same topics doesn't mean that I am him. FKC consistently pushed his freudian religious interpretation of sexuality – whereas mine is actually informed by *evidence*. I am glad Crossroads has said my edits were useful, and, quite rightly points out that I was an inexperienced editor when I started in March. This block makes no sense. Sxologist (talk) 23:27, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • A couple more pieces of evidence:
  • Here, for example, we see that FKC had Twinkle. Sxologist did not until recently, and had to manually request rollback: [1] I then introduced him to Twinkle: [2] A sock would have (re-)discovered Twinkle themselves.
  • Sxologist adds this material, to which FKC affixes a "fact" tag to the last portion. [3] A sock would have had a ref note there from the start, or else not tagged their own material for problems. Crossroads -talk- 23:50, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know much about how Wikipedia identifies sockpuppets, but I can say that I have consistently found Sxologist to be a conscientious, thoughtful, and civil Wikipedian. Is there truly evidence proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he is actually Skoojal/FreeKnowledgeCreator?   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) (I'm a man—traditional male pronouns are fine.) 23:22, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Mark. Sxologist (talk) 23:27, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Markworthen, best that you read the above in detail. CheckUser can detect ISP (internet company), IP address, and device details, as I understand it. Only the ISP has been stated to match. Tons of editors will naturally share ISPs. The behavioral evidence above shows that they are not the same person. Given your interactions with both users, you can speak as to whether you think they are the same person, and whether you support an unblock. Crossroads -talk- 23:32, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I did read this entire page, and I've been trying to find the "evidence" that Sxologist = FKC = Skoojal, but I see no such evidence. So I do indeed support unblocking Sxologist.

The anonymous IP person on the other hand sure looks like a troublemaker.   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) (I'm a man—traditional male pronouns are fine.) 23:39, 4 August 2020 (UTC)   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) (I'm a man—traditional male pronouns are fine.) 23:39, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Unblocked

Thank you for unblocking me NinjaRobotPirate. I do want to respond to "I find it a bit strange that you would edit the same topics, from the same ISP, and use similar edit summaries". It's not strange that gay men might edit in articles related to sexual orientation (albeit, I work in a field related to this area, whereas FKC appears to read a lot of freud). I also did go through some of their edit history and checked several articles (and made tweaks) because they did so much pov pushing (although I have mostly left their freud type articles alone because not many people care about freud). As for edit summaries, I think using the word 'shifting' and 'tidying' is not a match. I actually accused another person of being a sock of Skoojal/FKC here because they also used the phrase " Thank you, but..." every time they reverted an edit – which is a much more unique identifier (albeit, I was probably being a sockophobe). Thanks to Crossroads and Mark for coming to my defense. Every time someone makes a sketchy edit to such articles I sometimes get suspicious they are FKC, so it was a real shock to wake up and be blocked as a potential sock of freeknowledgecreator lol. I do see that Skoojal did take on personalities, but they were often so blatant and poorly done, for example, usernames like "reparative therapy survivor" and "born gay" but they'd then go make a bunch of edits to pov-push that reparative therapy might actually be a good thing. Also, we may have the same ISP but it's likely that Flyer22 Frozen would also have the same ISP because they too, are from New Zealand. I am surprised so many people who edit these articles are from New Zealand – but coincidences do happen. Sxologist (talk) 00:25, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yay! :O)   - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) (I'm a man—traditional male pronouns are fine.) 00:31, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Glad to have you back. And I appreciate that NinjaRobotPirate reconsidered the situation. Maybe people in New Zealand say "tidy" more or something. I know of one case where an editor was blocked for socking because a family member in their household was messing around, resulting in a CheckUser match, but they did get unblocked. So you're not the only one to get caught up in something like this. Wikipedians can sometimes be on edge about sockpuppetry because it is such a time consuming issue the way POV pushers and trolls will often keep coming back. Side note: I'm not aware of anywhere that Flyer22 Frozen has said she is from New Zealand. Crossroads -talk- 00:50, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I understand being unjustly blocked. Sorry that happened to you. I'm not from New Zealand, though. I was born in one area, traveled and lived in other parts of the world, and am currently back where I was born (been back for years now). Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 00:57, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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