User talk:Floydian

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just dropping by to say hi

How are the Canadian roads faring? and any problems with the visual reorganization of the Jcon template that I did? And what is a good page to look at the new format of infobox road that you were working on for the Canadian roads? stmrlbs|talk 18:13, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

I can't speak for the rest of Canada, but Ontario is beginning to shape up just slightly. Hopefully Highway 401 (which is probably the best example of the infobox) will be ready for FAC soon. No problems with the organization you did, it has made it much much easier to follow things around and figure out where errors are stemming from. Some other examples are at Don Valley Parkway, Ontario Highway 35 and Kipling Avenue. You might find this pretty interesting. Check out April 2010 too.

How are your projects coming along? - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 04:31, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Wow, on the stats! Good Job! Sorry I didn't get back. Just working a lot lately. I was looking at your examples and they look nice - I like the color. But, is there a key that explains what the colors mean? Aren't you using a color system? It is probably under my nose, but I couldn't find it. But, I like the way it looks. stmrlbs|talk 05:11, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Whoa, just checked out that link for the stats. It skyrocketed not long after you changed the article, and it looks like it has further increased dramatically since we got those featured picture contenders. Haljackey (talk) 19:12, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

It's not only that it skyrocketed, but that it's continued to hold that pattern after the first couple weeks when we were editing it heavily. I barely load the page once a day now on some days, yet it has consistently gone from about a dozen views a day to three to five hundred. I wish I could see where it has come from. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 19:17, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Well I think it's only one per IP address per day. If I loaded the page 300 times in one day it would still only count as one. I've been adding links to it from other articles (such as pictures and road-related articles) so maybe that's one reason? Like I said the last two days are way up and I think that may be due to the featured picture contenders... Haljackey (talk) 19:40, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

401 Ideas take 2

I have a few more ideas for the article.

• First of all, all the red links should be eliminated (exception might be made for the exit list).
• Maybe make a subsection discussing the problems with the road / congestion? Highway 401's Toronto segment was named one of the worst roads in Ontario in 2009 by the CAA. Link and source: [1] general information: [2]
• Expand the section about the service stations and maybe get a pic of one under reconstruction. I tried to get a shot of the one that's been demolished in Ingersoll, but the image came out blurry. Also, the one in Woodstock (estbound) is open, yet it's stated closed in the article. In addition, it has all the services described in the Newcastle (westbound) service centre. Perhaps the two were switched up? (Not sure if Newcastle one is open or closed, but I would assume its closed.)
• In your completion map, you have a ??? on the most eastern stretch. I think a date needs to be found and changed in the image.
• Maybe include a video showing some important milestones the highway achieved over the years? I recall seeing a couple on Youtube. Good example: [3]

Speaking of Youtube, remember I linked you a high-speed video of the C/E system? I recently talked to the uploader, and he's in the process of fixing the annotations and tweaking the video so it's more accurate. He'll contact me when its done so it can either be linked in the external links or possibly added as a video file.

Thoughts on these 401 ideas? Haljackey (talk) 18:09, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

• Per WP:REDLINK, redlinks should only be removed if the page they link to has no chance of ever being created. Most of the redlinks in the prose are to county roads (esp in Durham) that don't have articles just yet. I strongly dislike removing redlinks simply because they are not blue.
• It t'was, and then the MTO repaved its entire surface through Toronto. That may be worth mentioning. Unfortunately it's hard to source things such as traffic congestion locations and times, even with all the books on the highway, almost none mention congestion beyond the number of vehicles using the highway. However, if you can find a source that rants at the highway, we could very well integrate some into the GTA part of the route description.
• Funny, I hadn't got to that part of your message yet, and as I typed the previous point, the exact same thought came to me. The Tilbury SC is supposed to reopen beginning in July if I'm not mistaken - I'd like to get a picture of the new centres... Preferably something vertical so it can be slipped in beside the Service Centre table.
• Haven't been able to find a source more reliable than this posting by Cameron Bevers on Yahoo groups. It appears as though the part from 10 miles east of Prescott (@Iroquois) all the way to Lancaster began in several separate segments at the same time, and they all joined and completed the full ~75km at the same time as well. Construction started in mid 1960 and finished by 1964. The last section from Lancaster to Montreal was started in '63 or '64, and was done in time for Expo '67 (but I can only find dates for the highway out of Montreal which "connects with Ottawa, and Ontario's 401 to Kingston"). It's better to indicate a lack of knowledge than to promote potentially false information.
• That youtube video is interesting. We have to be wary of what we link to though. Both under consideration of WP:ELNO and WP:EL, as well as the fact that we can't verify the accuracy of the videos in many cases (and they can be changed without notice).

The other youtube video definitely will be going up. If the author can, use information from the article so we don't run into problems with FAC saying the video contains unsourced "facts" - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 22:33, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

The 2009 Worst roads was released earlier this year, so that would have happened after or during the resurfacing projects. I'm sure it wasn't just road surface that was the problem, congestion, weaving, volume, design, average speed/time, etc are all factors. Can you change the service centre chart then? Move the services from Newcastle to Woodstock and open it and close the one in Newcastle. I would but I don't know how to edit charts very well. I sent the video uploader a message regarding sources from the article and he said a lot of the stuff he got was from Wikipedia, but back in August 2009. The article was rewritten since then, right? Or was it before? Haljackey (talk) 00:30, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Nope, I copied my rewrite article over on March... 25th I believe. What do you mean by move the ones from Woodstock to Newcastle? I'll change the Newcastle one to closed. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 00:41, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

The Woodstock one is open and has the services that's described in the Newcastle one (Esso, Tim Hortons, Wendy's, Mr. Sub, Nicholby's Express), that's what I mean. Sorry if I confused you. Was the article rewritten that recently? Guess I didn't come along long after :P. It was April 18 when I contacted you for the first time. [4] Haljackey (talk) 01:09, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Found an old mid-1950's photo of Highway 401 at Warden Ave that might be of interest to you. It's on the commons: [5] Haljackey (talk) 04:43, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I haven't been by it myself, but there are articles saying it closed on Marc 31st[6] (and the source used in the article). Where did you find out the Newcastle one is closed? I'm trying to find a source but I can't (it was open when I went by on April 2nd, but Port Hope had closed two days earlier). I like that photo... I like it a lot. It's indescribable how much has changed. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 14:25, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

All I know for sure is that the Woodstock one is open, and it has every single service that's described in the Newcastle one. I'm not sure if the Newcastle one is open or closed. Glad you like the pic! Haljackey (talk) 15:42, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Here's an link from the MTO. It doesn't say anything about the Woodstock or Newcastle service centres being closed. After seeing this list, I'd be willing to bet that the Newcastle one is open. [7] Haljackey (talk) 16:54, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

It only covers Phase one, which was July 2009. At least a couple were closed on March 31st, but they only seem to be advertised in local papers around their locations. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 17:12, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Just purchased a bunch of Official Ontario Roadmaps off ebay. 1961, 1964, 1965, and 1968. Hopefully this will help fill in some details on the Eastern section and the Tilbury–London stretch (which I know was only 2 lanes at first, but I can't find more than thekingshighway.ca or that youtube video that verify that.

I've also gone over the article with a fine tooth comb. It looks like it's just down the Route description, especially in the GTA and somewhat in Eastern Ontario. I'm afraid if we can't find sources on the collector-express system that FAC will pick it out for sure. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 17:56, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like fun. I'll try to look for some more sources. We can always use google maps right? How about Google Streetview? We could use a sign that shows where the C/E system stars by the 409 denoting which lanes go where. Haljackey (talk) 18:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Sparingly, yes. Streetview is usually discouraged, but it's no problem to show a satellite shot to indicate the width (in lanes) and the start / end of the system. Anything beyond that would require another source. One of the sources I've come across is actually a scientific study of the system as a traffic management system... I'll try and find it to see if it describes anything (sign colours, transfers, the basketweave, etc.) - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 18:53, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Ok here is some info I found.

• This is basic and not really academic, so it might not count as a source: [8]
• This is a powerpoint from the MTO that states Highway 401 uses a collector / express system. Could be used to source the first statement in the subsection. I'ts on page 11. [9]
• This MTO page talks about COMPASS and it's main goal on the 401 is to provide info about the system: [10]
• This article talks about the disadvantages of frontage roads. We might be able to incorporate it into the text. It's also a very interesting read.[11]
• This one is good I think. It talks about problems with Toronto's freeway system and talks about the C/E system on page 17 [12]
• From Google Maps/Streetview. Sign indicating the start of the C/E system on the eastbound 401 at the 409. [13]

Anyways hope that helps.Haljackey (talk) 19:16, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Hey, haven't heard from ya about these. Are they any good?

• Also, I submitted this image as a candidate for a featured picture. I reverted it to it's original version so that anyone can enhance it if they so wish. I could use your support on this and from others on road wiki pages. Link: [14]. Full list of candidates here: [15].

Perhaps if it is made a featured picture it will help increase the chances of Highway 401 becoming a featured article. Haljackey (talk) 06:09, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

The first one is actually a mirror of the former wikipedia article, the second I can't view (can you post a screenshot of that page perhaps). The third is good, but doesn't really say much on the system (was a good source on the cameras though). The fourth is a great read, but doesn't really compare frontage roads to collector-express systems (but since we too have frontage roads, I wonder if an Ontario report compares them?), so it could possibly cause some WP:SYNTH issues. The fifth one is the former gettorontomoving essay, you'll want to post that at the reliable sources noticeboard to see if it's an ok source to use.

I posted at the FPC, but I'll echo here: Its a sharp photo, but we've got photos that are so much more interesting to go for that candidacy. File:401_Overview.jpgFile:Highway_401_Night_Lapse_Busy.jpg and File:Evacuated_Highway_401.jpg would be far more likely to succeed - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 15:29, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I replied to your comment there. I was also considering the night shot but I really like this picture as it puts the viewer right in the driver's seat. Haljackey (talk) 15:39, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Looks like the pic isn't going to make it. If you want to nominate the night pic, I'll support it. The reason why I didn't choose it in the first place was because I thought Flickr images couldn't be featured pics. Haljackey (talk) 05:05, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Not sure how this is done, but we could add something to the "did you know?" section on the wikipedia homepage. Such as saying "did you know that Highway 401 is the busiest highway in North America?" or "Did you know that Highway 401's widest point is 18 lanes near Pearson Airport?" or "Did you know that Highway 401 has the longest collector / express system in the world?" etc. Might further increase the chances of this becoming a featured article along with the featured picture attempts. Haljackey (talk) 21:56, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

They're all separate independent processes. DYK is for new articles or articles that have been expanded five-fold in the past 5 days, so the article wouldn't be eligible for it. I'm waiting on a peer review, and then I'm going to make the nomination. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 01:53, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Ah I see, good luck with that! Also in order for the night pic to be a featured picture, it has to be a major component in at least two articles. You might want to add those links back. Haljackey (talk) 02:11, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

He's done it again: [16] Haljackey (talk) 16:52, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Adding this one now. Hopefully the other half is done soon to accompany it. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 17:00, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

He said he's starting on it. I'll let you know when the annotations are complete. Haljackey (talk) 19:02, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Ah ha! How's this for a source for collector/express? Widening of 401 from 427 to Kipling Ave! [17] Haljackey (talk) 03:05, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't even mention it though. It just says its a class EA for the widening between Kipling and the 427. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 14:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Yeah after looking at it again, I think this was conducted to add an extra lane in the past, not a C/E system in the future. Haljackey (talk) 15:37, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Floydian. You have new messages at Dabomb87's talk page.
Message added 03:50, 17 May 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Dabomb87 (talk) 03:50, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Note on KL Roads list

I removed some parentheses from a note on the Kawartha Lakes list. I thought they were distracting. As a plus, it reads as a complete sentence now! —Fredddie™ 01:55, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Cool, looks a lot better like that (and a lot less repetitive when read aloud). Cheers, ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 02:07, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Your edit at Reincarnation

Please explain how the source you cited supports the sentence you added here. It doesn't seem to. The version you altered was the result of a consensus hammered out over time. Please engage on the talk page and respect consensus. Mitsube (talk) 23:50, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Sources override consensus, that's WP:V. Obviously you are only reading the abstract. The Washington Post article is an opinion piece, an essay. It means nothing in terms of scientific statistics. "Scientists don't believe reincarnation", not "scientists choose to ignore the substantial evidence in favour of reincarnation" - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 01:51, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

It is not true that there is a scientific consensus, namely, that reincarnation is false. Reincarnation is not a topic that science considers, generally, so how can there be a consensus on it. Now please explain your reverting in the word "notoriety", which is not sourced. Mitsube (talk) 00:08, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Notoriety? Huh? Please explain how you use the opinion piece of a newspaper to indicate the consensus on a topic that stretches across science, religion, philosophy and medicine? Please explain how the research of one doctor can be used to indicate the overall trend in the topic? The article is a sea of POV research, and really spends no time looking at the topic from the point of view that it is a fringe theory or pseudoscience (aside from a remark about the doctor being a victim of the critics calling his work pseudoscience). - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 20:16, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Featured Picture

Floydian, please see Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Highway 401 Night Lapse. I have a suggestion. Greg L (talk) 01:01, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Why not try the evacuated 401 pic now? 3rd time's a charm. :P Haljackey (talk) 23:46, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Replied at the FPC page. I'm not sure the evacuated pic adds any information to the article, it would probably get opposed. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 20:12, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I dunno, we can at least try it. That pic doesn't suffer from the long exposure problem people are noticing, so I would put it's chances at "decent". If you're not going to do it, I can give it a shot at some point and see what happens. I don't think there are any additional pictures beyond that image that are featured picture worthy unless you prove me wrong. Haljackey (talk) 21:22, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Trying this instead, maybe it'll fare better. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 01:14, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Huh? Isn't that the same picture? If it isn't I don't see it anywhere on the featured picture candidates list. [18] Haljackey Haljackey (talk) 01:26, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Ah I see it hasn't been added to the list yet. Are you going to add it? If you don't know how I can do it. Haljackey (talk) 02:35, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Guess the picture isn't going to make it as a renominated version. Who knows, maybe the opposers will support the black and white photograph. It's also very useful for two articles (the other being the Toronto Propane Explosion). Let me know if you want to do it. If not I can make the nomination... it's no big deal. Haljackey (talk) 00:59, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

I went ahead and did it. Third time's a charm! Let's just hope this saying is true! Link All featured picture candiates] Haljackey (talk) 03:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

List of numbered roads in Kawartha Lakes

Hey, just wanted to congratulate you on the above list's promotion to FL. You spent months on it, and despite the many obstacles you didn't give up, so it's great to see your persistence finally pay off. Cheers, Dabomb87 (talk) 22:49, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Awesome, and thanks! Hopefully the other ~25 lists will be able to follow in due time without so many trials. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 23:42, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

401 Ideas take 3

Trying to make a three-shielded sign for the main image in the 401 article. I didn't have much success with the PNG, and the SVG file didn't display at all.

Links:

• PNG
• SVG

Original links to shields:

• 401
• M/C-Freeway
• Highway of Heroes

I think the one shield is ok but there's room in the template to increase the width of the image, allowing us to put the other two major shield signs in there.

I see you were the one who made the shield that's in the article right now so perhaps you could help?

Thanks in advance. Haljackey (talk) 02:49, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

This seems really unnecessary... And besides, the MC shield is no longer posted (the picture in the article isn't the best) and the HoH shield is only posted between Toronto and Trenton... not to mention there is no instance of them appearing like that. All three shields are already represented in the article. Besides, any wide image is going to have to go further down the page and cannot be the main image. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 07:15, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

---

Oh, and in addition, I got a new camera this week. It's much better than the one I used for the shots I uploaded earlier (I took the other one back because it sucked, this is the one I have now in case you care: [19]), so I'll be sure to take some shots when I'm on the road. I don't think I can get many shots from overpasses except when I'm in a car driving over it. I might be heading to Windsor a few times this summer as well.

The only decent shot I could get from an overpass is from Wellington Road overlooking the 401/402 interchange. It's pretty close to me so I should be able to take some shots while standing steady. Here are two examples, do you think they would add to the article? [20] [21] Haljackey (talk) 04:53, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

I'll check these out in the mornin' only had a moment to pop on and I've already extended it. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 07:15, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

lol, that's fine! Check out my comments whenever you get a chance. I am also thinking of nominating the B&W 401 pic in the propane explosion for featured picture. Who knows, the third time might be a charm! Haljackey (talk) 15:47, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

27 should replace or accompany (depending on space) the shot in the Dorchester Swamp. Looks like I may possibly be going to Warsaw today, so I'll try and get my passenger to take photos along the way. May stop by Port Hope to get the service station. Cheers, ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 15:54, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Whoa wait..27 was just an example. That's from Scott Steves (Onthighways.com) who doesnt want his photos here. I said I could get a shot like that. What do you think about the shields image I made? Feel free to touch it up. Hope you have fun on your trip! Haljackey (talk) 23:22, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Ah, alright ya. I grabbed some today; went the opposite direction to Elora Gorge, but I got some good pics of the Hanlon Parkway and a couple of the 401. Saw the work on the c-e extension for the first time as well.

I'm not sure what you are trying to do with the images... The main image can't be wide, it should be narrow. And as I posted above, one of the shields is no longer posted and the other only along a portion of the highway, so they shouldn't just be grouped together. Perhaps adding the MC shield to the infobox (would also allow us to remove that grainy image from further down), and then we have the HoH shield on the billboard already in the article. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 06:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

All right, cool. I'd like to see your pics sometime! I also saw you put the MC-freeway shield in there. Even though the HOH sign is only used for a portion of it's length, I still think it would be useful to add there as long as it doesn't stretch the infobox template. Adding that would allow us to get rid of both the MC-freeway sign picture and the HOH image.

In the spot where the HOH image is, we could eventually replace it with an image of people lining the overpasses paying they're respect to the fallen soldier(s) passing by. I'm in the process of getting one such image available for use on Wikipedia, hopefully the author will agree. Other than that the only other major image we need is a shot of a service centre under (re)construction.

In addition I took the liberty of nominating the B&W propane explosion shot as a featured picture. Could use your support. Third time's a charm! [22] Haljackey (talk) 15:19, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

The infobox standards at WP:HWY (as far as I remember at least) require things in the infobox apply to the entire length of the highway. Technically we shouldn't even have the Highway of Heroes name in the infobox at all. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 20:40, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Yay! The author of [this image has allowed me to use it on Wikipedia! I'll upload it to the commons and add it to the article. Should it replace the HOH billboard image or be an entirely new image? I'll add it separately for now, allowing you to decide weather or not you want it to replace the billboard shot. Haljackey (talk) 19:16, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I've cropped and colour adjusted the photo a bit so I'm going to add that. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 20:40, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Cool, I like it! Although it would better if just a bit more red was added to make the Canadian flags stand out a bit more. In addition, here is the HOH shield. Can that be added to the infobox alongside the 401 and MC-freeway signs? As long as it doesn't stretch the infobox, I think it would add enough to the article to allow us to remove the HOH billboard image. Haljackey (talk) 22:10, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I've remade the Highway of Heroes shield as an svg (the png had a white background and shadow so it wouldn't have worked). I think the new infobox looks great, so I'm going to proceed to remove the two images that are no longer necessary. I'll try adding some red to the overpass image as well. Cheers, ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 02:31, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Wow, looks great! Removing those two images will help reduce clutter while those shields in the infobox will retain their encyclopedic value. The only thing I noticed is that the MC-freeway sign now looks out of place as a PNG image. It just doesn't have the level of detail as the other two and it stands out being in-between them. Glad you liked my idea! Haljackey (talk) 03:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Forgot to mention that I was going to get to that shield shortly. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 03:18, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Nice! With that one remade, every junction will have a nice looking shield. Except for Allen Road. Does that highway have a trailblazer thing like the DVP, Gardiner or black creek drive?

• Also, did you want me to get a shot of the 401/402 interchange from an overpass? Haljackey (talk) 23:48, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Black Creek Drive has a marker? I made the DVP one, I'll get around to the Allen in time. Forgot to add the DVP one to the exit list too. Yes, get a couple shots from different angles if you can. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 03:47, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

List of numbered roads in Durham Region

Hello, Floydian. I saw the subject article listed as a G7 CSD and wanted to come by and ask why. I'm kinda new at this so forgive me if my inquiry is at all improper. You don't owe me any explanation, but it appears a good bit of work went into the article. I realize another admin may execute the delete before you answer, but I'm loath to zap the article without your thoughts on the matter. Thanks Tiderolls 04:06, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

It was indeed a mistake on my part, and I ended up having to ask for deletion when I realized this afterwards. Thought it was a copy of the article in my userspace I was deleting but it had redirected me instead. All in all a good fail. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 17:03, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Provincial Highway vs King's Highway

Um, you are away that - from a legal standpoint - Ontario hasn't had "Provincial Highways" since the 1920s, and all highways (even secondaries and tertiaries) are not only legally designated as King's Highway, but all references to them by the MTO in one form or another (be it traffic counts, construction reports, etc) state "King's Highway" and not Provincial Highway. If you're using the name, and then stating "... also known as..." it's a misnomer to refer to them as provincial highways. For more information, please see Highway Traffic Act, Section 1(1). A link is available at http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm.

I'm not looking for an edit war, but unless you can come up with a better reason for referring to the highways incorrectly - and I don't think you can, since no one anywhere, including law and government, refers to them as provincial highways, I'm going to keep changing references to Provincial Highway XXX to King's Highway XXX, and I have the references to back up my edits.

Otherwise, I like what you've done with the articles. They look a heck of a lot nicer than they used to.

All the best, Snickerdo (talk) 04:08, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi Snickerdo. I'm the one who originally reverted your edit. You make a good point however. I will decide to stay out of this one and take the neutral ground.

If an agreement can't be reached, why not simply call it "Highway 401" instead of "Kings Highway 401", "Ontario Highway 401" or "Provincial Highway 401"? I've also heard it referred to as "the 401 Freeway". Haljackey (talk) 04:33, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm not trying to pick a fight here or anything :-) It's just that the correct legal and official government name is King's Highway. Why would anyone have any issue to changing Provincial Highway to read King's Highway in the various Ontario highway articles and, and leave any references to Highway alone without the word Provincial as is?

We should probably update the infoboxes. Any highway from 2-199 should be changed from Provincial Highway to King's Highway. Highways from 500-699 should be changed to Secondary Highway, and highways in the 800s should be changed to Tertiary Roads. Those are all the official names for the various class of highway. All references to the 407 should also be removed from the infoboxes, including the King's Highway shield, etc. I'd do this myself, but I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the inner workings of how that stuff works in the infobox.

Sound fair to everyone? Snickerdo (talk) 05:56, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I can do that. Give me a few days, however, as I'm certain I read somewhere that all the highways (2-406, 408-800+) are Provincial Highways legally (and this was a rather recent document, 1999 or 2001). I want to see if I can find this. Change away for now if you wish, I have no issue. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 06:00, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the infobox change. In addition, the 407 kings highway shield (in the infobox for the 401 article) should removed and replaced with these two images: File:407_ETR_logo.svg Haljackey (talk) 06:22, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. When I had first driven the highway, it had a normal Highway shield with the number 407 in it. This is what I see now checking Streetview,[23] so we should try to replicate that in the infobox presentation. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 06:52, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

The 407 never had a normal King's Highway shield, it always used the round corporate-looking logo. There are some green trailblazer assemblies in Peel Region that use a King's Highway cutout, but those are put up by the municipality and incorrect.

Once the Eastern extension is constructed, we'll probably want to split the article into two - one for the 407 ETR, and the other for what will end up being King's Highway 407. Snickerdo (talk) 04:07, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm assuming that would be fairly easy. Just put the ETR image below the 407 image, right? If you want it exact, make "express" in the text it's own line and increase the font a bit. I forgot these are signposts (reassurance markers or whatever they are called), not junction signs. Haljackey (talk) 14:30, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Don't even need the text part, just the logos really. No need to change the infobox either, it already classes highways into "Freeways", "King's Highway", "Secondary Highway" and "Tertiary highway". - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 16:09, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Hey Floydian, you made the shield images, right? I don't know if you're planning on doing this already, but it might be worthwhile to make a 407 shield for the 407 page similar to http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.348526,-79.831209&spn=0,0.033603&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=43.348367,-79.831194&panoid=or_dlFkJdRfxQvz-IbKGZg&cbp=12,21.56,,2,1.67 while keeping just the oval for lists. Just a thought. Snickerdo (talk) 04:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)