Talk:Durand Line

Vandalism

At 09:10 UTC on December 21, 2006, Afghanhot made a large number of changes to this article which included the removal of categorisation and addition of text from an article titled The Durand Line purported to be from the website [1]. First and foremost, articles of such nature should never be added in full to WP, particularly as this likely could give rise to violations of WP:COPY. Secondly, the nature of the changes suggest that they were made in a manner which violates WP:VAND. Changes have been reverted, and a warning has been placed on the user page for the user in question. Page will be monitored for 14 days on my watchlist to see if further inappropriate changes occur. thewinchester 16:28, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Durand line is as legitimate as most international boundary agreements

You read only the 1893 part. It appears that you've not read the scores of detailed pages, signed by dozens of Afghan and British representatives, mappers, and surveyors, from the 1894-95 boundary demarcation and surveying expeditions. This demarcation, similar to those recently done by many of the Arabian peninsula countries, was done with the full knowledge and agreement of the Afghan government and signed by their representatives. Every little nullah, mountain range watershed, and other boundary details were outlined and agreed upon. DLinth

If that's the case then why Pakistan always asks the leaders of Afghanistan for approval of placing a fence on its territory? Does the United States asks Mexico for approval of putting up a fence on its southern borders? Does any other country do this?

Have you seen all of the press reports over the past week where Musharaff says, "We don't need AF or any other nation's approval to build a fence just on our side of the border."? .--User:DLinth 19:05, 5 January 2007(UTC)

By the way, you forget the fact that British-India violated all the terms of the 1893 Durand Line agreement in 1919, when they invaded Afghanistan (see Third Anglo-Afghan war). After the 1893 Durand Line agreement was signed, the British decided to invade Afghanistan in 1919, violating the terms of the agreement and also losing the war. After the Third Anglo-Afghan war, the Durand Line agreement became Void and is no longer valid. Besides this, there are other reasons to believe the agreement no longer being valid. Pashtun Nov. 28, 2006

The Afghan government claims the Durand Line has expired in 1993.--Afghan Wireless 14:43, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Not true. The Afghan govt has never made that claim, knowing that it is false. See US and British experts in http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_1-2-2004_pg7_23 and http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_30-9-2005_pg7_12 Many websites do make the claim, such as "fake governmental-appearing" pages like www.affghanistans.com . --User:DLinth 19:04, 5 January 2007(UTC)

I've read the complete Durand Line agreement and I don't think it is an agreement of any kind, it's rather an early and temporary proposal of a deal. The agreement is very poorly made and very short, 6 or 7 sentences long, with only one person's signature from Afghanistan's side. I clearly see what the Afghans are challenging, and that is the authenticity of the Durand Line agreement. This is perhaps the reason what haunts Pakistanis the most and puts fear in them.

Knowing all the facts, I believe the Afghans can "at any time" claim their territories and there is not much Pakistan can do. I disagree with the statement on the article's front that every nation of the world recognizes the Durrand Line. Those nations only recognizes the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan as it is shown on most maps of the world, which is a common thing to do. Most nations of the world are fully unaware of the Durrand Line agreement. King

Reply from a Pakistani Pakhtun: The Pakistani govt asks Afghans for permission to fence the border because Pakistanis are dumb and too much into "Muslim brotherhood". There is no need to ask the Afghans for permission to do anything inside Pakistan, including fencing the border.

Regarding the comment from the fellow named "King", the Durand Line became the border of the Pakistani state in 1947. The original agreement also remains valid. Afghans can claim anything, their mouths are under their control, but the land is now Pakistan with the consent of the people living there.

Unknown Paki Pakhtun, this is not about what Afghan civilans who come here to edit articles say. This is about what is going on between the government of the two countries (Afghanistan and Pakistan). Whatever User:King stated is his own opinions about the Durrand Line and he did not claim to be an Afghan. From media reports, Afghanistan's government claims that the Durrand Line agreement had expired in 1993,

Not true. The Afghan govt has never made that claim, knowing that it is false. Many websites do make the claim, such as "fake governmental-appearing" pages like www.affghanistans.com . --User:DLinth 19:04, 5 January 2007(UTC)

while Pakistan's government claims it is still valid. So there is a dispute over the border between these 2 countries. Only a 3rd party can help resolve this dispute. If the territory belongs to Afghanistan, then it's their territory. If not, then it's not. Saying stuff like "Afghans can claim anything, their mouths are under their control" is an insult to all Afghans, which is not a good thing to do. You Pakis should respect your Muslim neighbors (Afghans), if you really are Muslims as you claim. If not, then Allah will be angry with you. --NisarKand 18:01, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Comments without categories

This is awesome !

I am removing the claim that Baloch are asking for independence and to unite with the Afghans since it is false.

A fellow named Mir Azad Baloch as put a ton of garbage into this article. I am removing it.

To Mr Azad Baloch: Next time use your real name, desist from insults and write facts. This online encyclopedia is not the property of your worthless Sardars.

Yes Mr. I dont say Balochs want to merge with Afghanistan or seek independence. I have nothing to say about Baluchs. I am only talking about Pushtuns living in Pakistan.

Reply: I am a Pashtun from Pakistan and there is no separatist movement here neither is there any desire to merge with Afghanistan or be independent. Pashtuns are Pakistanis. This idea that Pashtuns in Pakistan wish to leave is Afghan imagination. I am reverting this article to what it was.

Pashuns are not Pakistanis. Afghans are Pashtuns. The word "Afghan" was mentioned since the Islamic periods and onwards...refering to Pashtuns...which was way before the nation Afghanistan coming to existence. So the word Afghan does not mean someone from Afghanistan...but refers to Pashtuns. Only 15% of the people in Pakistan are Pasthuns. I am Pashtun from Afghanistan and I have no desire to make the 15% Pashtuns living in Pakistan to merge with us in Afghanista, as we don't see any benefits to this. The Pashtuns in Pakistan want to be ruled by a Punjabi as their ruler is perfectly fine with me.--NisarKand 16:55, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

POV

More POV by NisarKand! This article is once again filled with unsourced information and false claims, such as the Afghan legend that "Afghanistan defeated the United Kingdom twice" ... I have never seen ANY reliable scholarly source for this claim! Tājik 19:42, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually Afghanistan defeated the British not twice but 3 times. Since you are uneducated, you probably think that British defeated Afghanistan I assume? British invaded Afghanistan 3 times and were forced to withdraw...that's considered defeating them. In the first invasion...the entire British (about 16,500 or more...including Indians) were killed on their retreat from Kabul to Jalalabad. In the second invasion...the British again retreated and withdrew from Afghanistan. In the last war (in 1919...between British India and Afghanistan), British clearly raised a white flag (sign of retreat or defeat) and signed documents (the treaty of Rawalpindi) at Rawalpindi, which is a city now in Pakistan. By the way, articles in Wikipedia are never finalized because they are always under editing. I will be more than happy to gather all the references needed for this article, as you can see this information is available at many encyclopedias and government libararies.--NisarKand 18:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, so i've been in the background watching this article since it came up while I was doing some work as part of the recent changes patrol. The issues of NPOV are starting to escalate within this article and we now need to bring it to a resolution as soon as possible. I am prepared to step in as a third party to the matter, particularly since I have no connection to the regions covered by this article and can look at it from an outside perspective. My goal is that both Tajik and NisarKand can come to some form of consensus to deal with the NPOV issues that have arisen. In order to kick this off, can I please ask each of you to give a brief and factual summary of your issues with the article so we can take it from there. I would hope we can have this issue resolved promptly, however if this cannot be done I will be more than happy to escalate it up the chain to bring about a resolution. I don't want to protect this article, but if this is what it takes to come to a factual and neutral stance on the article so be it. thewinchester 14:49, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

This article is fine for now, there isn't much to add or edit because most important things are already mentioned. The Durand Line is simply a border made in the past and the people on both side of the border do not recognize it. User:Tajik has a habit of going around to every article I edit and place bad remarks about me. Trying to give me a bad name so that others don't trust my edits, which I simply go by what news sources report and place that report with the attach news sources. User:Tajik has issues and I don't know what his/hers exact problem is with me? From the first day I began editing articles on Wikipedia (begining of October 2006) until today, he is the ONLY person messing with me and my edits. By the way, I am ethnic Pashtun from Afghanistan and this Durand Line deals specifically and directly with Pashtun people, has nothing to do with ethnic Tajiks. Since there was nothing in particular disputed, I decided to remove the disputed tag.--NisarKand 15:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)