Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jeanfield Swifts F.C.

Jeanfield Swifts F.C.

Jeanfield Swifts F.C. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Amateur junior football club. Ordinarily those are nonnotable, but this one has been around since 1928 so I'm more comfortable with AFD than speedy here. NawlinWiki 19:04, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete Although this club has been around since 1928, there isnt much content about it. Its merely a list with the squad and club committee members. I wouldnt have thought its notable to anyone outside the local area. Id maybe change my mind if there were some details whats so notable and great about this club, as the article in its present state is at best a glorified list. --PrincessBrat 19:07, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
• Delete totally non notable and fails WP:CORP. Being formed in 1928 is not notable or unusual, most pub teams can trace roots back further than that. Nuttah68 19:32, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep - "Junior" in the Scottish context does not mean Under-18 players or anything like that. The Scottish Junior F.A. to which Jeanfield are affilated adminsters most of what would be "non-league" football in England. Several Junior clubs get much larger crowds than Scottish League Division Three, but there is no mechanism for them to move to come under the jurisdiction of the SFA and join the Scottish League. The Scottish Junior Cup final often draws a 5-figure crowd and is shown live on Scottish TV. If they were situated south of Hadrian's Wall, a club of this stature would be notable. Don't be put off by the word "Junior". In my opinion, all SJFA clubs would count as notable (there's another level, Scottish Amateur Football below that, and I certainly wouldn't vote to keep any club at that level) - fchd 19:50, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I have to respond as an Englishman to the Hadrians Wall comment - which was out of order. If this club is so great and attracts big crowds, why is the article so short and has nothign to offer? Id be prepared to retract my view if more detail is put into the article but I have doubts that it will. --PrincessBrat 20:54, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

It's actually quite a long article for a junior club. I started the article and haven't had much assistance along the way, not least due to the club's website being pulled by its board. - Dudesleeper · Talk 20:58, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

You might find some info worth adding here..... Just noticed it's already shown as a source..... 11:14, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

"Out of order"? If you think so, I apologise, but the point I was trying to make was that if this club were playing in an English League of a roughly equivalent standard, say the North West Counties League, there would be no prospect of deletion (e.g. See Holker Old Boys F.C. or Leek CSOB F.C.), and rightly so. - fchd 21:15, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

PrincessBrat, get over yourself. In what way was Richard's comment "out of order"? He was merely pointing out that this is a club of similar stature to the hundreds of English non-league clubs that are on Wikipedia at present. He has quite eloquently explained what the term "junior" football means in a Scottish context, and that for me should suffice to keep the article. By the way, that means I say keep as well. As for your comments about the article being short - that surely isn't a basis for deletion. Otherwise we have to go around deleting every stub article that exists on the website! furthermore the length of any article is purely a subjective matter and no basis for deletion. - Big Jim Fae Scotland 11:03, 7 March 2007

Yeah, I somehow doubt that Richard's off on some crusade against England, English people, or English football given that he comes from the West Country (of England) himself.... ChrisTheDude 11:08, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep - per fchd. Lazy nomination. - Dudesleeper · Talk 20:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep - per fchd. ArtVandelay13 20:35, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep - per fchd. Archibald99  20:39, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
• Keep though Comment: We should probably have a rule for how far down the Scottish football pyramid clubs automatically remain notable, in the same way as the English one (Level 10 being the limit IIRC). In Scotland at the moment, we appear to have Levels 1-4 (Scottish Premier/Scottish Leagues 1-3), Level 5 (Highland League etc.), followed by Junior football. Now are all the Junior league on one level (notable), or are there many levels, some of which would be notable, some not? Would someone more knowledgeable like to offer a guideline? EliminatorJR ^Talk 23:40, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

There are three regions: West (four tiers), East (three tiers) and North (also three). I'll defer to someone with more knowledge as to their notability, as I'm a relative newcomer to Scottish junior football's finer points. I'll enquire with Big Jim Fae Scotland, who started the SJFA article. - Dudesleeper Talk 23:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

It's difficult to place the SJFA clubs alongside the SFA ones, as I've said above, there isn't a mechanism for any interchange between the two. I'd certainly place them at least alongside the Highland clubs etc. If they were in England, I'd expect all but the bottom few North Region clubs to pass the notability claims, and as that would exclude so few I'd be inclined to include them as well to complete the "set". - fchd 05:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

As I have been mentioned here maybe I should post to sat that I agree with everything Richard (fchd) has said. We cannot readily categorise Scottish football at being at "levels" the same way as we can in England due to the absence of a pyramid system. However, if we were going to try and categorise the clubs as belonging to levels (or tiers) then we could probably identify eight in total (bearing in mind that this is purely my unofficial interpretation and there is no link between levels four and five, and the levels five to eight are wholly unconnected from one another except for some cup competitions), as follows:

• Level One (1 league, 1 division): Scottish Premier League
• Level Two (1 league, 1 division): Scottish Football League First Division
• Level Three (1 league, 1 division): Scottish Football League Second Division
• Level Four (1 league, 1 division): Scottish Football League Third Division
• Level Five (6 leagues, 6 divisions): Highland Football League; East of Scotland Football League Premier Division; South of Scotland Football League; Juniors West Region Super League Premier Division; Juniors East Region Super League; Juniors North Region Premier Division
• Level Six (4 leagues, 4 divisions): East of Scotland Football League First Division; Juniors West Region Super League First Division; Juniors East Region Premier Division; Juniors North Region First Division
• Level Seven (3 leagues, 6 divisions): Juniors West Region Central First Division; Juniors West Region Ayrshire Division; Juniors East Region South Division; Juniors East Region Central Division; Juniors East Region North Division; Juniors North Region Second Division
• Level Eight (1 league, 1 division): Juniors Eest Region Central Second Division

That is probably clear as mud to most people who aren't familiar with the intracate details of the bizarre way in which Scottish football has evolved. However, if we are determined to classify football clubs at belonging to some level or another then I think we can readily identify eight such "levels".

At any rate, I am firmly of the opinion that all "junior" clubs in Scotland are noteworthy and merit inclusion on Wikipedia. Indeed, I have written many of these articles myself and would be royally peed off if someone blithely started deleting them because they hadn't heard of the club themselves, or because the article is somehow too "short".

That's my tuppence worth anyway!

Big Jim Fae Scotland, 11:22, 7 March 2007

• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of football (soccer) related deletions.