Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Casey Serin

Casey Serin

Casey Serin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Massive, well-referenced attack page. The history is filled with too many anon edits to accurately sort out, but in its current state this article is in dire violation of BLP. The sheer amount of personal details (more like documented stalking) disclosed makes this article a candidate for deletion and oversight intervention. ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 02:42, 16 March 2007 (UTC) (Note: nomination was based on this revision) (Note 2: article is possibly the result of a vendetta documented at www.exurbannation.blogspot.com - see afd talk) ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 03:00, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. *What, if any, part of this article seems to you to be incorrect? It is all well researched and most of the facts come from Casey Serin himself. If this is a vendetta, it is a vendetta that is being engineered by posting only the truth. Why protect? Is he suffering from battered blogger syndrome?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.106.162.29 (talk • contribs)

• Agreed.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.175.105.234 (talk • contribs)

Most of the facts can be verified from Serin's own blog. I don't think any set of facts would be terribly flattering towards him, but he has achieved quite a bit of notoriety, so he meets eligibility requirements for a Wiki article, and it shouldn't be deleted. 12.215.162.213 03:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Personal blogs are not a reliable source. Serin's blog, in particular, provides only primary information and is bound to be biased. To attempt to manufacture notoriety by engineering an attack page is exactly the worst method of creating a Wikipedia article. ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 03:26, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.106.162.29 (talk) 03:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

Many of the facts in the article are verifiable via the linked public newspaper articles and linked public records. Photographic evidence exists for many of the ancillary facts (i.e. Jamba Juice, Macaroni Grill, The Murse, The Million Dollar Home). If there is a single statement in the article that you do not find credible, note it. You are making an argument to remove an article based on the fact that you don't find the content credible and have yet to point out a single part of it that is not credible.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.106.162.29 (talk • contribs)

User:70.106.162.29, please see Negative_proof. SkipSmith 04:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

To begin with, this article is basically libel bait. Over the past two hours I've seen editors add and subtract personal information, baseless speculation, and random accusations. The tone of this article is nowhere near Wikipedia standards for neutrality. I don't much care if the content is credible, my concern is that this is a biography tailored for the sole reason of disparaging its subject. Wikipedia is not a vehicle for character assassination, and the massive involvement by various blogs is detrimental to building any sort of encyclopedic article. ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 03:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. Serin is actually fairly well known among those discussing the housing bubble online. His blog has an Alexa ranking of 46,633, and has 130 pages linking in. I do agree that the page appears to violate WP:BLP and should be rewritten. SkipSmith 03:27, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. As a Realtor, and having followed the Casey Serin story since early October, and doing a good amount of reasearch on public records regarding his transactions, I believe the Casey Serin article is fair, accurate and unbiased as of 20:22 PST USA on 03/15/2007. There is considerable interest in the Mainstream Media about the story of Casey Serin, and the legal ramifications of his real estate transactions. Removing this article would be a disservice to Wikipedia, considering all the work and research that has gone into its creation. It is not an attack page. Instead, it is a well-researched and documented page that is important, regarding current real estate lending practices in the USA.

I see virtually no discussion of real estate lending practices in this article, but quite a bit of mudslinging. Saranary 03:53, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. The subject person is notable. Considerable amount of external references are being quoted. Agree though that there are un-encyclopedic comments and personal attacks going on. --PeterMarkSmith 03:45, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete or revise to be consistent with NPOV/BLP policies and protect from further edits. The page seems designed to humiliate and harass the subject. Since its inception, it has included offensive or insulting references to Serin's religion, nationality, marriage, family relationships, and appearance - none of which seem particularly relevant. I also question the repeated posting of his family members' names, photographs, and contact information. Saranary 03:48, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

• Comment. I think an article on Casey Serin should exist, but to claim that the article in its current form is unbiased is laughable. Do neutral encyclopedia articles contain phrases like "Visitors to his blog are usually surprised at his smug comments, where it's obvious he doesn't believe he has done anything wrong, and that he deserves a lifestyle which includes several luxuries he can't afford to pay" and "Serin's personal eccentricities: his habitually unkempt haircut, his carrying a murse (which he refers to as his "man bag"), and his obsession with juicing"? Like I said, I believe an article on Casey Serin should exist, but only if it adheres to WP:BLP. SkipSmith 03:50, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) Right now its little more than a liability. Serin's story is interesting, but not because of him as a person. Journalist coverage indeed used him as a "posterboy" to illustrate the volatile and absurd state of the real estate market. In a surprising, and not a little narcissistic twist, Serin embraced this image, and created a blog. All of the negative comments, the structure, research, and defacement of his article are the result of this circus. There are hundreds of speculators like Serin who are in debt because of business decision, singling him out to illustrate the phenomenon is simply a poor basis for establishing a biography. ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 04:06, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep but rewrite per SkipSmith. Serin definitely notable, much of the info is verifiable and there are some quality sources cited. So I wouldn't toss the whole thing out. But that said, "unbiased" is about the last word I would use to describe this article. The fairness of tone section of WP:NPOV and WP:AWW. And even though many of the statements are sourced, certainly not all of them are. And some of it blatant opinion. If you're adding in to a biographical article a statement such as "many readers of such-and-such blog feel this certain way" about the subject, there's a pretty good chance that statement shouldn't be there. Mwelch 04:03, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. Serin is a notable figure who has over 40,000 Google hits as of the present date. He has been featured in various magazines and other media, and is well-known among the real estate blogging community. The fact that he himself has been blogging about his financial debacle makes him even more notable. a49erfan 04:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep and Protect Needs protected from libel and other content, but it is quite notable and seems mostly verified at present. Kopf1988 04:08, 16 March 2007 (UTC)