Talk:Brown-eyed soul

Dubious list

What is this.... a joke???? Tony Bennett is a pop/jazz performer and a good one. Connie Francis is a pop/rock & roll(oldies)/Italian ballad singer of the early 60's...Bloodstone is an African-American R&B group (google their cover) The same with War led by Lee Oskar - please see their videos on youtube... Jim Croce is a singer/songwriter. If you are going to list anyone... Here's a nice temporary list.... Tierra, Natalie, Frankie J, etc... Bloodstone and War may have been listed because they had some Latin influence...then if that's the case - might as well list African-American artist, Debelah Morgan (Dance With Me)...which would make this list seem questionable.

"Soul" is not a term to be thrown about loosely. According to the Rolling Stone Illustrated History Of Rock last published in 1993. "Soul" probably began as rhythm and gospel and the earliest artists were Sam Cooke, Ray Charles, Clyde McPhatter & Ben E. King who were both lead singers of the Drifters, and the Isley Brothers. "Soul" music came from the African American gospel churches (e.g. the original version of "Shout.") So crooners that were on this list were omitted because they have nothing to do with "soul." The others I left on are actually doo-wop artists not "soul artists." Doo-Wop is an older style that owes a lot more to the Mills Brothers, The Ink Spots, The Orioles and The Ravens.

Deleted Dean Martin and some others as well... If you are going to list a crooner such as Martin...then list Frank Sinatra and also Sammy Davis Jr.- then the entire list will be bogus...Dean Martin's idols were Bing Crosby and Perry Como - incidentally you might as well include the latter since he too is Italian... Really - Martin specialized in big band standards and pre-rock pop music.

Frankie Valli shouldn't be deleted - after all they had 2 number ones on the R&B charts in 1962 but technically they were a doo-wop act.

I don't want to come in and start editing it...So please check your sources before putting stuff in...."Use Wikipedia to start."

Added Amanda Perez to the list.

20:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Definition?

What exactly IS the page supposed to be about? Why is Jennifer Lopez on ANY sort of "soul" page? Is it because she is Latina? If so, then why not Eydie Gorme, who actually had some soul sound besides being Latina to boot? I would put her plus The New York Dolls in there. The Dolls started as a Latin/Soul band, check their history. Their original drummer was Colombian, a guitarist was Sicilian, and another guitarist is/was Sfaradim. I would say there is no "soul music" anymore, the person's ethnicity was never the defining factor, and samplers/"beats" come more from Avant-Guarde. The shrieking of "neo-soul" comes from the likes of Yoko Ono, more AG. Twisted Sister could fit in the catagory of BES as Dee Snider is heavily gospel influenced(ex-choirboy)("Iam, I'm me!") and has gospel turns and codas in his music as well. Don't forget Eddie Ojeda who is Latino.

IMNSHO, the topic is a waste of space.JBDay (talk) 18:09, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Agree with you

I put the first comment on the board...and I believe this page should be deleted...Need real proof...There are Latin R&B Singers, even though some of these bands listed are actually either latin rockers or latino garage bands....And the majority of the Italian groups here are doo-wop artists which is entirely different from "soul." It requires a more structured style of singing... Less free-form... However I disagree with what you consider 'soul.' - since your arguments are really subjective. I don't consider power chords a part of soul.. or 'blame it on the bossa nova' as soul music...or any of Yoko's singing - that is probably your opinion. Singing in a gospel choir doesn't make one a soul singer... If one applies that logic - then Jimmy Swaggart probably qualifies as well...

Since today's soul or the better termed (R&B) is probably more or less hip-hop based. Soul music emerged with The Civil Rights Movement in the late 50's through the 60's. It was the music of the churches in Black America that was incorporated with the r&b music of the time. The best definition comes from the Rolling Stone's History Of Rock & Roll last published in 1993.

20:53, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Damning with faint praise

I think the catagory of "Brown-Eyed Soul" is more or less an attempt to provide a catchall for several FORMERLY related and FORMERLY existant styles. I do not see J.Lo as being BES as I do not consider samples/vocoders soul. If someone such as her who has more in common with a terrible lounge singer or female impersonator is BES, then a band which has real roots in Italian/Latin/Gospel such as TS belongs there as well. Reread my post and you will see that I was NOT saying that Yoko Ono is any form of soul. I was saying that the modern stuff with samples that is passed off as soul/r'n'b is more like her than real soul music. Being black doesn't make soul music. As for soul's origins, it basically was an amalgam of Italian/Latin/as well as black. I don't agree with The definition you mentioned. I was in the thick of things back then as a child and I know that Italian opera/choral music had an influence on soul. The Latin thing as well. The race thing came about because of segregation, now all are free to be aurally assaulted by screeching melismatics backed by computer thuds regardless of ethnicity. Hiphop comes from deejays who were into Kraftwerk, a most non-soulful thing if I've ever heard one. Jimmy Swaggart is more soulful that that anyday. The race thing is a dead end as far as what actually matters in music. I would also consider Vanilla Fudge to have been Brown-Eyed Soul. The topic is frozen in time and ought be deleted.JBDay (talk) 23:14, 18 December 2007 (UTC)