Talk:List of One Piece episodes (seasons 1–8)

FUNimation Uncut Episodes

Should this Section be edited to include FUNi's Uncut Episode Titles as they come out? Should another Section be made? Something should be done since the First DVD is already out. User:DemonRin 08:41, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

This is something I've been wondering for awhile now. More specifically, I'm wanting to know if there's ultimately any point to listing the FUNi episodes on the dubbed list, since they're not cutting and editing episodes like 4Kids was doing, and they're re-dubbing and re-releasing the first 143 episodes as well. I'll probably end up asking about this and a related DBZ issue at the main animanga project page. —Dinoguy1000 17:13, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I replaced the old titles for episodes 1-13 with FUNi's titles. There's no reason to really go with alternative translations when professionally translated ones are readily available. Plus, these translations are more accurate anyway - how the crap anyone got "Showdown Between the True Powers of the Devil" from "Akuma no Mi no Nōryoku Taiketsu!" is beyond me. If anyone has a problem with the FUNi titles being used, please provide a good reason as to why Joe Fansubber's translations should take priority over Clyde Mandelin's professional work, or even over some random Wikipedia guy who happens to be just as bilingual as the fansubber. AdamantBMage (talk) 19:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Navigation

Forgive me if I don't follow the formating for adding a post to this page. I don't edit wikipedia much because what I can do is limited not knowing the conventions or coding. I can never make myself learn the conventions used because I can't justify the effort considering how little I edit wikipedia. All I ask this one time is you look past my horrid formating to answer the question I am trying to pose. What happened to the navigation at the top of the page in the past four days. The history for the 26th of May had the one I'm referring to. It was organized and easy to use, the best out of any episode list I've seen on wikipedia, which for some reason has become my de facto source for watching a new anime or checking when episodes come out in japan, but has since been replaced with a standard list that in addition to not fitting on one screen length for most users takes longer to express less information. Just asking why it was removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.205.165.79 (talk) 18:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

It was not appropriate at all and violates our MoS. We do not use that sort of system of navigation. The standard menu is sufficient, and will be even more so when this article is cleaned up. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 18:34, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Just to say I agree with 68.205.165.79. The page was excellent, probably the best episode guide on Wikipedia. The standard menu is not clear enough in comparison. That’s a reel loss in term of clarity of information, and therefore, of time. -- [[::User:Loriquet|Loriquet]] ([[::User talk:Loriquet|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Loriquet|contribs]]) 02:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Loriquet (talk • contribs)

It was very appropriate. I'm not going to argue if it violates the MoS, but instead argue if it increases the effectiveness of navigation. What good is the MoS if it hinders an articles worth because it's impossible to navigate? The previous navigation provided a gateway to the rest of the article by organizing the arcs visually. The standard ToC is woefully inadequate in this context; there is nothing to indicate what episodes an arc comprises of or what saga it's a part of, and it doesn't make use of the horizontal space taken advantage of beautifully by the previous navigation. This is very non-intuitive and annoying to use. Qtcider (talk) 00:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

To both of you, no, it does not lose information, no the previous navigation was not a good thing. This is not a fansite, nor a personal webpage. Consistency is important between articles. The standard TOC is perfectly acceptable and provides the appropriate navigation. It is not impossible the navigate, the arcs are very likely to be stripped out, so that won't be an issue. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 01:16, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

You think in programmer instead of thinking in designer. A user doesn’t care if the MoS are violated or not. He just wants the information he needs as quickly as possible. That’s not the case here.

See, I have a large screen, using a high resolution, but, when I arrive on the page, I don’t see the menu entirely! Ergonomically speaking, that’s bad, really bad. Personally, I don’t want to go to the end of the page to see if new episodes have been released, if I can have the information on the top (and I don’t even talk about the problem of spoilers by navigating on the page!).

The real progress is, when someone has a good idea (here, a horizontal menu), to reproduce it. I think every episodes guides on Wikipedia should take example on what was the previous version of this one. Not the contrary…

PS: I’m French, so excuse me if I make some mistakes. [[::User:Loriquet|Loriquet]] ([[::User talk:Loriquet|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Loriquet|contribs]]) 21:02, 03 June 2008 (UTC)

Um, no, I think in both as I am both. The episode list is going to be completely reorganized, so it does not matter. The menu was not appropriate, now or then, nor do we do anything to attempt to hide spoilers. Wikipedia is not a spoiler free zone. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I was wondering what happened to the navigation menu as well. From what I can gather, the reason it was changed is because it violates the Manual of Style for Wikipedia, and for the sake of consistency, the navigation menu was removed. However! As several people have mentioned, people found the original menu much more ergonomically sound. The very first thing written on the Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style is that "Editors should follow [Wikipedia's Manual of Style], except where common sense and the occasional exception will improve an article." The article continues on, saying, "If an article has been stable in a given style, it should not be converted without a reason that goes beyond mere choice of style." This episode list article has been stable for quite some time already; many have enjoyed great benefit from the original format, and it has greater practical use than the currently existing version. Unless you can provide a case in which the format of the article created any threat other than stylistic choice, I see little reason not to return it to its original format. The entire reason that a Manual of Style was created is to make the article as easily approachable as possible, to prevent confusion. The original was much easier to navigate, and was a clear and well thought-out presentation of the information. I'm sure that you mean for the best, Collectonian, but if you would reconsider the changes to this article, I'm sure many will be grateful. -- Kkchong (talk) 21:23, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd actually agree that it worked for the page as it was, but the page should be changing dramatically soon - namely, the list will be broken up into several pages. Then the usual table of contents will work just fine. Doceirias (talk) 21:26, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Again, no, it will remain as it is, with a standard navigational menu. It was not appropriate, and the old menu did not improve the article at t all. Also, you are selectively quoting from completely unrelated sections of the MoS, which is a bad method for attempting to support your choice. The aritcle will be brought in line with the actual relevant MoS guideslines, including the project guidelines for episode lists. The MoS was also made for consistency, which the standard menu provides. There is nothing in the MoS at all that supports a hacked up menu over using one of the standard ones. It will be left in the standard format and the list clean up will continue.-- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

What I did was not "selective quoting". It is the very first thing shown at the top of the Manual of Style, reflecting an overriding philosophy that the Manual of Style represents. The claim that the original menu is not an improvement is unbased (and please be careful with your spelling--!); many comments that run before you claim that it functioned much better. The 'ease-of-use' of an article is determined by its readers, first and foremost. Do not forget, in serving the great Wikipedia project, that the ones Wikipedia is made for are its readers. Wikipedia is not made for the sake of the rule book; a set of rules has no use for, and cannot enjoy the knowledge provided by Wikipedia, unlike you and I. On another note, if the page will be changing dramatically, as Doceirias has mentioned, I await their change and will trust that they will provide the best they can for us; if there are any things that can be done to improve the new article, I will be glad to help. -- Kkchong (talk) 21:48, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

NOTE: For those looking for the original format with a Navigation bar and filler labeling, etc., I've moved it over to the Episode Guide at the One Piece Wikia. The article here at Wikipedia can now be improved to wikipedia's standards, while those that wish for more fan-related information can head on over there. Hopefully, this can satisfy everyone! (I've spent a lot of time on this) -- Kkchong (talk) 16:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

List organization

The "arcs" and "Saga" names here appear to be fan-created splits, and not actual official titles. This is not a valid way to split the list at all. The think the episodes need to be reorganized and resplit, preferably along simpler lines. Funimation is releasing the series in season sets, suggesting it does have official seasons. As such, I propose the list here be split like such:

• Season 1 (episodes 1-26)
• Season 2 (episodes 27-52)
• Season 3 (episodes 53-78)
• Season 4 (episodes 79-104)
• Season 5 (episodes 105-130)
• Season 6 (episodes 131-156)
• Season 7 (episodes 157-182)
• Season 8 (episodes 183-208)
• Season 9 (episodes 209-234)
• Season 10 (episodes 235-260)
• Season 11 (episodes 261-286)
• Season 12 (episodes 287-312)
• Season 13 (episodes 313-338)

And then two seasons can be combined into a single subpage, mimicking List of Naruto episodes.

Alternatively, we can split along the changing in opening themes:

• Episodes 1-47
• Episodes 48-116
• Episodes 117-168
• Episodes 169-206
• Episodes 207-263
• Episodes 264-279
• Episodes 279-283
• Episodes 284-325
• Episodes 326-

I believe organizing it around either of these methods will produce a cleaner, easier to navigate list and remove some of the most visible WP:OR on the page. Thoughts? -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 01:37, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

We could also follow the Japanese releases, which did start breaking it down into chunks after a while - that does leave a very long first season, and might be a bit harder to verify, but it is closer to the story based arcs currently being used. Doceirias (talk) 01:41, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Good idea Collectonian, List of Naruto episodes seems like a fine precedent. Copy-paste the layout, then write over it. I'll help fill in any details if needed. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:50, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I've been conflicted for a long time on what the proper organizational tool is for separating into "seasons." List of Naruto episodes goes every 26 episodes, but I don't know whether that arbitrary number is a season, or the opening themes designate a season (which seems more logical, given that opening themes tend to characterize the content they're covering). However, if we went by opening seasons for the Naruto episodes, then we would be doing every 25 episodes per season, not every 26 episodes. The Bleach episodes at List of Bleach episodes go by this route, although they have the benefit of named and defined story arcs that double as seasons, similar to List of YuYu Hakusho episodes. That said, IGN defines one Naruto season as 26 episodes (see here for an example), so I guess that's official. And the DVD set boxes each house 13 episodes, so two boxes cover a season, so I guess it makes sense that way too. What makes this odd is that the Bleach episodes go by opening themes that clearly define story arcs (that are officially named), so I guess it's just a difference between series.

And to stop a similar thing from occurring here, I've also been irked for a while how the Naruto episodes were arbitrarily put into double season lists (List of Naruto episodes (seasons 1-2), List of Naruto episodes (seasons 3-4), etc.), and I have really big misgivings about fixing up and bringing List of Naruto episodes (seasons 5-6) to WP:FLC for a tougher crowd than the first two went through when it's subject to such an arbitrary split. I suggested a couple months ago that they could be split, but that discussion never really got off the ground. As such, I think we should consider splitting the respective episode lists into individual season pages (List of Naruto episodes (season 1), List of Naruto episodes (season 2), etc.). We'll lose two FLs, but they can be brought back to WP:FLC and passed with a small bit of cleanup and little fuss (and we'll end up with 4 FLs over two anyway :p). My main point in this rant is to avoid something similar happening here, and to make sure that individual season articles get created. I might start a discussion at Talk:List of Naruto episodes over this in a bit. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 09:18, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to comment at the discussion at Talk:List of Naruto episodes#Breaking the season lists, round two. Cheers, Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 09:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd be fine with individual season lists as well. I only suggested doubles because of Naruto :P (though sometimes I wish I'd done doubles with the Lassie episode list, and its 19 seasons LOL -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

So, any final thoughts here? If we go by season, should we go with Funimation's season divisions, or the theme change divisions? -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:31, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Theme change divisions were every bit as random as anything; I'd go with Funimation's. Doceirias (talk) 21:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Alrighty, lets start redoing the list into the seasons noted, so we can then get the US list merged in. Anyone want to join in the fun? -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:49, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Bringing the list up to snuff

Did a chunk of it today, changing the fields in episodes 14-300something to the correct format. You can help; remove the image caption field, add |JapaneseTitle = and |KanjiTitle = below |EnglishTitle = and then copy and past the kanji title from the list at ja:ONE PIECE (アニメ) here. That way, all I have to do is transliterate them. Doceirias (talk) 03:16, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Anime Only ("Filler")

When an anime is made from a manga, the anime is produced faster and therefore the plot of the anime quickly catches up to the manga. It is therefore neccassary to pad the anime with extra plot so that the manga can catch up. This is called "filler". Its not that hard to read a manga and then watch an anime and realize that some of the stuff that's in the anime is not in the manga.

This is useful information. For example, me and my friends are currently watching the entire One Piece Series and we've agreed to skip over the filler. We use the valuable information on Wikipedia to help us decide which episodes are worth watching. Since this information has been repeatedly deleted from Wikipedia we are forced to use http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Episodes .

If you insist that filler is a subjective term, then let us use the term "Anime Only" or "Not in the Manga" or "Original for the Anime". But this is verifiable information, its not something that fans just made up.

32.97.110.142 (talk) 20:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

No. This is a list of the ANIME episodes. They are all "anime only." I'm glad you've turned to the wikia. A fansite like that is an appropriate location for such labeling, not here. Now please stop trying to add the labels back, as they are subjective and do not belong here at all, nor do any other substitute labels. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:15, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Even on the wikia we'd only allow them in the form of "category". I'll admit foremost that they are indeed not appropreate here and not worth mentioning. If you really want a list of fillers, any forum will happily supply you with it if you just ask the members nicely. ¬_¬' Angel Emfrbl (talk) 22:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Could you explain exactly why this label is not allowed? As I've explained, some episodes are based on content from the manga and some aren't. If you actually watched these animes you might realize that. You haven't demostrated to me that this is in any way subjective. If you can point me to a wikipedia style guide that specifically says that this is inappropriate, fine. But otherwise, stop being obsesive. Its not like it costs wikipedia money to have this useful information availible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.32.149 (talk) 06:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Its trivia and fancruft and it does not belong per project consensus and the episode list guidelines. Its not anything that belongs here, period. Check any of our featured anime lists. At best, we may mention that a season is a filler season when it can be properly sourced to a reliable source (which does not include you saying so, any fansites, nor a wikia). -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 06:54, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

For those willingly to bother looking it up... Supply the Jump Magazine issue refs (for those who actually know what these things are -_-' ) and they can go. Now I know the Ice hunter arc WAS mentioned in J.Mag but I'm not going to hunt this crazy thing down because I haven't the time to do this sort of thing anymore. Also I don't have a clue when the issue was out, but it was around about mid-Thriller Bark arc (manga wise).

If anyone knows which issue it is, but needs a quick lesson in how to write refs because I'm a gullible fool who has nothing better to do with the time I do have spare because it benefits wikipedia overall. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 19:58, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

To clarify, having a source does NOT mean a label can be added to every last episode as "filler" or "anime only" or any other such label. A source can be used to note in the lead that this season of episodes are filler episodes. That's the limit of filler labelling. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah if anyone really needs to be spoon fed on where to put it... That note usually goes somewhere at the top or the bottom of the page (but not in a trivia section, heaven forbid don't add a trivia section to a page after our crusade a few months back to get rid of them). Or just under the contents it involves if there is room for it there, its preferred. I shouldn't have to write this down though. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 20:14, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually I meant as part of the lead prose, same as with the Naruto episode lists. A single sentence. Nothing more, worked into the lead. Nothing in the table, or beyond. :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Lol. I don't go to the Naruto pages, but I do visit other pages. Most of the ones I visited have it in other places, so I presumed this is alright. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 07:52, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, Collectonian, but the original poster of this "Discussion" is right on. There is absolutely no need to discard the 'filler' or 'anime only' tags. Many people view these lists EXPLICITLY for that reason. Calling it 'subjective' and claiming it needs a 'source' is completely unnecessary, and quite frankly, redundant. Please stop removing the filler tags. -- [[::User:Devin3m|Devin3m]] ([[::User talk:Devin3m|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Devin3m|contribs]]) 01:16, 7 June 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devin3m (talk • contribs)

No reason except the clear consensus established by the majority of editors on Wikipedia. If you want that info, go to the Wikia. It does not belong here. Doceirias (talk) 05:45, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

No, the tags do not belong. As Doceirias already noted, consensus by the whole of Wikipedia is that it does not. Its trivial fancruft that is better suited for the One Piece Wikia. Go there to find the filler/non-filler. We do not use such tags here. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 05:47, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Strickly speaking, that information is illrelevent sinc emost OP fans these days know whats filler and whats not. You really don't have to mention it at all. When I first came to wikipedia that wasn't the case and a lot still didn't. To mention it now days, its like dumbing it down. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 07:52, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Definitely! Once you become a fan, you automatically memorize all the information about the series. I applaud you on you insight. Why would a fan need Wikipedia to provide useful information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.210.39.120 (talk) 04:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is suppose to be an quick read on any one subject, its not asking to be a expert on the subject at hand. Anyone should be able to log onto ANY page and get a quick answer on things like "What is a Tiger". If your intereasted, your suppose to take wikipedia as a starting point - there are things elsewhere that can tell you more in-depth on the subject. In our case I can tell you that the main OP site Arlong Park, the OP Wikia and "Save One Piece" pretty much cover all the details on the show between them that a fan would really want to know with "Save One Piece" just catching all the loose bits on the 4Kids show that Arlong PArk and the OP Wikia doesn't have. Angel Emfrbl (talk) 07:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Alternative to way to say which episode is filler

There's a debate here on whether a "filler" tag be added to episodes which are not based in the manga. Personally, I believe that including such a tag does not violate any "rules" wikipedia have. Yes, filler might be a term that is not official (not intended by producers to be called that way), but it is descriptive. And descriptive aspects are what Wikipedia is looking for. The real thing that should be debated is whether the "filler" term is known to most readers of this article or not. If it is not, then why not wiki-link the first "filler" tag to filler (media)? And as a final note to all who argue against the inclusion of filler tags: filler may be a fan term but our language is so dynamic that it can generate new words out of different sources. Who knows, the "filler" tag might have a Webster entry in the future.

Well, too much for my own arguments. Here is my alternative: Why not create a new column in the table which tells which manga chapters a certain episode is covering? If an episode is a filler, then we can just leave some note for that episode in that column. eStaRapapax ^{xapaparatse! exsatpaarpa!} 06:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)