Talk:Andre the Giant Has a Posse

Older comments

Is it worth while mentioning the possible influence of Barbara Kruger's work on the OBEY posters/stencils? This article here http://www.loudpapermag.com/article.php?id=10 mentions her influence on Fairey.

Also, I believe that if this article is to be cleaned up, there doesn't necessarily need to be an explanation of why Andre the Giant was chosen, but perhaps a link/better explanation of the concept of memes.

Though this certainly isn't the most concise or well-written article on Wikipedia, I don't believe that the cleanup tag is necessary. I'm going to delete it; perhaps whoever posted the tag originally can correct whichever parts they saw as messy or erroneous. --Bumhoolery 06:14, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

I still don't get what the entire "Andre the Giant Has a Posse" is all about. Someone please give me a satisfying answer. Why did they choose Andre for this pop culture Icon? Because he was a giant? What do they mean by posse? Where they fans of the Wrestler?

I find it frustrating that this icon has become so popular yet no one can explain what the hell it even has to do with any foundation in logic.

I agree, I'm going to put up a cleanup - confusion - tag and ask that someone who knows to edit this article so that it is actually clear just what it's about. It's very frustrating to read an article and by the end still have no idea what's going on Graphia 06:58, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi. Having known Shepard, Blaze, Brian, the Shank twins, the Drex (gawd what a crappy ramp they had) and many more in Charleston (actually Summerville) in '86, I can tell you that the 'Andre' thing came about because the real Andre was performing locally and there was an ad in the paper. He drew it for no other reason than bored teenagers doodle and goof around. Then he xeroxed it till it was almost illegible, made sticker sheets and it just sorta rolled from there. I have a few original paper stickers and some of the first vinyl ones somewhere around. I hate to tell you but there is NO LOGIC, NO MEANING behind it. I think that's the best part, some people get so worked up BECAUSE it doesn't mean anything and they either feel that it should or they innately NEED it to mean something, otherwise I suppose it fucks up their little worldview. Anyways, that's the story. Sbrawner 02:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

The Batman factoid bothers me because the film came out in 1989, the same year cited in the creation of the meme. I've also reviewed the Batplane scene and saw no Giant faces on any buildings. I'm not deleting the mention of Batman in the entry because I might be missing something, but it is very unlikely that the meme would be in a blockbuster film shot in England the same year it was created by students in Rhode Island.

I agree, I'm changing the movie reference to Batman Forever, based on a a few mentions on the internet. Could somebody who has Batman Forever on DVD please confirm? Theinfo 04:32, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

WWF / WWE / Titan Sports / WWFE

Titan Sports (formerly Capitol Sports, now WWFE) is the former WWF's parent company and legal entity, whereas "WWF" is a product name or brand. Titan Sports'/WWFE's "WWF" could no more sue someone than Ford's "Taurus" could. Additionally, "WWF" is its own entity, being the World Wildlife Foundation.

List of cities

Someone include a list of cities where this is found?
The main problem with that is it is found in most cities around the US, and hundres more around the world.

reason for Andre the Giant

"I realized that a lot of people didn't know what it was about," he explains later, during an interview at Black Market Design, the successful graphic arts firm he co-owns in San Diego. "But they liked it because they knew that the conservative people hated it. Initially, I wanted to elevate Andre out of the wrestling subculture to be on par with more mainstream cultural icons. That was the coup -- to raise Andre out of a subculture he should be embedded in."

"Even my very first print ad in 1992 was a picture of Elvis with 'Big' underneath and then a picture of Andre with the word 'Giant.' So it was saying that Andre is bigger than Elvis. I also did a shirt called 'The Famous Dead People Shirt,' which was a grid of nine people with Marilyn Monroe, James Dean, Jim Morrison, Bob Marley, Sid Vicious and Andre the last one in the corner."

source: http://www.salon.com/people/feature/2000/06/22/fairey/

Message from one of the "co-founders"

Seeing as how I am regularly listed on this page, I check back on it now and again. I am blown away by the little things that people know about this, that I thought only I knew. (And the stuff that I have to correct, but that's no surprise.)

Anyhow, Barbara Kruger should get proper credit for her influence on Shepard's work, post-'93. The original OBEY sticker is a direct nod to her work, and Kruger's work is so influential with so few people realizing it, that it deserves credit here. I seem to remember an interview where he comes out and gives her due credit.

Yep, here it is.

http://www.tlchicken.com/view_story.php?ARTid=640

"I also remember going to New York in 1990, a year after I started making the original Andre stickers, and seeing all the graffiti on the freeways, and what lengths people were going to, to get up some impressive pieces. That's one of the things that made me want to do bigger stuff. Barbara Kruger, also. Her really bold, powerful combination of images and type heavily influenced me. The idea of maximizing your communication in something you can look at for a split second."

added meaning section, removed confusing tag

I've added a meaning section. It's funny how the act of trying to explain something gives you an insight you didn't have before, but I don't have any inside information. I invite somebody who does to confirm my thoughts. Theinfo 04:44, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

POSSE?

What does "POSSE" means

Group of people, or perhaps more accurately a following. Mathmo 10:39, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

OBEY

Shouldn't the main article here be the OBEY campaign and "Andre the giant has a posse" just part of that... I mean these days, Obey is a much bigger thing...

I completely agree. Obey Giant is so much more than this one image. Shepard Fairey has created over 380 prints for the Obey Giant campaign. It is after all obeygiant.com . If we moved this to Obey Giant, or Obey, we could include so much more, including toys, clothing, prints, gallery /fine art and more.

Appearances in pop culture

This area is a little absurd. There are just too many. If we want to keep this, I think we should keep the major ones. This is taking up valuable space that could be used for real information. This article covers less than 1% of what Obey Giant is today.

I've created a subpage of this talk page so we can re-organize and cut down that section before fixing it in the article. Please help me out at Talk:André the Giant Has a Posse/Pop Culture References Rewrite. Thanks. Stale Fries ^{taste better} 04:29, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

As a start, I suggest removing all references to bands/people/etcetera that are red links. I assume those are not as notable. In fact, I'll do it now. Stale Fries ^{taste better} 04:31, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Split?

If we want to keep this article titled "André the Giant Has a Posse", I think we need to make an new article called "Obey Giant". Obey Giant is so much more than this now. Personally I think we need to move this to "Obey Giant" and start putting information in here that covers more than just andre.

split off appearances

definitely overdue for a split Theinfo 04:14, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Lee Harvey Oswald was a Patsy

I have always read that the Andre the Giant Has a Posse sticker was an original design, and not necessarily a spoof of anything; however, ever since I first saw it I knew it was a coy reference to something, although I couldn't put two and two together.

Then I came across this old flyer from the 60's about Lee Harvey Oswald. I am almost certain that this was the source of the campaign, but I can't seem to find any information about the Oswald flyer. I placed a graphic of it on the main page but I would like to know if anyone can pinpoint the source of the Oswald flyer, and if the artist behind Obey Giant has ever referred to it. I suspect it's relatively obscure and the 60's were before my time so maybe an older contributer can help me out here. Thanks.

- In Response: The "flyer" you posted here does use a modified version of Lee Harvey Oswald's mug shot (which can be seen unedited here), but I'm 99% sure that the text was added to mimic the Andre the Giant Has a Posse sticker. Take away that text and you're left with little to compare. This Lee Harvey Oswald poster does seem to fit the style of the many Andre/Posse spin-offs and parodies. It seems to work more in that direction than the other way around. That is to say, it would be a better fit if this image you've found were a parody of the Andre/Posse poster rather than an inspiration for it. If the latter were true, then the Andre/Posse poster would bear a much more obvious resemblance. The original Lee Harvey Oswald mugshot was of better quality, as one can see in the link above or by simply checking the Lee Harvey Oswald article; the "patsy" version seems to have deliberately been degrated in quality to more closely resemble the original Andre/Posse image. Of course, this is all deduction, I know not if the poster you put on here actually did exist some 40 years ago. I think it's less likely that it was a decades-old inspiration and far more likely that it's one of many, many parodies that surfaced after the original Andre campaign took flight. -'tero

lee harvey oswald sticker moved here

File:Harveypatsy.jpg

Lee Harvey Oswald flyer and presumed inspiration for the Andre the Giant campaign.

I'm moving the Lee Harvey Oswald photo here, since it just seems to be just speculation that it's an inspiration. Perhaps it's just a coincidence. It's certainly an interesting find. Anyone who knows more, please chime in. --Theinfo 14:19, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

possible vandalism?

What is this? It's not written in coherent English, and appears to have nothing to do with the content of the article. It looks like some sort of weird vandalistic attempt at self promotion.

"In Hamburg Germany the artist pop.ac formerly known as Art Collart invented 1987 art with stickers and called it Art Collé. 1999 he changed his name into pop.ac - pop.ac is also website and mantra. -"

Added a photo, but can't seem to get the thumbnail to display

Added a "Make Art Not War" example to the "Meaning" section, but despite the "thumb" parameter, only the large version appears. A little help anyone? (fixed--it was the "frame" attribute) Marsh 13:51, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

"tattoo schema"

I've never heard of a tattoo schema. What is it?

Little Miss Sunshine

In the 2006 movie Little Miss Sunshine, Dwayne DOES NOT wear an Obey shirt . It is actually big brother's face from the 1956 film "1984".

Actually he is wearing one.
Dwayne with the shirt on.
The print it is based off of.

--72.195.138.162 13:39, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, you're wrong :). That picture you linked is definitely not OBEY, and it definitely looks more like Big Brother. Stale Fries ^{taste better} 04:34, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Again... I hate to do this. But you must no be looking at the pic, or your brighness is up too high. There is even an obey star (with andre's face in it) on his forehead (in the shirt). If you cant see it, take it in photoshop and change the levels. It is there 100%.

--72.195.138.162 20:23, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

It definitely is an Obey shirt.

Ok, man, that is definitely a Big Brother shirt. it looks NOTHING like Andre the Giant. I'm erasing the fact in the article.

4.244.120.144 21:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

It is 100% guaranteed, Ill put my money where my mouth is, an Obey Giant Shirt. The print is called Big Brother 2. Shepard Fairey did it in 2001. Here is a link. Trust me on this one. I have even enhanced the image in photoshop, and enlarged it so you can see. [1]
--Noverflow 13:37, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Shepard lifted it from the original 1984's film's Big Brother poster. Here is a clip. He did it in 1998. I was there. He did the design at his office in San Diego, and the prints at his home studio. FYI. Mongonikol (talk) 05:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Charles Darwin has a Posse too!

http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/cpurrin1/evolk12/posse/chazhasaposse.htm?ID=76

If I knew how to upload the image, I'd add it to the article. I see these stickers from time to time in Los Angeles and have even seen them in San Diego.LiPollis 10:40, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

See All your base are belong to us for an acceptable (short, sourced) trivia / pop culture section. Deiz talk 14:01, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Accent mark

Shouldn't this article just be "Andre the Giant..." not "André"? There's no accent on the stickers. --AW 15:51, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I should have changed this years ago. Theinfo 18:05, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok. I'll move it now. --AW 15:46, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Counter-Strike

Is it worth mentioning that computer game Counter-Strike has this image selectable as one of default sprayable images?

This image, parodies, and variants have made innumerable appearances in pop culture. It's not worth listing them.--65.78.107.132 (talk) 23:58, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

This page is awful!

I dont know what happened, but it looks like someone tried to clean up the page by deleting a lot of stuff. All this is left of the appearances in culture is one thing. Why have it at all?

This article has been and still is horrible. I can understand having this article as it is.

But what about

• all 500 of the different obey giant posters. Most of them having nothing to do with andre or the posse
• obey clothing which is not done by shepard any more
• obey as a company
• obey giant as a street art campaign

This auricle either needs to assume the role of all of these things, OR needs to step aside and let other articles be made, and stop redirecting all the information to this one all exclusive article.

Personally, I think we need a few articles:

• Andre the Giant Has a Posse (talk about the phenomenology and what it became)
• Obey / Obey Giant (what it is now)
• Obey Clothing (what it split off into)

I know I cant just start this on y own as someone will just come back and revert it, so can someone else start this?

Wikipedia is not a guide to popular culture. Information must be sourced, must be verifiable and must be important. I fear your dream ATGHAP and other OBEY articles will not fit WP criteria. As it is, this article is still in need of cleanup and verification. Sorry if this is disappointing. Deiz talk 23:22, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Yet we have an article for the nintendo virtual boy when they could all be lumped into nintendo hand held game systems. What I am saying is these things are NOT the same thing anymore. Shepard fairey doesn't even do the art for. If you want to talk standards, either lump other related info, or split this article. The sad thing that is happening here is that all the articles have their own cartel now and you cant do anything without some reverting your work.

And if you want sources. I have them. We have a book on this, I run a website that has direct contact with him. Numerous interviews, videos. I run an entire wiki based on obeygiant alone. Do you want legitimate information, or do you just want some random stuff here and there. Personally I vote for an entire reworking of this article. It is junk and does not explain anything to anyone who does not know what it is.

• Rest assured, I am entirely neutral in all this. Feel free to edit the article as you see fit. If you include references, rather than claim to have them, this will help, assuming they fit with WP:RS. If you want to merge articles together, there are tags you can place on the articles which will invite debates with the objective of reaching consensus on the matter. FYI, your comparison with Nintendo is not relevant - individual articles stand on their own merits, and are never compared in this respect to any other article, regardless of perceived similarities in content, importance or style. You have to verifiy that all of this is significant in the context of an encyclopedia - again, WP is not the great big guide to pop culture. Deiz talk 14:17, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

• I agree that WP should not be the guide to pulp culture, but that is a really hard argument to make when there is an article on every console video game made, along with an attempt to include every album released. I think we need to consider if this article needs a name change. OR, is the article going to be mainly about this sticker, and not about obey giant.
  • I think it should be Obey Giant, and talk about how it started as Andre... and what it is now. --72.195.138.162 01:03, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Lawsuit

"Threat of a lawsuit from Titan Sports, Inc. in 1993 spurred Fairey to stop using the trademarked name André the Giant..."

Is there a source for this alleged lawsuit? A cease & desist letter for example, or a recollection in an interview/article? I haven't been able to find anything about this – only recycled versions of the Wikipedia article. In Supply & Demand, Fairey's self-penned monologue, there isn't any mention of it; only that he was tiring of the posse sticker and wanted a more 'streamlined graphic approach' similar to that of the Constructivists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.18.55 (talk) 15:53, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately the cited article added by 209.30.19.80 refers to neither the year nor claimant of the lawsuit mentioned. A quote from the article cited, published in 2006: "Over the next 15 years, image and message simplified—in part because of a lawsuit from the deceased wrestler's family—into a blunt, black-and-white icon of a brutal face with the words "Obey Giant" emblazoned beneath."

The reference to a lawsuit from the wrestler's estate is mentioned in an interview for International Tattoo Magazine in 1999. [2] "I finally got a notification from his estate that I couldn't use the phrase "Andre the Giant" in any images or use his face in anything. [...] It took them nine years to figure it out."

I'm merely curious where the reference to the Titan Sports lawsuit has come from – it seems to have appeared out of thin air. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.18.55 (talk) 00:42, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

This happened, too. It was '93. I was at Berkeley putting up GIANT in the SF Bay Area, Shepard and Blais and Alfred were all still in Rhode Island, lots was still being done by hand, and all the superfluous AG imagery was done away with. Everything moved to OBEY/DISOBEY. The only thing that stayed was the Original Giant (OG) sticker. What I don't know about is Titan Sports. The letter was from whoever who owned the WWF. Mongonikol (talk) 05:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

1990s in San Diego w/Andre & Gary

Was pretty funny from 1994 til about 1998, 1999, or so, seeing Gary (http://www.garykarp.com) stickers, as much or more than Andre ones in San Diego, popping up everywhere.

In that period, Gary was photographed & left as stickers in many cities/states/countries, on all continents (yes, even Antarctica). Got to the point people thought Gary was out of the Andre camp. Big props to Andre and all that, but Gary was its own little big thing, that sprouted w/no prior knowledge of Andre.

Funny story: working at MTV Movie Awards, circa 1995. many A-list celebs, from Nirvana guys to Adam Sandler, to you name it, left with a Gary sticker subtly slapped on their back.

Anyway, good to see Andre's posse still going strong!

Cool that Gary still is hanging out, too, 14 years later (http://www.myspace.com/garykarp)

Illiteral (talk) 08:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)