Talk:Holborn

Boundaries

Fleet Street and the Inner and Middle temple are actually in the City of London. I think including them in Holborn is stretching its boundaries way too far, I'm not even convinced that it should be anywhere outside the old Metropolitan Borough of Holborn. Any thoughts, anyone? Morwen 23:23, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I agree. Holborn was a river, then a street, and then an area around the street which became a Borough. In none of its manifestations has it ever been customary to characterise the western City of London as Holborn, and that knocks out Fleet Street and the Inner and Middle Temples.Chelseaboy 16:48, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

To say "river Fleet, now subterranean but once flowing parallel to where Kingsway now stands" is not helpful. The river Fleet ran along what is now Farringdon Road, Farringdon Street and New Bridge Street, some distance from Kingsway.

I also agree, furthermore there are many other comments which are simply incorrect, for example the image for 'Old Holborn' Tobacco is not the Prudential but Staples Inn, opposite, which isn't even mentioned. 79.75.2.246 (talk) 21:52, 27 April 2008 (UTC) (Tony S)

"the first time anyone saw a gorilla"

I'm assuming that this is the first time that anyone in the UK had seen one; inhabitants of countries where the gorilla is a native species would surely beg to differ otherwise!--Alex Whittaker 22:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Possible WP:COPYVIO

Much of the "History" section seems to be the same as an article in Covent Garden Magazine, here

• Example from the magazine: The name Holborn is derived from a hamlet called Holebourne to the East which was established long before 1249, this name in turn is taken from the river Fleet, now subterraneous but it once flowed parallel to where Kingsway now stands. In the days when Holborn was a green oasis the Elizabethan herbalist John Gerard cultivated the land with much horticultural zeal. Here he was the first to catalogue over 1000 native species in a splendid prose tome which still exists to this day at the British Museum.
• Example, Wikipedia: The name Holborn is derived from a hamlet called Holebourne to the East which was established long before 1249, this name in turn taken from the river Fleet, now subterranean but once flowing under Farringdon Road/ Farringdon Street. In the days when Holborn was a sub-urban, the Elizabethan herbalist John Gerard cultivated the land with much horticultural zeal. Here he was the first to catalogue over 1000 native species which is housed at the British Library .

The WP entry was 2007-05-10. The magazine's Wayback Machine snapshot of 2007-04-19 includes the article, although the text is not preserved. --Old Moonraker (talk) 13:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Deleted. --Old Moonraker (talk) 15:23, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I have removed the references to the alleged course of the Fleet and the 'bourne' which are wildly erroneous. It is simply impossible for a stream to run uphill from Temple Bar to Holborn Viaduct. 79.75.42.175 (talk) 18:48, 10 September 2008 (UTC) Tony S

Good point. Changed to "below" Holborn Viaduct (and not forgetting that the land surface was built up there when the Metropolitan Railway was constructed) thereby allowing the deleted material, with its two references, to be reinstated. --Old Moonraker (talk) 21:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Afterthought: my pre-metrication Ordnance Map (1:25000 sheet TQ 28/38, published 1971) has Temple Bar on the 50-foot contour, whereas the 25-foot contour crosses Farringdon Road just a few feet south of the Viaduct. --Old Moonraker (talk) 21:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I have reinstated the correct course of the Fleet or Bourne as it is impossible for any river to flow up hill from Temple Bar. Furthermore there is no other evidence of any river running in that direction. Why don't you go and look at the Temple Bar and walk from there to Holborn Viaduct and see that it cannot be done. 79.72.17.57 (talk) 19:10, 1 November 2008 (UTC) Tony S