User talk:72.191.15.133: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 06:32, 17 December 2008

Welcome

Hello, 72.191.15.133, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} and your question on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

We hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on talk and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! -- Banjeboi 02:21, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rolando Gomez Sources

Thanks to those that showed support for helping undelete the Rolando Gomez article. Here is a link, that includes internal and external source links that will hopefully help those wanting to edit the article: [1] Of note, the "Robinson, Carol (March 31, 2006). "Hometown folks fret over Attalla teen’s centerfold", The Birmingham News, pp. 1. Retrieved on 15 December 2008." is the article that quotes Playboy Playmate Holley Dorrough in stating Rolando Gomez discovered her as a playmate. "Jaime, Kristian (January 13, 2008). "Going digital with Rolando Gomez". La Prensa 20 (25): 8B. Retrieved on 15 December 2008." is an article on Gomez's career and accomplishments as a photographer. On []Lexar]] Elite Photographers, Lexar chooses each year 30 photographers that they feel deserve that honor. This is a "non-compensated" honor, there is no requirement for the photographer to promote their products or company. The link to D-Pixx, it was not a cover photo only, it was a 9-page article on Gomez's photography and success plus a 4-page (13-pages total), separate article on his workshops in the Virgin Islands. Again, no compensation or promotion required. The "Rangefinder" (Sept. 06') was a cover story, not just a cover shot. The photo was not shot for Rangefinder, it was used by them to illustrate their featured photographer of the month plus the topic, "Lighting." The links to Photo District News were press releases on his 7-city, 3-country tour in Europe completed in Sept. 2007. The article "War Stories" [2] published in Studio Photography was written by the magazine editor at the time, Alice Miller [3], currently the vice president and board member of the International Photographic Council. On Gomez's selection, it was for the 55th Signal, Combat Camera annual workshop where the top 25 photographers, from all branches, spend a week with noted civilian photographers which that year included James Nachtwey, Mary Lou Foy, Bernie Boston and others. At the end of the week they choose the "Top Five." This is not to be confused with the "Military Photographer of the Year" (Bali ultimate cites in the talk page) competition were portfolios are submitted, via mail and judged (only), a total separate program. Several articles site Gomez's DOD Top Five accomplishment and are sourced including the one written by Miller. Finally, this press release, PhotoImaging & Design Expo 2005 Brings in the Top Guns "[4] lists Gomez in the 3rd paragraph with other Wiki notable photographers. Just FYI, thanks for your fairness. --72.191.15.133 (talk) 06:32, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 We hope you enjoy editing here and being a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedian]]! By the way, you can sign your name on talk and vote pages using four tildes, like this: &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126;. If you have any questions, see the [[Wikipedia:Help|help pages]], add a question to the [[Wikipedia:village pump|village pump]] or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! [[User_talk:Benjiboi| -- <u style="font-size:12px; font-family: cursive;color:#CC00CC">Banj<font color="#FF4400">e</font></u><u style="font-size:14px;font-family: Zapfino, sans-serif;color:deeppink">b<font color="#CC0000">oi</font></u>]] 02:21, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
-==Your recent edits==
+==Rolando Gomez Sources==
-Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to [[Wikipedia:Talk page|talk pages]] and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should [[Wikipedia:Signatures|sign your posts]] by typing four [[tilde]]s  ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment.  If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button [[Image:Signature_icon.png]] located above the edit window.  This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you!<!-- Template:Tilde --> --[[User:SineBot|SineBot]] ([[User talk:SineBot|talk]]) 06:33, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
+Thanks to those that showed support for  helping undelete the Rolando Gomez article. Here is a link, that includes internal and external source links that will hopefully help those wanting to edit the article: [http://rolandogomez.net/about/sources/]  Of note, the "Robinson, Carol (March 31, 2006). "Hometown folks fret over Attalla teen’s centerfold", The Birmingham News, pp. 1. Retrieved on 15 December 2008." is the article that quotes Playboy Playmate Holley Dorrough in stating Rolando Gomez discovered her as a playmate.  "Jaime, Kristian (January 13, 2008). "Going digital with Rolando Gomez". La Prensa 20 (25): 8B. Retrieved on 15 December 2008." is an article on Gomez's career and accomplishments as a photographer.  On []Lexar]] Elite Photographers, Lexar chooses each year 30 photographers that they feel deserve that honor.  This is a "non-compensated" honor, there is no requirement for the photographer to promote their products or company.  The link to D-Pixx, it was not a cover photo only, it was a 9-page article on Gomez's photography and success plus a 4-page (13-pages total), separate article on his workshops in the Virgin Islands. Again, no compensation or promotion required.  The "Rangefinder" (Sept. 06') was a cover story, not just a cover shot. The photo was not shot for Rangefinder, it was used by them to illustrate their featured photographer of the month plus the topic, "Lighting."  The links to Photo District News were press releases on his 7-city, 3-country tour in Europe completed in Sept. 2007.  The article "War Stories" [http://www.imaginginfo.com/print/Studio-Photography/War-Stories/3$1261] published in ''Studio Photography'' was written by the magazine editor at the time, Alice Miller [http://plumcomm.com/about/], currently the vice president and board member of the International Photographic Council.  On Gomez's selection, it was for the 55th Signal, Combat Camera annual workshop where the top 25 photographers, from all branches, ''spend a week'' with noted civilian photographers which that year included [[James Nachtwey]], [[Mary Lou Foy]], [[Bernie Boston]] and others.  At the end of the week they choose the "Top Five."  This is not to be confused with the "Military Photographer of the Year" (Bali ultimate cites in the talk page) competition were portfolios are submitted, via mail and judged (only), a total separate program.  Several articles site Gomez's DOD Top Five accomplishment and are sourced including the one written by Miller.  Finally, this press release, PhotoImaging & Design Expo 2005 Brings in the Top Guns "[http://www.cygnusb2b.com/PressRelease.cfm?PRID=196] lists Gomez in the 3rd paragraph with other Wiki notable photographers.  Just FYI, thanks for your fairness. --[[Special:Contributions/72.191.15.133|72.191.15.133]] ([[User talk:72.191.15.133#top|talk]]) 06:32, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
-From your edits, it appears to me that you have a vested interest concerning Mr. Gomez's article remaining on Wikipedia. Please know that this may violate [[WP:COI|Wikipedia's conflict of interest policies]].—[[User:Ryulong|<font color="blue">Ryūlóng</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryulong|<font color="gold">竜龙</font>]]) 08:59, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
-==[[Rolando Gomez]]==
-Hi, I appreciate your passion but you may wish to let the process play out without commenting repeatedly and verbosely. This isn't, perhaps, clearly spelled out but it generally isn't appreciated. Also there seems to be a systematic prejudice against anonymous accounts. It may be wise to register for an account - it's free - and if the article is deleted now it can always be built up in a user space and then relaunched when ready. [[User_talk:Benjiboi| -- <u style="font-size:12px; font-family: cursive;color:#CC00CC">Banj<font color="#FF4400">e</font></u><u style="font-size:14px;font-family: Zapfino, sans-serif;color:deeppink">b<font color="#CC0000">oi</font></u>]] 02:21, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
-:I'm starting to look in to this, but I'll first of all mention that being listed on the wikipedia page for the university as notable does mean next to nothing as it is on this wiki where anybody could have added it. [[User:Mathmo|Mathmo]] <sup>[[User talk:Mathmo|Talk]]</sup> 14:42, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
-::I've replied again on my talk page. [[User:Mathmo|Mathmo]] <sup>[[User talk:Mathmo|Talk]]</sup> 00:46, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
-I just came by to say pretty much the exact same thing Benjiboi has already posted.  I'll admit that I spend much of my time here removing spam and promotional material, and nothing sets off alarms like someone aggressively trying to influence an article about themselves or their product. I think there are enough people interested now that you can simply state your case succinctly and let the process move along by itself. I wish you the best of luck. [[User:Kuru|<font color = "#cd853f">'''Kuru'''</font>]] [[User talk:Kuru|<font color = "#f5deb3"><sup>''talk''</sup></font>]] 03:12, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
-==Deletion review for [[:Rolando Gomez]]==
-An editor has asked for a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review#Rolando Gomez|deletion review]] of [[:Rolando Gomez]]. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedy-deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. <!-- This originally was from the template {{subst:DRVNote|PAGE_NAME}} ~~~~ --> [[User:Cerejota|Cerejota]] ([[User talk:Cerejota|talk]]) 06:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
-==advice==
-very strong advice: do not participate further in the discussion at deletion review, if you want the article kept. Do nott ask for any more testimonials. It only goes to reinforce opinion that you are using us for publicity. I have some experience in knowing what to say in our deletion processes, and have done as much as can be usefully done. Don't ruin it. I came very close to declining to make a comment, upon seeing what you said about people here whom I and all of us respect. .'''[[User:DGG|DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG|talk]]) 01:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
-::Thanks, I will not, but after Ryūlóng's last statement, he should at least look here:  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cerejota#Deletion_Review_Gomez] From this point on, I will just monitor.  Thanks for all your support.
-== [[Rolando Gomez]] et al ==
-I understand that you may or may not be the subject of the above deleted article. However, if you are not the man but you are still affiliated with the man, that does not mean that you get free reign to continue to say that the page on your associate should be kept or not. It is up to Wikipedia policies and those who interpret them. That would be administrators such as myself, MZMcBride, MBisanz, Secret, Spartaz, MacGyverMagic, DGG, and many others. It is up to us to determine consensus and if there is no consensus, use our judgement to decide the proper course of action. I am frankly tired that you seem to be selectively quoting myself and other administrators involved in the deletion of the page of you/your associate Rolando Gomez. I did the right thing after my speedy deletion by undeleting the page and opening up the second AFD discussion. Neil, when he '''first''' closed the discussion [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Rolando_Gomez_(2nd_nomination)&diff=237260311&oldid=237260286 here] was not wrong, but yet you felt that you were slighted by the deletion and requested that the page be brought up at DRV, after which it was decided that the page would be relisted, after which MZMcBride closed the debate. This was effectively two AFD's that both ended in deletion. I would stop if I were you in focusing your activities on Wikipedia to have your/your associate's page retained on this website and instead focus your energies to less ephemeral pursuits. Having a biography on Wikipedia is not the ultimate thing anyone should be pursuing to get your/your associate's name out there. I'm sure if you/your associate spent more time getting publications, then there would be no issue with the man's notability in Wikipedia's eyes.—[[User:Ryulong|<font color="blue">Ryūlóng</font>]] ([[User talk:Ryulong|<font color="gold">竜龙</font>]]) 10:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
-:* While I understand you are an admin, all I asked was for fairness.  I have told Cerejota that I will not participate anymore on the discussion as he seems to be one of the few that is non-biased.  Since this is a talk page and you initiated talk with me, I'm responding with this.  The 2nd AfD took place because I asked you why you speedy deleted something that had passed a previous AfD over two years ago.  During that AfD, you deleted and blocked edits when links to credible sources were made--that is why I requested a deletion review.  That is  not only unfair, but underhanded.  You also stopped the ability to edit the article and add credible references during the 2nd AfD, not fair at all as the whole discussion was to improve the article.  The first deletion review never questioned the admin who closed it, we questioned the procedure of the 2nd AfD as votes were influenced by your actions and not to mention, you yourself took personal snipes at me and others, including Jerry Avenaim.  Now you say Avenaim has 12 sources that you accept, Gomez none.  I seriously want to learn, and you are an admin, so please walk me through this, tell me what is wrong with these sources.  Though, let's look at the first five below carefully as they are part of the 12 you accept for Avenaim so I can learn better here on how Wiki functions please tell me what is wrong here, point by point and then perhaps I'll believe you have unbiased intentions.
-::*1.   [[Lexar]], Gomez is an original Lexar Elite Photographer, just like Avenaim. In other words, they are both sponsored by Lexar as well as Wikipedia listed photographers [[Greg Gorman]], [[John Isaac]], [[James B. Dickman]], [[Vincent Laforet]], [[Joe McNally]] to name a few [http://www.lexar.com/dp/pro_photo/index.html]  and [http://www.lexar.com/dp/pro_photo/rgomez.html].
-::*2. There is an article on Avenaim as one of his sources written by International Photographic Council's (IPC) Board of Director, Alice Miller [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_/ai_n19480542], also editor of Studio Photography.  Same writer, same editor wrote an article on Gomez at least a year before, here is the article scanned, [http://www.rolandogomez.net/private/rolandoarmy.jpg] on this outside source, [http://www.imaginginfo.com/publication/article.jsp?pubId=3&id=1261&pageNum=3] and proof this entire 14-page article, which won an award, was written by Miller, not Gomez [http://www.imaginginfo.com/publication/article.jsp?pubId=3&id=1261&pageNum=1].
-::*3. Avenaim states in the second AfD that he and Gomez spoke together at the Photo Imaging Design Expo, which is one of the sources on his Wiki page.  They spoke together as Avenaim states in his own words.  Gomez also spoke the second year by himself and the show guide had a full-page article about him there [http://rolandogomez.net/private/pideshowguide.jpg] and another supporting link that he was a speaker here [http://www.tommycolbert.com/articles/photoimaginganddesignexpo2.html]  (See list of speakers at bottom, which include [[Greg Gorman]]. [[Vincent Laforet]], [[Joe McNally]] to name a few other [[Lexar]] Elite Photographers who spoke there.
-::*4. Jason Schneider is quoted as two of those sources for articles that appeared in Shutterbug and Photo District News.  Gomez's article in [[Leica]] World News was written by Jason Schneider, plus there is a link [http://rolandogomez.net/private/calumettour.jpg] on the sources page of Gomez' site that is from PDN (Photo District News) on his Calumet 3-country tour last year.
-::*5.  Photo District News (PDN) hosts the largest annual photography convention, over 24,000 photographers in Manhattan, Jacob Javits center, with 99 speakers.  Gomez was a speaker each year from 2004, 2005, 2006.  In 05' and 06' he spoke as one of nine Lighting Masters, the average speaker attracts 50 attendees, as you have to pay to see/hear each speaker.  Gomez ranked as the #2 speaker in attendance in 05' with almost 250 people attending, and #3 in 06' with 225 people attending.  There are 11 speakers three times a day speaking, FYI, plus the trade show floor.  Here are some links [http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/esearch/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003656374] and this podcast was from an interview by Zoom-in during the show, of Gomez, [http://www.zoom-in.com/media/podcasts/series/viewfinders/3_27_07_Gomez.mp3]. [[ASMP]] American Society of Media Photographers link on Gomez, [http://asmp.org/news/newslines_2007-01.php] see photographer list toward bottom also confirms the PDN Podcast and still another, [http://photodesign.zoom-in.com/blog/2006/11/photoplus_expopodcasts_on_the.php] prior to the PDN Photo Plus Expo event.  Samy's Camera, the #1 retailer in California and #2 in the nation, confirms Gomez as a Lighting Master (see bottom page, after interview) [http://www.samys.com/articles/rolando_gomez/rolando_gomez.php]  And this article, [http://www.imaginginfo.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=41&id=65&pageNum=2] confirms him as a PPE Lighting Master plus the Gary Bernstein video too.  And this link, in the "About the Author, corner right, shows he's a Lighting Master at PDN's PPE, [http://www.sunbounce-usa.com/content/pdf/studio1.pdf]
-::*6. Also, the Zugaphoto.tv DVD that is one of Avenaim's sources, Gomez is one of the 12 "stars" in that video, this was never mentioned before. [http://www.zuga.net/articles/printer_190.shtml] and comments from the director at the bottom, [http://www.photocritiq.com/groups/index.php?action=printpage;topic=20745.0]
-::*7. New York Times (St. Martin's Press, Harper Collins, Avon) Bestselling Author, Lisa Kleypas on Gomez, [http://www.squawkradio.com/index.php/sblog/lisa_ponders_photoshopping/]
-::*8. Here is the master list of references, [http://rolandogomez.net/about/sources/]
-::*9.  Here is the press release, external link, on "Top Guns" for the 2005 Photo Imaging Design Expo, notice Gomez is listed, [http://www.cygnusb2b.com/PressRelease.cfm?PRID=196]
-::*10.  As outlined in many of the above referenced links in the bio areas of Gomez, in 1994 he was selected as one of the Top Five military photographers in the world by the U.S. Dept. of Defense.
-With all due respect, please explain why the above would not be considered as credible sources.  I do want to disclose something, because of the Delta Airlines In-flight magazine article this month and posts on the Internet like these, [http://www.andrewlih.com/blog/2007/07/10/unwanted-new-articles-in-wikipedia/] through my media contacts, I am aware of how closely this article is being watched.  I have to agree with many, that Wiki has changed so much that it has become a political bureaucracy with editors and admins competing for status.  I do hope you are not that type.  All the best, I await your answers. --[[Special:Contributions/72.191.15.133|72.191.15.133]] ([[User talk:72.191.15.133#top|talk]]) 18:49, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
-== what to do: response to your message ==
-We always want new editors, so a few words:
-* Read what Banjeboi posted here, which is a standard welcome template. Read and understand the spirit, not just the words. It will also help you understand the process of escalation, and the need to remain call. It also will shed some light on why your postings have been met with suspicion by the community (it isn't just the anonymous part, it is also other things).
-* Take out a registered account. While we allow anonymous editing, and most of us begin to edit as anonymous, it is highly encouraged that if you are going to participate in the community - and specially raise controversial arguments and debates- and not only edit here and there, that you get an account. It is a sign of commitment to the project, and while not required, will go a long way to create trust in you on the part of the community. While you remain an anonymous account, the community will remain suspicious of your commitment, and hence understandably suspicious of your every move, in particular when spewing abusive stuff as you have.
-I must say that while I believe fellow editors and admins have made mistakes, they are very tiny to the kind of ill-willed behavior you have shown to them. You have been kind and soft spoken with those that agree with you, so it shows you can be this way. I encourage you to also be this way with those of us that disagree with you. Such is the spirit we try to promote around here - we are not always successful, but the last thing we need is even more [[WP:DRAMA]].
-BTW, I don't think I want to be an admin, currently are to be busy to be one, and my main contributions will continue to be as an editor. There is very little editors can't do that admins can that really helps in improving quality, and I know enough admins that if I think admin action is needed I can call upon them. Being an admin is not an honor, but a responsibility. Although there is some honor if you are drafted by respected editors... Thanks!--[[User:Cerejota|Cerejota]] ([[User talk:Cerejota|talk]]) 20:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
-:*  Thanks for your advice.  I think there needs to be more editors with fair thoughts like you.  Thanks. --[[Special:Contributions/72.191.15.133|72.191.15.133]] ([[User talk:72.191.15.133#top|talk]]) 22:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
-: *GIve me a link to a reliable, independent source and i'll look at it. Don't post on my talk page again if it's just to ask me to read some old "argument." I won't read it. All i care about is: Where are the reliable, independent sources to establish and verify notability, Rolando? So far, 0. Please, don't canvass me again Rolando unless you have a real source (please read bio, creative, book, COI, RS etc... first). If you post to my talk without a simple link to a proposed source, i'll just delete and ignore.[[User:Bali ultimate|Bali ultimate]] ([[User talk:Bali ultimate|talk]]) 22:04, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
-::*Bali ultimate, the links are a few paragraphs above in the answer to Ryūlóng above.  Obviously you choose to ignore them, that alone speaks volumes--oh, and they are all outside links.  II will not argue with you, as you have called me names, personally attacked and flamed me, that also speaks volumes of your character. I have not belittled you.  The facts are above and I remove myself from further conversation with you until you can demonstrate a civil attitude. I wish you no ill-will and actually I wish you well, it's that time of year that should be festive rather than blatant personal attacks. I'm not here to start trouble with you or anyone.  All the best.   --[[Special:Contributions/72.191.15.133|72.191.15.133]] ([[User talk:72.191.15.133#top|talk]]) 22:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
-:: [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Don't_be_a_whiny_bitch]]. You sought me out. And sometimes with the bull.... I don't read minds, I don't ignore. And I don't read thousands and thousands of irrelevant words by someone desperate to hang on to "their" wikipedia page. BUT if you provide me links to reliable sources i will give you an honest assesment and an explanation as to my reasons via policy. I'm pretty consistent in my opinion of these things. Summary of the key criteria: Must not be written by subject; must not be via someone the subject has a commercial relationship with; must not be advertising. The rest of your verbiage is defensive drivel. Belittle me or not. Attack my character or not. I. Don't. Care. Where are the reliable, independent, sources? Provide links. Please. Otherwise, stuff your allegations of bias and stop whining.[[User:Bali ultimate|Bali ultimate]] ([[User talk:Bali ultimate|talk]]) 23:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
-:::Since you kindly point out a nice page, I found one that suits your reading, [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_a_dick]  Second, I agree, Like you, I don't ignore, again, I didn't call you names, you did.  The reliable sources are listed above in the Ryūlóng answer, of which, he's an admin and stated Avenaim has 12 reliable sources, since then you have deleted them and destroyed his page--more motive of your character that you've turned this into a personal vendetta.  Shame, shame on you.  Please do not comment on my talk page anymore unless you read the answer to Ryūlóng as it has the reference links you are looking for. And to clarify, [[Lexar]] does not compensate anyone they call Lexar Elite Photographers and they renew that list every year.  Gomez continues, for almost six years now, to be on that list and pass Lexar's review annually.  Studio Photography doesn't pay or sponsor Gomez, and the article on him was written by one of the Board Director's from the International Photographic Council's (IPC), Director Alice Miller, also editor of Studio Photography at that time. The links given to Ryūlóng, above, which you choose to ignore, are independent and do not point to Gomez's website.  The same with the "Top Guns" link above.  There is no COI. Obviously you've chosen to ignore it, so please don't waste my time if you can't be civil and unbiased.  Perhaps it should be Bali biased instead of unlimited?  Happy Holidays! --[[Special:Contributions/72.191.15.133|72.191.15.133]] ([[User talk:72.191.15.133#top|talk]]) 00:15, 13 December 2008 (UTC)