Talk:Turkish alphabet

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See also: Wikipedia:Turkish characters (info on usage in Wikipedia).

Circumflex accent

I have an old edition of "Teach Yourself Turkish" published in 1953 which says on page 14, section 12, "the circumflex accent is written over a and u to indicate that a preceeding g, k or l is palatalized". It goes on to say that "some writers" also used it over long vowels in Arabic and Persian loanwords and gives the specific examples of circumflexes used to disambiguate the pairs hala (paternal aunt) vs. hâlâ (yet) vs. halâ (void). This accent is discussed further on page 15, section 18 and page 17, section 23.

I can't seem to find any information on this on the internet. Has this feature of Turkish writing become obsolete? Is this book just plain wrong? Can anybody shed some light? — Hippietrail 12:51, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I've uncovered an interesting discussion on Usenet which goes into this here: http://groups.google.com.au/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&frame=right&th=290ca9f886ce8a05&seekm=I0dm9.98164%24142.1281107%40news.chello.at#link1

— Hippietrail 13:14, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Your source is correct. The governing body of the Turkish language still insists that the circumflex accent should be used in these three situations:

1. To disambiguate words with same spelling but different pronunciacions and meanings. (over a and u)
2. To indicate that a preceding g, k or l is palatalized. (over a and u)
3. To disambiguate the suffixes "-i" and "-î"

But in practice they are rarely used. Zfr 19:44, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well, when I watch DVDs with Turkish subtitles the circumflexes are generally shown so I assume you mean 'rarely used by the general population', right? Or is it general for all Turkish speakers, including linguists? Mulder1982 23:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Most of the general population doesn't know how exactly to use circumflexes anyway. Even if they do, it's annoying to type them with a keyboard. That's why, TDK's suggestion (that they should be used in all cases of ambiguity) is almost entirely disregarded by general population. Tylose 15:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Atatürk Q harfini sevmezdi

If you can trace the original of the well-known anecdote about Atatürk & Falih Rıfkı Atay, I suggest you include it to make this article even more enjoyable. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 11:59, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

palatalized G, K and L; long a, u, and i

It should be mentioned that the letter G, K and L in Turkish can each have two sounds. Examples are the words 'kâğıt' and 'kalem', 'gâvur' and 'gazel', lâle and lala. The presence of a circumflex sign on the vowel following the G, K or L indicates whether the consonant is to be palatalized. Also, words of Arabic or Persian origin may have the vowels a, u and i lengthened if they carry a circumflex sign. When a noun is converted to an adjective by the addition of an i at the end, it is written with a circumflex to distinguish it from the accusative case: e.g., askerî (military) vs. askeri (the soldier). It would be good if the IPA symbols for these variants were shown in the table.

The Turkish Language Association (Türk Dil Kurumu) prescribes these rules in its spelling guide [1]. However, there is a tendency among many Turkish writers to view the use of the circumflex as optional, except for resolving ambiguous words (e.g., 'hala' (aunt) vs 'hâlâ' (still, yet)). This practice makes the language less phonetic, and sometimes a non-native speaker just has to know what the correct pronunciation is. --InfoCan 19:47, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Turkish letter 'a'

In the table it says that the Turkish letter 'a' corresponds with the IPA-sign 'a' which is an open front unrounded vowel but the English approximation features an open-mid back unrounded vowel as in fun or but. The exact vowel isn't used in the English language but comes very close to a near-open front unrounded vowel as in words like bat, cat, fat ...

English approximation of <ı>

There is no sound that sounds anything like /ɯ/ in English, so it is wrong to state that it sounds like nation, for 'nation' is pronounced /ˈneɪʃən/. The schwa is mid-central and somewhat rounded, while /ɯ/ is close-back and unrounded. For this, I have removed the claim from the article. Nay the snake 10:19, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

The 'o' sound

This article states that "o" is pronounced as in the word "no", which is clearly a diphtong in english unless you're from Jamaica. Other sources on the internet compare it with the "o" in the word "ornament" or "orchestra". This corresponds better with the turkish I've heard. Can someone with proper insight verify which example is the more fitting? JoaCHIP 13:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

"u" as in "nude"?

This seriously confused me. Apparently only in certain dialects of English, and I so far haven't found on wikipedia any information as to which dialects, where. I guess most "standard" dialects just don't have any similar sounds to compare with? Tanketz 02:46, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

English example for /ɾ/

The example word 'ladder' does contain /ɾ/ for many English speakers (see English_Language#Consonants), although it's not written with 'r'. Perhaps there should be a note about which English dialects are meant? Cibumamo (talk) 16:03, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Sivas or Kayseri?

The well-known photograph of Atatürk teaching the new alphabet was taken in Kayseri, according to http://www.tccb.gov.tr/common/gallery/ataturk/photo_00040.jpg. However, the photograph found on http://www.byegm.gov.tr/YAYINLARIMIZ/kitaplar/FMD/eng/01024.htm is clearly taken on the same occasion or in any case at the same spot, but stated to be in Sivas, about 160 km northeast of Kayseri. Both sources are Turkish government sites; they cannot be both right. Does anyone know of a way to decide between the two spots? See also commons:Image:LIllustrationCover13October1928.jpg.  --Lambiam 22:40, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

link for "Turkish alphabet and pronunciation guide" is broken

http://www.turkishclass.com/basic_alphabet.htm is getting 404 errors

Bahri Okuroglu (talk) 19:33, 25 September 2008 (UTC) bahrio

Phonology

I have a friend who speaks Turkish, and when he speaks "A" and "U" it sounds more like [a] and [u], not [ʌ] and [ʊ]. Are those latter pronunciations just the Istanbul dialect, or is there something that I'm not getting? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.223.57.216 (talk) 02:05, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Letter Ü

• There is "ü" in "music", "museum", "confuse" and "future"