Talk:Public sociology

Revised the slur into a critique, and put up some actual content. Sorry it's Berkeley-centric. It's just a start, needs your help.

---

I was working on NPOVing this when you beat me to the punch. The revisions are decent, I think, although it definitely still needs fleshing out. I would consider excising the link to Contexts magazine. I'm not familiar with the magazine, but it seems to be a "general perspectives journal" rather than one specific to public sociology. I also think it's relevant that the 2004 ASA conference had a "Public Sociologies" theme ([1]) since the creator of the article seemed to upset with attempts by Burawoy and others to "sway" the ASA. Some reference to this might reasonably be integrated. Shotput 06:11, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

---

Well, the editors of Contexts as far as I know identify with public sociology, and I think the journal represents one part of the pub soc current. Zerozombie 21:33, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

---

I am disappointed that there is so little recognition that public sociology, the best kind at least, is dedicated to Marxism and socialism, as Burawoy reminded us in his advocacy of sociological socialism.

---

Sigh. I know, I would love Sociology so much if it were not as a practice so heavily intertwined with such a repugnant political system. Kade 18:42, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

revisions

I have:

1. attempted to establish sections where knowledgeable people can elaborate both on what public sociology is/does and on criticisms of it; obviously these need much elaboration
2. rewritten most of the "'real' sociology isn't informed by politics" type statements or removed them to the criticisms section
3. I really don't think it's some kind of conspiracy or new development that many sociologists apply Marxist thinking to social problems
4. similarly, it doesn't look as if public sociology is "recent"; certainly, there is the notion of public engagement in the writing of Marx, Du Bois and as noted in the revisions, Mills and Bellah.

I also think that some kind of corroboration of the statement that the ASA is being torn asunder because of the public sociology debate would be useful. I left it in however because I have no idea what goes on at the ASAs. --Birdmessenger 18:19, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

editing Deflem's additions

Most typically, public sociologists are leftist, sociological radicals of a predominantly Marxist variety.

Please provide evidence for this assertion.

  "public sociology today emerges as a defensive outpost against the tyranny of the unconstrained market and the unlilateralist state -- both at home and abroad... We are sociologists who identify with the resilience of civil society... Working with the positive moment of civil society, sociology defends its own very existence, but at the same time defends the interests of humanity. Sociologists of the world unite for a renascent civil society – a vibrant, participatory, global counter-hegemony!"...

I do not believe that this adds to our understanding of the scope of public sociology.

But, also of course, the reactionary United States of America defends the idea of sociology as science. (source: Public Sociology Alive!).

This is unclear.

Critiquing certain actions taken under the banner of public sociology in the American Sociological Association, Deflem has also unmasked the political trickery that went into the Association passing political resolutions. "Based on a misguided call for sociologists to engage in a debate on ethical values," Deflem argues, "sociologists have more than ever before opened the door to be chastised for doing things they simply are not meant to do. When it comes to values, sociologists can claim no expertise, for in ethical debates all members of society can freely and equally participate... Among the participants of democracy there are no experts... But instead of searching for the truth in matters of society, public sociologists are engaged in an ethical discourse as a foundation for their work. Sociologists are now encouraged to inject their ethics in their work and to draw conclusions not on the basis of evidence and research, but on the basis of the rightness of certain ethical ideas. (Deflem, The War in Iraq and the Peace of San Francisco, Peace, War and Social Conflict newsletter, 2004).

I think a lot of this repeats what is said in the paragraph above. Perhaps someone could summarize it and make it a conclusion to the criticism section.

Also--aren't there other critics of public sociology out there? If so, wouldn't it strengthen the criticism section to include them alongside Deflem?

response to: editing Deflem's additions

[sorry, I initially did not see how to make additions to the discussion, and I started editing in the page -- I will make my comments below)

1)

about "Most typically, public sociologists are leftist, sociological radicals of a predominantly Marxist variety.

Response by Deflem: The leftist nature of public sociology refers to the Burawoy school of public sociology. Burawoy has written about this in at least two of his papers, the one appearing in from the Left and the one in Critical Sociology, where he refers to 'democratic socialism' and 'sociological marxism' as public sociology. True, not all public sociologists are necessarily marxist (also, not all marxists are not public sociologists), but clearly it is the Burawoy school that has led to the popularity of public sociology today. Incidentally, the term was orginally coined by Herbert Gans in a different meaning. I will put that in the entry.

2)

about "Sociologists of the world unite for a renascent civil society – a vibrant, participatory, global counter-hegemony!"... I do not believe that this adds to our understanding of the scope of public sociology.

Response by Deflem: This is a quote from Burawoy that clearly shows his marxism (the last line of the quote).

3)

Also--aren't there other critics of public sociology out there? If so, wouldn't it strengthen the criticism section to include them alongside Deflem?

Response by Deflem: Yes, there are quite a number of critics of public sociology, judging from the support I get. But few are as vocal as me, I suppose, and many agree with much or most of what I have written. Among the other critics, one might add James Moody, who has a relevant powerpoint online. I will add that to the entry if you wish.

The rest is OK. All in all, the entry is reasonably well balanced, not entirely what I wished for, but probably all I can expect.