Talk:Lightsaber combat

What are the sources for these styles of combat? It sounds like fan-generated bantha-poodu to me. Drhaggis 04:53, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've added the sources, sorry that they weren't there, but you may also want to see [1] --qrc 03:20, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

Spoiler Warning

Would it be possible to add a more detailed Spoiler Warning? The generic spoiler remark is useless given the fact that this article isn't linked to a particular movie or computer game, but rather a whole universe across a massive timeframe. The article then goes on to spoil Episode III amongst other things. I can imagine that other people like myself, might not be a happy bunny after reading some of the lines contained in the article.

Indeed, should these spoilers really be included in a discussion about lightsabre styles? Individual character deaths and battles might not always be appropriate, as characters will have different mastery of a given style and extenuating factors might come into play. General tactical weaknesses and advantages might be useful. The idea that style Y is worse than style X solely because A lost to B at C is a bit silly.

• I think it brings out each one's weakness and exposes it. It's also seemed to be big enough of a reason for Obi-wan to switch from Ataru to Soresu.

Vfd

On 28 Mar 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep and move to Lightsaber combat. See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Seven forms of lightsaber combat for a record of the discussion. —Korath (Talk) 01:59, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)

Maneuvers and marks of combat

A few of these I know to be completely official, as I read in Star Wars: Attack of the Clones The Visual Dictionary, but the sources supporting some of the others I don't completely trust. I've listed those maneuvers/marks anyway, but if someone could help me find additional, more official sources, to support anything other than jung, jung ma, sai, shun, and kai-kan, all of which are listed officially in the Visual Dictionary for Episode II, that'd be very helpful. --qrc 04:29, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)

Source

Where did this stuff about the forms of lightsaber combat originate? Was it first mentioned in one of the Star Wars Universe books, did it come from a Star Wars Video game, etc? I'd like to know and I think it'd be worth adding to the article if somebody wants to hunt down that info :) -Cookiemobsta

Double-bladed?

Is there a place for the double-bladed style of combat used by Exar Kun and Darth Maul?

• My opinion is that the double-bladed style of combat was a Sith variant of Jar-Kai...

Ataro

Matthew Stover uses the spelling with the 'o' instead of the 'u' in other sources in his novelization of Episode III, and this is more canon than the assorted reference books, so it is my opinion that this spelling should be used here. M412k 00:41, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

The possibility exists that he simply spelled it wrong and no one cared. "Ataru" seems to be the accepted spelling. —qrc 01:16, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

but even Labyrinth of Evil used the spelling Ataro also.

In Knights of the Old republic II : The Sith Lords, the spelling is Ataru.

Form II

Nick Gillard, the stunt coordinator for the Star Wars films, stated that Dooku's fencing style is based on Egyptian swordplay, hence, the scimitar-like handle. Currently the article says that the fighting technique has Spanish influences. 24.253.120.206 19:13, 3 June 2005 (UTC)

Source? From where did you get that information? —qrc 17:18, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

Kai-kan-Moved from article page

This article seems to be incomplete) I assume that this is in fact the action of stabbing backwards between the arm and torso. I moved this material here but forgot to sign. Rx StrangeLove 02:56, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

So Kai-kan is a reenactment of a famous battle? Can someone quote a source for this and explain it more?

British versus American spelling

It's obvious that British spellings of words and American spellings are duking it out on this article. I think the American spelling would be more appropriate. Examples are: 'manoeuvres' should be 'maneuvers'; 'favour' should be 'favor'; etc.

English is English, don't be hatin'!

Jar'Kai

This is apparently an ancient form of combat using two swords that is in X-Wing Alliance, and has been further referenced in The New Essential Guide to Characters in Darth Maul's entry as a form of combat he uses, and in a Wizards of the Coast Star Wars D20 online supplement. Here's the URL: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/sw20050526a

It is about the Dark Forces game, the entry in question about Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight. The character Boc uses two lightsabers in tandem to fight, and the entry states he uses Jar'Kai. So should this be added to this page? Naked Snake 20:33, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

In Medstar I: Battle Surgeons, Bariss Offee refers to another Jedi Knight to Jar'Kai in relation to a Jedi Knight and martial arts mater who used two sabers.

• If Jar-Kai is the art of dual sabers then what is the name of the art of a staff aka double-sided lightsaber? I think that perhaps Jar-Kai is the dual saber art and that the staff saber art is a variant. ~Grand Master Ravion

Darth Sidious

It apperas that Darth Sidious used Form IX: Shien in Revenge of the Sith. I can't confirm this but if you notice his fighting style when he battles Mace Windu that Palpatine has a unique fighting style compared to anyone else. Does anyone have any more info on his Light Saber fighting style? Supercoop 18:57, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

Actually, ,ost of not all of the animal-related nicks for the forms (way of the Rancor etc) came from the former Combat Master of our SW online club, the Dark Brotherhood, and are not in any way canon. The club is going to get rid ot it though, as they kinda suck in the eyes of most of the members.

• Darth Sidious's lightsaber combat form was, perhaps, Dun Moch, the Sith combat form. Just an idea, no source but my own logic. ~Grand Master Ravion

Did Sula Burq co-create Vaapad?

In 'Shatterpoint', by Matt Stover, Mace says that Sula used Vaapad, but Depa Bilaba was the only Jedi (besides Mace himself) to master it. I don't recall mention that Sula helped in the style's creation, though I have seen that referenced here and on some fansites.

it was Sora Bulq who co-created Vaapad with Mace Windu. Starwars.com databank has stated that.

Accuracy

"In the time near the Clone Wars, the Jedi Order seldom practices this technique. There is, if at all, so little lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat involved in a Jedi's life that Jedi Masters have found it impractical. However, Makashi was very common during the older years, before the advent of blasters, when melee weapons were abundant." - from the article

I've always thought the blaster was invented before the lightsaber. Your sources or references? Also, even if lightsabers came before the blasters, there were always bullets. So that statement above doesn't seem to make much sense. Of course, this is assuming that bullets actually got invented in the Star Wars universe. But it wouldnt' make sense to evolve from metal melee weapons, then to lightsabers, and finally to blasters.

Maybe it should be discussed in this article why storm troopers just don't bring back bullet-rifles; that way, Jedi cannot dodge or deflect beams of laser; they will be forced to outrun bullets (which is improbable). Maybe the combat style of Jedi are good enough to battle bullets as well? This odd scenario could be discussed. Or maybe it's better to not mention it at all.

• Bullets would be disintergrated in the lightsaber's blade, if you think logically about it. About the blasters "before" the lightsaber, Ben Kenobi stated that the lightsabers were remienscent of an older, more civilized age. ~Grand Master Ravion of the CJO

Also, I've noticed that the lightsaber styles shown in the films (kendo & iaido) are developed around the katana sword. Lightsabers are NOTHING like katanas; they have little to no weight in the blade section, the are not one-edged, and katanas require much force and power to cut a torsil in half. With a lightsaber, that requires little to no effort. So I guess my question is, which of the lightsaber styles best reflects the lightsaber, and not the katana or any other metal sword for that matter? One explanation for using the Japanese sword styles may be because jedis often fight against other peoples wielding lightsabers; so strikes require more strength in those cases.

Are these combat styles considered canonical (or at least, originating from the Expanded Universe)?

please read the very first part of the article: They are never mentioned directly in the released Star Wars films, but the details of the saber styles are explored in novelizations as well as expanded universe sources such as the novels, magazines, comic books, the Star Wars Role-playing Game and "Visual Dictionaries." As for the blaster VS saber problem, I will quote the passage from Star Wars Insider, Issue 62 (One of the very first source detailing the seven forms) : Today Form II is an archaism studied by almost no one in the Jedi Order, because it is not relevant to current tactical situations, in which Jedi enemies rarely fight with lightsabers. Even with the resurgence of the Sith, confrontation of an enemy with a lightsaber is an exceedingly rare prospect for a Jedi, so they continue to focus on more practical Forms. Sith expecting to battle lightsaber-wielding Jedi, however, find Form II a powerful technique. AND The third great lightsaber discipline was first developed in response to the advancement of blaster technology in the galaxy. As these weapons spread widely into the hands of evil-doers, Jedi had to develop unique means of defending themselves. Darth Kevinmhk 15:56, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Shien / Djem So

What about this form? Is Shien, is it Djem So? is it both? In the game KotOR 2 it is known as "Shien", that's all I know for sure. So where does the "Djem So" come from? Any official source?

• I believe that this form is more accurately known as Shien based both on KOTOR's naming and the ROTS novelization which states that Anakin uses Shien, Form V. I think that perhaps, Djem-So was developed as the name because at one time Sokan was misnamed Shien. Therefore, it would be another Niman and Niman confusion. Does that help clear it up? ~Grand Master Ravion

Anakin Skywalker's form

If I remember correctly it is said in the Visual Dictionnary of Episode II that Anakin Skywalker is learning (or has learned I'm not sure) form IV, why is it said here that he is a practitionner of form V?

• ROTS novelization says that Anakin practices Shien Form V...

copyright

According to User:JuJuJuJu, the material he is removing is directly copied from a book called "Power of the Jedi", published by Wizard of the Coast. I'm in no position to verify that assertion, so before reverting, please take this into consideration. --Spangineer^es (háblame) 16:58, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I assume he's referring to this book, but it's not showing up on google print. The text he is removing has not changed significantly over the past month (see [2]), so I we should take this at face value and do a rewrite of the material he has removed. -Spangineer^es (háblame) 17:16, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I'll do a rewrite, based on available content. If he removes again, I'll revert to my re-write. I hope he notices the talk page. AKismet 17:30, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I would like to remind you that trivially changing text still constitutes plagiarism. It must be a substantial rewrite and avoid using Product Identity. My congratulations on your arrogant attitude, by the by.