Talk:Shooting the messenger

The advice "Don't shoot the messenger" was first expressed by Sophocles as far back as 442 B.C. and much later by Shakespeare in Henry IV, part 2 (1598) and in Antony and Cleopatra (1606-07). Excuse me, but huh??? How can that be true if there were no BULLETS in 442 BC? 69.58.224.12 07:46, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

This probably points to the quote No one love the messenger who brings bad news. from Antigone. [1]. Pavel Vozenilek 23:57, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Shoot arrows?

Maybe there were no bullets BC, but there were arrows!

Source

An easily-provoked combatant receiving such an overture could more easily vent anger (or otherwise retaliate) on the deliverer of the unpopular message than on its author, thus literally killing the messenger.

We don't know if this ever happened, for the most part its a hypothetical situation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.8.93.38 (talk) 14:19, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

It seems to happen all the time in the chinese classic Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Although it's historical fiction, it seems to occur very frequently and without any hint of irony... though I suppose it could be seen as a way to show the quick to anger nature of the person receiving the news, I can't imagine it being completely baseless there. In the novels, envoys are either showered with gifts/etc or beheaded, depending on whether the news is favorable. 216.125.251.254 (talk) 21:43, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Whether or not this ever actually happened seems to me to be immaterial; it is enough that people thought it either had or could have happened to be the origin of this metaphor.Wschart (talk) 02:18, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

The origins of this phrase are discussed in Wisdom Well Said by Charles Francis (Levine Mesa Press: Prado, NM, 2009) pages 93-95 <url>http://books.google.com/books?id=ONKU9gqc8lIC&pg=PA94&dq=shakespeare+%22kill+the+messenger%22&lr=&as_brr=3&cd=4#v=onepage&q=shakespeare%20%22kill%20the%20messenger%22&f=false</url>

which includes a reference to Plutarch's Life of Lucullus, and stories (otherwise unconfirmed) about Alexander the Great, Peter the Great, and others. I also recall that Suetonius had mentioned that one of the crazier Caesars - perhaps Caligula or Nero - liked to prank a messenger by sending him on a long journey with the message (presumably written and sealed and unknown to the courier) to the addressee, "Do nothing, good or bad, to the courier" -- which at least hints at an option to doing something bad to messengers. 173.79.237.45 (talk) 17

52, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Kill the messenger

My understanding of this phrase is that it was attributed to one of the Persian kings, i.e. Xerxes, Darius, etc. I was told this in school many (sadly), many years ago. Perhaps I am wrong in this (or the teacher was wrong), but that was my understanding. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.223.61.80 (talk) 03:56, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, and I would very much like to see an actual historical reference including a citation from a primary source. I had heard a multitude of imagined origins, including ancient Greece, ancient Persia, and ancient China, but could not find an actual quotation from a historical source. In the 1960s art book, Kitch, there is a small repro of a painting (19th or 20th century) that shows a king in his throne room, in a very bad mood, surrounded by the dead bodies of a dozen or so soldiers or couriers, obviously getting bad news from the war zone with the messengers either killing themselves or being killed because they brought news of defeats. I keep trying to find that 40 year old book so I can identify the painting. 173.79.237.45 (talk) 16:58, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Hitler

I once heard Adolf Hitler literally shot a messenger. Anyone know if this is true? 24.64.165.129 (talk) 06:24, 17 January 2009 (UTC)