Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Steven Slater: Difference between revisions
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===[[Steven Slater]]=== |
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*'''Keep'''': This man is being viewed as a hero to the disgruntled working public. There is no reason to remove him from the records. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/134.129.126.127|134.129.126.127]] ([[User talk:134.129.126.127|talk]]) 16:41, 11 August 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:{{la|Steven Slater}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Steven Slater|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2010 August 10#{{anchorencode:Steven Slater}}|View log]]</noinclude>{{•}} {{plainlink|1=http://toolserver.org/~betacommand/cgi-bin/afdparser?afd={{urlencode:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Steven Slater}}|2=AfD statistics}}) |
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:({{Find sources|Steven Slater}}) |
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Though the article contains references, it is a classic case of [[WP:BLP1E]] and I therefore propose that it be deleted. [[User:Favonian|Favonian]] ([[User talk:Favonian|talk]]) 09:52, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete''' per Favonian. Definite case of [[WP:BLP1E]]. [[User:CarrotMan|CarrotMan]] ([[User talk:CarrotMan|talk]]) 10:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''' - as the gentleman is not yet notable enough for an encyclopedia. However, he may become notable. - [[User:Richardcavell|Richard Cavell]] ([[User talk:Richardcavell|talk]]) 10:19, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''' textbook [[WP:BLP1E]] [[User:GainLine|<font face="jokerman" color="navy">'''G'''<small><s>ain</s></small>'''Line '''</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/GainLine|<font color="black">♠</font>]] <sub> [[User talk:GainLine|<font color="red">♥</font>]]</sub> 10:23, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''' - Individuals who receive coverage for only one minor event are typically not sufficiently notable for their own article, per [[WP:BIO1E]]. -- '''''[[User:Lear's Fool|Lear's]] [[User Talk:Lear's Fool|Fool]]''''' 12:15, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete'''- as soon as possible, per [[WP:BLP1E]]. |
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* '''Delete''' - couldn't believe there was an article on this guy (linked from Google news) <FONT COLOR="#003366">[[User:Orioneight|orion]]</FONT><FONT COLOR="#999999">[[User:Orioneight|eight]]</FONT> <FONT SIZE="-2">([[User_talk:Orioneight|talk]])</FONT> 13:28, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete.''' immediate application of [[WP:BLP1E]] is called for. [[User:Patsw|patsw]] ([[User talk:Patsw|talk]]) 13:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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::I added the appropriate merge tags on [[Steven Slater]] and [[Flight attendant]]. [[User:Patsw|patsw]] ([[User talk:Patsw|talk]]) 13:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete''' per [[WP:BLP1E]] [[User:XinJeisan|XinJeisan]] ([[User talk:XinJeisan|talk]]) 14:08, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:''Comment'' I tried to speedy this, there seems to be fairly clear concensus to delete, can we get an early close? [[User:GainLine|<font face="jokerman" color="navy">'''G'''<small><s>ain</s></small>'''Line '''</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/GainLine|<font color="black">♠</font>]] <sub> [[User talk:GainLine|<font color="red">♥</font>]]</sub> 14:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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::'''Comment''' Hell no. What is the rush? AFD's should last the full period, to avoid drama at deletion review. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 20:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete.''' per nom. [[User:Dbrodbeck|Dbrodbeck]] ([[User talk:Dbrodbeck|talk]]) 14:27, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''', [[WP:NOTNEWS]] and [[WP:BLP1E]] could have been written with this article in mind. No notability whatsoever, the guy stormed out of work and happened to end up on the "And Finally..." segments. [[User:Dylanfromthenorth|Dylanfromthenorth]] ([[User talk:Dylanfromthenorth|talk]]) 14:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep'''': This keep vote does not conform with current policy, but neither did Mr. Slater's kick-ass actions. At least let the AfD run the seven days until the brouhaha dies down.--'''[[User:Milowent|Milowent]]''' • <small><sup style="position:relative">[[User talk:Milowent|talk]]<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">[[Wikipedia:Unreferenced BLP Rescue|blp-r]]</span></sup></small> 14:53, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*:This has to be my favourite AfD !vote ever. -- '''''[[User:Lear's Fool|Lear's]] [[User Talk:Lear's Fool|Fool]]''''' 15:36, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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::*Why, thank you :-) My vote may actually comply with policy now, because the news coverage of this guy is overwhelming, he has apparently touched a sensitive cord of the American psyche and its feeling about work. AP, New York Times, etc, etc.--'''[[User:Milowent|Milowent]]''' • <small><sup style="position:relative">[[User talk:Milowent|talk]]<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">[[Wikipedia:Unreferenced BLP Rescue|blp-r]]</span></sup></small> 12:31, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:::Or its just a silly season story in the 'and now for' segments at the end of news stories and just another internet joke (like that cop killer up north) that gets all the sados in a lather untill they move on to the latest dilletante fetish.[[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 12:38, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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::::Oh, you're just worried about being confused with the guy. Much of history is "silly,", e.g., [[Mary Toft]] in 1726, Slater in 2010.--'''[[User:Milowent|Milowent]]''' • <small><sup style="position:relative">[[User talk:Milowent|talk]]<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">[[Wikipedia:Unreferenced BLP Rescue|blp-r]]</span></sup></small> 14:14, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Snow delete''' per [[WP:BLP1E]]. [[User:Stifle|Stifle]] ([[User talk:Stifle|talk]]) 15:38, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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* '''More snow.''' - Shoulda been speedied... [[User:Carrite|Carrite]] ([[User talk:Carrite|talk]]) 16:28, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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**'''Comment''': I declined the speedy nomination, as the article did not fit the very narrow conditions of [[WP:CSD#A7]]. Apart from that, I'm also in favor of a snow delete. [[User:Favonian|Favonian]] ([[User talk:Favonian|talk]]) 16:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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* '''Delete''' Agreed only notable for being a tit once in his life. Come on OK its a great name (and the initials are funny if you have a really twisted sence of humour, part apart from that the blokes a nobody.[[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 16:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Snow delete''' [[WP:BLP1E|BLP1E]]. Sources only exist because it was funny. '''<span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:85%;">—[[User:Fetchcomms|<span style="color:black">fetch</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Fetchcomms|<span style="color:black">·</span>]][[User talk:Fetchcomms|<span style="color:black">comms</span>]]</span>''' 17:23, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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Make this article a stub, or expand it. Don't delete it! <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Moch770|Moch770]] ([[User talk:Moch770|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Moch770|contribs]]) 19:44, 10 August 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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* '''Delete''' or put a short note about him into "Events of 2010" or another article about ... I don't know, flight attendant controversies or something. Because a year from now we'll be going "Stephen who?" --[[User:Bluejay Young|Bluejay Young]] ([[User talk:Bluejay Young|talk]]) 20:06, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:::A year from now when you're going "what was that flight attendant story about the guy who escaped the plane....?", you'll be able to find it, especially if wikipedia covers it. With the internet, any odd and famous amusing event from the past -- such as [[Mahir Çağrı]], [[Tourist guy]], [[Bert is Evil]], [[Ate my balls]], [[Mark V Shaney]], is within easy reach. Why not give people the pleasure of being able to access the knowledge they want to access?--'''[[User:Milowent|Milowent]]''' • <small><sup style="position:relative">[[User talk:Milowent|talk]]<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">[[Wikipedia:Unreferenced BLP Rescue|blp-r]]</span></sup></small> 20:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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::::All of these are not single one off events, they are ongoing (or were) phenomina. Why is this even considerd worthy of a page? Does this mean that every twat who does something idiotic that gets news coverage (and here we see Mr Spigot nailing an albertros to his head) gets a page. Its worse then the Guiness book of people doing daft things to get a bit of attention.[[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 20:38, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:::::Who was that airplane pilot who landed in the river one time? [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 20:52, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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* '''KEEP''' A lot of individuals are famous for 1 event ( John Hinkley Jr, Sirhan Sirhan, Samatha Smith (wrote Andropov a letter), |
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and there are others, being known for 1 event does not disqualify this individual. Add to it that he was arrested and is now at Rikers Island. KEEP |
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[[User:KoshVorlon|<span style="font:95% Trebuchet MS;color:darkred">'''KoshVorlon'''</span>]]<span style="font-size:90%;position:relative;top:-0.4em;">''[[User talk:KoshVorlon|'''Naluboutes''',Aeria Gloris]]''</span> 20:12, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:True but the events they were part of were what made them notable, in a senece they are not notable its what they did (or tried to do) that makes them notable. All this bloke did was to lose he temper and storm of a plane his actions will not affext any one but those invloved.[[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 20:25, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:'''Keep''' for now. I would highly recommend a delete and merge, but this should be interesting to watch unfold. The way things are turning out, I am inclined to wait a couple of weeks for things to settle down. He's almost achieving cult status, which surprised me a great deal. --[[User:Hourick|Hourick]] ([[User talk:Hourick|talk]]) 20:46, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:And this will (if it turns ouot this is a flash in the pan) be used with the shout of notability is not temporary. Why not delete it and if it does have milage re-create the page?[[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 20:53, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' Lots of biographies in Wikipedia are about people famous for "one event." In this case, [http://abcnews.go.com/US/steven-slater-jetblue-flight-attendant-bail-emergency-slide/story?id=11367793 ABC News] calls his departure probably "one of the most dramatic ways to quit a job ever." Christian Science Monitor [http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0810/JetBlue-attendant-Why-judge-may-not-be-amused-by-Steve-Slater says] he is "fast becoming an Internet folk hero." Activities which are the extremes of human behavior may well be encyclopedic. He is not just one more person who quit his job. His response to abuse from a customer has received [http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=%22steven+slater%22 1416 instances of coverage worldwide]. If [[Chesley Sullenberger]] gets an article which survived AFD for one event lasting a few seconds of piloting of an airplane and some good luck landing an airplane it, why can't Slater have an article for one event on an airplane in which he was finally fed up and quit in a way which abused employees worldwide can appreciate? The court case is only beginning, and he [http://abcnews.go.com/US/steven-slater-jetblue-flight-attendant-bail-emergency-slide/story?id=11367793&page=2 says] his behavior is a response to out of control passengers. In a legal case, there is not one event but a series of events, lasting months.[[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 20:48, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:There is a world of differance between a man saving 100's of lives and some moron losing his temeper and throwing a wobbly (I show em a nick some beer). Most burglary trials last months, some get news coverage are they notable too?[[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 20:53, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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::What does that mean in plain English? wobbly, nick? Which burglary trials got 1416 instances of coverage around the world, because the papers and news channels saw something out of the ordinary? [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 20:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:::It is plain English and in common usage, throwing a wobbly To throw a tantrum. Reached the end of rational thought and action. So how much coverage would an single event that has legal repercusions need to qaulify as a notable event?[[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 21:02, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:The fact that on a case-by-case basis editors made the decision to include Sullenberger's article in Wikipedia does not void [[WP:BLP1E]]. Editors did not delete WP:BLP1E to make that happen. Practically, what this means is that ''editors can make the case here in the Afd'' there's a significance to Steven Slater, that again, on a case-by-case basis, editors can come to a consensus that a stand-alone biographical article on Steven Slater should appear in Wikipedia. ''Make the case for it'' because there's a lot of delete votes here citing a policy for doing so. [[User:Patsw|patsw]] ([[User talk:Patsw|talk]]) 21:30, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:: Also, Sullenberger is notable for his work outside of that one event. The fact that no article existed doesn't mean he didn't rate one. - [[User:Richfife|Richfife]] ([[User talk:Richfife|talk]]) 21:46, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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'''Delete''' per nom. Meets [[WP:BLP1E]]. ----[[User:Morenooso|moreno oso]] ([[User talk:Morenooso#top|talk]]) 21:08, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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* '''keep''' ...the drama will continue to unfold... he will be more famous... he is episodically emblematic of a completed scenario and will be added to the culture's legend [[User:Masterknighted|Masterknighted]] ([[User talk:Masterknighted|talk]]) 21:12, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''' Most of the keep votes are of the "More things are coming" variety, which violates [[WP:CRYSTAL]]. This is a clear one event situation. - [[User:Richfife|Richfife]] ([[User talk:Richfife|talk]]) 21:25, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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: Pity there's no WP:IICDIINN: "If I can do it, it's not notable". - [[User:Richfife|Richfife]] ([[User talk:Richfife|talk]]) 01:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''' Wrong. Note the Christian Science Monitor and ABC News above, which are not predictions by me that more coverage will be given, but statements from reliable sources of present notability. People magazine [http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20409276,00.html says] many people are "labeling JetBlue flight attendant Steven Slater a hero. " Not a prediction, a statement of the present state of notability. Time Magazine [http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/08/10/jetblues-steven-slater-taking-off-on-facebook/ says] "Slater's unique flip-out struck a nerve with frustrated flyers the world over." [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 21:32, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:Lots of people get called heros on the internet that does not establish lasting notability Time seems to be usurem this has any milage http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/08/10/the-5-best-things-about-flight-attendant-steven-slaters-freakout/. Is this all the internet (and wikiepdia)is for making heros out of tits. I can imagine the fisrt of the pages about some NIMBYs complaining about a new Tesco in Much whinning in the rut.[[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 21:51, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Snow delete'''. Case of WP:BLP1E. [[User:SYSS Mouse|SYSS Mouse]] ([[User talk:SYSS Mouse|talk]]) 21:37, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''' - per yonder votes. Not really notable for anything, just in the news as a fluff story at the moment. [[User:Cookiecaper|cooki]][[WP:EA|<font color="green">e</font>]][[User:Cookiecaper|caper]] ([[User talk:Cookiecaper|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Cookiecaper|contribs]]) 22:58, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep'''. Don't throw a wobbly now, I just wanna keep per Milowent. Yes, I went there. [[User:Cindamuse|Cindamuse]] ([[User talk:Cindamuse|talk]]) 23:37, 10 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep, but move to an article about the event itself'''. If it's notable enough for ''[[ABC World News]]'', ''[[CBS Evening News]]'', ''[[NBC Nightly News]]'', and almost every major newspaper in the U.S., it ought to be notable enough for Wikipedia. (Yeah, I know this is Wikipedia and not WikiNews; my point on notability still stands.) –[[User:BMRR|BMRR]] ([[User talk:BMRR|talk]]) 00:20, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Strong Delete''' per [[WP:BLP1E]] and [[WP:SNOW]]. I was tempted to close this discussion myself, but I'm short on time. If he becomes genuinely notable in the future, we can recreate or restore the article. Until then, it needs to go. --[[User:jonny-mt|<span style="color:#297AA3">'''jonny'''</span>]]-[[Special:Contributions/jonny-mt|<span style="color:#A3293D">'''m'''</span>]][[User talk:jonny-mt|<span style="color:#3DA329">'''t'''</span>]] 01:23, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' This is just going to snowball. The guy will get stints on talk shows and a book deal...everyone should know the drill by now. If, in defiance of the natural order of things, it fades to obscurity relatively quickly, we can always delete or merge it in 2 months. To be honest, I don't know why people are so eager to delete these sorts of things within 24 hours of them happening. Let the story play out and see how the article evolves for a couple weeks...<br />--[[User:K10wnsta|K10wnsta]] ([[User talk:K10wnsta|talk]]) 02:01, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Question:''' What's a snow delete? [[User:Argel1200|Argel1200]] ([[User talk:Argel1200|talk]]) 02:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*:A snow delete involkes the [[WP:SNOW]] essay, essentially stating that, while AfDs normally run seven days, the result is so certain that the discussion should be closed early as a full discusssion is not warranted. It's not a policy, but is intended to be a guide to the application of [[WP:Ignore all rules]] and [[WP:BURO|WP:Wikipedia is not a Bureaucracy]]. -- '''''[[User:Lear's Fool|Lear's]] [[User Talk:Lear's Fool|Fool]]''''' 02:28, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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* '''Strong Keep''' This is definetely not a case of [[WP:BLP1E]], apparently most of you didn't read the [[WP:BLP1E]]. The reliable sources are '''persistent'''. Right now, more people around the world know of this guy and this story then will ever know who John Hinckley is. And, according to [[WP:BLP1E]], John Hinckley is the prototype of notability for a single event. There are more notes about this guy than about 99 percent of Wikipedia subjects. Right now, a google search for Steven Slater gives 1.4 million results. All of those results could be characterized as "Notes". If something has 1.4 million notes, then it is notable. Any other interpretation is a psychotic break from reality that, unfortunatley, has taken over the mind set of some Wikipedians. I just did a random article, from the home page of Wikipedia, and came up with "Chemlab", a band. Googling it reveals 90,000 results. How is that more notable than the millions for Steven Slater? There is no way that the notability of this story is going away. '''Keep'''.--[[User:Marcwiki9|Marcwiki9]] ([[User talk:Marcwiki9|talk]]) 02:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' [[User:Mbstone|Mbstone]] ([[User talk:Mbstone|talk]]) 03:12, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*I disagree with those who say delete. This man is worthy enough to have an article...it is an ongoing story...come on, there are plenty of pages on here about people who killed one person, or robbed one bank or got nude in public once; for this man, he freaked out and got the media's attention. Of course the article needs sprucing up; but please consider keeping this page. It will gradually blossom. [[User:Tinton5|Tinton5]] ([[User talk:Tinton5|talk]]) 03:19, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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: It needs to blossom first, then he can have an article. I'm surprised this hasn't been cited yet, but [[Wikipedia:Other_stuff_exists|Other Stuff Exists]] is a pretty important precedent here. - [[User:Richfife|Richfife]] ([[User talk:Richfife|talk]]) 03:29, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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* '''Keep''' Not a case of [[WP:BLP1E]] this was a notable event in western culture. It was a safe and sane dramatic event. The first since 9/11 - and as such should be applauded and remembered. This is a historical event of note by virtual of the safety within a space deemed to be the most dangerous. [[User:Pakse|Pakse]] 10:18, 10 August 2010 (UTC) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/98.212.141.193|98.212.141.193]] ([[User talk:98.212.141.193|talk]]) </span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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: Ummm... A little early to be calling it "historical" and "seminal" (from the edit comment) isn't it? - [[User:Richfife|Richfife]] ([[User talk:Richfife|talk]]) 03:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Changed to MOVE - see below''' Once off yes, but wasn't the Cuban Missile Crisis a once off event? Didn't [[Jack Ruby]] get famous for a once off event? I believe this one should stay because of it's iconic status. It's certainly exceptionally notable, just look at Google News stats. It's probable that his actions really show an industry wide problem. No one has claimed that this was a stunt for self-promotion. The guy flipped, did so in a manner that caused instant global fame, and is regarded as a hero by many. His actions though crazed highlight a developing situation of passengers and staff being pushed too far by security and airline policies. This incident is quite likely to be looked back on as "Where it Started". I would say we should instead agree to revisit the AfD in 6-12 months. This incident's impact reflects on so much more than a once off meltdown by a disgruntled employee. Sorry, I have no login as I choose to edit directly. [[Special:Contributions/24.23.198.90|24.23.198.90]] ([[User talk:24.23.198.90|talk]]) 04:29, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:*'''Comment''' - You really think he's going to start a social movement? His actions are not 'so much more' than what they are. - [[User:Richardcavell|Richard Cavell]] ([[User talk:Richardcavell|talk]]) 07:07, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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: What's with all the weird messianic vibes that keep showing up? How is this different from, say, this scenario: A security guard on the fifth floor of a department store is hassled by a customer, rags them out on the store wide intercom, grabs a hat a he likes and takes off down the fire escape. Cops find him screwing his wife. - [[User:Richfife|Richfife]] ([[User talk:Richfife|talk]]) 07:20, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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::There's an airplane fetish, that's what. Two people killed in a car? Boring! Two people killed in a plane? News! [[User:Morenoodles|Morenoodles]] ([[User talk:Morenoodles|talk]]) 10:08, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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::: There's a much bigger picture here. The entire industry is struggling with some impossible balances. Security "concerns" vs Passenger convenience, Profitability concerns vs staff morale, Space vs size of people, The innocent cabin crew have become the Airline company point contact for the well documented increasingly angry travelling public. The insistence of the Securocrats on control vs the realities of human nature and needs. Luggage fees vs Carry On behaviours. What this is is an unmanagable, unbalancable set of competing needs. Steven Slater's actions have shown a major policy and system debacle in a human and personal way. It was highly notable and globally published, and it reflects a much larger issue of an entire system breaking down. Notable, encylopedic, historical - and most of all - people want to read it - newspapers don't publish things people don't want to read - of course it belongs in an encylopedia - some people want to read about this guy in more depth than just a oneliner in the [[JetBlue]] article. [[Special:Contributions/24.23.198.90|24.23.198.90]] ([[User talk:24.23.198.90|talk]]) 10:26, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:::: These are all very good and valid points but wikipedia is not the place for them as per [[WP:NOTBATTLEGROUND]]. [[User:GainLine|<font face="jokerman" color="navy">'''G'''<small><s>ain</s></small>'''Line '''</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/GainLine|<font color="black">♠</font>]] <sub> [[User talk:GainLine|<font color="red">♥</font>]]</sub> 11:38, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Delete''' - classic case of [[WP:BLP1E]]. Quoting the policy: "If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of '''a single event''', and if that person otherwise remains, or is likely to remain, a low-profile individual, we should generally avoid having an article on them." If this guy become really famous down the road which I doubt, then the article can always be recreated.—<font face="Cambria" size="3">[[User:Chrishomingtang|<font color="black">Chris!</font>]]<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Chrishomingtang|<font color="black">c</font>]]/[[User talk:Chrishomingtang|<font color="black">t</font>]]</sub></font> 05:01, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' - Even if Slater falls back into obscurity, he would have something in common with John Hinckley, Jr (see [[WP:BLP1E]]) who did not get up to very much after his assassination attempt, except going to jail. The event in this case does have significance as the first time that a flight attendant has made their own emergency exit, a hero in popular culture and the most outrageous way to quit a job. The event also highlights the rudeness of passengers these days. We can't predict where this event will end as it is still unfolding. I say let the article evolve with the incident and review later. [[User:Freelion|Freelion]] ([[User talk:Freelion|talk]]) 06:14, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep'''' - Let's wait for a week to see what happens, then put back deletion on the table. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/121.54.28.251|121.54.28.251]] ([[User talk:121.54.28.251|talk]]) 07:59, 11 August 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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: Policy goes the other way: If he's not notable, delete the article and recreate when he is. - [[User:Richfife|Richfife]] ([[User talk:Richfife|talk]]) 08:16, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:: No one is questioning notability with thousands of newspaper reports on him. [[Special:Contributions/24.23.198.90|24.23.198.90]] ([[User talk:24.23.198.90|talk]]) 10:18, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''' People want to read about this fellow, and Wikipedia is one obvious place. When there's a juicy murder (or celebrity suicide) there are copycats; perhaps now dozens, hundreds of people will be shouting "Take this job and shove it!" Perhaps we should wait a week and see whether wage-slave capitalism collapses. [[User:Morenoodles|Morenoodles]] ([[User talk:Morenoodles|talk]]) 10:08, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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::Are people really comparing this to an attempt to assassinate a president, or to a nuclear war almost starting? I was so certain that this was [[WP:BLP1E]] that I almost blanked the article as a courtesy as soon as I saw it, expecting it to be deleted within a few hours. I don't know why this doesn't seem so obviously cut and dry...am I really missing something?[[User:Qwyrxian|Qwyrxian]] ([[User talk:Qwyrxian|talk]]) 10:22, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:::Yes. This is August, or what in Britain is called the "silly season". The floods in Pakistan (just to take one example) are several million times more important, but people don't want to read about that kind of stuff. In contrast to hundreds of thousands of actual endangered humans, Slater (population: one) is a "human interest story"; and if he's not "the common man" then at least he seems closer to that elusive ideal than do any number of cringe-inducing faux-folksy politicians. [[User:Morenoodles|Morenoodles]] ([[User talk:Morenoodles|talk]]) 10:34, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''' - Possible compromise solution - So many people are calling for deletion per [[WP:BLP1E]], maybe we need to follow [[WP:BLP1E]]....... I see no event article, maybe that is a suitable compromise? Create an event article as that very much deserves an article, and would probably be better to have than an article primarily about the event than one that is lodged under someones name. Whatever happens this incident should somehow find it's way to a wiki article. [[Special:Contributions/24.23.198.90|24.23.198.90]] ([[User talk:24.23.198.90|talk]]) 10:33, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Move''' to an article on the event, and keep. (Thanks to the IP immediately above.) [[User:Morenoodles|Morenoodles]] ([[User talk:Morenoodles|talk]]) 10:36, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:: Welcome. I'm trying to learn wiki. We all talk about WP:BLP1E, and it opens with some great guidance "The general rule in many cases is to cover the event, not the person". Everyone, including me, who is expressing outrage at the prospects of banishment of article wants the issue in wiki, i don't think anyone has yelled that they want it covered in [[Steven Slater]] specifically. If he does become mr working class folk hero, we can revisit. Move [[Special:Contributions/24.23.198.90|24.23.198.90]] ([[User talk:24.23.198.90|talk]]) 10:44, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:::If we move it it should not be to a page about this incident but to a page about Stewerds wiging out. Lets put it into a wider context.[[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 12:23, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Strong Keep''' - If [[Fuck for Forest]] has a place on wikipedia so does an article on this dude - lighten up guys! [[User:Kotare|Kotare]] ([[User talk:Kotare|talk]]) 11:09, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''' several actually: |
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#I do not think we are yet at the threshold of [[Balloon boy hoax]] in terms of having a deeper story. An anon editor started a factual summary at [[Flight attendant]] to which I added the information on the arraignment. |
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#Some of the keep votes are merely [[WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS]] and do not engage any points we have raised re [[WP:BLP1E]]. They are [[WP:ATA|arguments to avoid]]. |
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#A large volume of media coverage in itself is not sufficient. |
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#If we move this article to [[Overhead bin controversy]] or [[Notable nonlethal incidents on aircraft]] and the story just ends with Slater taking a plea deal for the misdemeanor charges, it still is just about one individual which lasted for 2 news cycles. [[User:Patsw|patsw]] ([[User talk:Patsw|talk]]) 12:41, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Strong Keep''' - Considering that after less than 2 days, the fan page[http://www.facebook.com/pages/Steven-Slater/145469768806134] on [[Facebook]] for this individual has over 100,000 followers, I think that itself should show notability of this individual, possibly developing the triggering event. [[User:N Yo FACE|Anakin-Marc "DJ AniZ" Zaeger]] ([[User talk:N Yo FACE|talk]]) 13:07, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:'''Comment.''' Given the level of effort required for one to "Like" (not follow) Steven Slater, this claim is nonsense. Notability in the context of an Afd is term of art. Does the article meet the criteria for [[WP:N]]? Facebook is coverage but it's ''trivial'' coverage. [[User:Patsw|patsw]] ([[User talk:Patsw|talk]]) 13:58, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' A classic case of BLP1E distortion. The point of that guideline is that we should not have biographies as spinoff articles from notable events if the people in question were ancillary to the event. But this case we have one person, one event, one article. The topic is highly notable, being covered globally in major news media and so merits coverage in some fashion. The name of the article and its scope is not a matter for AFD as it can be addressed by ordinary editing in accordance with our [[WP:PRESERVE|editng policy]]. [[User:Colonel Warden|Colonel Warden]] ([[User talk:Colonel Warden|talk]]) 14:03, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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:thats not how I read it, BLP1E says that we should not have articels about people who are notable fro one event, and nothing else. Not tnat we should not have articels about people whoes only notability is being involved in an event.[[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 14:17, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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::Come on Mr. Slater, you keep commenting here but fail to disclose your COI. How were you editing from jail yesterday anyhow?--'''[[User:Milowent|Milowent]]''' • <small><sup style="position:relative">[[User talk:Milowent|talk]]<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-3.2ex;*left:-5.5ex;">[[Wikipedia:Unreferenced BLP Rescue|blp-r]]</span></sup></small> 14:20, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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::Blast and dam found out. OK I admit it I am in fact called Steven Slater.[[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 14:30, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' I know anons have no suffrage here, but I don't care. Once the topic makes it to the front of Google news, and the Wikipedia article is in the short list of links, it passes as notable and gets to stay. I mean, there is an article about [[Elderly Instruments|some random midwest music store that no one has ever heard of]], surely this deserves to stay. --[[Special:Contributions/65.10.51.35|65.10.51.35]] ([[User talk:65.10.51.35|talk]]) 14:21, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment'''[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/10/AR2010081005859.html?hpid=topnews The Washington Post] has another article about Slaters action, in which they say Slater has "has become a folk hero to his fellow stewards of the sky. Also, to everyone." The article said "Hit that slide. Soon the phrase will become this generation's 'blow this popsicle stand'" and the article notes the appearance of that definition in Urban Dictionary. (Washington Posts's prediction and noting of a neologism, not mine). New York Magazine [http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/08/steven_slater_the_ballads.html noted] new ballads about Slater's escape by Jimmy Fallon ("When you're mad as hell and can't take it anymore, ya gotta get 2 beers and jump") and others. Slater expressed the feelings of millions who deal with rude, childish demanding customers and who dream of chucking the job in one great splash. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 14:24, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep''' He's getting a LOT of media coverage at the moment. Perhaps he is notable for only one event—but I would say it is probably one of the most notable single events of recent months. —'''[[User:wackywace|<font color="#00A693">WackyWace</font>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:wackywace|<font color="black">converse</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Wackywace|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 14:54, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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*'''Keep but rewrite and move''' to [[JetBlue Airways Flight 1052]], an article we do not presently have. The ''event'' is notable and we routinely cover unusual, non-fatal airliner incidents; for precedents, see: [[Eastwind Airlines Flight 517]], [[Continental Airlines Flight 1883]], [[2005 Logan Airport runway incursion]], [[JetBlue Airways Flight 292]], [[Northwest Airlines Flight 327]], [[CityFlyer Express Flight 8106]], [[America West Flight 556]], [[Korean Air Lines Flight 85]], [[2007 San Francisco International Airport runway incursion]]. A particularly relevant precedent is [[Northwest Airlines Flight 188]], the flight where the pilots overflew their destination by hundreds of kilometers; we have an article on the incident, not the pilots. --<font face="Futura">[[User:A. B.|A. B.]] <sup>([[User talk:A. B.|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/A. B.|contribs]])</sup> </font> 15:25, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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* |
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*<small class="delsort-notice">'''Note''': This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Transportation|list of Transportation-related deletion discussions]]. <!--Template:Deletion sorting--></small><small>—<font face="Futura">[[User:A. B.|A. B.]] <sup>([[User talk:A. B.|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/A. B.|contribs]])</sup> </font> 15:32, 11 August 2010 (UTC)</small> |
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*<small class="delsort-notice">'''Note''': I have also left notes about this AfD at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation/Aviation accident task force]] and [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Airlines]]. --<font face="Futura">[[User:A. B.|A. B.]] <sup>([[User talk:A. B.|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/A. B.|contribs]])</sup> </font> 15:49, 11 August 2010 (UTC)</small> |
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'''Keep but rewrite and move''' - The incident is clearly notable. The article should be rewritten so that it's not a BLP about Steven Slater, but about the incident. [[User:A Quest For Knowledge|A Quest For Knowledge]] ([[User talk:A Quest For Knowledge|talk]]) 15:48, 11 August 2010 (UTC) |
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