User:VanishedUser sdu9aya9fs787232

Dear internet,

You guys win. I will stop nominating pages for deletion.

I wasn't doing this to troll or to slam any language community. I was just trying to help -- I read the WP guidelines for inclusion, and whenever I came across a language that didn't seem to meet said criteria, I nominated it for AfD. I think, with respect to Wikipedia's established notability guidelines, my arguments for deletion were airtight, which is probably why the articles were eventually deleted. I'm not sure my actions warranted the kind of internet-hatred I received as a result. If anyone thought what I was doing was wrong, they could have just sent me a friendly message and I would have politely discussed the issue. Few took this route, and I am sorry that due to time constraints and an overwhelming amount of invective I could not reply sensibly to everyone.

Since the internet seems to care more about keeping these articles than I care about deleting them, I'll stop. I personally think a lot of the articles should have been deleted. I think that ALL articles I nominated for deletion fail to meet Wikipedia's general notability guideline. Here's a challenge, then, for the internet: instead of spamming my Wikipedia talk page (which I don't really care about), why don't you work on fixing WP's notability guideline for programming languages? Otherwise, some other naive editor will eventually try to delete them. Perhaps they won't have as much experience dealing with trolls and flamebait as I have had, and will become very hurt and confused. Nobody wants that :(

This was fun. Now back to real work, I guess...

Mr. Monsanto,

I would send this as a private message, but I'm actually not sure how. (Also, you do not seem to have an e-mail listed on your Hacker News profile.)

I think it's important to note that, with respect to WP:N, your arguments for deletion were airtight, and remain airtight. For what it's worth, I apologize on behalf of the programmer and internet denizen community, of which I am a part, that ostracized you so thoughtlessly. I believe it came down to a problem of communication: What you said was, "According to WP:N, these ought to be deleted; the information contained within is useful, but it does not meet our conventional standards," and what they heard was, "According to any reasonable measure, these ought to be deleted; the information contained within is worthless." (I believe this is called "Seeing the world through rage-colored glasses." ... What, that's not a thing?)

Nominating the articles for deletion was not an error. If you erred in your "social responsibility"; I believe it would be with the same mistake that your detractors made: Failing to look past what people were saying, and responding to what they actually meant. I think that, in our heart of hearts, no one really believes that obscure programming languages are notable according to WP:N as it exists today. What we really mean to express is that they are notable according to programmers, and we want Wikipedia to consider that enough.

To that extent, I am glad that you are espousing a bigger picture, and are urging people to modify WP:N. I hope others--"deletionists" and "inclusionists" alike--will take a step back and understand the real scope of the debate. Faithfully following the rules is a perfectly valid choice, but in some situations--like this one--you can still end up on the wrong side of history.  :-)

Thank you for taking the time to express your opinion clearly and politely despite all the trolls and flamers. You have admirable patience. Max (talk) 19:30, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for helping to resolve the situation. Regarding your comment, "why don't you work on fixing WP's notability guideline for programming languages?" I would like to invite you to channel your (otherwise-deletionist) energies toward this end, since you are likely best positioned to resolve it. We are mostly Wikipedia-ignorant Redditors and programmers, but you would be the perfect person to help this idea along to fruition. Thanks in advance for helping to undo the furtherance of the militant deletionist Wikipedia agenda that the rest of the Internet feels powerless to stop. We have faith in you! Strom (talk) 02:10, 15 February 2011 (UTC)