Talk:Primerica

A Dubious History Primerica has a dubious history and in the interests of equitable coverage should be included in any article on it. As part of that heritage, it should be noted in this article that Primerica was prohibited from practicing in the State of New York for a period of time. Additionally, they may have been prohibited from practicing in other U.S. states as well. Stevenmitchell 23:05, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I would like to state that, being a former agent myself, I don't believe for one second that the $199 fee goes to "government courses". Why? First of all, if it is a state-sponsored (or provincially-sponsored) program it wouldn't be "$199" everywhere- it would vary. Second of all, if it's a government program, then you should be able to get your license following the completion of the program. The fact that you don't indicates that it most likely isn't government-sponsored.

I would also like to state that the previous revision's assertation that the opinions of former agents can be "dismissed" to be rather disgusting. We are not merely a class of fifty or so people- thousands of failed recruits come every year, as the company loses between 90-98% of its workforce annually. In a subjective article, these complaints- which are substantial- should not be brushed aside but rather brought to the light, since neutrality demands that nothing hides its bad side. I am not saying that Primerica cannot provide a legitimate business- some people have managed to succeed, and I congratulate them. However, for a Wikipedia article to denounce the accusations of many as unimportant stands in the way of everything that Wikipedia is about, since neutrality isn't about hiding anything.-RomeW

No, the way it's phrased now is not very good. But if I understand it, the $199 goes to cover Primerica's costs in providing a state-mandated licensing course, whatever that state's requirements are -- the teachers, the books, the tapes, etc.

And no, it will take some time to reach an NPOV presentation on this, since so many people feel strongly about it. Primerica's definitely not for everyone; there is a high attrition rate, and it's a lot more work than most people expect to make a decent living at it -- definitely not a get-rich-quick scheme. The trick is in presenting the company's weaknesses without demonizing it all as "a big scam". I've had family members involved in the company for almost ten years, and they are doing very well without any sort of underhandedness, so I know that it's possible -- and I do believe that Primerica's a legitimate company with no conspiracy to exploit or defraud anyone. But as you say, I've also seen upwards of 90% of the people they recruit disappear from the business within a few months, and this article should not try to ignore the reasons they criticize the company. Nor should it ignore that the very fact that each hierarchy has a certain independence means that there ARE bad agents out there whose actions reflect very poorly on the company. Let's just try to work constructively towards an honest NPOV view -- attributing views properly, and not turning the article into an attack on or defense of the company. — Catherine\^talk 17:12, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

That is true- it's not very neutral. Upon reading what we have now, I think that the version we have now is the best we have- it keeps the bad areas but neutralizes them. I'm still a little skeptical of the $199 fee though- I mean, if it really were based on training fees from the US states and Canadian provinces it wouldn't be uniform, it would vary (since every state has different costs associated with this kind of procedure. Perhaps if the statement also read, "though this claim is disputed by former agents" it would be even more satisfactory.

I'd also like to state that I don't believe Primerica are fraud artists, because legally they do not fruad people. Everything they do is legal- they just use any loophole they can find to "hide" the bad aspects. For example, about "duping" people into the $199 fee: they'll bring it up in the presentation (in my case, it was presented as a "course" they offer and is a lot less expensive than at a college, in my case Humber was used), explain it a little (throwing in the bit about the scholarships, which was what drove me out of the company in the end because it seemed like I couldn't get a dime before I finished the course, when I was made to believe that I could do some "training sessions" in front of families that would qualify me) and then get on about how great the company is. You don't remember the presenter saying anything about it (and I had to listen carefully the second time around to catch that as soon as I got hired I'd pay the fee), but, if you try to say in a court of law that "you were not made aware of it," they can turn around and say that they did say something, because they actually did- they just presented it in a way that made you forget about it. I personally call it a "legal scam", because it's advertized as a potential way to make lots of money but in reality very few make that money.-RomeW

Purported cult

This material is from the article List of purported cults, which we are paring down to a pure list. Editors here can best evaluate its statements and decide how to integrate it into this article. Thanks, -Willmcw 10:58, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

Primerica

Primerica is a large financial services company, which is a member of Citigroup, and is considered a cult by some of its opponents. According to the testimonies of victims, Primerica seeks converts by luring friends and relatives of its employees, some of which purchase insurance and some join full-time as recruiters deriving profits from new converts, thus employing a MLM scheme. Some accuse Primerica of employing mind-control.

Primerica attracted criticism due to what some describe as dubious practices, unscrupulousness and agressiveness in client relationships and usage of religious practices to prevent employees from quitting Primerica and disclosing the truth about it. During the regular meetings, recruiters shout "yes" and "amen" and demonstrate other distinctive qualities of a cult.

The company combats negative public image by funding advertizing and PR campaigns.

References:

• http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/links.htm - MLM practices, Primerica.
• http://ww3.primerica.com/public/who/articles/metamorphosis2.html - Primerica responds to accusations of being a cult.

17:22, 13 November 2005 (UTC)17:22, 13 November 2005 (UTC)~

In general,Primerica suffers from some of the same issues as other MLM businesses. I should clarify that MLM does not mean scam, it's simply an entirely voluntary hierarchy system based on amount of members recruited/business done (either through volume or dollar amount). Most of these issues have to do with the impossible difficulty of controlling such a large representative base. One greedy rep, and now people get screwed. The top of the hierarchy's message to reps is always the same: be honest and help people. Some members take the traditional approach to high pressure insurance sales, which turns away potential reps and clients. Every MLM suffers from some organizations that participate in unethical practices. However, the quality of services offered through Primerica are undoubtadly high and definitely in demand for any willing and able rep to build a lasting and profitable business with.

The products/services offered and compensation provided to reps are what differenciates PFS from other MLM systems. There is a real demand for what Primerica offers to middle class families, not overpriced groceries. The system also does not suffer from hundreds of dollars in investment per month to be successful. The licenses gained are legitimate, the need is legitimate, and the vast majority of reps follow the rules and guidelines set by the company.

On the subject of the one time $199 fee, this fee was talked about towards the end of the Overview, and explained thoroughly by the RVP. The fee is broken down into two parts:

1.)$40, non refundable. Goes towards federal and state background checks. No Felons, please.

2.)$159, refundable. This is for the prelicensing courses provided by the company. The cost of the course is over $500. The $159 is the amount that the rep puts towards that amount. The company pays the rest. If a rep does not get licensed in 120 days, the fee will be refunded and the rep will no longer exist with the company.

In ending, I have not heard any "Amens" or mention of "God" in correlation with the company or any of its members. Generalizing the business as a cult is simply irresponsible and ignorant.

Italic text== Similar State Fees ==

RomeW: You are right in that each state has different fees for getting licensed, and I'm writing this to clarify why the company consistently asks only $199. What the company does is it subsidises (SP) the cost of training and licensing but makes it easier for it's agents by asking for the same fee in submitting an independant business application. The license, facility, materials and instructor generaly costs more than $199.00, so the company makes up the gap.

As an example it may cost (and these are examples don't take them as the actual expense) $450 for the company to license a person in California, $250 in Kansas and $120 in Maine, but the company only asks $199.

The reason they do that is to make it easier on their field reps. I live in Kansas City, 2 miles from the state line. I spend time in both states. If I did have someone interested in a career how confusing would it be to say licening is $199 in KS but $250 in MO? What if we lived in a tri-state area?

The office I'm licensed to work out of is one of the best in the company at licensing people which is 30%. In fact the company has asked the owner of our office to develop material on how we have such a hight recruit to code ration, because some offices have a recruit to code ration less than 1%.

As for people quitting, the company ratio's are about the same as those of most colleges. Simply look at how many students start as freshmen and compare that to how many graduate with a bachelors, then masters, then PHD's. Any individuals success is based on their effort, and people who don't work or can't be disciplined quit. Assuming everyone would be successful is as realistic as expecting everyone who goes to college to come out with a PHD. (It seems that this paragraph is implying that one is only successful if he or she recieves a Ph.D, I recommend rewording this. Many students are quite successful with only an associates or batchelor's degree. Further, regarding the majority of undergraduate institutions: Most schools that only graduated one to thirty percent of its enrolled students would probably be investigated and would then most likely have its accreditation suspended or even revoked)