Talk:Canadian Caper: Difference between revisions

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-{{WikiProject Canada|cangov=yes|class=Start|importance=Low}}
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-{{dyktalk|31 July|2006|entry=...that the [[Politics of Canada|Canadian government]] rescued six U.S. [[Diplomacy|diplomats]] during the seizure of the [[Diplomatic mission|United States embassy]] in [[Tehran]] in a [[Secrecy|covert]] operation named the '''[[Canadian caper]]'''?}}
-{{OnThisDay|date1=2012-01-27|oldid1=473426856}}
-== POV ==
-Removed this:
-:John Sheardown, despite undertaking an arguably greater risk due to his lower position, lesser security, and protection of four of the six endangered diplomats, was largely forgotten by the American media and subsequently Congress.
-Seems like a pointless POV conclusion. Was Sheardown a source for the book or what? --[[User:Dhartung|Dhartung]] | [[User talk:Dhartung|Talk]] 02:34, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
-:Additionally, the section I broke out as "analysis" is definitely in need of citations for its various POV conclusions. For instance, the CIA had to have been throwing all its resources at Iran by mid-November or so, and they were undoubtedly working on various angles at both influencing the regime and securing the hostages' release, so their presence could not have been solely to support the Canadian operation. If they knew of it, and I bet they got wind of it at least, they might have been part of a Plan B. But conclusory opinion of that ilk should always have a citation. --[[User:Dhartung|Dhartung]] | [[User talk:Dhartung|Talk]] 02:40, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
-::On further consideration I just removed practically the whole section, as it simply reeked of Canadian defensiveness and made the Canadian diplomats, and Canada generally, look as if they did the whole thing to make the U.S. love them and were, oh my, scorned again. Maybe that's the way Canadians always see US-CAN relations but it really isn't appropriate here. The speculation about the danger was not very germane as Canada spent the months between the Revolution and the hostage crisis getting its own citizens out of Iran, and the Americans having 50-odd diplomats held hostage, something you have to go almost back to the Boxer Rebellion to see, could be forgiven for seeing things differently. But I bet that Taylor et al. saw things very much from their colleagues' point of view. --[[User:Dhartung|Dhartung]] | [[User talk:Dhartung|Talk]] 03:52, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
-It's always nice to see non-historians editing history pieces.  Think I'll swing by a biology entry and edit the crap out of it.  I can always use the fact that I read a magazine article on the subject as justification that I know what I'm talking about.  [[Special:Contributions/198.164.251.37|198.164.251.37]] ([[User talk:198.164.251.37|talk]]) 17:42, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
-== CIA involvement ==
-While many Canadians did in fact assist with the rescue of the Americans, it has come to light in the past several years that the CIA was more heavily involved than originally publicized.
-See: http://cicentre.com/intelligencespeakers/ISB_L-Z/SP_MENDEZ_Tony.htm
-Portions of Antonio Mendez' first book "Master of Disguise" recount his efforts in leading the rescue. This has since been publicly acknowleged in the media - see the bottom of http://www.farsinet.com/news/mar98wk1.html for an example. I think there should be mention of this in the wiki. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:216.144.80.51|216.144.80.51]] ([[User talk:216.144.80.51|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/216.144.80.51|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
-:Already working on it! It's really an incredible, dramatic story and not enough of that was in the article. Thanks for mentioning it regardless. --[[User:Dhartung|Dhartung]] | [[User talk:Dhartung|Talk]] 06:11, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
-== Wired Article ==
-Facinating article at Wired about this
-http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.05/feat_cia.html
-Not sure how to best incorporate. [[User:Aexia|Aexia]] 21:23, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
-== Lord of Light ==
-According to the Guardian [http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2010/jan/05/hugos-lord-of-light-zelazny] , the cover-up plan involved using film sets from a real production of an adaptation of [[Roger Zelazny]]'s novel [[Lord of Light]]. Is this verifiable? --[[User:Mattmm|Mattmm]] ([[User talk:Mattmm|talk]]) 10:58, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
-:As per pre-Wikipedia sources cited in the article on ''[[Lord of Light]]'' itself, yes. And the sets were designed by [[Jack Kirby]]. Is this worth mentioning in the article? [[User:DragonflySixtyseven|DS]] ([[User talk:DragonflySixtyseven|talk]]) 13:39, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
-== Should the article "A Classic Case of Deception..." be copied to wikisource? ==
-I'm not fluent on public domain laws conserning the CIA.  I would think that the article could be copied since it was written by a government employee who wrote it during the course of everyday duties.
-Thoughts?
-[[User:Sohmc|sohmc]] ([[User talk:Sohmc|talk]]) 20:30, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
-== Now we rewrite the history ==
-- huh?  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.229.48.235|99.229.48.235]] ([[User talk:99.229.48.235|talk]]) 03:49, 26 September 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
-== New information on subject ==
-see video file  http://www.ctvnews.ca/w5/argo-iran-hostage-crisis-film-fiddles-with-the-facts-1.1167994  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.255.168.249|99.255.168.249]] ([[User talk:99.255.168.249|talk]]) 05:00, 24 February 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
-==President Carter states it was 90% a Canadian operation==
-Well, the main new piece of information, is that president Jimmy Carter, the president when this event took place, says that the operation was about 90 percent Canadian, and that the CIA played a minor role in organizing the escape. Mendez, and the film based on his books, ''Argo'', overstate how important the CIA's ruse was for getting the six Americans out of Iran. See Carter's interview on CNN's Piers Morgan where he states ""The other thing that I would say was that 90 percent of the contributions to the ideas and the consummation of the plan was Canadian," notes the 88-year-old. "The movie gives almost full credit to the American CIA. And with that exception, the movie's very good."*
-*{{cite news
- | last         = Morgan
- | first        = Piers
- | title        = Jimmy Carter on ''Argo'': "It's a great drama, and I hope it gets the Academy Award for best film
- | url          = http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/22/jimmy-carter-on-argo-its-a-great-drama-and-i-hope-it-gets-the-academy-award-for-best-film/
- | accessdate   = 2013-02-25
- | newspaper    = Piers Morgan Tonight
- | date         = February 22, 2013
- | publisher    = CNN
- | archiveurl   = http://www.webcitation.org/6EhJ93NZ4
- | archivedate  = 2013-02-24
- | deadurl      = no
- | location     = New York
- | ref          = harv
-}}
---[[User:Abebenjoe|Abebenjoe]] ([[User talk:Abebenjoe|talk]]) 14:48, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
-:It's more important that the film article get this information in full. This [[Canadian Caper]] article can briefly list what is different between the film and reality rather than go into great detail about what this or that person said about ''Argo''. I would be on the lookout for commentators observing 1) that in reality there was no scary bazaar scene with the diplomats going out for a look around, 2) that there was no last minute change to the airline tickets with a tense scene at the ticket counter, 3) that there was no questioning or gunfire or car chase at the airport (the plan went very smoothly), 4) that Mendez brought a partner known as "Julio" who was just as important in the caper, 5) that the diplomats lived in several places in Tehran, not just one, 6) that the diplomats could go outdoors because at least one house had an enclosed garden, 7) that the Hollywood scenes in the film include some composite characters, one wholly fabricated character, and significant changes to reality, 8) that Mendez was not having trouble with his marriage, 9) that Mendez was not poorly regarded at the CIA, and 10) that other embassies than Canada were helpful, for instance the Swedes. [[User:Binksternet|Binksternet]] ([[User talk:Binksternet|talk]]) 17:23, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
-::I'll start editing the ''Argo'' article when the fuss dies down; but until then, I just want to make sure that the fiction it portrays doesn't end up in the article that is attempting to portray the facts in a historically accurate methodology, consistent with Wikipedia guidelines. In other words, if editors, who's only information about this rescue comes from the film, take the time to read the talk page, they will then know that even the president of the United States at the time thinks that the film was great melodrama, but played fast and loose with the actual facts. As the article is written, I think that is apparent, and I don't feel the need to add the Carter quotes unless there is a rash of edits trying to promote the Afflack POV.--[[User:Abebenjoe|Abebenjoe]] ([[User talk:Abebenjoe|talk]]) 18:17, 25 February 2013 (UTC)