Talk:Pyramid Head

Page move!

With the release of the movie, along with a few official sources mentioning the name as the "Red Pyramid," I've moved the page here. Sources: http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/silenthill/productiondiary/archives/2006/04/on_the_red_pyra.php - first question

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0384537/combined - lists as red pyramid

http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/silenthill/characters/ - lists as red pyramid

-- Voretus 05:31, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

The "official" name is kind of strange, considering in the movie it's not red at all. --Vyran 02:03, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, that second source listed has an entry for both Pyramid Head and for "Red Pyramid/Janitor/Colin", which is pretty bizarre considering Colin is very unlikely to be Pyramid Head. Tzepish 18:28, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I think the reason it's listed as "Red Pyramid/Janitor/Colin" is not because they are same person in the film, but because they are all played by the same person (i forget his name, it's in here somewhere). --thaddius

not dry humping

Changed the description of PH's assualt on the creatures from "Dry Humping" to "assualting." Sexual assualt is a fan theory, not a fact!

The seal that appears throughout the town in Silent Hill 1 is the Seal of Metatron.

Proof:

Silent Hill: After the Flauros is used in the amusement park, Dahlia, who is now able to enter the otherworld, says: "I was shocked to discover that the Talisman of Metatron was being used".

Silent Hill 3:

1. Heather & Vincent conversation

Vincent: By the way, I forgot to ask you. Did you get the seal of Metatron?

Heather: What's that?

Vincent: You don't have it?! Leonard was carrying it!

Heather: You mean this thing? (Heather takes out the talisman she previously found)

Vincent: Yes, that's it. As long as we have that, we're fine.

2. The church tape

(Heather plays the tape)

Vincent: Do you know about what happened here 17 years ago?

Vincent: You've been here a long time, you must have heard some details.

Woman: A group of pagans, blinded by earthly desires, spit in the very face of God.

Woman: They tried to use the seal of Metatron to prevent God's awakening.

3. Finale

(Heather takes out the seal)

Claudia: The Seal of Metatron!

09:16, 5 February 2006 (UTC)~~ However, metatron is the force that opposes samael, hence why the cult members despise it so. So why would Metatron's seal be with PH? The Save point symbol in 3 is the mark of samael.

I'm under the impression that Metatron and Samael are simply two names for same entity. One of the books found in the final areas of SH3 revealed that gods often have two names; the worshippers of a god would give it a holy name (Metatron in this case) while their enemies would call it by a different, unholy name (Samael.) Dahlia used the name Samael when talking to Harry because she wanted him to believe her to be an enemy of the god, not one of its most devoted worshippers. She was deceiving him. Druff 19:18, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Multiple Pyramid Heads?

I'm wondering if this article should refer to the Pyramid Head as a single entity or as a set of creatures that exist in the world of Silent Hill 2. Although 2 Pyramid Heads fight James in a boss battle, I thought the suggestion was that the two are just representative of the same singular being that had been terrorizing James earlier; That is to say that the Pyramid Head can make himself appear as two beings though still having a single consciousness. It seemed to me that in James' brief monologue before the fight, he continued to refer to Pyramid Head as a single entity.

I removed speculative information regarding the reason behind the second Pyramid Head's appearance, which previously stated that James' killing of Eddie was the catalyst. It's probably not true, but the fact is, no one knows for certain. The page now reflects this.

Several Errors to "Pyramid Head."

First of all, I don't think that this article has enough significance that it should be deleted or moved to "List of Silent Hill characters" or "Silent Hill." It contains too many theories and lacks resource to be a pointful subject.

If this article needs to be left seperate, it should atleast be renamed to "Red Pyramid Thing." Pyramid Head is not the canonical name of the character. Pyramid Head is fan-label given to a nameless character. (Although refered to as Red Pyramid Thing several times by official sources.) If this name should be kept, then someone should provide an official labelling of "Pyramid Head" by Konami, the Silent Hill team, or any other canon source.

Are you serious? That the name "Pyramid Head" is a fan creation is a myth. In Silent Hill 2, the inventory screen's description for the egg-keys you take from their bodies is something along the lines of "It's a rust-coloured egg. Pyramid Head was holding it." The cutscene with James meeting Eddie is the only time "red pyramid [thing]" is used in the English version, if I'm remembering right. While we're on the subject of errors to pyramid head, this article is contains a mind-boggling degree of unprofessional writing and formatting (not to mention inconsistency). For instance, the entire Symbolism section should be under Various Fan Theories, and overall, reading it made me feel like I was looking at the GameFAQs message boards. In other words, nausea. This isn't directed at you, unless you wrote it or something.

I never liked the name "Red Pyramid" (it feels like an inadequate descriptor), but has anyone gone to the trouble of checking out the Japanese version and finding out if the different names he's given in the English version are because of the translation? --142.150.128.230 06:53, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

If the eggs are the only mention of "Pyramid Head," then it's not any more of an official name than "red pyramid thing" or "red devil," and such. The promotions for the movie, although it may not be considered canon, all refer to it as the Red Pyramid, along with posters and character things. Akira Yamaoka, the producer of many of the games and someone who is heavily involved with them, has also referred to it as such. -- Voretus 07:43, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

In the character guide of the book "Lost Memories" he is identified as "Red Pyramid Thing". McPhail 19:46, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't James himself identify the thing as "Pyramid Head" in the game? Is it just me? It seems that the name is Pyramid Head as the guy said earlier, that items are said to have been held by Pyramid Head, not Red Pyramid Thing. --Thaddius

The renaming of this page is absurd. Throughout the entire game, he is constantly referred to as Pyramid Head. When you examine the dual Pyramid Heads after they kill themselves, James says "Pyramid Head's not moving anymore...". When you go down into his lair and take his knife(sort of an easter egg), the game asks you if you want to take Pyramid Head's knife. The name Pyramid Head was created in the game, by James, and it's pretty much the only name he's ever given within the game itself. The name of this page should be reverted ASAP. That said, I think the article was previously a bit too presumptuous about the name. To prevent ambiguity, the article should start out with the line "Pyramid Head is the nickname of a fictional monster from the video game Silent Hill 2. Although the character is nameless, the game's protagonist, James Sunderland, usually refers to him as Pyramid Head." I'll make these changes in a day or two if there are no objections.

I object. James does not always refer to it as pyramid head, even though he may do it many times. In most of the official sources, he is either called the red pyramid thing or the red pyramid. I also reiterate the fact that both the new film and Mr. Akira Yamaoka have referred to it as Red P or Red Pyramid.

Might I point out that everything that Yamoka says was probably translated into English from Japanese? Also, if it's referred to as Pyramid Head in the game where he first appears, doesn't that make it the 'real' name? People are always wetting themselves over the official guides, and the official guide I have says Pyramid Head. Oh, something else, I find the name Pyramid Head is a better description that Red Pyramid, because he has a Pyramid for a Head, and he is not a Red Pyramid, just has one on his head. You get me?

For the majority of times James refers to it, he calls it Pyramid Head. He only calls it something else when he's trying to explain it's existence to another character, but he clearly establishes that his name for it is Pyramid Head. Explain to me how "the official guide"'s version of the name can somehow take complete prevalence over both the name used most frequently IN THE GAME ITSELF and over the most well-known name for the creature? Calling it "Red Pyramid" is certainly not the 'correct' usage by any means, and beyond that, it's just pointlessly confusing. As long as the article points out the ambiguity of the name as I mentioned earlier, (and it would certainly be no problem to mention the variations of the name,) I fail to see why one version of the name trumps another, when the other is clearly the most prevalent.

"Explain to me how "the official guide"'s version of the name can somehow take complete prevalence over both the name used most frequently IN THE GAME ITSELF and over the most well-known name for the creature?" He won't have to, because the official guide calls him "Pyramid Head" as well. Even if it is a translation issue, Pyramid Head would be the proper name to use (the Megaman pages are all called "Megaman" instead of "Rockman", for example). Tzepish 18:21, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

It's "Pyramid Head". It's not even like "Mr. X" being the fan name for the Tyrant in Resident Evil 2, the name is given and is prevalent dozens of times over than "Red Pyramid". This should have been discussed before making such a sweeping change across pages. Voice of Treason 00:37, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

This is another good point. This page should not have been moved without any discussion prior; I don't mind continuing this debate, but the page should be moved back to Pyramid Head in the meantime.

Who wants to move it?

This article should just be deleted. It's a theory hole, obviously trivial material from fan work that really has no point being hosted on Wikipedia, rather than the hundreds of other sites dedicated to this. There's not enough factual basis behind this, and is generally too ambiguous to be posted on an objective web page.

Looking at the article, I can see how one would have this opinion, but I think the page has some legitimate merit. Just skimming the page I can see that it's mostly about what fans think of it, which, I agree, is completely irrelevant in the context of wikipedia. All the 'fan theory' bits need to be deleted ASAP. Rodeosmurf 02:25, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Couple errors I noticed

But won't correct since I don't know the game (I just saw the movie). First, it mentions that Red Pyramid is featured in the movie despite his not being in the second film. You mean second game, right? Secondly, the entire line: The Red Pyramid's "pyramid" in the movie is actually a four-faced tetrahedron. Yes, a tetrahedron is by definition 4-faced, but that's not the shape it was in the film. Rainman420 06:31, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Not Colin

The Pyramid Head in the film is certainly not Colin, as Colin was most certainly the mutilated (and tied by barbed wire - Alessa's preferred killing device) corpse in the stall.

Here here. I don't think there's any real indication that it's anyone at all. The most viable explaination, to me, is that it's possibly the father of Alessa? (Somehow he seems to be under Dahlia's command, she points at the red haired girl and she ends up dead).

A lot of people have been adding sections to the fan theories part of the movies interpretation saying that he is Colin. I added a blurb at the to of the section outlining that he isn't, but unless someone comes up with conclusive evidence, I move that the blurb stays intact. PS. Someone stated in one that I deleted that one can clearly see Pyramid Head with the nametag 'Colin'. Can anyone verify this? --Thaddius 22:46, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm the author of the section you deleted. There's very definitely a scene in which a 'Colin' nametag is visible on Pyramid Head. Both my girlfriend and I remember noticing it and thinking it odd, because it's visible during Pyramid Head's first appearance, before the flashback that features Colin. I wouldn't take this to mean that Pyramid Head is Colin, though, but rather an exaggerated version of Colin created within Alessa's mind after she was traumatized by his rape. To explain further... First of all... Remember that Silent Hill has three levels of reality. One is the "completely real" version of reality, which Rose's husband stays in throughout the movie, and which is denoted by scenes in which the colors are normal. The second is the "dreamy silent hill" in which everything looks foggy. And the third is the "dark silent hill" -- denoted by the scenes that begin with a loud horn sounding and the extremely dark lighting. These's a scene later in the movie in which "the demon" tells Rose that "Silent Hill has fallen into Alessa's darkest nightmare." I took this to mean that the "dark silent hill" scenes are representative of things that are part of Alessa's psyche, and specifically part of the nightmares she experiences as a result of having been raped by Colin the janitor as a child. Naturally, any young child would greatly exaggerate the monstrousness of the experience of having been raped in her mind. Evidence of Pyramid Head's being a psychological symbol:

• Pyramid Head appears only during the "dark silent hill" scenes.
• During his first appearance, a horde of bugs trails at his feet that look like exaggerated versions of the cockroaches in the flashback scene with Colin the janitor.
• He pursues Rose and Cybil and corners them in a small room, then uses his large knife (a clear phallic symbol) to rip a hole through a large metal door, then thrusts the knife repeatedly through the hole, making it wider. This can easily be seen as a metaphor for, or an exaggerated version of, Alessa's rape.
• In his second appearance, he forcibly rips off Anna's clothing -- which can also be seen as an analog for part of the rape experience -- and then rips off her skin, which can be seen as an analog of her having had her skin burned off of her.

Kate6 13:51, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I should probably expand on this... One of the central points I'm making here is that the "darkness" scenes relate to Alessa's psyche and not Dahlia's psyche. The other theory on the page, the one you chose not to remove, conjectures that Pyramid Head originates within Dahlia's psyche and is representative of her guilt over having surrendered her daughter to a cult that tried to burn her alive. It then makes some ad-hoc explanation for the fact that Pyramid Head is male, basically explaining away the fact that if he's an aspect of Dahlia's mind, he would probably be feminine, like Dahlia. In other words, this theory does not fully make sense internally. By contrast, as I said, during the exposition scene near the end of the movie, the "demon" actually tells Rose straight out that the 'darkness' scenes correspond to 'Alessa's darkest nightmare.' As such, the notion that Pyramid Head is an exaggerated version of a masculine figure that hurt her makes a lot more sense. Kindly revert my section back in, please. Kate6 19:49, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Your conections to Pyramid head putting a knife through a metal door and rape are a stretch to me. While the knife is an obvious phallic symbol, going through a door is odd. Classic horror films connect the act of stabbing a victim with rape; it is unwanted penetration that tends to make the woman scream. A door... a metal one at that... shows no real connection to human flesh. Another problem I have it, Pyramid Head seems to attack Anna at the order of Dahlia. If Pyramid Head is under Dahlia's orders I do'nt see a viable connection to Alessa. I know you're probably upset that I deleted your section, but I have yet to see this part where you can see Colin's nametag on PH. If you could give me a link to a screenshot of the film if possible, and then post it in your article, I would not contest it. If PH is Colin, the connectino was made poorly, possibly due to bad script or poor directing. --Thaddius 15:22, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Another problem I have is that Colin appears in dark silent hill as well, in the form of the yoga guy (his nametag is celarly seen there). I don't understand why there would be two Colins in dark Silent Hill. --Thaddius 15:26, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

The connection with Anna and her clothes and skin are a stretch too. Alessa may not have been naked when burned, and even if she was, she was not burned ot derobed by Colin. His function as a enacter of revenge in the same way The Order hurt her has no real connection to Colin.

Okay, I've just obtained a copy of the film and it appears we were mistaken -- the nametag we noticed was on the "yoga guy," not on Pyramid Head. I still think our theory makes at least as much sense, if not moreso, than the theory currently on the page.

• I do think the analogy between the ripping of the metal door and rape is valid. The ripping of the metal door constitutes an unwanted penetration of the room Rose and Cybil are using as a sanctuary.
• What makes women scream during rape is that it's quite painful to be penetrated without the lubrication that's normally present when we're actually aroused. It would be even more painful for a young girl whose vagina is not yet fully formed to be penetrated. Regardless, I don't see what this point has to do with the discussion we're having -- Rose and Cybil do scream (in fear) when the sword emerges through the door... And the only reason they don't get stabbed is because they duck out of the way.
• I don't think Pyramid Head was obeying Dahlia. I think Pyramid Head kills Anna because Alessa would naturally feel angry towards members of the cult that burned her. The fact that Dahlia eggs him on is coincidental.
• The appearance of 'yoga guy' seems to me to be in "nightmare silent hill," even though it actually happens during the transition from 'dark silent hill' to 'nightmare silent hill.'
• I think his function as an enacter of revenge happens just because he's very definitely the most powerful figure within Alessa's psyche. Again, I never said I think he's supposed to actually BE Colin... Rather that he's an exaggerated version of Colin. A figure within Alessa's psyche that was originally inspired by Colin, but who's become part of her psyche. Part of Alessa.

I'll admit this theory does have a few holes and loose points... But it honestly makes more sense to me than the theory currently on the page. I mean... The notion that this guy rapes Dahlia's daughter and Dahlia then comes to see him as a father figure not only contradicts most of what I know about the psychology of rape, but is also fairly offensive, IMHO. Kate6 19:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

That person who put the other theory there made no connections to Colin, if I remember correctly, and they are mostly working to tie the Pyramid Head from the Silent Hill games to the Pyramid Head from the film. I agree that PH could be Alessa's fear of masculinity (the only male who she enver encountered was Colin and he raped her, therefore the image of a raping man would be scary), but you'll notice, again that Ph didn't penetrate any amount of flesh and that the two women were not penetrated in any way in the film. By all means put your stuff back, I would personally just avoid mentioning PH being Colin. I may have been hasty in deleting your post but you aren't the first person to mention him being Colin that I got rid of. I guess I just lost patience.

Your post actually could be an Alessa version of the Dahlia one that's there. Again, I only deleted it cause of the Colin connection which bothered me. Sorry about that. --thaddius 03:03, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Just checked it out and the other theory does not say that PH is Colin, it says that Dahlia felt guilty for there not being a father figure for Alessa and that Dahlia, as a mother, was unable to protect Alessa in some ways, which included Alessa being raped. --thaddius 03:07, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I keep forgetting things I want to say, sorry. I wanted to talk about Anna. she is clearly under the age of 30 therefore, Alessa would have no real beef with her as the cult was sucked into Silent Hill presumably in the 70s. While Alessa's burning (pun) rage would probably extend to spwan of her enemies, this is not overtly mentioned. I'm just saying that if PH character created by Alessa... I can't see her trying to get Anna. But I am not THE authority on this so I won't contest your posting of that info. --thaddius 03:07, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

You're assuming that Anna wasn't there in the 70s, and they've all been dead this whole time, just like it could be that Rose and Cybil are dead when they enter foggy Silent Hill. --Golbez 09:21, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I never said anyhting about any of them being dead beforehand. --Thaddius 16:41, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I was unclear. You're assuming Anna was alive. I think they were all dead, and have been since the 70s. --Golbez 20:44, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to remind everyone that Wikipedia is not a rumor mill or a theory discussion forum - please read the guidelines on Original Research. Leave much of this for a dedicated website. --Golbez 09:21, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

These theories (not 'rumors') are an important part of understanding the function of the chracter of Pyramid Head, which is probably the function in having a page dedicated to Pyramid Head, no? And no one is using the main page to discuss theories, but instead we are using the talk page to sort out theories. Much better than everyone writing whatever they feel like on the main page. --Thaddius 16:41, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

No one is using the main page? What about all those uncited theories I see in the article? --Golbez 20:44, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay, a few points:

• Anna was already on the steps of the church, running in there with the rest of the cult members, when PH grabbed her. So even if she wasn't there during the cult's original activities, she was clearly a member.
• If you'll recall, at the end of the movie, Dahlia is genuinely surprised when she finally realizes that she isn't going to be killed. I think this is a fairly clear indicator that she wasn't the one in control. She asks "Why didn't she kill me?" and Rose tells her "Because you're her mother." Another possible motivation for PH's picking on Anna was that she'd just thrown a stone at Alessa's mother... Essentially a daughter protecting her mother.
• I'm not sure why you feel there needs to be a strong connection between Pyramid Head from the movie and Pyramid Head from the games. I'd imagine they brought the character back just because big fans of the games' would enjoy seeing a live action version, but without the character of James from SH2, they gave him a new meaning, but still stuck with the notion that he's there as part of someone's psyche/subconscious. -- Kate6 17:29, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

  That's my feeling. The only connection is the character, not the story. --Golbez 20:44, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I never said that Dahlia was in control of the entire town. I said there is an indication that she is in contorl of Pyramid Head. You'll remember that the town suspects Alessa of being a witch, that Dahlia may have copulated with some sort of devil to make her. Why the Order doesn't go after Dahlia is beyond me, but she is expelled. Again, I do not think Dahlia is in control of the town, but there is indication that she is in control of PH. As for the links to the game, I didn't write that part, take it up with whoever did. --Thaddius 21:22, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

• Anna was most likely there in the 70's. Since the entire cult died in 1971 and assumably did not age when dead.

Now you're assuming they're all dead? This makes no sense. If they were all dead, why was Alessa trying to kill them all?

OK. I added a section based on the plausable aspects of the theory put forth here, but omitting the aspects that allude to PH being Colin. Everyone satisfied? Can we delete this gigantic post? --Thaddius 14:10, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Plausable or not, there really should not be this much unsupported material here. See WP:NOR. --InShaneee 14:36, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, so THAT's why you keep deleting things.

OK, I posted a reference to my James Sunderland Theory. Happy? --Thaddius 15:10, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Somebody's thoughts about the game on GameFAQs aren't really a source that we can use to verify article content. See Wikipedia:Reliable sources. --InShaneee 15:25, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

It's a documented viable theory, I don't see a problem. Would you rather I posed an article stating that PH is James? Well why don't you jsut go around deleting averything like you've already been doing. Cause that's productive too, isn't it?

Please remain civil. There is a difference between 'documented' and 'documented by multiple reliable, independently verifiable sources'. Only theories that that can be done for should be presented, and all others must be removed. --InShaneee 16:13, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

These theories are an integreal part of understanding the character. Without them the page would simply say "Pyramid Head is a fictional charcter from the survival horror video game, Silent Hill". Go ahead and delete everything, but I can't see that being justified.

It is justified according to wikipedia's policies of verifiability, as well as the policies I've mentioned in my previous comments. --InShaneee 16:51, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

References

If more links like this (to plot analysis guides and such) are made, I think there would be enough reference material to remove the {{unreferenced}} tag. The only problem is that GameFAQs doesn't allow direct linking to FAQs, so if you use it you'll just have to link to the main FAQ page. Anyone familiar with the various theories and their origins (Not I) are welcome to try. Kil 16:04, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Symbolism

If the whole 'fan theories' section was delted, why is the symbolism one still there? --Thaddius 02:20, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Pyramid Head/Colin Info

This is my first post on Wikipedia so if I'm doing something wrong, my apologies.

Roberto Campanella, the man who is listed as playing Red Pyramid/Janitor/Colin in the Silent Hill movie has answered some questions on his IMDB page. (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1716739/) There is one reply he made that would answer some fan speculation. This is from the topic on his page titled "creatures in silent hill" (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1716739/board/thread/42144148). You have to register and login to read topics.

Q: I have one question though. I was wondering why you played the parts of both Janitor/Colin and Pyramid Head. Both were extremely well done and couldnt have been better but its odd that one actor would be cast in two completely different and demanding roles.

Roberto: to answer to your question, the only thing that i can tell you is that, at some point during the shooting, christophe came to me and asked me if i was interested in doing another creature that they had just created. Seeing as you only clearly see my face only once as colin, i guess it was ok for me to play multiple roles in the film.

Essentially, this means that there could have been two different actors for Colin and Pyramid Head each, but it was played by one person for convenience. I'm merely pointing this out as to prevent future arguements of "Pyramid Head is Colin". He also talks about other behind the scenes things on his page, very interesting stuff to read. Also, if you're concerned about his grammar, Roberto is originally from Rome and moved to Canada. I'm guessing that English is not his first language.