User talk:T1259

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Please delete it Stefan. Its redundant. T1259 (talk) 01:38, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Badr Jafar reverts

Stop reverting the Badr Jafar edit i add. The edit says he is of shia background and the source clearly says his father is a "secular Shiite", as i show in the edit summary. Either read the source properly or stop lying in your edit summaries. If you keep reverting i will report you to be blocked from editing.--49.195.43.215 (talk) 23:13, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

I have reverted the edit. Please let me know the line in the article that says Badr Jafar is a Shia. Your reference points to Hamid Jafar and Dr Allawi. It can be deduced logically that Badr might be Shia, but you need a clear reference that Badr is Shia to say that it meets Wikipedia guidelines. For all you know, Badr Jafar may not necessarily identify as Shia, unless you can get a reference. T1259 (talk) 05:18, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

You are either being deliberately obstructive or you have a low IQ; luckily for you, if it is the latter i am patient enough to explain my edit in the most basic way. 1) The source says "Hamid Jafar may now be advising Dr Allawi on how to make the nation of his birth whole. Both men are secular Shiite Muslims who have lived outside Iraq, which means they may have similar outlooks." 2) Hamid Jafar is Badr Jafar's father. 3) My edit says "Badr Jafar is of Iraqi Shia origin" (due to his father's aforementionted background). My edit does not say "Badr Jafar is an Iraqi Shia." Badr could very well be an atheist or any other religion, hence i am only drawing attention to his origin. If you are confused by the word 'origin' then i will change it to 'background'. I hope this removes any confusion in your mind. --Mawlidman (talk) 00:53, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Please see WP:NPA. Why does it matter to you so much if he is Shia or Sunni origin? T1259 (talk) 01:22, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't matter to me so much "if he is [of] Shia or Sunni origin"; it is simply an important fact. If he was of Iraqi Jewish, Yazidi, Christian etc. background then i hardly think one should simply write he is of Iraqi background while ignoring the religious background. --Mawlidman (talk) 01:35, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Again, how do you determine if it is an "important fact"? A side reference to Hamid being of Shia origin in an article does not necessarily make it an important fact. It is you who want to emphasize that he is of Iraqi and Shia origin. And the reference to "secular Shiite" can be construed to be a POV by the author. T1259 (talk) 00:06, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

I can list for you countless articles that state the religious background of people—even if that religion plays no significant part in their lives. This is called precedent, which i am simply following. Perhaps more pertinently, why are you so resistant to such an inclusion even though countless other articles follow such an example? Are you worried this somehow negatively impacts his image? --Mawlidman (talk) 02:43, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

You're the one insisting on having Shia origins on the page because you deem it "important". Is it really that important? - I deem it as a fact but not overly essential to the article unless religion plays an influence on the person, for example Ted Cruz. Having religion in place is not mandatory, and if so, according to Wikipedia's policies, you still need to follow WP:NOR, rather than implying the religious background based on his father's origins. Just to get it clear - I am requesting you to do is to cite a reliable source that confirms Badr is Shia/raised Shia/of Shia origin - ie a direct source. If you can find one, please add it and I will have no opposition to that. T1259 (talk) 12:55, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Actually, i've come across plenty of articles that mention the religious background of the subject even if that religion has no known influence in their life. Who says i'm not following WP:NOR? What OR do you speak of when the source clearly says his father is a secular Shia? If his father is a secular Shia then he is of Shia background because he is born into a Shia family. What are you talking about of "a reliable source that confirms Badr is Shia/raised Shia/of Shia origin - ie a direct source"? Do you want a source that says "Badr said 'I am a Shia'"? If so, you have set a false condition. There is absolutely no reason to assume that the author of the article is wrong in his statement about Badr's background, and the onus is upon you to prove otherwise. Anyway, i will add an extra source i just found. --Mawlidman (talk) 14:33, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

"i've come across plenty of articles that mention" >> See Argument from ignorance. You need to provide a Wikipedia policy to substantiate that it is a requirement. "If his father is a secular Shia then he is of Shia background because he is born into a Shia family." >> See Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Thanks! T1259 (talk) 00:29, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

I'm glad you have a good grasp of fallacies, but the fact is I have now provided 2 different sources that mention his Shia familial background. I have provided my proof; now the onus is upon you to prove that these sources are false. I notice you edit almost exclusively articles related to Badr, so I'm wondering whether you are more irked this will somehow reflect negatively upon him, considering the sectarian tensions that currently exist in his part of the world, rather than being concerned with upholding Wikipedia policy. --Mawlidman (talk) 02:10, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

I urge you to assume good faith instead of making accusations, insinuations and resorting to personal attacks. Again you miss the point completely. I am not saying the sources are false, this is not open to dispute, and I will not touch base on that. I have asked you one question: "why do you think it is important" and you have repeatedly failed to give me an answer. I am keen to know your reasons why you think it is important. But you avoid the subject. I have asked you to provide a direct source, not an inference. To say that I am concerned if it reflects negatively on him is a wild assumption. You are welcome to edit the article to improve on it, but do so citing sources. I do not dispute facts, but when it comes to a person's religious beliefs or sexual orientation that is not public, I prefer to tread with caution and I ask you to please do so to provide a direct source. Please see WP:BLP. Why do you find it so hard to find a reference that I ask you of and point to inferred sources? T1259 (talk) 03:12, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Again the link between Jafar Dhia and Badr is not clear in the source you provided. Granted, they may be uncle and nephew but its unclear in the source. Just to let you know. T1259 (talk) 03:23, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

I have told you before it's important because it's a notable fact. It's as simple as that. What do you mean by direct source? If you mean a source where Jafar says I'm of Shia background then that is unnecessary. You are assuming, without proof, the authors are wrong in their statements. We have 2 sources that clearly mention his father's Shia background and the Shia background of the Jafar clan. That is more than adequate and far from inferred. --Mawlidman (talk) 04:40, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree your references are sufficient and have reverted them unless more accurate references can be found. Instead of using my talk page as a forum for wikipedia debate, we can use the BLP noticeboard for discussion if you agree with it. T1259 (talk) 11:44, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

You have provided no proof these are inaccrurate and irrelevant. Until you can prove this on BLP noticeboard you have no right to remove them. --Mawlidman (talk) 06:50, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm not going to waste my time on you anymore. Your comments are far from constructive, references are poor - the one that I removed, and you make false assumptions about my contributions. T1259 (talk) 07:19, 4 May 2016 (UTC)