Talk:Backyard wrestling

I think this article may be a bit biased against backyard wrestling and seems to be based around the backyard wrestling, for a lack of a better word, panic that happened around 2000. Its not like every backyard wrestler is a complete fool who will do anything. --Hammy 11:56, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've began the edit of the article. As I see it the main problem with the article is that it seems to focus on the stereotype of backyard wrestling while ignoring the fact that a very large portion (likely a majority and quite possibly a significant majority) do not fit the stereotype. If we could find some source material (studies and the like), we could make this article much more professional and fair. --Hammy 12:10, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

I agree that there's a problem with the article. That's why I added the controversy section a week or so ago; there was no voice given to the fact that backyard wrestling can be dangerous and most professional wrestlers do not support it. I specifically mentioned Mick Foley because in his second book, Foley is Good, he discusses his feelings about backyard wrestling in a fair and unbiased way, and recounts his experiences on a news magazine show (either Dateline or 20/20) which attempted to paint him as a supporter of backyard wrestling. That's one source. I also gave an internet source for the Harley Race quote. The "origin" section was originally the entire article, and I mostly left it alone, because despite what I believed to be some factual errors, I didn't feel like finding a ton of sources to disprove them. Anyway, I feel that the article should reflect what most associate with the term "backyard wrestling" as an entity, as opposed to just a group of friends protending to wrestle in their backyard. I used to do that, but I didn't consider it "backyard wrestling". When Harley Race answers the question partaining to the "backyard wrestling phenomenon" in the linked interview, there's no question as to what he's being asked about. --Chrysaor 22:42, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

A bunch of friends and I used to do the same thing and did it fairly organized and considered ourselves "backyard wrestlers." We however were not complete fools. That's not to say that we didn't do some risky things but for the most part it was reasonably safe. I think this article needs to articulate that there is a disconnect between the public's idea of backyard wrestling and what the reality of backyard wrestling is to most participants. I think if we JUST talk about the controversy and its dangers we're not giving a fully accurate pictures. Also on sourcing I was referring to the activities that a "normal" backyard wrester engages in and the prevalence in backyard wrestling of dangerous and idiotic actions. I agree that Foley (albeit pretty hypocritically) and Race were against backyard wrestling but we don't know what their attitudes were regarding backyard wrestling in the sense of a bunch of friends building a "ring" in their backyard and having fun in it compared to beating each other psychotically and setting each other on fire. Any thoughts on what the best way would be to expand the scope of the article if its needed? --Hammy 06:14, Mar 26, 2005 (UTC)

Well, the "Origin" section is pretty positive. Why not expand it? It'd be tricky to do without straying into POV, but if you'd feel better about the article, it'd be worth the time investment. --Chrysaor 03:16, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)

Backyard Wrestling, recategorized

I've gone to the trouble to relabel Backyard Wrestling under 'Fantasy wrestling' (a subcategory of professional wrestling), because it's not professional per se; it's the wrestling equivalent of a D&D LARP. Also, as it's done mainly in imitation of actual professional wrestling, It belongs here until and unless backyard wrestling becomes valid in its own right. Veled 17:44, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I didn't realize that caregory existed. --Chrysaor 01:30, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

I don't agree. All pro wrestling is 'fantasy wrestling' and I've seen indy matches that were less professional and done worse than many backyard guys. Backyard wrestling is and always has been valid in its own right.

You miss the point. The fantasy aspect in this case is in the training, not the actual show. Backyarders think they can wrestle without training - that's fantasy. With training - it ceases to be fantasy in the training sense. Whether or not it leads to good shows or bad is irrelevant because that argument can apply just as much to WWE as it could to a backyard fed. Curse of Fenric 23:13, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm a Backyarder

I am a backyard wrestler myself and did not like the original form of this article. It did not point out any good things that can come out of backyarding such as experience for being a professional later in life, and the entertainment that comes out of it.

I am also a backyarder, but like most backyarders, I wouldn't do anything that would hurt me. I'd like to go into pro wrestling if possible, so if doing backyard wrestling will allow me to advance better as a normal wrestler, then I'll do it. I had a link about my backyard wrestling title on a page, and it was removed because it was backyard wrestling. I can understand why it was removed, but I feel that even still it deserves a mentioned. I am thinking of adding a page on backyard wrestling championships in general, so that the titles can get some coverage until i get a full-blown webpage set up. Thanks for the support everybody!

Actually, although your proposal sounds like a good idea, I would also appreciate more information on the trends and practices of backyard wrestling. What trends exist in the sport today? How has it changed? How is it usually conducted?--Screwball23 ^talk 18:03, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

If a trainer ever finds that you were a backyarder the chances of them training you is slim. At least in teh Uk and most of teh south in the USA. darkie

Don't believe that. There are few trainers in the US who would turn down anyone in shape who can pay. The big problem ex-backyard guys have is that training for the real thing is a whole lot different and usually much less fun.

Backyard Wrestling: My Point of View

I've written several stories and story lines about a fictional group of kids who participate in a backyard wrestling environment. This small town raised group of kids have their own championships, tournaments and even an arena to wrestle in. I've enhanced this fantasy world with the assistance of video games produced by the WWE by creating them and making their moves tell their own stories. As a fan of backyard wrestling (having only participated in three or four matches) this is what fuels my interest in the cult-like sport.

In the years that have passed that I have written these stories, backyard wrestling went from a form of entertainment for small town or big city kids that reached unprecedented heights back to an underground movement only kept alive by a minority of children today.

What I think this wikipedia.org article failed to articulate is the backyard wrestlers point of view, mainly focusing on the dogmatic views of current and former professional wrestlers and the concerns that they have. Little was focused on the wrestlers themselves, or that backyard wrestling has a longer history beyond the late 1990's (dating back to at least the early 80's, although not considered clubs but more or less kids just bouncing around on trampolines). Also, it should be noted that backyard wrestling is a reflection of the times that real pro-wrestling goes through. In the late 1990's, ECW's reach to popularity was because of its revolutionary style involving great use of weapons and the fact that it was stylized around a reality based wrestling show. Backyard wrestlers imitated this on matresses and occasionaly real wrestling rings in matches spanning from the TLC to the barefoot thumbtak/mousetrap matches, for championship belts either crudely constructed out of cardboard or professionally made by companies found on the internet.

Nowaday's as the hardcore phase has passed, WWE and other promotions like ROH have encouraged and reintroduced a "safer, technical style" used primarily by the likes of Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero (RIP) and other legends like Ted DiBiase and Bret Hart. These are traditional moves like armbars, headlock takeovers, and overhead wristlocks. Whilst it's popularity has faded (probably due to crap movie releases like Backyard Dogs), rest assured that it will change from "hardcore fanatics" to "technical wonders" despite the dangers of performing said moves are still there. It's just how it's done.

MTV Generation

I believe that Backyard wrestling best reflects either Generation Y or the MTV Generation. It came before the iPod, but did have many of the same technologically-advanced communication and internet-related media. Many of the backyard wrestling feds did form websites and promoted their interest in wrestling in online forums and blogs, but still, a great many of them were inspired chiefly by television and did not pursue other technology in their expression.

Unfortunately, I cannot judge the backyard wrestlers from the "craze" of the late 1990s and because it is now 2006. Backyard wrestling as a whole still continues, albeit to a far more restricted and less popular status, and does not necessarily reflect one generation anymore. However, it was in higher popularity then than now, making it more important to those of the MTV Generation than future generations.--Screwball23 ^talk 21:23, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Links?

I think that the link given as an example of a backyard wrestling site is unnecessary and probably just advertising... ViperBite 21:47, 5 July 2006 (UTC) Well when I saw the links, I deleted them because yes, it is advertisment, though I did add a link to a backyard wrestling alliance due to the amount of federations listed on it. Im not sure if it was the greatest move, so feel free to delete it.Ecwnet 07:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Lionel Tate

I dont think there is any reason to list Lionel Tate as see also, i see the link between the emulation of wrestling, but he wasnt wrestling under any BYW federation, and his "opponent" or the young girl in this case was not of "consenting age". Removing Link Kennykane 05:02, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

These are all reasonable technicalities, but do not forget that BYW is usually performed unsupervised, by younger children, who would not generally be considered of "consenting age" for many other activities, including sports entertainment. BYW is usually not done within a federation, and, in fact, Lionel Tate often represents the most common form of backyard wrestling. Those who form "feds" and attempt to create independent promotions are the minority of backyarders.

I added Lionel Tate primarily because of how important and how powerful his punishment brought down professional wrestling. Don't forget how many news programs stressed his crime and denounced BYW as the cause of such abuse.--Screwball23 ^talk 20:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

i see your point. -Kennykane 02:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Disagreed. This page is about Backyard Wrestling, which, as I see it, is Professional Wrestling done by non-professionals as a hobby. "BYW is usually not done within a federation, and, in fact, Lionel Tate often represents the most common form of backyard wrestling." Do you actually take part in Backyard Wrestling, or even know ANYTHING about it? I feel like I know quite a lot about it, and the youngest it gets in Backyard Wrestling is around 15. And almost always done as part of a "fed". Liionel Tate was nothing close to Backyard Wrestling. it was murder via wrestling moves. -Alex 00:38, 8 September 2006

I agree with Alex. (I know a lot about BYW also.) June-gloom 22:42, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Another view

I want to talk about this issue - from the point of view of what (in my personal opinion) constitutes backyard wrestling;

• Does not use a proper ring
• Does not use a proper venue
• No commitment to the craft of professional wrestling
• No regard for personal safety or safety of others

Now having been in the presence of a proper trainer training wrestlers I know how important the craft is. One of the most important factors in pro wrestling is the "fantasy" aspect. Backyard wrestling has a history of throwing this in the bin - going for too much realism and not engaging in proper selling. This is an art form of sorts. Ric Flair has called Mick Foley a glorified stuntman - and the art of pro wrestling is at the core of that remark. Mick himself has admitted that he's not a classic mat wrestler. But that's why there is so much angst against backyard wrestling - hence the inevitable fact that anything said about backyard wrestling is going to have a slant. One way or the other. The safety factor comes with the art as well - like how to breakfall which is basic pro training. You can do a major injury to your back or neck otherwise.

There are still issues with backyard wrestling in Australia. In the effort to maintain a certain standard, the industry in the city of Adelaide really goes to town on wrestlers who have not trained with the recognised trainers. This is what creates backyard wrestling to begin with - a mentality like "our way or the highway". It's like a red rag to a bull. The result is that anyone who goes against the grain is labelled backyard - even if they are trying to do the right thing, especially in the face of this sort of BS.

I personally think that backyard wrestling needs to be reeled in. It has a negative effect on the pros. But the pros have to ease up and be more open than they have been. It seems to be happening in places, but there is still a lot of politics affecting the true talents - and I know of one very pertinent example of this in Adelaide!

Any thoughts on this? Curse of Fenric 13:07, 16 September 2006 (UTC)