Talk:Education in Finland: Difference between revisions

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Polytechnic->University of Applied Sciences Title change

Following finnish ARENE's (national board of ammattikorkeakoulu-rectors) outline recommendation dated December 2005, as of January 1st 2006 the whole Finnish Ammattikorkeakoulu -regime unified their international names from several different versions to new "University of Applied Sciences".

This follows eg. german Fachhochschules (similar to which, the Bologna Process has enabled Masters degree -programmes in addition to Bachelors - in Finland the process has been a bit slower though), which already used this name in their international operations. * Ras 00:21, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ref: Jyväskylä University of Applied Sciences, Powerpoint presentation

The ARENE does not have the standing to make this change and has been publicly rebuked by the Minister of Education Antti Kalliomäki. The Ministry of Education still urges on using word polytechnic and most Finnish polytechnics have complied. (See Helsinki polytechnic Stadia. I reverted this back to use word polytechnic.--MPorciusCato 22:13, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Old problem

The problem below was that the article was a carbon copy of a text about the Swedish system. It no longer is.

"An insinööri (amk) (3 y) knows how to weld, but many employers do not place them in leading positions. A diplomi-insinööri (5+ y) may not know welding, but he can be promoted." This and a couple of other parts could do with a little more explanation: is an insinööri an engineer? Is a diplomi a diploma or a degree? Also "primary schooling" usually lasts until age 10, not 16. Is this the usual translation of the Finnish word? And can anyone add anything about the LUMA programme or more about the PISA study results here? Saintswithin 22:14, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The insinööri/diplomi-insinööri difference is the best example for demonstrating how the university degrees are not interchangeable to vocational degrees. The insinööris I've met tend to have a tenous grasp of the theoretical background of their work, whereas I as a DI student usually couldn't make a single weld. It's true that the name "diplomi-insinööri" is confusing, because it suggests that these degrees are in different levels in the same system. They're not. There's something at diplomi-insinööri, for now.

The English terms used usually vary wildly, because the Finnish system doesn't divide into "primary", "lower secondary", and "upper secondary" schools like the English system. Rather, the terms I've used are contrasted primary — secondary — tertiary, corresponding to the Finnish expressions "first, second, and third-level education". Primary school is such which is mandatory to all and pupils go to their local schools, right? And secondary education is chosen by the student, right? This makes these terms appropriate, even if the timesharing doesn't correspond one-to-one with the English system. --Vuo 14:32, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The article could also do with information about the education system in Finland is funded -- are university places publically funded, based on student loans, etc. etc. Rls 16:48, 2005 Jan 29 (UTC)

English terms?

The official terms used by the Finnish Ministry of Education for peruskoulu and lukio are 'comprehensive school' and 'upper secondary school' respectively. At the moment, there is no official division between the first and second stages of comprehensive school - 'yläaste' and 'ala-aste' as they used to be called - and instead the whole of the nine-year basic compulsory education carries the term 'comprehensive school' (or peruskoulu). The practice with these terms in this article, however, is something completely different, and potentially misleading... - ulayiti 22:20, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

- I think the terms should be changed to match with terms used in http://virtual.finland.fi/netcomm/news/showarticle.asp?intNWSAID=41557. Virtual Finland website is produced by Ministery of Foreign Affairs as it shown at bottom of the page. I think this mismatch with terms might be misleading (as stated by Ulayiti) and cause some misunderstandings.

- The term used here, "University of Applied Science" is as far as I know, not currently accepted in general use as an english translation for AMK, but a term proposed by staff of the polytechnics. Use of this term is opposed by most universities, who have criticized the proposition for being an attempt to gain higher status using a name easily mistaken for an actual university. The translation used this far has been "polytechnic".

Finnish National Board of Education: "The Finnish education system comprises two parallel sectors: universities and polytechnics. Universities are characterised by scientific research and the highest education based thereon. Polytechnics are oriented towards working life and base their operations on the high vocational skill requirements set by it."

I checked the site of the ministry of education and the few of the largest polytechnics - none of these either use the UoAS translation suggested, so I changed all references to "University of Applied Science" to "polytechnic" and added note, that such an change of name has been suggested. If the suggestion at later time becomes accepted we should of course then switch to that name. 194.157.87.200 20:58, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- Double checked this thing... some polytechnics actually have switched to this name already. I'm reverting that edit I did. 194.157.87.200 21:39, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They have, but the official name is still the polytechnic, which has been authorized by the Ministry of Education. I made a revert back to polytechnic.--MPorciusCato 22:13, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Education infobox

I created a template, Template:Education infobox which can give a quick at a glance demographics table for education articles. See its implementation at Education in the United States and feel free to help improve the template.--naryathegreat | (talk) 01:00, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Free school dinners

I think you guys should mention the fact that Finnish government provides free school dinner for all pupils in Finland........

No, it doesn't. The Finnish government provides dinners only for soldiers, prisoners and other full-time dependants of the state of Finland. --Vuo 20:45, 11 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WELL, at least you should mention the fact that there ARE FREE school dinners in FINland!!!!

Unfortunately regular municipal schools don't serve dinners, but lunches. I'm uncertain about the situation in boarding school -type institutions. --Vuo 14:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There are very few boarding school -type institutions on secondary and primary levels. Theoretically, if the pupil in comprehensive school has the nearest school so far away from his/her home that the journey takes more than two hours in a direction, the municipality (or other school organizer) is required to organize a dormitory for the school. In such a dormitory, the pupil has the right for free board. In practice, there are no such institutions at the present AFAIK. This meal should cover one third of the daily need for nutrients. In some vocational schools giving education in acriculture and forestry, the students have a right to free board in their dormitories, as these schools are usually located somewhat distant from population centers. (This is stated in the law on vocational education by referring to earlier legislation, making the actual meaning of the law a little unclear.) However, all students in secondary education and all comprehensive school pupils have a right for a free daily school meal (usually served at lunch time). --MPorciusCato 07:28, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In British English school dinner often means school lunch, I think it's fairly safe assume that this is what the first writer meant. I feel this would be relevant to add in the article. Also the above bit about boarding schools (or lack of them), with the dinner bits stripped out would suit the article, non?--Lauranen 23:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's already in the article. In the introduction. --Vuo 07:42, 4 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So it is, my apologies. Nothing about boarding though. --Lauranen 08:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 59: / Line 59: @@
 ::::*In British English ''school dinner'' often means ''school lunch'', I think it's fairly safe assume that this is what the first writer meant. I feel this would be relevant to add in the article. Also the above bit about boarding schools (or lack of them), with the dinner bits stripped out would suit the article, ''non''?--[[User:Lauranen|Lauranen]] 23:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 :::::It's already in the article. In the introduction. --[[User:Vuo|Vuo]] 07:42, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
+::::::So it is, my apologies. Nothing about boarding though. --[[User:Lauranen|Lauranen]] 08:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)