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Sahaja Yoga International

Donot delete this article.Sahaja yoga isthe only organization in the world through which you can get your self- realization and feel vibrations.It is widely prcaticed in many countries and lot of people are interested in it. Non-notable cult, does not pass WP:CORP. Fewer than 1000 Google hits, and no references from credible sources. --NovaSTL 06:57, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Google search for "Sahaja Yoga International": 82,800 hits. [1] Sfacets 03:53, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not delete this useful piece on a movement for inner spiritual growth and liberation that has many thousands of adherents from all walks of life. This is not some barmy cult that grabs money from the unsuspecting and gullible seekers. It is a path that works and gives great joy and peaceful direction to life, and if there are those who have suffered because they were asked kindly to leave the movement, because they had done something extremely unkind or not in keeping with normal decent behaviour, want this page removed it would be a great shame and a very backward step. We accept anybody who asks for their self-realisation, and so there will always be discontented people who could not 'make it'.Very few indeed have been asked to leave or have left because they were unsatisfied. Why should this deprive others of the opportunity to experience the possibilities of self realisation? I have followed this wonderful path for 27 years and my life has been miraculously blessed, and those of my wife and children too. Kingsley Flint* sahaja yoga is NOT a cult....there are thousands of peoples who are physically, mentally, emotionally and even spritually benefited by sahaja yoga... their health is improved, their way of thinking is changed(positive changes)..so what else you want from sahaja...if you want to make money out of it..sorry to say we are non-profit orgainzation...adeshjoshi..

those who dont want to believe, follow sahaja..its ok..no arguments...but they are not supposed to talk against sahaja without any reasons... !!! adeshjoshi...
Sahaja Yoga is NOT a cult --Sahajhist 17:39, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of what it is, is it notable? -Will Beback 07:43, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to Dr. Michael Langone, editor of Cultic Studies Journal, Sahaja Yoga is a cult, it is preoccupied with money, the group has an "us v. them" mentality, and techniques are used and encouraged to suppress doubt about the group or its members. [2] (see the section on "Issues and Controversies). My own concern is that many of these mis-information techniques seem to be being used on Wikipedia, as members of this group appear to be creating articles here to promote the group and its activities. --NovaSTL 23:26, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. MER-C 08:00, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete religioncruft. Danny Lilithborne 08:10, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Seems to be a small religious movement/cult that practises this. It fails WP:CORP and without reliable sources of information this article will forever be a conflict of interest/spam/POV magnet. The above comment by Sahajhist is testament to this. -- IslaySolomon 09:44, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect To the above-mentioned link. Michael Billington (talk • contribs) 11:19, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sahaja Yoga is NOT a cult and is merely brandeed one by memebrs who have been asked to leave or people who have not expeirinced sahaja yoga — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marathigt (talk • contribs)
Keep or move to Vishwa Nirmala Dharma (currently a redirect). -- The guru (and I think founder) of the organisation, Nirmala Srivastava has had significant press coverage, ~~either keep or merge into Nirmala Srivastava article~~ -- Paul foord 13:08, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Note the alternative name Vishwa Nirmala Dharma (currently a redirect) has "about 15,200" hits.
Keep or merge to Sahaja Yoga. As far as I know the practice and the organization are closely related and the term "Sahaja Yoga" (306,000 ghits) may refer to either or both. --KFP (talk | contribs) 14:59, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Sahaja Yoga practicioners are counted in their hundreds of thousands. You can go anywhere in India and people will know about it. Non-notable? It has appeared in many leading newspapers. Sahaja Yoga international differs from Sahaja Yoga in that it is a registered NGO whereas Sahaja Yoga is a form of meditation. Nirmala Srivastava has had considerable press coverage both because of the NGO side of SY as well as the spiritual/meditational. Sahaja Yoga is a registered organisation and NGO in quite a few countries. Calling a spiritual practice a cult is POV. And besides, if you consider SY a cult (as is your right) - it shouldn't be a reason for exclusion. note:I strongly suspect bias in this AFD proposal - why is User:NovaSTL, a user who signed up a day ago nominating an article for deletion? [[3]] Sfacets 20:27, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Nope, not a biased nom. I'd never heard of this organization until yesterday when I was on newpage patrol, and ran across Vishwa Nirmal Prem Ashram, which appeared to be spam, so I tagged it with {{db-spam}}. The tag was removed with a rude comment, so I proceeded to a prod, which was also removed [4], so the next step was AfD. Rather than submitting just that article though, I decided to proceed to the "root" article, which is this one, which also appears (in my opinion) to be spam. Now let me be clear that the practice of Sahaja Yoga appears notable, but the organization known as "Sahaja Yoga International" does not. This article also appears to be a hub for multiple other non-notable entities, such as Vishwa Nirmal Prem Ashram and International Sahaja Public School, other spam articles (go read it, you'll see what I mean). These all appear to have been created in an ongoing campaign to use Wikipedia to create articles on these peripheral activities, even though they are not independently notable. The articles should therefore either be deleted, or merged into the article about Sahaja Yoga. --NovaSTL 23:40, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I fail to see how a religious organisation with an attached hospital and ICSE school and with a notable founder is less notable than, say, the average parish church that gets on, or, for example, the Federation of Damanhur. Consider also the Brahma Kumaris. Unless someone can point this out, consider this a vote to keep.Hornplease 01:16, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- The Federation of Damanhur has been the subject of two books that look to be credible sources. The Brahma Kumaris article also has an extensive bibliography. However, the SYI article has no sources except its own websites, and other non-credible sources. --NovaSTL 03:17, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - From the comments presented here, and considering the articles already present on various other faith-based spiritual movements, I cannot detect an actual problem with having this separate Wikipedia entry, nor any separate entry pertaining to Sahaja Yoga for that matter. To enable citing sources, particulars for Wiki precedents and/or Wiki accepted definitions and criteria for ‘reputable sources of information’ and ‘credible sources’ are required as these relate to the highly personal subject of spirituality (spirituality is subjective by nature). The comment referencing ‘religioncruft’ infers unfamiliarity with the subject, and as for ‘non-notable,’ Sahaja Yoga International is well-known in many circles of society, Sahaja Yoga being unique, therefore completely differentiated from every other sort of meditation technique. Generally speaking, the society of Sahaja Yoga International is a branch of the not-for-profit grass-roots, non-hierarchical Sahaja Yoga movement carrying out many international activities such as NGOs, charitable projects, non-commercial educational and social community services, duly registered active SY societies and SY charities around the world, and significant documented medical research on the many varied and widely recognized benefits of the Sahaja Yoga technique. As such, it should not be considered for deletion. Ewarrior21 03:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Above post is the first-ever comment by Ewarrior21 (talk · contribs), who has no other edits. --NovaSTL 03:36, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NovaSTL- How many edits have you made on wikipedia in the last two days since you signed up? You should know that according to Wikipedia:Spam an NGO-related, not-for-profit establishment doesn't qualify as spam, as you marked it. (Vishwa Nirmal Prem Ashram). According to your comments above this afd does in fact seem to be a reaction to other contributor's edits, and therefore biased. Mentions of SYI as an NGO appear frequently in media, such as the Times of India, the Indian Express, there is medical research documentation done in connection with the hospital in Mumbai... there are plenty of sources. Feel free to add htem to the article. Sfacets 04:55, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. There may be sources available, but we are not free to add them, as some users appear to be exerting ownership of the articles.[5][6][7][8][9][10] -Will Beback 21:18, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe NovaSTL was asking for 'Valid Sources' - something that wasn't established in this case. See Talk:Sahaja Yoga Sfacets 03:50, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that you are unaware of the recent additions to WP:CSD concerning what is defined as spam. For more information, please read: Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2006-10-02/More CSD. In any case, if you believe that there are references which assert this topic's notability, by all means, please add them to the article. Without such sources, I stand by my opinion that this article does not make an adequate case for the notability of its subject, but instead is written in a self-promotional manner, and is almost certainly in violation of WP:AUTO (please note that the primary editor on the Sahaja Yoga International article is Sahajhist (talk · contribs), who is obviously associated with the topic).

Instead of attacking me, I think that your energy would be better spent on addressing the obvious WP:AUTO problems with this article and the related self-promotional sub-articles, instead of fighting the attempts to request citations, as you have been doing in the past . For example, when someone added a {{fact}} tag, and you removed it, saying "not needed here."[11] --NovaSTL 06:17, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't attacking you, I was remarking on the fact that either you are a sockpuppet or a newly signed up member, and have already placed an afd. A fact you seem to be avoiding. How is removing 1 (one!) request for citation "fighting the attempts to request citations"? As I have been doing in the past? What, with my one tag removal? The tag in question wasn't required there (in my opinion) since the sentence was self-explanatory. The removal wasn't contested. But why am I justifying my old edits to you? according to the link you posted above: "Pages that exist only to promote a company, person, product, service or group." The template {{Db-spam}} can be used on pages that fit the definition". In what way do you feel an NGO project that affects hundreds of people and is well know in that part of India exists only to promote itself? Also note that it is a stub, having been created 3 days ago, so sources haven't even had the time to be included. Sfacets 06:43, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

First, your removal of that {{fact}} tag most definitely was contested, with the very next edit [12], followed by back and forth reverts, and finally the questionable statement's eventual removal. Next: My own account's status can be clearly determined by taking a moment to read my userpage. As is stated there, the primary purpose of this account is new page patrolling, as part of which I have nominated several articles for deletion, usually without much controversy (for example, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Corki's Corner). For other pages I have nominated for deletion, via WP:CSD, Prod, and AfD, you and anyone else are welcome to review my contribution history to see that I have not been specifically targeting this article. I am most definitely not a sockpuppet of anyone else involved in this debate, and I have no bias for or against articles about yoga. I do, however, have a bias against poorly-sourced self-promotional articles. If you truly believe that this subject is notable enough for its own Wikipedia article, then, per WP:V, please provide sources which prove this. It's not about saying that something is well-known in India -- you have to provide sources which prove this. Please review WP:CORP. --NovaSTL 08:07, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Though there seem to be several new references that have been added to the article, it seems that most of them are either to personal/promotional websites, or are to sources that talk about the practice of Sahaja Yoga itself, but are not about the actual "SYI" organization. As such, I believe this re-emphasizes the fact that SYI is not independently notable, and that this article should be merged into the article on Sahaja Yoga. --NovaSTL 22:44, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have added more sources on the VND/SYI Organisation, looking up more references for Organisational status in various countries. Sfacets 03:50, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

=> Donot delete this as I know Wikipedia is a open site for giving useful information to all. This page seems to be correct and useful in all regards as far as I know. I know many of my friends and they all have benefitted from this simple meditation technique. The most important point I have noticed is that they do not charge you a single pie. What I feel personally is that the persons who are asking for deleting are those who are at least aware of Sahajyoga. It is something like this that you go to Swimming Pool and by someone's mistake if one drowns then you say close all swimming pools. They might have tried to use it for their personal needs or some ego hassles with some local Sahajayoga persons. So I feel it is just some human reaction which seems to be very natural. But Sahajyoga as a whole as i have seen is quite beneficial, so no point in delting it. Yes you can verify the facts from independent agencies. I know thay have an NGO for Destitute Women in India and one Hospital also in Mumbai. So seems to be good organization. - Rajesh

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 ===[[Sahaja Yoga International]]===
+Donot delete this article.Sahaja yoga isthe only organization in the world through which you can get your self- realization and feel vibrations.It is widely prcaticed in many countries and lot of people are interested in it.
 Non-notable cult, does not pass [[WP:CORP]]. Fewer than 1000 Google hits, and no references from credible sources. --[[User:NovaSTL|NovaSTL]] 06:57, 14 October 2006 (UTC)