Talk:Shuckin' and jivin': Difference between revisions

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This article was nominated for deletion on 30 August 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

Any additional information about the usage and history of this term is greatly appreciated. Zagalejo 03:25, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

2007-02-9 Automated pywikipediabot message

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10/25/2012 OMG Sarah Palin

Given people are today (e.g. ThinkProgress) attempting to connect Sarah Palin's use of the term with Racism, doesn't it diminish Wikipedia to have people edit this entry (today) to add such accusations? I'm glad the (current) update has been cleared of those recent connections. If the idea was actually connected in the minds of people I would assume whoever created the page would have mentioned that prior to the current outrage. If, on the other hand, attempts are being made to build a stronger association between "shuck and jive" and racism using Wikipedia to assert that connection, this seems contrary to Wikipedia's purposes (whether or not there are arguable historical connections). 128.95.12.156 (talk) 17:12, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The phrase is associated with behaviour of black people -- it is inherent in the historical origin(s) and usage. While not necessarily malicious, it is certainly is a peculiar choice of words, a practically race-specific sort of phrase. Her lack of racism can only be reasoned by concluding that she has utter ignorance of the historical association of the term with black people. It is a weird idiom to use in any case, and reminds me of when I was a kid and people would talk about the Stepin Fetchit character of the movies as an example of the subservient roles of black people and the kinds of behaviours and mannerisms the larger society associated with black people. It is akin to saying he was giving us "jive talk" or some other such thing. It's really, really clumsy rhetoric at best given the USA's slave and civil rights history, and still virulent racism that I had no idea the extent of until the internet came along. Some guy sent some emails to my dad with pictures of Obama as a lawn jockey on the White House lawn, and another with the lawn full of watermelons, bullshit like that. Enough already. 207.189.226.165 (talk) 20:40, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Except that, as the article describes the term, it refers to something black people historically did as a defense against oppression, and is therefore, if anything, racist against white people. Like "ebonics."

Discussion of "covert racism" separate from "shuckin' and jivin'"

The last paragraph of the page seems to discuss sociologists' opinion towards "covert racism" that is beyond the scope of this article, which specifically refers to the use of the phrase "shuckin' and jivin'". Unless these sources refer to that term, they are not relevant to this article and should not be included. - Maximusveritas (talk)

@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
 Given people are today (e.g. ThinkProgress) attempting to connect Sarah Palin's use of the term with Racism, doesn't it diminish Wikipedia to have people edit this entry (today) to add such accusations? I'm glad the (current) update has been cleared of those recent connections. If the idea was actually connected in the minds of people I would assume whoever created the page would have mentioned that prior to the current outrage. If, on the other hand, attempts are being made to build a stronger association between "shuck and jive" and racism using Wikipedia to assert that connection, this seems contrary to Wikipedia's purposes (whether or not there are arguable historical connections).
 [[Special:Contributions/128.95.12.156|128.95.12.156]] ([[User talk:128.95.12.156|talk]]) 17:12, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
-::The phrase is associated with behaviour of black people -- it is inherent in the historical origin(s) and usage.  While not necessarily malicious, it is certainly is a peculiar choice of words, a practically race-specific sort of phrase.  Her lack of racism can only be reasoned by concluding that she has utter ignorance of the historical association of the term with black people.  It is a weird idiom to use in any case, and reminds me of when I was a kid and people would talk about the Stepin Fetchit character of the movies as an example of the subservient roles of black people and the kinds of behaviours and mannerisms the larger society associated with black people.  It is akin to saying he was giving us "jive talk" or some other such thing.  It's really, really clumsy rhetoric at best given the USA's slave and civil rights history, and still virulent racism that I had no idea the extent of until the internet came along.  Some guy sent some emails to my dad with pictures of Obama as a lawn jockey on the White House lawn, and another with the lawn full of watermelons, bullshit like that.   Enough already.  [[Special:Contributions/207.189.226.165|207.189.226.165]] ([[User talk:207.189.226.165|talk]]) 20:40, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
+:The phrase is associated with behaviour of black people -- it is inherent in the historical origin(s) and usage.  While not necessarily malicious, it is certainly is a peculiar choice of words, a practically race-specific sort of phrase.  Her lack of racism can only be reasoned by concluding that she has utter ignorance of the historical association of the term with black people.  It is a weird idiom to use in any case, and reminds me of when I was a kid and people would talk about the Stepin Fetchit character of the movies as an example of the subservient roles of black people and the kinds of behaviours and mannerisms the larger society associated with black people.  It is akin to saying he was giving us "jive talk" or some other such thing.  It's really, really clumsy rhetoric at best given the USA's slave and civil rights history, and still virulent racism that I had no idea the extent of until the internet came along.  Some guy sent some emails to my dad with pictures of Obama as a lawn jockey on the White House lawn, and another with the lawn full of watermelons, bullshit like that.   Enough already.  [[Special:Contributions/207.189.226.165|207.189.226.165]] ([[User talk:207.189.226.165|talk]]) 20:40, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
 ::Except that, as the article describes the term, it refers to something black people historically did as a defense against oppression, and is therefore, if anything, racist against white people. Like "ebonics."