Talk:Black Annis

Do we have any citation for the earliest known version of the Annis legend?

Parts that should probably be removed or greatly changed.

that the origin can be found in Celtic mythology, based on Danu (or Anu), wife of the Celtic God Llud"

That part is nonesense. Danu and Llud are not even from the same "Celtic" mythologies; Danu is from Gaelic mythology whereas Llud is from Brythonic folklore. Llud may be related to the Irish Nuada (and British Nodens, possibly a borrowing from the Gaels of Nuada) but even then Nuada is not the spouse of Danu.

The section about the "Yellow Muilearteach" is taken out of context. McKenzie points out not only that there are a few differences between Black Annis and the Muilerteach but also claims that the Indic Kali resembles Black Annis more and has a list of other such deities with what he views as similarities. I wonder why the editor didn't add any of that info? Hmm... Incidently the page numbers are wrong and the section actually starts around page 111.

It also says "the wearing of the victims' skins a local addition to the myth." which is not at all what McKenzie claims, hence he connects that with other "mother goddesses" such as the aforementioned Kali. He also never makes the claim that Black Annis is from any of these supernatural beings but instead from an ancestor of them all. In fact the whole section of the book is about a "primordial mother goddess" and he puts "Black Annis of England and Black Kali of India" (due in part to the wearing of human flesh by both beings). He also mentions Neith, Demeter and Labartu amongst others.

Others have identified her with the Celtic legend of Cailleach Bheare.[6] The origin of the legend may go back to the mother-goddess of ancient Europe, who was remembered as a devourer of children.[3]

No that is just McKenzie again. His connecting the Black Annic character to two different Celtic deities does not count as other "scholars" connecting her to different Celtic deities. It is again part of McKenzies "primordial mother goddess" theories in his book. Turner just references it.

I find these sections slightly suspect: It is thought that offerings of children may have been made to the goddess that inspired the legend in the archaeological Hunting Period, the oak tree at the cave's entrance also a common site of local meetings.[3]

Annis was also represented in cat form and the legend led to a local ritual in early spring, when a dead cat would be dragged before a pack of hounds in front of her bower, to celebrate the end of winter.[6]

But I cannot track down a copy of the book at the moment so I cannot comment. The first seems not completely unlikely. But the latter information there does not seem to fit with the historical evidence (as opposed to the Neo-Pagan/Wiccan sources which frankly seem to make most of the "evidence" up out of chance similarities. Modern myth-making in action?). Sigurd Dragon Slayer (talk) 12:54, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Possible historical origins

I wonder if the grotesque appearance of Annis, which Hutton ascribes to post-Reformation antipathy to anchorites, may instead be because she may have become a leper herself? With severe disfigurement and regarded as 'unclean', that may be why she became a figure of fear. Silverwhistle (talk) 09:26, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Agnes Dunbar??

Sorry because I'm an utter newb at scottish history but is there a reason why Black Agnes isn't also associated with this? Wouldn't the Annis thing have been connected to her due to her strong resistance to the seige of her castle in Dunbar, possibly scaring the enemy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes,_Countess_of_Dunbar