Talk:Jim Laker/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Whiteguru (talk · contribs) 08:00, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Starts Good Article Review Page. Hopefully we will start the review shortly. Thank you --Whiteguru (talk) 08:00, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Whiteguru, and thank you for taking on this review. Please let me know when any questions arise and I'll do my best to help. All the best and stay safe. Regards, No Great Shaker (talk) 10:15, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Observations

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

a (prose, spelling, and grammar):

b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

Early life: Background, Childhood, Salts School is a bit over done and focuses on the challenges his mother faced. Admittedly, his mother was the driving force for him to excel at cricket.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

a (reference section):

b (citations to reliable sources):

c (OR):

d (copyvio and plagiarism):

Hill seems to be cited exclusively in the first section; this section relies exclusively on one source. Providing sources for an unreferenced section appears to lose the opportunity to rewrite and provide a much tighter and more precise coverage.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

a (major aspects):

b (focused):

Lead is well scribed; Infobox is informative;
Statistical summary is repetitive.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

Fair representation without bias:

The five sections after the lede are heavily populated with biographical material.
It is difficult to comprehend why some much early biographical material is included.

5. It is stable.

No edit wars, etc.:

Page created 9 July 2003
Page has 471 edits by 169 editors
Majority of edits (163) come in January/February 2021
90 day page views are 9,956 views with an average of 109 views per day.
There is a history of reverting changes; however this is accepted as suitable, being an article about a celebrated cricketer;
The reverts don't resemble edit-warring, rather, it is cricket fans getting the facts right.

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales):

b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

File:Laker at Old Trafford.jpg = Copyright photo; qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law

Overall:

I have reservations about the length of the Early Years section.

I have checked 12 articles given on List of England Test cricketers in the post war years up to 1959. If we look at Billy Griffith, George Emmett, George Mann (cricketer), Arthur McIntyre (cricketer, born 1918), Peter May (cricketer), these are quite short pages for members of the England Team. A bit more length comes with Gilbert Parkhouse, Ray Illingworth, Ted Dexter, Frank Tyson with Brian Close at the longer end of these accounts. Larger pages with more material come with Fred Trueman (another bowler and broadcaster), Brian Statham who has an account of each season he participated in.

I am recommending that the first part of the article Early life and development as a cricketer to 1946 be compressed into one paragraph for each heading, and drop the headings. At present, this page resembles a personal biography based on one source alone, for this first section. Having read the talk page, I can understand that there was significant work put into this section, cleaning someone else's work from many years ago. However, it should have been edited and cut back at that time. As a guide, you may wish to glance over the pages listed above. I am trying to be fair here and make suggestions for improvement of this article. There is too much personal biography. Yes, his mother was most instrumental in making a first-class cricketer out of him and setting his life out of obscurity and poverty. However, the focus should be his activities as a cricketer. The remainder of the article is fine.

No Great Shaker, I am happy to engage in a conversation about these recommendations. --Whiteguru (talk) 11:37, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Response

Hello again, Whiteguru, and thanks for a very comprehensive review. I agree with you about the early life coverage. When I found the article, it was written like a domestic drama with a cliffhanger at the end of his army career. I confess I wasn't sure if I should cut it back or just reorganise it all into an objective treatment by merging Laker's development as a cricketer into his upbringing. I chose the latter and one of the main reasons I wanted a review was to get someone else's views on it. Must admit I didn't think to see how articles about his contemporaries are handled. The Trueman and Statham articles are useful here because of their lengths – both have over 10k RPS while Laker has 7k. Whereas Laker has no less than fourteen paragraphs before we reach the one that mentions his first-class debut, Trueman has six and Statham has five. So, yes, I will reduce the coverage of Laker's early life and your suggestion of one paragraph per sub-heading will be a useful technique.

Please leave it with me for the present and I'll let you know when I've made some progress. Thanks again. All the best and stay safe. No Great Shaker (talk) 15:53, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that didn't take as long as I thought it might. I've split the whole early life piece into two sections called "Early life and school years" (to 1939) and "Army service and move to Surrey" (1939 to 1946). This has taken some 800 words out and reduced RPS from 7k to 6.2k. I've focused on his development as a cricketer and said only the necessary minimum about his family, for example why he didn't return to Yorkshire after the war.

Could you please take another look at it when you have time, Whiteguru, and let me know what you think. No rush. Thanks again and all the best. No Great Shaker (talk) 19:04, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your work here, it is a good resolution of matters. The section Army service and move to Surrey while somewhat long in the tooth, directly addresses his cricketing, so we take that as read. --Whiteguru (talk) 07:40, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Passed

Thank you very much, Whiteguru. You've done a comprehensive review which has been a great help in the development of the article. I'll think about trimming the army section a bit more but it was a crucial phase in his career because he probably wouldn't have tried spin bowling at all if he hadn't played on the matting strips in Egypt. My dad was there at the same time and often said what a difference the matting made, in comparison with playing on grass. Actually, the matting would be a good hook for DYK. Thanks again and all the best. No Great Shaker (talk) 10:12, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]