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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by CJGB (talk | contribs) at 02:25, 15 March 2007 (→‎Discussion). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Wikipedia Mediation Cabal
ArticleEthnic Cleansing
Statusopen
Request dateUnknown
Requesting partyUnknown
Parties involvedCJGB, Khoikhoi
Mediator(s)Snowolf

Mediation Case: 2007-03-06 Ethnic Cleansing

Please observe Wikipedia:Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette in disputes. If you submit complaints or insults your edits are likely to be removed by the mediator, any other refactoring of the mediation case by anybody but the mediator is likely to be reverted. If you are not satisfied with the mediation procedure please submit your complaints to Wikipedia talk:Mediation Cabal.


Request Information

Request made by: CJGB (Chris) 06:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Where is the issue taking place?
...In Ethnic Cleansing, with some spillover into Bosniak
Who's involved?
... Me User:CJGB and User:Khoikhoi
What's going on?
... Khoikhoi has been insisting on a unilateral edit to the article. After making a brief defence of his position on 27 February, he has ignored all my attempts to discuss the issue or work out a compromise, and silently reverts my attempts to restore the original position pending a proper discussion. He also reverted a good-faith edit of mine in the Bosniak article without explanation.
The substance of the dispute is over the terms "Bosniak" and "Bosnian Muslim". The consensus version of the article used the formula "Bosniak (Bosnian Muslim)" on first mention and "Bosniak" thereafter. Khoikhoi insists that "Bosnian Muslim" is an offensive term that cannot be used. In my view he misunderstands the actual usage. In fact the phraseology "Bosniak (Bosnian Muslim)" is frequently use by Bosniak groups and human-rights groups concerned with Bosniak issues. Some reference to "Bosnian Muslim" is desirable because it remains the most commonly used term outside Bosniak circles. In additional some groups may see exclusive use of "Bosniak" as indicating a pro-Bosniak bias. (The modern use of "Bosniak" dates to about 1993 and is therefore touchy in some circle. It is worth noting that courts at the international level have generally avoided the term "Bosniak" in order to allay the appearance of bias. Let me stress that I personally use the term "Bosniak", but oppose enforcing exclusive use of it.)
What would you like to change about that?
First, Khoikhoi is obvious violating several Wikipedia policies and should stop. Second, he should give up trying to enforce this particular edit in the Ethnic Cleansing article. If, as he claims, the term "Bosnian Muslim" is regarded as offensive in this context, we can rest assured that someone else will take up the cause sooner or later. If no-one does, it will be a strong indication that the term, as we are using it, is in fact inoffensive.
Would you prefer we work discreetly? If so, how can we reach you?
... Just leave a comment on my page, which I check about once a day.

Mediator response

Compromise offers

This section is for listing and discussing compromise offers.

Discussion

While using the talk page of the article in question to solve a dispute is encouraged to involve a larger audience, feel free to discuss the case below if that is not possible. Other mediators are also encouraged to join in on the discussion as Wikipedia is based on consensus.

Just for information, User:Khoikhoi is continuing to edit-war in Bosniaks, having reverted two anonymous users who attempted to re-instate my original edit. (And, no, they are not sock-puppets.)CJGB (Chris) 05:43, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've contacted the anonymous editor (there turns out to be only one, with a dynamic IP address), encouraging him to contribute to this mediation if he cares to. CJGB (Chris) 06:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is the anon user. I've created an account for the purposes of this case. Here is some info I've posted elsewhere:

Here are some sources that use the term "Bosnian Muslim"

"Bosnian Muslim", it seems, is in no way offensive, and by far the most widespread term used in English. Former Anon 06:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

CJGB's response from Talk:Ethnic_cleansing#Bosniaks:
Unquestionably. As far as I recall (someone can research this if they want) The Guardian is the only important news provider that uses "Bosniak". The major media are not bigoted organizations; if they feel an ethnic term is offensive, they stop using it.
Moreover, the user who originally added the phraseology Khoikhoi is objecting to identifies himself as a Bosniak living in France. CJGB (Chris) 14:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My main point is that the article is located at Bosniaks, not Bosnian Muslims, and if people want to see any alternate names, they can just click on the link. Why does it have to be mentioned there? Khoikhoi 02:51, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your response, Khoikhoi. I'll make a brief reply tonight, when I have a time. CJGB (Chris) 14:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously, there's a case for for making your change, but I don't happen to agree, as I've explained. The primary issue is really process: Why should your view prevail, and why are using disruptive methods to try to make it prevails - editing warring, repeated reversions without discussion, repeat rejection of attempts to discuss? I mean, people get banned for stuff that (granted, probably on a larger scale that anything you've done.) I understand you see yourself as a top-ranking Wikipedia, who's constantly battling crackpots and trolls and other disruptive users. But, you know, though I'm not a particularly active editor, I have (I believe) a solid record of constructive edits in this article, and I don't appreciate being treated as if I were the 16th sockpuppet of some anti-Bosniak bigot. CJGB (Chris) 14:06, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How does this have anything to do with the discussion? Please don't try to personalize the issue. Khoikhoi 15:29, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm trying to understand your motivations, which are quite puzzling to me. I think it has a bearing on the case. If you don't agree, just consider the passage above that I've now bolded, which is obviously and directly relevant. CJGB (Chris) 02:25, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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