Talk:Sengunthar
RESEARCH ARTICLES and INSCRIPTIONS: KAIKOLARS = DEVADASIS/ DEVARADIYARS
The Kaikolars are described in great detail in the following research articles and their identity has been clearly proven as the same terinja-Kaikolar Padai of the Chola empire. There is absolutely no question of any ambiguity. You can only deny in vain. Pathetic.
1. The Erotic Sculptures of India Y. Krishan Artibus Asiae, Vol. 34, No. 4 (1972), pp. 331-343
(proves that kaikolan musicians = devadasis) link 1: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dasi+kaikolan+musician link 2: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0004-3648(1972)34%3A4%3C331%3ATESOI%3E2.0.CO%3B2-2
2. Artisans in Vijayanagar Society, Vijaya Ramaswamy, Indian Economic & Social History Review, Vol. 22, No. 4, 417-444 (1985)
This research article explains the blood relation between the Devadasis and the Kaikolar. ("Devaradiyar (dancing girls who have very close kinship ties with the Kaikkolar
link 1: http://ier.sagepub.com/cgi/content/citation/22/4/417 link 2: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=devaradiyar+who+have+close+kinship Register for free -> http://www.sagepublications.com/sjofreeaccess/
3. Weaver Folk Traditions as a Source of History, Vijaya Ramaswamy, Indian Economic & Social History Review, Vol. 19, No. 1, 47-62 (1982), http://ier.sagepub.com/cgi/content/citation/19/1/47?ck=nck register here for free->http://www.sagepublications.com/sjofreeaccess/
This research article explains in vivid detail, the way the Kaikkolas used their women to enjoy special privileges in the Vijayanagar empire. (Text Quoted from article: "At least one woman in every Kaikkola household was, according to age-old tradition dedicated to the temple as a devaradiyar or devadasi. The devaradiyar enjoyed special privileges in the days of the Vijayanagar empire and were the only women permitted a direct audience with the king".
link2: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=at+least+one+woman+kaikkoli+household+devaradiyar+devadasi
4. Weaver Folk Traditions as a Source of History, Vijaya Ramaswamy, Indian Economic & Social History Review, Vol. 19, No. 1, 47-62 (1982), http://ier.sagepub.com/cgi/content/citation/19/1/47?ck=nck, register here for free->http://www.sagepublications.com/sjofreeaccess/
This research article (along with references to an inscription) describes how a devaradiyar or devadasi won special privileges for the Kaikkolas from the king Deva Raya II (A.D 1433)
5. Some Enquiries into the Condition of Weavers in Medieval South India, Indian Historical Review, Vol. VI, Nos. 1 and 2
6. This article talks in much detail about how women from the Sengundhar/ Kaikola caste get into the sacred prostitution in temples.
"Contending identities: Sacred prostitution and reform in colonial South India Priyadarshini Vijaisri A1, A1 Centre for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS), New Delhi" South Asia: Journal of South Asian Studies Publisher: Routledge, part of the Taylor & Francis Group Issue: Volume 28, Number 3 / December 2005 Pages: 387 - 411
To view the complete article just register, its free. Here are the links :
http://journalsonline.tandf.co.uk/link.asp?id=jv31l27518262711 If you cannot access it then just go to the following page and follow one of the links
Venki Devadiya, should've held your tongue. I'll give you more and then some!!
Mudaliar 23:38, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Kaikolas cannot be classifed by the Aryan Varna caste system
Kaikolars cannot be classified by the Aryan Varna caste system. This is similar to putting a Arab or Jew or African or Chinese into Kshatriya, Vysya, etc. The Aryan Varna caste system is only for Aryans. Kaikolans are tamilians.
Which language group belong to ARYA VARNA CASTE SYSTEM?
Only Sonia Gandhi,not her children is now qualified to be an ARYAN in India and not others.
Pallava are Brahmin
Pallavas are brahmins. They have made many inscriptions claiming that they are are brahmins of Bharadvaja gotra. Hence Pallavas are not considered as tamil kings.
Then what happened to the decendants of the Pallava kings in Tamil Nadu?
Pallavas never claimed as brahmans at the start of their power. Later only some Pallavas left some inscriptions as they belonged to Bharadwaja Gothra.
The early Pallavas belonged to Nanthi gothra. Pallavas used NANTHI (BULL) their emblem. Kaikolans are still belong to NANTHI GOTHRA.
I hope the pius DEVADASI system became a system of only dancing and prostitution after the demise of the PALLAVA empire. 70.49.117.55 04:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Sengunthar CN Annadurai is the founder of DMK
CN Annadurai is the founder of DMK and he is a kaikolan from Kanchipuram. This is a well known fact. ~ Founding a political party never deny a person's ancestry !
The writer must tell the meaning and history of the word KAIKOLAN! ~
Bharathidasan a great poet who supported DMK is a Sengunthar
~ What about the Indian Communists who too do not support CASTE system.? ~
Sengunthars fought against the aryan Varna caste system
Read the works of CN Annadurai and Bharathidasan. Both of them fought against the Aryan Varna caste system.
Joti Basu too fight the Aryan Varna Caste system. 70.49.117.55 04:43, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Notable persons
Why cannot others remember THILLAYADI VALLIYAMMA who was the first dead in the war of mahathma Gandhi in S/Africa?
Kai Kolar still support CONGRESS and not DMK which is the CHILD of the Justice party.
DMK itself was founded by Sengunthar CN Annadurai of Kanchipuram.
Dispute Resolution Survey
Due to the many revert wars going on between User-Mudaliar and other users including myself in this article Sengunthar, following the suggestion of the admin I propose that we conduct a survey among the editors of this article.
In the talk page, please state your opinion of two contending issues.
a. Why is the group Sengunthar being denigrated in this article ? Is it necessary to describe only about the false negative aspects of Kaikolars?
Your opinions should be brief. For example my opinion is:
This article is about Sengunthar created by Sengunthar. The name Kaikolar have been misused by the Isai Vellala group for their upliftment. Now they are properly called Isai Vellala and not Kaikolar. This is similar to many groups being called Reddy or Gounder or Mudaliar. So lets talk only about Sengunthar here. If we want we can always create a new article called Isai Vellalar
Note to User:Mudaliar -- let this be here along with your version of this article so people can understand what the dispute is about.
No sock puppets please. Venki 22:15, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
MUDALI is the caste name of KAI KOLA or SENKUNTHA people. For pride and upliftment VELLALAS and their laborers use MUDALI(YAR) with their names.
In these pages one sided opinions appear and others are deleted always.
Neither MUDALIAR or others are not ready to submit any thing to support their claims for the name MUDALI(YAR).
MUDALI is the direct translation of PALLAVA. If any one who know Sanskrit and Tamil well, agree with my view. VELLALAR never be part of any ARMY in the ancient times. So, the usage of MUDALIYAR by Vellalar is a fake idea for self-promotion.
Kaikolar are originally thevadiyaal. Kooti kudithuthaan you rose in the society. Now you want to cutoff your brethren and other kins saying you have no relation to devadasis. But historians chumma puttu puttu vachirukaanga. Better luck next life.Karikala Cholan 14:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)