Talk:Sengunthar

RESEARCH ARTICLES and INSCRIPTIONS: KAIKOLARS = DEVADASIS/ DEVARADIYARS

The Kaikolars are described in great detail in the following research articles and their identity has been clearly proven as the same terinja-Kaikolar Padai of the Chola empire. There is absolutely no question of any ambiguity. You can only deny in vain. Pathetic.

1. The Erotic Sculptures of India Y. Krishan Artibus Asiae, Vol. 34, No. 4 (1972), pp. 331-343

(proves that kaikolan musicians = devadasis) link 1: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dasi+kaikolan+musician link 2: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0004-3648(1972)34%3A4%3C331%3ATESOI%3E2.0.CO%3B2-2

2. Artisans in Vijayanagar Society, Vijaya Ramaswamy, Indian Economic & Social History Review, Vol. 22, No. 4, 417-444 (1985)

This research article explains the blood relation between the Devadasis and the Kaikolar. ("Devaradiyar (dancing girls who have very close kinship ties with the Kaikkolar

link 1: http://ier.sagepub.com/cgi/content/citation/22/4/417 link 2: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=devaradiyar+who+have+close+kinship Register for free -> http://www.sagepublications.com/sjofreeaccess/

3. Weaver Folk Traditions as a Source of History, Vijaya Ramaswamy, Indian Economic & Social History Review, Vol. 19, No. 1, 47-62 (1982), http://ier.sagepub.com/cgi/content/citation/19/1/47?ck=nck register here for free->http://www.sagepublications.com/sjofreeaccess/

This research article explains in vivid detail, the way the Kaikkolas used their women to enjoy special privileges in the Vijayanagar empire. (Text Quoted from article: "At least one woman in every Kaikkola household was, according to age-old tradition dedicated to the temple as a devaradiyar or devadasi. The devaradiyar enjoyed special privileges in the days of the Vijayanagar empire and were the only women permitted a direct audience with the king".

link2: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=at+least+one+woman+kaikkoli+household+devaradiyar+devadasi

4. Weaver Folk Traditions as a Source of History, Vijaya Ramaswamy, Indian Economic & Social History Review, Vol. 19, No. 1, 47-62 (1982), http://ier.sagepub.com/cgi/content/citation/19/1/47?ck=nck, register here for free->http://www.sagepublications.com/sjofreeaccess/

This research article (along with references to an inscription) describes how a devaradiyar or devadasi won special privileges for the Kaikkolas from the king Deva Raya II (A.D 1433)

link2:http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=devaradiyar+won+special+privileges+for+the+kaikkolas+deva+raya+II

5. Some Enquiries into the Condition of Weavers in Medieval South India, Indian Historical Review, Vol. VI, Nos. 1 and 2

6. This article talks in much detail about how women from the Sengundhar/ Kaikola caste get into the sacred prostitution in temples.

"Contending identities: Sacred prostitution and reform in colonial South India Priyadarshini Vijaisri A1, A1 Centre for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS), New Delhi" South Asia: Journal of South Asian Studies Publisher: Routledge, part of the Taylor & Francis Group Issue: Volume 28, Number 3 / December 2005 Pages: 387 - 411

To view the complete article just register, its free. Here are the links :

http://journalsonline.tandf.co.uk/link.asp?id=jv31l27518262711 If you cannot access it then just go to the following page and follow one of the links

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Contending+identities%3A+Sacred+prostitution+and+reform+in+colonial+South+India

Venki Devadiya, should've held your tongue. I'll give you more and then some!!

Mudaliar 23:38, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Kaikolas cannot be classifed by the Aryan Varna caste system

Kaikolars cannot be classified by the Aryan Varna caste system. This is similar to putting a Arab or Jew or African or Chinese into Kshatriya, Vysya, etc. The Aryan Varna caste system is only for Aryans. Kaikolans are tamilians.

Which language group belong to ARYA VARNA CASTE SYSTEM?

Only Sonia Gandhi,not her children is now qualified to be an ARYAN in India and not others.

Pallava are Brahmin

Pallavas are brahmins. They have made many inscriptions claiming that they are are brahmins of Bharadvaja gotra. Hence Pallavas are not considered as tamil kings.

Then what happened to the decendants of the Pallava kings in Tamil Nadu?

Pallavas never claimed as brahmans at the start of their power. Later only some Pallavas left some inscriptions as they belonged to Bharadwaja Gothra.

The early Pallavas belonged to Nanthi gothra. Pallavas used NANTHI (BULL) their emblem. Kaikolans are still belong to NANTHI GOTHRA.

I hope the pius DEVADASI system became a system of only dancing and prostitution after the demise of the PALLAVA empire. 70.49.117.55 04:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Sengunthar CN Annadurai is the founder of DMK

CN Annadurai is the founder of DMK and he is a kaikolan from Kanchipuram. This is a well known fact. ~ Founding a political party never deny a person's ancestry !

The writer must tell the meaning and history of the word KAIKOLAN! ~

Bharathidasan a great poet who supported DMK is a Sengunthar

~ What about the Indian Communists who too do not support CASTE system.? ~

Sengunthars fought against the aryan Varna caste system

Read the works of CN Annadurai and Bharathidasan. Both of them fought against the Aryan Varna caste system.

Joti Basu too fight the Aryan Varna Caste system. 70.49.117.55 04:43, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Notable persons

Why cannot others remember THILLAYADI VALLIYAMMA who was the first dead in the war of mahathma Gandhi in S/Africa?

Kai Kolar still support CONGRESS and not DMK which is the CHILD of the Justice party.

DMK itself was founded by Sengunthar CN Annadurai of Kanchipuram.

Dispute Resolution Survey

Due to the many revert wars going on between User-Mudaliar and other users including myself in this article Sengunthar, following the suggestion of the admin I propose that we conduct a survey among the editors of this article.

In the talk page, please state your opinion of two contending issues.

a. Why is the group Sengunthar being denigrated in this article ? Is it necessary to describe only about the false negative aspects of Kaikolars?

Your opinions should be brief. For example my opinion is:

This article is about Sengunthar created by Sengunthar. The name Kaikolar have been misused by the Isai Vellala group for their upliftment. Now they are properly called Isai Vellala and not Kaikolar. This is similar to many groups being called Reddy or Gounder or Mudaliar. So lets talk only about Sengunthar here. If we want we can always create a new article called Isai Vellalar

Note to User:Mudaliar -- let this be here along with your version of this article so people can understand what the dispute is about.

No sock puppets please. Venki 22:15, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Sengunthars have been trying to evade detection but have been unsuccessful. The relation between Devadasis and Sengunthars is clearly evident from all the research articles. All the authors have done research before stating these facts so you conducting this false survey is no good. I suggest you take up this issue with the TamilNadu government and personally contact these authors if you think these authors are upto no good. When you cannot accept numerous journal articles by differnet authors who in fact quote different sources then how do you intend to justify this lame survey of yours? Mudaliar 20:27, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

MUDALI is the caste name of KAI KOLA or SENKUNTHA people. For pride and upliftment VELLALAS and their laborers use MUDALI(YAR) with their names.

In these pages one sided opinions appear and others are deleted always.

Neither MUDALIAR or others are not ready to submit any thing to support their claims for the name MUDALI(YAR).

MUDALI is the direct translation of PALLAVA. If any one who know Sanskrit and Tamil well, agree with my view. VELLALAR never be part of any ARMY in the ancient times. So, the usage of MUDALIYAR by Vellalar is a fake idea for self-promotion.

Kaikolar are originally thevadiyaal. Kooti kudithuthaan you rose in the society. Now you want to cutoff your brethren and other kins saying you have no relation to devadasis. But historians chumma puttu puttu vachirukaanga. Better luck next life.Karikala Cholan 14:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your opinion User:Karikala Cholan. Do you think the C N Annadurai, became CM because of your reasoning. If we rose to this position by your reasoning how did you rise to your feudal position other than by sending your wives as concubines to Brahmins and Nayaks and British? After all you are only bastards of non-tamilians and hence were thrown out by the Tamil people out of Tamilnadu!! Cry as loud as you want but you are not coming back. Make sure you add your opinion on TMV and TMSV also!! Your erudite reasonings are always helpful. Let's see how you can make Telugu KKV into Tamil TMSV. Venki 03:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Venki (talk · contribs), nice try: You're now using socket puppets just to create an illusion that its in fact me so that ppl would see you in good light. You can pull all the tricks but these articles are here to stay. The sources each of the authors is quoting is also completley different from one another. Keep it flowing. Mudaliar 04:26, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Karikala Cholan

'If you are TAMIL, tell us the meaning of the word CHOLA!

Further history tells, Vellalas sent their girls to KAI KOLAR homes as DANCING MAIDS. Later the mix of Vellala women and Kaikola males created a new TRIBE which is known as ISAI VELLALAR who uses the VELLLALA caste name PILLAI for centuries. DEVADASIS belongs to RIGHT HAND caste classification along with VELLALA people. WHY?

If the DEVADASIS are KAI KOLA, why do they claim, they are ISAI VELLALAR?

kaikolar ooru thevadiyaalku poranthey thevadiyaa paiyyaa!! Ummmaley kaikolana thevadaiyaaanu ellorukum theriyum da poonda. okkaley athanalathaan isai vellalar nu solraanga.

Can Mudaliyar or other FAKES tell?

Can MUDALIYAR tell a list of the so called VELLALA generals who did the raids in ancient times? Vellalas were the farm laborers during the Pallava and Chola times. Later they became land owners during the British and low caste TELUGU times.A Pallava king known as KADU VETTI means destroyer of forests. Vellalas are the extraction of KALLAN(thieves) caste and employed by Kai Kolars during the time of Pallavas and CHOLAS. Vellalas sent their females to the kai Kola Warriors in order to get favours. That is why now these Vellalas use the caste name of Kai Kolar MUDALI with them

kallanna thievesaaa? hahaa, thevadiyaa koodhi, okkaley, kallan, maravan thaanda kings. dei baadu Un parambaraiye engakitta mandi pottaanga da.

Christian missionaries always eye the people who are well connected to the Hindu temples and publish wrong information about them. Kai Kola warriors were the GUARDIANS of the HINDU temples for centuries and many of them refused conversion. This is another reason for the stories. Vellalas never participated in any war in the ancient times. Later they supported all invaders and got lands. -Ranga-

Hello Mudaliar, why dont u just state your opinion on this proof of yours about TMSV? Why are accusing me of everything under the sun, but not stating your opinion. After all, you started slandering Kaikolar and deleting all evidence of KKV/TMV. Why so rabid then and so silent now? Is TMSV fake? Forget about kaikolar and everything else. A simple question a simple straight answer. before you decided to remove all evidence of KKV, you must have a reason for doing that. Who are KKV/TMV? Who are TMSV?

Simple and easy. The fundamental question is why are you so intent on hiding all info about KKV/TMV? Venki 21:19, 24 March 2007 (UTC)