User talk:Noclador

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I'd like to thank you for your military organization charts! Axeman89 05:57, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Ref section

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. Whenever you wish to add a reference, the easy way is to type <ref>http://www.ThisIsMyReference.com/whatever.htm</ref>

The second part of the trick is adding a new section near the bottom of the article ("See also" is normally placed after the ref. section):

==References== {{reflist}}

That's it really. If you wish to quote books, see e.g. an example at Isted Lion for how I normally do it. And thanks for fixing the talk page :) Valentinian ^{T / C} 21:05, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

PS. Please don't misunderstand me, but please make sure that you stay clear of violating WP:3RR just in case things get ugly on that page. I'd personally never do more than 2 reverts to a page a day, and I wouldn't do more than 1 a day either if I can in any way avoid it. You are a valuable contributor, and I'd hate to see you blocked for edit warring. Regards. Valentinian ^{T / C} 21:15, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the update. And if you need proofreading of geographical names, I'll do my best to be of assistance. Valentinian ^{T / C} 21:51, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and btw, I noticed a typo on Image:Danish Army.png. There is one E too many in the Electronic Warfare Coy. (Fredericia, third column). Valentinian ^{T / C} 21:56, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Argentine Army

Another Link from saorbats.ar.com about the Order of battle of the Argentine Army: http://www.saorbats.com.ar/EA_orbat.htm It is quite complicated and confusing and I don't know how up to date it is, but if you need any help in translating it, I would be glad to help you.

Brazilian Army

An Orbat identical in its appearence to the one of the Argentine Army: http://www.saorbats.com.ar/ORBAT-ExercitoBrasileiro.htm

Uruguayan Army

Although I couldn't find the Army of this nation in your to-do-list, perhaps you are interested in drawing a structure of it, as there is a very actual orbat on the page I already talked to you about: http://www.saorbats.com.ar/ORBAT%20-%20Uruguay%20-%20ENU.htm

Singapore Army

To answer your question on the Singapore Amry page, visit http://www.geocities.com/mindef123/

Re: OrBat graphic

Thanks for making the graphic! I have a few concerns though. First of all, I'm not aware of a prison guard company in the Home Front Command. Do you have more information on it? It seems strange because I mainly know about MP units. Also, I don't believe that the Erez and Taoz Battallions are subordinate to GOC Headquarters (mazi), but it's possible to check this. Thanks again, Ynhockey ^(Talk) 11:45, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

The structure isn't exactly correct though in the image, and actually globalsecurity has it right. As you can see on the globalsecuty page, the page deals with all ground forces (basically, structure of all combat and combat support forces which are not subordinate to the airforce or navy), not the actual Ground Forces Command (mazi), which actually doesn't have many subortinate units. Mazi is covered in the first part of the globalsecurty page, then it lists northern command units, etc. Therefore you cannot say that the northern command and other commands are subordinate to the Ground Forces Command. The IDF structure is actually very different from the US Army (as far as I know the US Army), because it has many commands, Ground Forces Command being just one of them. There are about 20 commands, such as Ground Forces, Airforce, Navy, Southern, Northern, Central, Home Front, Human Resources, Military Intelligence, Logistics Medical and Operations, Planning, etc. You can see this approximate structure in my previous image.

About the prison guard company, I'm fairly sure that it's also not subordinate to the Home Front Command, but I will find out. There is now just one company-level prison guard unit for Palestinian prisoners in the IDF, in Mali, I think that's subordinate to Ground Forces, not entirely sure. Furthermore, there are 2 battalion-level prison guard units for Israeli soldiers as prisoners, that's Prison Four and Prison Six.

-- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 13:51, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Great job on that graphic, as usual! And it seems that it gathered some interest that might lead to improvement, which is a good thing. Russoswiss 02:19, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

IDF_Ground_Forces.png

I'm sorry, but it is full of mistakes...

Ground Forces Command neither above Home Front Command (witch is regional command), nor "Logistics, Medical, and the Centers Directorate". Directoriates should be under Genereral Staff, regional commands (North, Central, Southern, Homefront) should also be under Genereral Staff, and the same with IAF, navy and Ground Forces Command, independently.

Corps should be under Ground Forces Command (except Intelligence Corps, Military Police, Education and Youth Corps, General Corps, Medical Corps, and of course, Sea Corps and Air force). But, divisions and brigades (except those of training, like 828 infantry, 460 armor) should be under corresponding regional command (except Homefront, of course).

It would be great if you can fix that, and then I'll tell you all the rest. There are many more little mistakes, like missing or split units, wrong names...

I thing the png should be removed untill it is OK... Flayer 14:01, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Look, I am in MAZI, I know the structure well, and I'm aware of the structural changes that took place, and those that did not yet took place. Your sources are totally wrong and major thing and in small details. Do you thing I'm telling this to just for fun? The graphics is great, but the structure is just totally wrong, no maters what those magazines write. Flayer 15:08, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

The structure is like here: [1]. When it is done, you can just put in the regular divisions under corresponding regional commands, brigades under divisions, training brigades under corresponding corps, and so on. And then it would be easy to fix the structure of each infantry brigade, the structure of its recon batalions (recon company, AT company, engineering company, sometimes communication company), structure of the armor brigades, independent units of certain divisions, under regional command level, SF units of the higher level, and so on. Flayer 11:32, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

The structure here (Israel Defense Forces#Military structure) is correct. Lets start from Northern Command: It has 36th "Gaash"/"Rage" armor division, 91st "Galil"/"Galilee" territiorial division, some reserve divisions, 605th "ha-Mahatz"/"The Crush" engineering battalion, "Shahaf"/"Seagull" field intelligence battalion, alpinist SF reserve unit, and probably some other units.36th "Gaash"/"Rage" armor division has 7th armor brigade "Saar me-Golan"/"Storm from Golan", 188th armor brigade "Barak"/"Lightning", 1st infantry brigade "Golani", artillery regiment "Golan" (not sure about the number), and some other units, including the "Golan" territorial brigade. 7th armor brigade has its Merkava mk 2 battalions (Later i can check the names the numbers), AT company, "sayeret 7" recon company, and and probably some other units. 188th armor brigade has its Merkava mk 3 battalions (Later i can check the names the numbers), AT company, "sayeret 188" reserve recon company, and and probably some other units. Infantry brigade "Golani" has its batallions (names & numbers - later), "Egos"/"Nut Tree" anti-guerilla SF battlion, special/recon battalion, signals company, and probably some other minor units. Special/recon battalion has recon ("sayeret") company, AT comapny, and engineering company (names & numbers - later). Artillery regiment "Golan" has its artillery battalions, one of them with MLRS (names & numbers - later). 91st "Galil"/"Galilee" territiorial division has two territiorial divisions 300th "Bar'am" and 169th "Hiram" - both are reserve infantry brigades, 299th "Herev"/"Sword" druze independent infantry battalion (arguably, it belongs directly to northern command or even directly to Infantry and Paratroopers Corps Command) which has a recon "sayeret" company (note that not every SF unit is a "sayeret", "sayeret" means recon unit, so only recon untis should be called "sayeret"), and and probably some other minor units.

Now, Central Command: it has 162th "Ha-Plada"/"The Steel" armor division, West bank territiorial division, some reserve divisions (including 98th "Ha-Esh"/"The Fire" paratroopers reserve division), 601st "Asaf" engineering battalion, "Nitzan"/"Bud" field intelligence battalion, and probably some other units. 162th "Ha-Plada"/"The Steel" armor division has 401st "I'kvot Ha-Barzel"/"Iron Trails" armor brigade, 933th Nahal infantry brigade, 900h "Kfir"/"Yong Lion" designated infantry brigade, 215th artillery regiment "Kala David"/Sling of David", and some other units, including the "Jordan Valley" territorial brigade (sometimes called "The Valley" brigade or "Arie"/"Lion" brigade) 401st armor brigade has its Merkava mk 4 battalions (names & numbers - later), AT company, "sayeret 188" recon company, and and probably some other units. "Nahal" has its batallions (names & numbers - later, one of them is paratroppers battalion), special/recon battalion, signals company, and probably some other minor units. Special/recon battalion has recon ("sayeret") company, AT comapny, and engineering company (names & numbers - later). "Kfir" has 6 designated infantry battalions permanently assigned mainly to West bank territiorial division (names, numbers, assignment order - later), and probably some other units. 215th artillery regiment has its artillery battalions(names & numbers - later). 98th "Ha-Esh"/"The Fire" paratroopers reserve division has 35th regular paratroppers brigade "Flying Serpent, some reserve paratroppers brigades: 226th "Ha-Nesher ha-Shahor"/"The Black Eagle", 551th "Hetzei Ha-Esh"/"Arrows of Fire", 623th "Hod Ha-Hanit"/"Head of the Spear", and some other units propably including "Maglan"/"Ibis" (arguably, it belongs directly to central command) SF unit (which is not "sayeret"), AA parachuting unit (arguably, inside "Maglan") and other. West bank territiorial division has 7 territorial brigades ("Yehuda", "Etzion", "Benyamin", "Shomron", "Ephraim", "Menashe", and "Maccabim") and the "Duvdevan"/"Cherry Tree" SF undercover srike unit (arguably, it belongs directly to central command), and some other units, including some MP units.

Sothern Command: it has 366th "Amud ha-Esh"/"Pillar of Fire" reserve armour division, 80th "Edom" territorial division, "Gaza" territirial division, some reserve divisions, 603th "Lahav"/"Blade" engineering battalion, "Nesher"/"Eagle" field intelligence battalion, 33th "Caracal" unisex independent light infantry battalion (arguably, it belongs directly to Infantry and Paratroopers Corps Command), 585th bedouin desert recon battalion (arguably, it belongs to any of the 2 territorial brigades or on the other hand directly to Infantry and Paratroopers Corps Command), and probably some other units, including a reserve Eilat area CT unit. 366th "Amud ha-Esh"/"Pillar of Fire" division has 84th "Giv'ati" infantry brigade, 460th "Bnei Or"/"Sons of Light" training armor brigade (arguably, it belongs directly to Armor Corps Command), artillery regiment "Amud ha-Esh"/"Pillar of Fire" (not sure about the number), and some other units. "Giv'ati" has its batallions (names & numbers - later), special/recon battalion, and probably some other minor units. Special/recon battalion has recon ("sayeret") company, AT comapny, engineering company and signals comapny (names & numbers - later). 460th training armor brigade has its training battalions (names & numbers - later). Artillery regiment has its artillery battalions (names & numbers - later). "Edom" territorial division has "Arava" territorial brigade, "Sagi" territorial brigade and other units. "Gaza" territorial division has "Northern Gaza" territorial brigade, "Sothern Gaza" territorial brigade and other units. "Rimon"/"Pomegranate" SF unit was disbanded decades ago. To be continued. Note that I do not expose any undisclosed inforamtion, and I don't know everything. Flayer 14:23, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Iraq

Take a look at this - http://billroggio.com/oob/index.php - for an OB source. Cheers Buckshot06 20:02, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

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IDF Northern Command.png

Great job! It would be great to merge all such png graphics into one complete graphic when everyhing is done. Minor things:

• Regular engineering battalions (like 605th) not long ago became formally under regional command level (on paper, taken out from the divisions). Can't comment this.
• I'll check later what can I say about Unit 427. Keep it there.
• There is no such armored recon battalion under any division.
• "Sayeret 7" is the one armored recon company of 7th brigde. It is not a SF unit, but an armor recon unit, though fairly capable of on foot operations. Same thing with 188th brigade, but "sayeret 188" is a reserve unit.
• Later I'll check the names of the battalions.
• There is nothing I can say about other units (8200, I-HAWK, target acquisition....)

Flayer 16:49, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Sayeret 95 Company of the Golani Brigade a reconnaissance unit. Generallly, the role of the reconnaissance units ("yehidat siur" = "YAHSAR" = "sayeret") in IDF is more then just reconnaissance. Such units usually are the prime units of its "mother units". It makes a confusion, 'casue some think that any prime unit or elite unit is a "sayeret" (=reconnaissance unit). Anyway, instead of YAHSAR Battalion we better write Reconnaissance Battalion, and instead of Sayeret ## Company (of Reconnaissance Battalion) we better write Reconnaissance Company. Later I'll get the names and the numbers of most infantry Reconnaissance Battalion and its companies. Aah, and I suggest removing training Btn from the structure. It is not excactly a battalion, rather a training facility... We better remove it. That's all about Northern Command, until I give you some names and numbers (and whatever I can say about unit 427). Flayer 20:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

::Great! "Special Troops Btn" is OK, though we better not call it (untill i find the real names) and its companies "Golani", like "Golani" AT Coy., "Golani" Recon Coy... It's enough one "Golani" inf. br. on top. Typo: name of the art.reg. is "Golan", not "Golani" once more.

• 7th brigade - correct names and numbers
  • 75th btn "Romach"/"Lance"
  • 77th btn "Oz"/"Courage"
  • 82th btn "Gaash"/"Rage"
• 188th brigade - correct names and numbers
  • 53th btn "Sufa"/"Storm"
  • 71th btn "Reshef"/"Spark"
  • 74th btn "Saar"/"Tempest" (just another word for storm)
• 1st brigade - correct names and numbers
  • 12th btn "Barak"
  • 13th btn "Gideon"
  • 51th btn "First Breachers"
  • 351th signal company.

Unable to verify names and nubers of the artillery rgt. Flayer 09:12, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

• I see 609th "Alexandroni" reserve infantry brigade also belongs to Gaash div. Flayer 09:26, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
• 2nd "Carmeli" reserve infantry brigade belongs to 91th ter. div.. Flayer 09:46, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
• Typo: "Hiram" is 769th brigade, not 169th. Flayer 17:05, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget the updates above, please. Flayer 16:33, 19 August 2007 (UTC) Can't see the updated file yet. Did you upload it? Flayer 16:41, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

IDF Central Command.png

• 401st Armor Brigade -> 401st Sayeret, sure.
• "Sayeret" Company of Nahal recon Btn. is a recon company, same like in Golani, Giv'ati, Paratroopers...
• As far as know, Maglan and YANMAM are under 98 Div. Maglan soldiers have the same shoulder tag like 98 Div logo. Maglan is not excactly an AT unit, rather SF destruction unit. Moran (possibly 8899) and Meitar (possibly 427) are much more in terms of AT units then Maglan. It is very complicated and mostly classified... In my opinion, it would be better to put both Moran and Meitar SF/AT units under Artillery Corps Command without any comments.

I'll check up later the MP units.

• structure of 35th brigade "Flying Sepent" (no such thing "tzanhanima"):
  • 101st btn "Cobra"
  • 202th btn "Viper"
  • 890th btn "Echis"
  • ### Recon btn "Serpent"
    • (possibly) 5173th recon company "Taipan"
    • #### AT company "Naja"
    • #### engineering company "Coluber"
  • #### signals company "Python" Correct: "Eryx" (Flayer 09:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC))
• structure of 933th brigade "Nahal":
  • 50th btn "Basalt"
  • 931th btn "Shaham"
  • 932th btn "Granite"
  • ### Recon btn "Topaz"
    • #### recon company "Flint"
    • #### AT company "Gazit"
    • #### engineering company "Sapphire"
    • #### signals company "Agate"
    • #### scouts & snipers company

Flayer 21:32, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

• It seems like signal company of Nahal is a part of the Special Troops Btn, unlike Golani. Verifying... NOT part of the btn. Flayer 09:49, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
• Globalsecurity maybe got it right, but it is still undisclosed info.
• YANMAM (unlike "Maglan") is an abbreviation. Capital letters would be better, I think.
• "Tzanchanim" is a hebrew word for paratroopers, but "tzanchanima" sounds like someone wants to fight with one of them. :-)
• "Sachlab" unit no longer exists, and it wasn't a SF battalion anyway. "Erez" and "Ta'oz" are in the right place.
• I try to verify the territorial assignment of the battalions of "Kfir". Good night! Flayer 23:21, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Another (the last) reserve paratroopers brigade of 98th div., is 646th "Shualey Merom"/"Sky Foxes" reserve paratroopers brigade. Flayer 09:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
"Jordan Valley" brigade has a number: 417th. Flayer 09:33, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
"Serpent" ST btn has a number: 5135. Flayer 09:44, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

401th armor brigade battalions:

• 9th "Eshet" btn
• 46th "Shelah" btn
• 52th "Ha-Bok'im"/"The Breachers" btn

Flayer 17:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

IDF - general

• I think, all of the regular and reserve infantry brigades, except Kfir, should be considered mechanized infantry. But all territorial brigades, except Bar'am and Hiram, should be considered general infantry by definition (brigades responsible for the security of a specific region, is permanently stationed in one place but the individual soldiers are periodically changed). Bar'am and Hiram would be reserve territorial (worth to update the file) mechanized infantry brigades, unlike "normal" reserve brigades, unlike "normal" territorial brigades. Nevertheless, Kfir also can oparate APC's and IFV's if necessary, Golani can also oparate M113 (not just "Achzarit") if necessary. I think, it would be better not to mention which APC's and IFV's they use - they may use any kind of APC's and IFV's that IDF has. Paratroopers may also make use of any APC's and IFV's, jeeps... anything IDF has, not just parachute behind enemy lines.
• Things you propably didn't notice: 212th artillery rgt of Northern Command called "Golan", not "Golani". Companies of the special troops btn of the "Golani" brigade, and the btn itself, aren't called "Golani". Maybe the don't have official names, maybe I just can't find it, but the only "Golani" thing is the brigade.
• Possibly tomorrow I'll go through Southern Command.png, homefront, corps commands, directorates and whatever remains.

Flayer 18:50, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Additional general info from official source:

• Every division and regional command has a logiscitcs rgt. Each logiscitcs rgt has:
  • Ammunition btn
  • Supply btn
  • Medical btn
  • ABC (NBC) comapny
  • MP company
  • (some irrelevant units)

Another info: each regular armor engineering btn (601th, 603th, 605th) has a heavy equipment company (with D9 armored bulldozers and other vehicles). Moreover, "Gaza" territorial division has its own heavy equipment company ("Abirey ha-Plada"/"Knights of Steel"). Same with West Bank territorial division ("Hatuley ha-Bar"/"Wild Cats" heavy equipment company). Flayer 15:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I got a mistake. Regular armor engineering btn (601th, 603th, 605th) still belong to regular armor divisions (correspondingly, 401th, 7th, 188th). But yet each regional command has a battalion-size engineering unit.

Special command teams of each regional command no longer exist. Flayer —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 16:40, August 20, 2007 (UTC).

IDF_Southern_Command.png

460th training armor brigade (arguably belongs to armor corps command)

• 195th "Adam" training btn with Merkava 2
• 198th "Ezuz" training btn with Merkava 3
• 532th "Shelah" training btn with Merkava 4
• 196th "Shahak" tank commanders training btn
• ###th "Adam" tank instructors training btn
• (460th brigade doesn't have a recon company)
  

Givati has a normal structure. some sources say its signal company is a part of special troops btn.

• 424th "Shaked"/"Almond" btn
• 432th "Tzabar"/"Cactus" btn
• 435th "Rotem"/"Furze" btn
• 846th "Shualey Shimshon"/"Samson's Foxes" special troops btn
  • ###th "Dikla"/"Palm" AT company
  • ###th "Dolev" engineering company
  • ###th "Shualey Shimshon"/"Samson's Foxes" recon company
• ###th "Maor" signal company

Flayer 14:40, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

IDF engineering

Brigades, I meant brigades...

Regional commands engineering units build fortifications, bunkers, outposts, pave roads, cooperate with civilian contractor that do the same... Flayer 20:47, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

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fr:Modèle:Images

Hello,

This template works along with a JavaScript function, which you can find at fr:MediaWiki:Common.js ♦ Pabix 05:52, 21 August 2007 (UTC)