Talk:High-definition television

European HDTV vs. North American HDTV

Is there any regional difference in the two region's HD signals as there is in SD NTSC vs. PAL? Or are HDTV sets simply global in standards? A 1080i-capable set in the USA could receive at 1080-i signal in Europe?

Europe still uses 25 and 50 frames per second, USA ~24, ~30 and ~60 fps.Totsugeki 06:55, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

This response doesn’t really answer the question posed. As there appears to be backward compatibility to earlier SD standards, the table of digital video resolutions for HDTV, implies that it will handle differing frame rates for both NTSC and PAL (24, 30, 60; 25, 50 progressive and 50, 60 interlaced). As manufacturers naturally seek significant economies of scale in production, is there any difference in the HDTV’s for sale in North America from those sold in Europe (apart from the tuners and power inputs, of course) So, if not, can a PAL sourced video or DVD be viewed on a North American purchased HGTV without any problems? 70.68.182.33 22:49, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

It's all a fuzzy headache. I don't believe that there is any requirement that 50 hz work in the US, or 60 Hz work in Europe. It's likely that many manufacturers will do this, but you won't be able to count on anything, and will probably have to dig deep into manuals to see who supports what. It's UNLIKELY that you will see CRT based sets supporting the "foreign" field rates, because they would have to build different hardware to deal with each frequency. That is probably a primary reason we never got an agreement on a worldwide standard. LCDs and DLPs can switch frequency much easier. Algr 04:25, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Veto

My 14 year old cheap TV supported Pal and NTSC. I was able to play on my Amiga Computer in both formats. AFAIR most cheap TVs from Asia did this, brand names did not. And also remember that PC-powersupply operates on various voltage- and frequencystandards. The OP is right with "economies of scale in production". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.188.77.233 (talk) 16:02, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

18 formats! So why do broadcasters ignore this and focus on two (720p60 and 1080i60)?

OK so maybe someone can explain to me why over the air broadcasters only broadcast 2 formats when their are 18 to choose from? Example: Cartoons and Film movies are both 24 fps so why when I watch the Simpsons on FOX do they transmit at 720p60 and I get interlace artifacts from the telecine? The same also goes for 1080i60. Why not just transmit at the native frame rate at with 1080p24? There is no equipment issue at the stations since this is all digital and the ATSC modulators doesn't care about the digital info they get as long as it isn't too much because the resolution and the frame rate are not integral to the ATSC modulator its just a bit stream. To convert everything to 1080i60 or 720p60 seams like allot of work and not necessary. If the flexibility was built into the system why ignore it on purpose and make things more complicated? Madzyzome 21:08, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Answer: because Most TV's dont natively display 1080p, only the newest, so 1080i is the most common set right now.

NO! That did not answer my question. Didn't you read it? Obviously not. Please don't respond anonymously with useless answers, it takes up valuable bytes on the wikipeda servers.Madzyzome 04:39, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Clarification to above: lesser displays (720p and 1080i) would display 1080p transmissions just fine, just downconverted (unless the television decoder is not compliant with ATSC). Totsugeki 06:57, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

"HDTV is the answer to a question few consumers were asking."

That's NPOV how? The "citation" for that sentiment is a blog.

It'd be at least somewhat valid to say "A survey of consumers show that initial consumer demand for HDTV was minimal." Or whatever source; followed with a citation, of course.

Archives

Talk Archive 1 (Fox HDTV program listing ... Ads on external links)

Talk Archive 2 (Resolutions diagram wrong? ... History of HDTV)

SHDTV?

Hi there. I'm the owner of http://www.HDTV-GURU.com. As the owner and as a person looking for new content about HDTV, I was wondering what you guys know about SHDTV, or super high definition television. It seems very exciting. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Moneer189 (talk • contribs) 16:20, 14 February 2007 (UTC-8)

There is already an article for 3840 x 2160 (2160p) and (7680 x 4320) (Ultra High Definition Video )Thewikipedian 12:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Broken Link

There is a reference to the "Canadian Digital Television Offical Website", the link is broken! The link points to cdtv.ca, which is a registered domain, but pages from this site are not currently resolving.Audley Lloyd 22:23, 17 March 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Audley Lloyd (talk • contribs) 21:20, 3 March 2007 (UTC).

Removed the "HDTV vs film" section

I looked at this section for a long time, realized it had to be completely rewritten, started to, and then realized that it just shouldn't be. It's wrong:
1. The big ongoing debate in the TV/film world is HD vs film, not HDTV. It's about should we shoot on HD or film, but it's obvious it will be broadcast on HDTV. And on the other end of the chain, nobody is wondering whether they should install a film projector in their living room or an HDTV set.
2. Even movie theaters are not considering HDTV vs. film, but higher-quality, higher-definition formats (see digital cinema).
3. From my mediocre wiki understanding, comparing X and Y is good, but "X vs Y" already sounds non-reference.
Binba 05:46, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Image choice

Why are there two very similar images of home cinema projection screens, and none of a standard high definition TV, when i'm sure the vast majority of HD TV viewers are only privy to the latter. Perhaps one of the images needs to be replaced? Yeanold Viskersenn 22:44, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Agree, one of them needs to be swapped for a display using some other technology. --Ray andrew 00:55, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Internet HDTV distribution

The text said: "In addition, 720p is used more often with Internet distribution of HD video". I see the oposite, all the HD videos I downloaded from the web are 1080i. see for example: www.mariposahd.tv .Vmsa 03:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Link

I suggest add http://videos.howstuffworks.com/hdtv-video.htm to the external links section. --HybridBoy 06:03, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

• Neutral: Seems to be somewhat useful, but the full-motion ad that takes up half the screen is kind of annoying, and may violate WP:EL's prohibition against links with objectionable amounts of advertising. Leuko 19:29, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Difference Interlaced / Progressive

The article incorrectly states Interlaced has a higher resolution and less frames than progressive. In fact it is the other way round 80.60.95.120 20:38, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

ahhhh.... please explain yourself. Are we supposed to take a statement signed by an IP address at face value? Pstanton 04:35, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

In other languages

since this article can't be edited, please change to [[pt:HDTV]] --UlissesCarvalho 13:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I have done that, ok. AxG ^{@ ►talk} 13:24, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Mandated by Law

The article 2000s in television currently says "2009 in television - ... All Analog TV signals in the United States are mandated by law to be shut off and switched to HDTV format." If this is true, how come it's not mentioned in this article? Seems of pivotal importance to HDTV in general to me.--190.39.214.44 15:29, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

There's no such law. The FCC couldn't care less what resolution you broadcast in. In February 2009, all channels will have by that point shut off their analogue (NTSC) broadcasts and be broadcasting solely in digital (ATSC). --69.123.165.15 02:50, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

There is too a law. "Congress passed a law on February 1, 2006, setting a final deadline for the DTV transition of February 17, 2009. Most television stations will continue broadcasting both analog and digital programming until February 17, 2009, when all analog broadcasting will stop. Analog TVs receiving over-the-air programming will still work after that date, but owners of these TVs will need to buy converter boxes to change digital broadcasts into analog format. Converter boxes will be available from consumer electronic products retailers at that time. Cable and satellite subscribers with analog TVs should contact their service providers about obtaining converter boxes for the DTV transition."http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html71.247.42.134 02:02, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The law is for converting from analog signals to digital signals not SD to HD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.50.115.210 (talk) 18:44, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

PAL resolution wrong

The diagram and text show PAL DV as being 768x576 pixels. This is incorrect. It is actually 720x576 pixels. The 768 figure is an equivalent in square pixels, to compensate for the non-square pixels. It may be using when creting graphics on a computer for PAL display, but the actual resolution is 720 pixels.

NTSC Frequency

The NTSC frequency is 59.94Hz, not 60Hz ! This applies both to SD and HD. Strange nobody pointed that out.

Technical Details: is this correct?

Need some citation on "MPEG-2 is more commonly used". I understand that the HDTV systems in place in North America are mostly MPEG-2 based. This is unlikely to change soon as so many people have expensive hardware that would be rendered useless with an MPEG-4 switch... I know I wouldn't be happy! However, aren't the HDTV systems elsewhere in the world almost exclusively MPEG-4? Perhaps some metric is required here, comparing the number of installed tuners or broadcast channels for each standard, rather than a blaze statement that one standard is more common than another with nothing to back it up?

Link to The High Definition Guide?

I'd suggest adding a link to http://www.thehighdefinitionguide.com. This site seems to answer a lot of questions about HD.

Explanations are in clear english and the inclusion of a FAQ and forum gives Wiki users who want to find out more a place to go...

HDTV Sources

I don't see the Windows PC as HDTV source? E.g. my LCD HDTV has VGA input, so I watched many HD movies I downloaded from the BitTorrent. BTW the page is uneditable for me. Maybe because my IP address is from Netherlands.

actual broadcast resolutions

The actual resolutions which HDTV is broadcast is actually a little lower. They broadcast a percentage less lines to save on expensive bandwidth and the image is merely scaled to fit your tv. It is still more lines than standard def, but the way this article reads you could be forgiven for thinking that the tv stations actually BROADCAST 720 lines JayKeaton 19:45, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Your mistaken, every line of 720p or 1080i is broadcast, perhaps you are thinking of overscan where your tv throws out some of the lines? --Ray andrew 00:00, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Check the official broadcast specifications instead of the numbers that are displayed on the television when it tunes into HDTV JayKeaton 07:34, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Give me a link to any specification that says otherwise. Again I believe you are mistaken. --Ray andrew 13:28, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't have a "link" to anything, but if you like I can email you a scan of a report from the hi def summit earlier this year. Also if you look at the specs of the equiptment major tv stations in the US use to broadcast you will see the same thing. The companies that make the broadcasting stuff can be found online. JayKeaton 17:18, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Apparent bias in Advantages/Disadvantages

Why are there negative attributes listed in the "Advantages" section? I am disputing the neutrality of this article. --algocu 20:17, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• I wouldn't call that bias, so much as disorganized writing. I never did like that "non-engineering terms" section. The best way to organize a wiki article IMHO is to have things in simple terms at the top, and then go into more technical detail further in. Algr 06:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The Disadvantages section, otoh, contains arguments which are not specific to HDTV, like the 16:9 format problems which are the same for e.g. WidePAL. Further, after studying the situation for quite a while, one big disadvantage is missing from this section, i.e. the lack of recordability on external media. To the contrary, the article goes on by stating that HDTV can be recorded on D-VHS and W-VHS. W-VHS is gone. D-VHS recorders have only input terminals (composite) which are incompatible with the output terminals on HDTV players or satellite receivers (HDMI). So, I assume this to be a real and significant disadvantage. Another disadvantage not mentioned in this section is that most known HDTV displays are only able to produce a good image when using HDTV signals. As long as there is still also PAL/NTSC to be displayed, these displays show problems in converting the SDTV signals into an acceptable image at the native resolution of the display. The only exceptions are CRT beamers and HD-Trinitron TV-sets from Sony which do not have fixed native resolutions. Thyl Engelhardt 213.70.217.172 14:14, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

4:3 image on 16:9

Who the heck wrote this?

Older films and programming that retain their 4:3 ratio display will be presented in a version of letterbox commonly called "pillar box," displaying bars on the right and left of 16:9 sets (rendering the term "fullscreen" a misnomer). While this is an advantage when it comes to playing 16:9 movies, it creates the same disadvantage when playing 4:3 television shows that standard televisions have playing 16:9 movies. A way to address this is to stretch the 4:3 image horizontally to fill the screen or reframe its material to 14:9 aspect ratio, either during preproduction or manually in the TV set.

This is bollocks. Why would anyone want to stretch a 4:3 image? Do people actually like things to look distorted? And "reframe" the material? In other words, chop off the top and bottom to fit 16:9? Why? Why is a 4:3 image on a 16:9 screen a "disadvantage"? A 16:9 screen size is meant to have flexibility, so that you can exhibit many different aspect ratios, such as widescreen 2.35:1, 1.66:1, and yes, 1.33:1, or 4:3. So what if there are pillars on the sides? If the Simpsons is 4:3, it should be viewed in 4:3.

The above section, taken from "Advantages of HD", is ignorant and certainly not neutral. Sladek 16:16, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I removed the whole paragraph. To me, it looked like an argument against, not for, HD. The topic of 4:3 material displayed on 16:9 screen is already covered under the heading of "Disadvantages..." Binksternet 17:33, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

My point is not that a 4:3 image on 16:9 having unused screen on the sides is inherently a disadvantage. Again, why is it a disadvantage? This is subjective.

Many consumers aren't satisfied with this unused display area and choose instead to distort their standard definition shows by stretching them horizontally to fill the screen, giving everything a too-wide or not-tall-enough appearance. Alternately, they'll choose to zoom the image which removes content that was on the top and bottom of the original TV show.

What is the consumer obsession with filling the screen, to the detriment of the image? There are many, many things that do not have 16:9 aspect ratio, and there are many people that see no problem whatsoever with "unused display area".

Sladek 14:55, 18 October 2007 (UTC)